MVC in NYC.....Next Month! [The Strand Hotel]

[MichaelColey]

When I have potential trips to NYC (mostly for conventions), the hotel prices usually make it more expensive than I want to pay. Even using hotel points is expensive (if you value your points properly). If I can't get in a timeshare (which is cheaper and more spacious), I usually don't go.

I think that's why I love conventions in Vegas. I'm on my way to one right now. $118 airfare. $90 rental car. About $400 for a timeshare, which I'm splitting with a business associate.

 

[Werner Weiss]

I think instead they will have these units available through Explorer or exchange where perhaps they have other ways to monetize the units to pay the hotel owners.

The press release in PR Newswire provides the only clues so far:

Marriott Vacations Worldwide anticipates that it will rebrand The Strand as a Marriott Vacation Club in early March 2016 and will begin welcoming Marriott Vacation Club Owners. Reservations for Owner usage through the Marriott Vacation Club exchange program will be offered as early as mid-February 2016 for arrivals beginning in early March 2016. In addition, the company plans to open its new Manhattan sales location by the middle of 2016.​

The wording suggests that the whole hotel will switch over to the Marriott Vacation Club brand (unlike the Mayflower, which has only one floor branded as Marriott Vacation Club).

Marriott Vacation Club uses Marriott.com to monetize inventory that's not committed to timeshare owners. I expect The Strand NYC (or whatever it's renamed to) to show up in Marriott.com.

Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC) did not disclose details of the financial agreement with the current owners. Presumably, VAC can be creative in balancing inventory, as long as they meet their financial obligations to the owners. For example, VAC might be able make much of the inventory at The Strand Hotel NYC available for points by monetizing corresponding Trust inventory elsewhere through Marriott.com.

I doubt we'll see the The Strand Hotel NYC in the Explorer Collection. My guess is that DC points stays will be booked like other Marriott Vacation Club properties. The per-night DC point costs are likely to be in the same ballpark as the regular rooms at the MVC at the Mayflower, not at the much higher per-night DC point costs typical of the Explorer Collection options in major cities.

 

[dansimms]

Wouldn't it be nice

Wouldn't it be nice if the DPs required are reasonable and put a little pressure on the Explorer NYC Hotels to finally get a little more realistic?

 

[Xpat]

When I have potential trips to NYC (mostly for conventions), the hotel prices usually make it more expensive than I want to pay. Even using hotel points is expensive (if you value your points properly). If I can't get in a timeshare (which is cheaper and more spacious), I usually don't go.

I think that's why I love conventions in Vegas. I'm on my way to one right now. $118 airfare. $90 rental car. About $400 for a timeshare, which I'm splitting with a business associate.

Completely agree. Timeshare point systems are great value for business travel in cities like NYC, Boston or San Francisco, where a hotel room on a weekday will often cost double the weekend rate. Timeshare point charts discourage weekend travel and make midweek travel a bargain in big cities.

 

[dioxide45]

The press release in PR Newswire provides the only clues so far:

Marriott Vacations Worldwide anticipates that it will rebrand The Strand as a Marriott Vacation Club in early March 2016 and will begin welcoming Marriott Vacation Club Owners. Reservations for Owner usage through the Marriott Vacation Club exchange program will be offered as early as mid-February 2016 for arrivals beginning in early March 2016. In addition, the company plans to open its new Manhattan sales location by the middle of 2016.​

The wording suggests that the whole hotel will switch over to the Marriott Vacation Club brand (unlike the Mayflower, which has only one floor branded as Marriott Vacation Club).

Marriott Vacation Club uses Marriott.com to monetize inventory that's not committed to timeshare owners. I expect The Strand NYC (or whatever it's renamed to) to show up in Marriott.com.

Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC) did not disclose details of the financial agreement with the current owners. Presumably, VAC can be creative in balancing inventory, as long as they meet their financial obligations to the owners. For example, VAC might be able make much of the inventory at The Strand Hotel NYC available for points by monetizing corresponding Trust inventory elsewhere through Marriott.com.

I doubt we'll see the The Strand Hotel NYC in the Explorer Collection. My guess is that DC points stays will be booked like other Marriott Vacation Club properties. The per-night DC point costs are likely to be in the same ballpark as the regular rooms at the MVC at the Mayflower, not at the much higher per-night DC point costs typical of the Explorer Collection options in major cities.

That makes sense and it not makes sense that they wouldn't offer this property up in the Explorer Collection. It seems that MVW will have to be willing to take at least some financial hit for every week that it offers up for DC points. By depositing them in the exchange company, it might make it more challenging to monetize the units other than to use currently monetized inventory to pay the property owners. I am sure they have it figured out or will have it figured out before they start making these units available.

I do think it is a good addition to the portfolio. I am glad that those that have longed for these urban options will now have the opportunity. You may just never see me at one.

I think the points requirements here will be more in line with The Mayflower with perhaps a slight hike in the amount of points needed. I would expect them to drop some of the Explorer Collection options in New York City once this property opens up for DC points stays. I think the Explorer Collection options are more just there to fill the void where the timeshare property portfolio is lacking.

 

[Werner Weiss]

By depositing them in the exchange company, it might make it more challenging to monetize the units other than to use currently monetized inventory to pay the property owners. I am sure they have it figured out or will have it figured out before they start making these units available.

Exactly! Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC) has all sorts of ways to move inventory around legitimately — involving Trust inventory, the DC program's own exchange pool (including weeks inventory where owners have elected points), Marriott inventory in Interval International, and inventory monetized through Marriott.com (to pay the providers of Explorer Collection options). It seems to me that VAC is doing a good job.

I do think it is a good addition to the portfolio. I am glad that those that have longed for these urban options will now have the opportunity. You may just never see me at one.

The key word is "options."

I'll never book an MVC ski resort in the winter, but I'm well aware that there are others for whom those are the best options in the whole MVC portfolio.

I've enjoyed our urban stays at the Custom House in Boston and the Ritz Carlton Residence Club in San Francisco. I already have reservations for the MVC at the Mayflower, and I hope to stay at the new NYC option this year (although I wish the property included suites with kitchenettes). I hope MVC creatively revamps the all-suite San Diego property before it opens as an MVC; it's on my list of places I want to stay. I wish MVC had an option in Paris, not just Marriott's Village d'lle-de-France way out by Disneyland Paris.

 

[jimf41]

I wish MVC had an option in Paris, not just Marriott's Village d'lle-de-France way out by Disneyland Paris.

I think Paris and Rome are on the top of everyone's wish list.

 

[answeeney]

On one level this is good news - it adds options and how is that bad?

However, on another level I’m thinking that the timeshare spin-off has lost the plot. It is as if Mr Marriott’s favourite son was given a timeshare business and decided to use the opportunity to create a hotel business that will prove that he is better than his dad. Why would I buy into a timeshare to stay in city hotels? Yes, as a last resort it is a way of using points that might otherwise be wasted, so, as per my first point, it is an option, so hurrah.

If I visit a city then a hotel room is a crash pad. I like it to be nice and comfortable but I do not want or expect a home from home. I do, however, expect a home from home with timeshares. The fact that the last three exciting new Marriott timeshare developments have been converted city hotels makes me think that I need to head for the exit. Even more so that there seems to be no evidence that Marriott have any new European developments even on the radar (and if Marriott junior is reading please do not try to temp me with a London option as I already have plenty of options there).

Please let us have some new proper resorts – new beachside or quaint town/village locations with plenty of inside and outside space, pools, pool bars, sunbeds and sun.

 

[JIMinNC]

I am with NYFLTRAVELER, this doesn't excite me much other than it is another property that I can add to the Marriott II Unit Codes list if they get deposited there. I want multiple bedroom units where we can take family along. Bahama, Cancun and other Carribbean islands are places I would rather see them build out properties. I think the problem is that they need to start from the ground up where in places like NY they can buy a property and convert hotel rooms. It gives them a less capital intensive method to add points to the MVC Trust. Unfortunately I think this will be an ongoing trend. But what other US cities could they really consider now outside of Chicago and Miami? Which we now know that Miami is a dead deal.

Why would I buy into a timeshare to stay in city hotels? Yes, as a last resort it is a way of using points that might otherwise be wasted, so, as per my first point, it is an option, so hurrah.

If I visit a city then a hotel room is a crash pad. I like it to be nice and comfortable but I do not want or expect a home from home. I do, however, expect a home from home with timeshares. The fact that the last three exciting new Marriott timeshare developments have been converted city hotels makes me think that I need to head for the exit. Even more so that there seems to be no evidence that Marriott have any new European developments even on the radar (and if Marriott junior is reading please do not try to temp me with a London option as I already have plenty of options there).

Please let us have some new proper resorts – new beachside or quaint town/village locations with plenty of inside and outside space, pools, pool bars, sunbeds and sun.

I think Marriott recognizes that to continue to grow the market for their products they have to expand the breadth of their offerings. While I agree that families with small kids will continue to prefer the resort-type locations for family vacations, Millennials with no kids are very urban-oriented these days - seemingly much more so than my generation. My teen and 20-something kids really dislike timeshare vacations. They say that timeshares are all "old folks and little kids." I think the Millennials will prefer options in big cities with action and nightlife.

And even though my wife and I have enjoyed - and will continue to enjoy - the resort locations, I can also say that I am very excited to see some "alternative" locations developed by Marriott Vacations Worldwide in places like Washington, DC and NYC. These will be very appealing to us in our approaching empty nest years for 3-4 day Points trips. Not every vacation needs to be beach and pool-based.

In addition to Washington and New York, I would love to see urban MVC locations in San Francisco (I know Ritz has a place there, but something that would be more accessible to regular DC Points reservations), Seattle, London, Paris city, Rome, and maybe other city locations in Europe. In fact, I think this would be the most logical and differentiating way that Marriott could expand their international network. Most timeshares in Europe are in the countryside or in resort areas where Europeans go on vacation. But Americans tend to gravitate more to the tourist sights in the cities of Europe, and Americans make up the largest chunk of MVC owners. So I think expanding in European cities would be a great way for Marriott to add value to their product versus the competition.

 

[dansimms]

Penalty Box Points

Does anyone know, if you have a cancellation and then those points can only be used within 60 days of travel, if those are disqualified for the under 59 day reservation discount that we get as Chairmans Level? I would think that no discount could be applied to them. If the discount did still apply, a good strategy would be to use them at a MVCI resort you can drive to, and for me that would be this New York City property.

 

[dioxide45]

Does anyone know, if you have a cancellation and then those points can only be used within 60 days of travel, if those are disqualified for the under 59 day reservation discount that we get as Chairmans Level? I would think that no discount could be applied to them. If the discount did still apply, a good strategy would be to use them at a MVCI resort you can drive to, and for me that would be this New York City property.

I don't think reservations made with Holding Account points are disqualified from the discounts that higher level owners get with reservations made inside of 60 days.

 

[dansimms]

That would a great wrinkle to exploit

If still eligible for the reduction, we could shop for a better <59 booking point rate on every trip, all the way up to departing, knowing that we could do a flexible and inexpensive trip into NYC in all likelihood! I am hoping that with the <59 day rate that we can get our actual cost down to about 400 DPs for their rooms that sleep 2 to 4, in whatever low season that they create. Usage is expected for March now, so the point chart should be made available in a matter of a few more weeks. The Agent I spoke to at MVCI agreed that the existence of this property could only help the redemption rates for the NYC Explorer Marriott Hotels. They had no incentive to compete before this, and as a result, IMO the stated deals were all non-competitive and not even worth considering at any time. Time will tell. We have stayed at The Carlton, a first rate property, but can't justify the ski high cost using points......and that was the best of these bad deals in NYC. So, in the above example, I end up paying about the equivalent of about $200 for a beautiful room in the heart of NYC, and may have saved that same $200 or more on my other beach or ski vacation, by exploiting the <59 day DP rate! Working the system!

 

[dioxide45]

If still eligible for the reduction, we could shop for a better <59 booking point rate on every trip, all the way up to departing, knowing that we could do a flexible and inexpensive trip into NYC in all likelihood! I am hoping that with the <59 day rate that we can get our actual cost down to about 400 DPs for their rooms that sleep 2 to 4, in whatever low season that they create. Usage is expected for March now, so the point chart should be made available in a matter of a few more weeks. The Agent I spoke to at MVCI agreed that the existence of this property could only help the redemption rates for the NYC Explorer Marriott Hotels. They had no incentive to compete before this, and as a result, IMO the stated deals were all non-competitive and not even worth considering at any time. Time will tell. We have stayed at The Carlton, a first rate property, but can't justify the ski high cost using points......and that was the best of these bad deals in NYC.

I don't think that the hotels really use the redemption rates as a way to compete against regular point stays. I also don't think adding this option will bring down Explorer Collection DC point values.

I think Explorer Rates are calculated on a comparison to cash based stays. MVCI has determined a value to each point, they then use that to determine how much an Explorer Collection should cost. So if MVCI values each point at $0.40 per point and a night at the hotel in the collection costs $400, then they would value that night at 1,000 DC points. The hotels and MVCI have negotiated a specific price that MVCI will pay when an owner wants to stay at the hotel, they then use that cost to determine the points needed per night.

Since hotels are also selling rooms at cash based stays and possibly filling rooms, I see no reason that they would reduce the cost per night for DC points because they would essentially be taking in less cash when MVCI pays them for the night.

 

[dioxide45]

So does this announcement prove that the Refinery rumor was just a rumor?

 

[Fasttr]

I think Explorer Rates are calculated on a comparison to cash based stays. MVCI has determined a value to each point, they then use that to determine how much an Explorer Collection should cost. So if MVCI values each point at $0.40 per point and a night at the hotel in the collection costs $400, then they would value that night at 1,000 DC points. The hotels and MVCI have negotiated a specific price that MVCI will pay when an owner wants to stay at the hotel, they then use that cost to determine the points needed per night.

I agree, and as for what the cost of the travel insurance shows us ($169 or 700 DC points) that value can be as low as $0.24 per point. Makes for some lopsided conversions when we are valuing them at approx. twice that (using cost to rent the points as a basis for that valuation).

 

[Fasttr]

So does this announcement prove that the Refinery rumor was just a rumor?

Was likely more than just a rumor. More likely just another failed attempt to purchase a hotel in NYC (or at least a portion thereof) as it seems like they have been trying to find a deal in NYC for quite awhile, but seemingly found it challenging to find an acceptable hotel with owners willing to sell inventory to MVC over an extended period of time like appears to be the case with The Strand.

 

[puckmanfl]

good afternoon

currently rates at this property are $250-$300 for the standard room. At $0.48MF/pt of Trust points... it would have to be between 550-600 pts/night just to make it EVEN with cash...

remember that is not an elegant Times Square or Central Park facility. Marriott has a few courtyards in the area that can be had for probably cheaper...

I still vote residence inn at Bryant Park with the kitchen!!!

sorry to be a hogwart.. but this just doesn't excite me!!!

 

[dioxide45]

Was likely more than just a rumor. More likely just another failed attempt to purchase a hotel in NYC (or at least a portion thereof) as it seems like they have been trying to find a deal in NYC for quite awhile, but seemingly found it challenging to find an acceptable hotel with owners willing to sell inventory to MVC over an extended period of time like appears to be the case with The Strand.

I guess it confirms that New York wasn't a rumor, but was MVW actually considering and in negation with The Refinery and perhaps far enough in to result in the website blunder?

 

[Werner Weiss]

So does this announcement prove that the Refinery rumor was just a rumor?

That was a strange one. The Refinery Hotel New York showed up on Marriott.com a couple of years ago with a Marriott Vacation Club logo and generic "photos" for a few days, before disappearing forever. There was never a press release or any news to investors.

When the Refinery Hotel first appeared on Marriott.com, it seemed legitimate, but incomplete. It seemed as if someone who maintains Marriott.com content accidentally jumped the gun. After all, we have all been told at one time or another to expect a New York City MVC.

After it disappeared and never returned, it seemed as if it was never legitimate. Possibly, someone was doing an training exercise to learn how to do a hotel conversion and accidentally published the exercise as live content.

In any case, I would call it a mistake, not a rumor.

Since that time, there have always been official announcements before any new MVC locations were added to Marriott.com.

 

[Werner Weiss]

sorry to be a hogwart.. but this just doesn't excite me!!!

I'll wait until I see the actual chart before I decide if hotel that's now the The Strand Hotel NYC is a good or bad use of my Marriott Vacation Club points.

The only clue now is the chart for the MVC at Mayflower Washington DC. Regular rooms for Sunday through Thursday night are as little as 200 points per night (with higher rates during busier seasons). Yes, New York and Washington are different hotel markets. And there's a difference between a floor in a high-end hotel and an entire hotel where rooms are as small as 200 square feet. And there are undoubtedly differences in the cost structure for Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC).

The folks who run VAC apparently feel they have a compelling business case that will make money for VAC and will satisfy MVC members who want to stay in New York City.

 

[suzannesimon]

I believe these hotel purchases are a way for MVW to quickly get more properties into the Trust. There is a lot of Facebook complaining by owners that they can't find any reservations with their Trust points. They are feeling like they have been scammed and are complaining bitterly and publicly. It also will give Marriott more points to sell with minimal hassle - no new construction which takes years and minimal renovation costs.

I agree with others here who didn't buy timeshares for a hotel room. I'd never give up a timeshare week for points to spend a weekend in NY or DC. I'd just rent a hotel room. I also agree that it is a nice option for those who would convert for an urban location. I'm afraid though that we will never see another real resort from Marriott, but they definitely need them. They only had mud weeks in the older resorts to put in the Trust and they really need comparable options for owners who bought believing they could get that big unit in Aruba or Hilton Head easily.

 

[billymach4]

Google Street View of the Strand

Front Entrance.


https://www.google.com/maps/@40.751...06&yaw=342.82571&pitch=0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

 

[billymach4]

In keeping with Marriot tradition there is a Springhill Suites, and a Fairfield next door.

This location is OK. It is in the Garment district. Midtown location. Well within walking distance to Times Square, Broadway Theaters, Rockefeller Center, Bryant Park.

Would I ever stay there. No I live here, and sometimes I tend to work in the area.

Would I visit if I was a tourist. Yes.

 

[SueDonJ]

That was a strange one. The Refinery Hotel New York showed up on Marriott.com a couple of years ago with a Marriott Vacation Club logo and generic "photos" for a few days, before disappearing forever. There was never a press release or any news to investors.

When the Refinery Hotel first appeared on Marriott.com, it seemed legitimate, but incomplete. It seemed as if someone who maintains Marriott.com content accidentally jumped the gun. After all, we have all been told at one time or another to expect a New York City MVC.

After it disappeared and never returned, it seemed as if it was never legitimate. Possibly, someone was doing an training exercise to learn how to do a hotel conversion and accidentally published the exercise as live content.

In any case, I would call it a mistake, not a rumor.

Since that time, there have always been official announcements before any new MVC locations were added to Marriott.com.

I think there was very serious consideration given to The Refinery, that it got through at least enough preliminary hurdles to have made it on the list of properties worth sinking money into due diligence (as opposed to a list of properties mentioned as idle speculation.) It wasn't a mistake for MVW to be considering it, but the boilerplate webpage that was released was definitely a mistake as were the emails that were released by an MVC rep to addressees outside the company.

 

[SueDonJ]

I believe these hotel purchases are a way for MVW to quickly get more properties into the Trust. There is a lot of Facebook complaining by owners that they can't find any reservations with their Trust points. They are feeling like they have been scammed and are complaining bitterly and publicly. It also will give Marriott more points to sell with minimal hassle - no new construction which takes years and minimal renovation costs.

I agree with others here who didn't buy timeshares for a hotel room. I'd never give up a timeshare week for points to spend a weekend in NY or DC. I'd just rent a hotel room. I also agree that it is a nice option for those who would convert for an urban location. I'm afraid though that we will never see another real resort from Marriott, but they definitely need them. They only had mud weeks in the older resorts to put in the Trust and they really need comparable options for owners who bought believing they could get that big unit in Aruba or Hilton Head easily.

It's not true that the DC Trust was originally populated with only "mud weeks" although that notion persists on TUG and elsewhere. And it's certainly not true that since the DC inception the only intervals that have been added to the Trust are "mud weeks." Take a look at the Recorded Trust Documents ongoing thread (thank you again, Dioxide!) and you can see that many, many high-demand intervals have been and continue to be conveyed to the Trust. All of the existing resort build-outs have been conveyed as these hotel acquisitions will be, along with inventory that MVW ROFR's and buys back.

The fact is it's not as difficult as some would have us believe to book the "big units" through the DC, either through the Trust or the Exchange Company. Availability is definitely an issue and it's important to know and use the specific Reservation Window openings, but the DC isn't a failure or an indication that MVW isn't providing a good product.

I agree with you that it will be a long time if ever before we see MVW invest in a from-the-ground-up development of a typical MVCI resort but why would they? There came a time when they had to completely revamp their product because that model wasn't sustainable - and the result is the Destination Club which was years in the making. I hope they don't revert to their old ways, prefer that they're forward-looking and concerned with longterm success!