[ MERGED ] Michigan family jailed in Mexico over timeshare dispute

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Actually, this scenario has us looking at the resorts because of the people deciding not to go out of concerns for the jailed couple. It would be nice to go to the pool anytime we wanted and not find all of the chairs toweled, lol.

Bill

Especially those folks who grab a palapa at the beach AND a couple of loungers and an Umbrella at the pool at 8:15 - using the towels they kept from yesterday
They should be Jailed!
LOL

In a factual note @easyrider - I would book Mexico as early as you can. I am hearing that some snowbird Canadians are planning to relocate to Mexico beaches
for winter 2026.

 

[joestein]

If you pay your bills and don't try to get out of payments that you legally signed up for, there is no problem visiting and enjoying Mexico and its wonderful resorts. If you try to game the system and then go online to encourage others to do the same, then you probably should not visit Mexico or do so at your own peril.

TUG is based upon people from particular timeshare systems getting together to share knowledge, including how to game the system. There is nothing illegal about that. The TS companies don't like it, but it is not illegal.

I would exchange into a Mexican Resort or purchase a stay, but I would never buy a mexican TS or vacation club interest.

 

[joestein]

This is correct. Although their laws still allow for mandatory pre-trial detention for certain crimes. One thing that was added recently which maybe related to the this issue has to do with fraud.
Unfortunately, the laws are not very clear and many entities have claimed the pre-trial detention system have been abused. There are people being incarcerated for longer than 6 months without a trial.
I don't know who is at fault here or if any dispute here rises to the level of criminal fraud. I still maintain the 6 month detention while a private company is allowed to "gather evidence" as reported is extreme and very much favors the accuser. What are the repercussions to the accuser if they are unable to find this evidence they are trying to gather? If the evidence wasn't that strong already to proceed to trial, why was a warrant issued.

Becauase Mexico is incredibly corrupt. Most likely Palace resorts has a few judges in their pocket. However, I bet something will happen because of all the news stories.

Bought Judges don't like the spotlight.

 

[easyrider]

Especially those folks who grab a palapa at the beach AND a couple of loungers and an Umbrella at the pool at 8:15 - using the towels they kept from yesterday
They should be Jailed!
LOL

In a factual note @easyrider - I would book Mexico as early as you can. I am hearing that some snowbird Canadians are planning to relocate to Mexico beaches
for winter 2026.

I book our Mexico trips out a year out so we are good for 26. Thanks for the heads up though. I might have to get a maple leaf or Canuks t shirt to fit in while visiting Canada's Southern Province called Mexico, lol.

Bill

 

[rpennisi]

TUG is based upon people from particular timeshare systems getting together to share knowledge, including how to game the system. There is nothing illegal about that. The TS companies don't like it, but it is not illegal.

I would exchange into a Mexican Resort or purchase a stay, but I would never buy a mexican TS or vacation club interest.

I don't consider sharing knowledge on TUG gaming the system. I was (and I'm sure you know this) referring to what this thread currently is about as gaming the system and going online to brag and coach others to do it.

 

[rpennisi]

I book our Mexico trips out a year out so we are good for 26. Thanks for the heads up though. I might have to get a maple leaf or Canuks t shirt to fit in while visiting Canada's Southern Province called Mexico, lol.

Bill

I have to wait until July 1 to book January. That's my 6 month window for Vidanta.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Becauase Mexico is incredibly corrupt. Most likely Palace resorts has a few judges in their pocket. ......

Sounds like New Jersey to me
LOL

 

[Snazzylass]

I just can't get over the amount of $$. That will be their undoing beyond getting out of jail. And, since they have no ties to the community or MX and are not citizens, it makes sense the judge would not grant bail. Clearly they are a flight risk.

Their attorney citing the First Amendment in the video in the link above? Doh! Apparently a man with a law degree and a license to practice doesn't understand the constitution, or libel. Not uncommon for corporations to be super protective of their image. Yes, companies have been known to go after people besmirching their reputation.

An engineer with the MI State Police? He might make $250k? $300? It still seems like a lot for her to fly down there, etc. "It is possible the IRS may want to talk to them too." yeah, perhaps she an LLC or something and this is all on the up and up? Doubtful.

It's unfortunate with all the daughter has gone through that she being caught in this mess. I want to thank the dad for his service as he is a Veteran, but that doesn't give him a pass on this mess. This Lady is a salesperson extraordinaire. It's likely AMEX made a mistake by allowing the chargebacks. Oh, doubtful they will admit it, but someone's probably already been fired. When things mess up this bad, there's usually fault to go all the way around - the T/S, the customer, everybody.

 

[jbman]

For those nervous about going to Mexico, you may want to cross the Dominican Republic off your list as well:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hami...ett-drug-charges-dominican-republic-1.7498153

 

[jp10558]

TUG is based upon people from particular timeshare systems getting together to share knowledge, including how to game the system. There is nothing illegal about that. The TS companies don't like it, but it is not illegal.

I'm not sure I like using the term "game the system". That would imply to me doing something very much against the spirit of the system through a loophole. Both this case and TUG in general are more like "min/maxing" in an RPG - fully using the system, but perhaps better than "the average person". This specific case feels just like an all you can eat buffet getting butthurt because someone keeps coming back and can eat A LOT. The person isn't "cheating you", or "gaming the system", they're just using the system.

I can't even see the family here as using a loophole - unless you would also count credit card hotel points a "loophole". It was literally a very simple, well understood system. Every 2 stays by outside new people / non-owners you rent out you get 1 stay for free for you. This isn't even complicated. It's like a buy 2 get 1 free sale for goodness sake.

I don't even think that was anywhere near as unintuitive as many TUG examples. (lock-off / OGS / II stuff, RCI points with discounted stays, etc).

 

[WorldT]

I'm not sure I like using the term "game the system". That would imply to me doing something very much against the spirit of the system through a loophole. Both this case and TUG in general are more like "min/maxing" in an RPG - fully using the system, but perhaps better than "the average person". This specific case feels just like an all you can eat buffet getting butthurt because someone keeps coming back and can eat A LOT. The person isn't "cheating you", or "gaming the system", they're just using the system.

I can't even see the family here as using a loophole - unless you would also count credit card hotel points a "loophole". It was literally a very simple, well understood system. Every 2 stays by outside new people / non-owners you rent out you get 1 stay for free for you. This isn't even complicated. It's like a buy 2 get 1 free sale for goodness sake.

I don't even think that was anywhere near as unintuitive as many TUG examples. (lock-off / OGS / II stuff, RCI points with discounted stays, etc).

This got me thinking, there are a couple of ads on eBay for people who say you get to use their name/status at a resort. Sometimes, the ads on eBay are very cheap but there is an additional payment to the resort directly (AI or resort fee).
Never bought any but I am beginning to think this might be something similar or not.

 

[jp10558]

For those nervous about going to Mexico, you may want to cross the Dominican Republic off your list as well:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hami...ett-drug-charges-dominican-republic-1.7498153

I may have to also - this one is even worse - "the name is similar" on the checked baggage tags? Maybe Canada isn't as strict as the US airports now, but if your name doesn't match your passport, the bag doesn't get checked or get a tag. No way could I somehow check a bag and get a printed tag with a different character on it from my ID, forget about missing an initial and a letter of the first name. Plus, it should be pretty quick and simple to check with the airline about how many bags were checked by the passenger.

 

[skb0975]

It was from a thread but all of the posts on that thread, including mine, are speculative. To be charged with fraud means there was a crime involved in the breach of contract. For a breach of contract to become a crime it would include an intent to deceive or actual theft.

An example might be going to a Mexican presentation, signing the contract to receive extra perks not included in the perks for attending the presentation but were perks added because of the sale, with the intention of canceling and using the added perks. The proof might be a post on social media suggesting the buyer wasn't going to buy anything. This could be considered fraud.

Bil

I thought I saw a thread on this already, but I can't find it. If there is one, point me to it.

I guess we should stop telling people there are no repercussions to skipping out on their Mexican timeshare?

'Americans being held hostage'; Daughter decries Michigan parents jailed in Mexico

It has been an international nightmare for two American citizens who are stuck in a Mexican jail for a dispute over a time-share for 21 days.

www.fox2detroit.com

Why would you try to return to Mexico after you defrauded the hotel like that? It seems like a pretty straightforward fraud to me. I agree that they should not sit in jail for six months. Work out a deal with the embassy to pay something and agree never to return to Mexico and don't commit international fraud.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I just can't get over the amount of $$. That will be their undoing beyond getting out of jail. And, since they have no ties to the community or MX and are not citizens, it makes sense the judge would not grant bail. Clearly they are a flight risk.

Their attorney citing the First Amendment in the video in the link above? Doh! Apparently a man with a law degree and a license to practice doesn't understand the constitution, or libel. Not uncommon for corporations to be super protective of their image. Yes, companies have been known to go after people besmirching their reputation.

An engineer with the MI State Police? He might make $250k? $300? It still seems like a lot for her to fly down there, etc. "It is possible the IRS may want to talk to them too." yeah, perhaps she an LLC or something and this is all on the up and up? Doubtful.

It's unfortunate with all the daughter has gone through that she being caught in this mess. I want to thank the dad for his service as he is a Veteran, but that doesn't give him a pass on this mess. This Lady is a salesperson extraordinaire. It's likely AMEX made a mistake by allowing the chargebacks. Oh, doubtful they will admit it, but someone's probably already been fired. When things mess up this bad, there's usually fault to go all the way around - the T/S, the customer, everybody.

This is reportedly a contract dispute over $100,000 and they put them in a MAXIMUM security prison with violent offenders? Certainly the accused were pushing the contract terms - white-collar fraud is possible but unproven - regardless of guilt that does not justify putting an alleged white-collar criminal in jail for 6 months with murderers and gang members.

Why are they not considering ankle bracelet for flight risk? Confiscate passport? Notify the Border Security? Extradition with the USA? This is 2025. Mexico must have computers and capability to track such things.

 

[dioxide45]

Wow. Are you kidding? This is a contract dispute over $100,000 and they put them in a MAXIMUM security prison with violent offenders? Certainly they were pushing the system and possibly there was some white-collar fraud but that does not justify putting them in jail for 6 months with murderers and gang members.

Have you ever heard of an ankle bracelet for flight risk? Notify the Border Security? Extradition with the USA? This is 2025. In case you are not aware, Mexico has computers and capability to track such things. They are more sophisticated that you might think.

I hope this never happens to you or someone in your family. You might think differently and offer some compassion.

Do we know for sure it is MAXIMUM security prison? I understand that was the couple's and daughter's statement, but perhaps puffed up a bit to make their plight get more sympathy? Though any Mexican prison or jail is not a place I would want to spend a single day. Regardless of the level of security.

I do agree about other methods to prevent them from fleeing. They could confiscate their passport, house arrest and ankle bracelets.

 

[easyrider]

I have to wait until July 1 to book January. That's my 6 month window for Vidanta.

Is there much left at the 6 months out mark ?

Bill

 

[easyrider]

Here is an ABC report with the resorts explanation. It seems that one of the criminal complaints is for publicly showing others how to get their money back.

Bill

 

[rpennisi]

Is there much left at the 6 months out mark ?

Bill

Yes there is. I guess they have to hold units out for contract owners who have only 6 month windows on these old 25 year contracts.

 

[jp10558]

Here is an ABC report with the resorts explanation. It seems that one of the criminal complaints is for publicly showing others how to get their money back.

Bill

I guess I'm still unclear why telling people "how to get their money back" or even "commit fraud" would itself be fraud. If you believe AI it can be criminal to tell people how to commit fraud in Mexico but the actual crimes would be

1. Criminal conspiracy (asociación delictuosa)
2. Incitement to commit a crime (incitación a cometer un delito)
3. Apology for crime (apología del delito)

This outside of legal standards also kind of raises the question in my mind as a regular person - jurisdiction. It's always seemed to me that it's kind of crazy to be held responsible for something I did that I wasn't a citizen of the country, I wasn't in the country when I did it, and I didn't direct it to anyone or with anyone in the country. I know, countries don't work that way and I guess this isn't a defense, but I'm sure most people aren't trying to figure out if every social media post might be against the law in any country they may ever think about visiting in the future.

It also seems kind of odd to me that the "fraudulent activity" was telling people to basically dispute credit card charges and lock the card from future charges. This isn't some secret info or unknown technique or something. Nor is it even obvious to me that saying "don't pay this company any more money" would be suggesting an illegal act either.

 

[joestein]

I'm not sure I like using the term "game the system". That would imply to me doing something very much against the spirit of the system through a loophole. Both this case and TUG in general are more like "min/maxing" in an RPG - fully using the system, but perhaps better than "the average person". This specific case feels just like an all you can eat buffet getting butthurt because someone keeps coming back and can eat A LOT. The person isn't "cheating you", or "gaming the system", they're just using the system.

I can't even see the family here as using a loophole - unless you would also count credit card hotel points a "loophole". It was literally a very simple, well understood system. Every 2 stays by outside new people / non-owners you rent out you get 1 stay for free for you. This isn't even complicated. It's like a buy 2 get 1 free sale for goodness sake.

I don't even think that was anywhere near as unintuitive as many TUG examples. (lock-off / OGS / II stuff, RCI points with discounted stays, etc).

That is exactly what is done at TUG.

TUG is where I learned that I could deposit through Wyndham an off-season studio into RCI and exchange into a high-season 2 bedroom unit. Thus making my annual 156K points into 5 weeks in a 2 bedroom and many of them in timeshares that were much higher point value that I could afford otherwise. I did this for years - helping out my family by getting them a unit to stay in through RCI using a guest cert.

I learned how to buy a super cheap trader for Disney when it traded through II. That is before it was in RCI, I think it is back in II now.

So, nothing wrong with gaming the system. They eventually changed the system so that you could no longer trade in that manner. Plus they raised fees on everything and changed all the rules - that is when I gave the TS back to them.

 

[joestein]

Do we know for sure it is MAXIMUM security prison? I understand that was the couple's and daughter's statement, but perhaps puffed up a bit to make their plight get more sympathy? Though any Mexican prison or jail is not a place I would want to spend a single day. Regardless of the level of security.

I do agree about other methods to prevent them from fleeing. They could confiscate their passport, house arrest and ankle bracelets.

Really, are there any good Mexican Prisons? I have never been in one, but I have seen them on TV news programs. Their best is way worse than the worst in the US.

 

[joestein]

I would countersue the American branch of the country. I am pretty sure that if they filed criminal charges against this couple, the American branch can be brought to court and sued.

 

[pedro47]

When you are behind bars, you lose your freedoms to leave your new place of residence when you want to. The bathroom are not always sparkling clean liked on television. You do not have a cellphone or cable TV in your cell.

No jail or prison are liked what you see on television. Jails and prison are hard and not safe. IMH0.

 

[rpennisi]

Really, are there any good Mexican Prisons? I have never been in one, but I have seen them on TV news programs. Their best is way worse than the worst in the US.

I don't know about that. Have you seen videos or newscasts of privately run prisons in the US south?

 

[TUGBrian]

dang, this thread got merged and broke the link in the newsletter...