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[ MERGED ] Michigan family jailed in Mexico over timeshare dispute

I would countersue the American branch of the country. I am pretty sure that if they filed criminal charges against this couple, the American branch can be brought to court and sued.

Mexican law is different than American law. I'm sure that what is happening to these people is lawful in Mexico. Here are some of the differences.

Bill


Mexican law is still based upon both the Napoleonic Code and Roman Law. They refer to state judicial power as "Fuero Comun," or common law (not to be confused with American or British common law).

The American legal system is based upon case law. Court decisions made in previous cases can be used as the basis for arguing present cases before the court. Not so in Mexico, where each case must be argued anew. Appeals are known as Writs of Amparo, and it takes three separate instances of the same decision for it to assume the force of universal law.

There are no trials in Mexico. Neither is there open court. If a person is arrested, the district attorney "Ministerio Publico" has up to seventy-two hours to make a prosecutorial decision, and if the decision is made to prosecute, then the defendant is taken to prison, often referred to as the CERESO (CENTRO DE READAPTACION SOCIAL).

Within a few days, court is held at the prison. "Court" is a closed-door hearing in a small room with a window separating the defendant from his attorney, the prosecutors, the witnesses, stenographer, etc.. Missing is the judge, whom the defendant does not see. At this point the defendant is given the opportunity to tell his or her side of the story.

Depositions from witnesses/complainants have already been transcribed and are read to the defendant. The defendant will be informed if the offense is bailable. Generally bails are very low by American standards, and often the defendant wins Conditional Release after paying less than one-hundred dollars.

The depositions will be reviewed by the judge very quickly, and a decision will be rendered as to whether or not there is sufficient evidence to proceed. In some states this decision is made by a panel of judges, while in others it's made by only one judge. In many cases the amount posted as bail can be used to pay a "fine" in lieu of imprisonment upon conviction. This decision is up to the judge, and decisions can take as much as a couple of years. When the defendant is being detained in prison, this delay can be quite upsetting, for in Mexico there is no such thing as a right to a speedy trial. In fact, in Mexico, a "trial" is a process extending from the time the judge orders the defendant to be "tried" until the verdict. There's no oral testimony, no "Perry Mason" stuff, no opportunity to cross-examine witnesses. All "testimony" comes in the form of depositions that are slipped into the case folder for the judge to review, and what gets slipped in, and what gets slipped out, is a matter for your imagination.

Not-Guilty verdicts are appealable by the state.

In the Mexican legal system there are "Public Offenses" and "Private Offenses." Private Offenses are some offenses against private individuals that the state has no interest in pursuing absent a cooperating complainant. Minor assaults, property damage, simple thefts from individuals, statutory rape, generally fall under this catagory. If the "victim" in such cases withdraws the charges, even after the defendant is convicted and sent to prison, then a judge can order the defendant freed and the entire case extinguished as though it had never happened.

The thing to keep in mind is that Mexico is a republic consisting of thirty-one states and, as in the United States, each state has its own criminal and civil code. Mexican federal law applies in Mexico City, on government land and facilities, in customs and immigration, as well as to certain crimes regardless of where in Mexico they occur. For example, all drug offenses in Mexico now fall under federal law.
 
Mexican law is different than American law. I'm sure that what is happening to these people is lawful in Mexico. Here are some of the differences.

Bill


Mexican law is still based upon both the Napoleonic Code and Roman Law. They refer to state judicial power as "Fuero Comun," or common law (not to be confused with American or British common law).

The American legal system is based upon case law. Court decisions made in previous cases can be used as the basis for arguing present cases before the court. Not so in Mexico, where each case must be argued anew. Appeals are known as Writs of Amparo, and it takes three separate instances of the same decision for it to assume the force of universal law.

There are no trials in Mexico. Neither is there open court. If a person is arrested, the district attorney "Ministerio Publico" has up to seventy-two hours to make a prosecutorial decision, and if the decision is made to prosecute, then the defendant is taken to prison, often referred to as the CERESO (CENTRO DE READAPTACION SOCIAL).

Within a few days, court is held at the prison. "Court" is a closed-door hearing in a small room with a window separating the defendant from his attorney, the prosecutors, the witnesses, stenographer, etc.. Missing is the judge, whom the defendant does not see. At this point the defendant is given the opportunity to tell his or her side of the story.

Depositions from witnesses/complainants have already been transcribed and are read to the defendant. The defendant will be informed if the offense is bailable. Generally bails are very low by American standards, and often the defendant wins Conditional Release after paying less than one-hundred dollars.

The depositions will be reviewed by the judge very quickly, and a decision will be rendered as to whether or not there is sufficient evidence to proceed. In some states this decision is made by a panel of judges, while in others it's made by only one judge. In many cases the amount posted as bail can be used to pay a "fine" in lieu of imprisonment upon conviction. This decision is up to the judge, and decisions can take as much as a couple of years. When the defendant is being detained in prison, this delay can be quite upsetting, for in Mexico there is no such thing as a right to a speedy trial. In fact, in Mexico, a "trial" is a process extending from the time the judge orders the defendant to be "tried" until the verdict. There's no oral testimony, no "Perry Mason" stuff, no opportunity to cross-examine witnesses. All "testimony" comes in the form of depositions that are slipped into the case folder for the judge to review, and what gets slipped in, and what gets slipped out, is a matter for your imagination.

Not-Guilty verdicts are appealable by the state.

In the Mexican legal system there are "Public Offenses" and "Private Offenses." Private Offenses are some offenses against private individuals that the state has no interest in pursuing absent a cooperating complainant. Minor assaults, property damage, simple thefts from individuals, statutory rape, generally fall under this catagory. If the "victim" in such cases withdraws the charges, even after the defendant is convicted and sent to prison, then a judge can order the defendant freed and the entire case extinguished as though it had never happened.


The thing to keep in mind is that Mexico is a republic consisting of thirty-one states and, as in the United States, each state has its own criminal and civil code. Mexican federal law applies in Mexico City, on government land and facilities, in customs and immigration, as well as to certain crimes regardless of where in Mexico they occur. For example, all drug offenses in Mexico now fall under federal law.
Are you using AI to get this information Bill? It was noted earlier that Mexico went through reform of their criminal justice system in 2008. See post #270.
 
Are you using AI to get this information Bill? It was noted earlier that Mexico went through reform of their criminal justice system in 2008. See post #270.

No. This is from a link I had stashed away from the Baja Nomads regarding driving to Cabo. It was written by a guy named "John Adams". The scenario being played out in the arrest of the tourists kind of follows what the link describes.

Bill


https://math.ucr.edu/~ftm/bajapages/Legal.html
 
Fraud
First..... the dispute is not with the gov't. It is with a timeshare company. Also, this should be a civil matter. IMHO, this arrest is an extortion. I thought I read somewhere they got the Mexican authorities to file charges when they found out the couple was going to visit Mexico.
Fraud is a criminal offence in Mexico
 
Well... as they apparently dont have any evidence and need 6 months to get it together... How is it possibly fraud?

This is extortion from a combination of the Mexican gov't and Palace Resorts.
You say it can't possibly be fraud, but you are sure it's extortion...curious:rolleyes:
 
Well... as they apparently dont have any evidence and need 6 months to get it together... How is it possibly fraud?

This is extortion from a combination of the Mexican gov't and Palace Resorts.

In Quintana Roo they use a panel of judges to decide cases like this is what I read. Not one judge but I think six. So at least four of the six judges decided that the case has merit according to Mexican Laws. Supposedly, using more than one judge should prevent a totally biased decision since there are no jury's used in anything other than treason. I don't think the judges are involved with extortion.

The Palace Resorts has been trying to make deals with the jailed tourists which do seem like extortion but fall short of extortion, imo. It also appears that the judges will award the Palace Resorts something and if the jailed tourists are released before they pay the judgement might fall to the American Courts where the judgement might not go to the courts at all which might mean that the jailed tourists will stay in jail until the judgement is paid if a judgement is rendered, imo.


Bill
 
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They’ve been released.


Wow, 47 personally got involved in this. Those tourists got lucky with a Trump card, lol.

Bill
 
In Quintana Roo they use a panel of judges to decide cases like this is what I read. Not one judge but I think six. So at least four of the six judges decided that the case has merit according to Mexican Laws. Supposedly, using more than one judge should prevent a totally biased decision since there are no jury's used in anything other than treason. I don't think the judges are involved with extortion.

The Palace Resorts has been trying to make deals with the jailed tourists which do seem like extortion but fall short of extortion, imo. It also appears that the judges will award the Palace Resorts something and if the jailed tourists are released before they pay the judgement might fall to the American Courts where the judgement might not go to the courts at all which might mean that the jailed tourists will stay in jail until the judgement is paid if a judgement is rendered, imo.


Bill
SO, I guess in Mexico - criminal charges mean nothing. They paid off the company and were released and the criminal charges go away magically. Did they break the law or didn't they? This was literally extortion. They just had to bargain down the price. I am glad they were released, but I am also sorry they were forced to pay.
 
This thread have generated a large following on this website and I wonder have many Tuggers have crossed this Mexican resort off their exchange list?
I certainly would never travel there now.
 
Wow, 47 personally got involved in this. Those tourists got lucky with a Trump card, lol.

Bill

I am hoping the president of a country should be involved when it's citizen is detained for criminal charges over a civil dispute. Kudos to the repesentative who actually went there in person and stayed put.
Some where in that story, it says a civil dispute was also filed. I wonder where that stands.
One thing that seems to be clarified in this latest reporting is that at least some of the charge backs were for services already rendered not just for future reservations. The question still remains on what constitutes services already rendered. If I buy a membership that allows me to make reservations over a one year period but you stop allowing me to make those reservations after 3 months, will cancelling the membership and requesting my full payment back run up against services already rendered?
 
Yeah, I wouldn’t travel to the US now if I didn’t already live here, and I’m cautioning everyone here who plans to travel outside the US to be prepared for difficulties re-entering.


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That is ridiculous. I am traveling to UK/Europe next month and have zero concerns about getting back into the country.
 
I am hoping the president of a country should be involved when it's citizen is detained for criminal charges over a civil dispute. Kudos to the repesentative who actually went there in person and stayed put.
Some where in that story, it says a civil dispute was also filed. I wonder where that stands.
One thing that seems to be clarified in this latest reporting is that at least some of the charge backs were for services already rendered not just for future reservations. The question still remains on what constitutes services already rendered. If I buy a membership that allows me to make reservations over a one year period but you stop allowing me to make those reservations after 3 months, will cancelling the membership and requesting my full payment back run up against services already rendered?
From what I read the charges disputed were for reservations that Palace canceled.

I hope they countersue when they get back to the US. Their agreement should be struck down as null and void as it was under made under duress.

I think that Palace resorts is the big loser here. I would not buy a TS in Mexico in the first place, but I think that Palace will see a huge hit in their TS sales going forward. They are obviously a dishonest company (What TS company isn't) and now they have the bad publicity to go along with it.

Joe
 
I think that Palace resorts is the big loser here. I would not buy a TS in Mexico in the first place, but I think that Palace will see a huge hit in their TS sales going forward. They are obviously a dishonest company (What TS company isn't) and now they have the bad publicity to go along with it.
You would think and hope that would be the case. However, even with the bad name and press that timeshares get year after year, people continue to buy in record numbers. A lot of people don't follow the news or they get into a high pressure pitch and fall for the schtick. I suspect Palace will have no problems finding new victims.
 
SO, I guess in Mexico - criminal charges mean nothing. They paid off the company and were released and the criminal charges go away magically. Did they break the law or didn't they? This was literally extortion. They just had to bargain down the price. I am glad they were released, but I am also sorry they were forced to pay.

Civil law countries (such as Latin America and continental Europe) are very different from common law countries (Like the UK and US) when it comes to the distinction between civil law and criminal law.
 
From what I read the charges disputed were for reservations that Palace canceled.

Joe

See a quote from the CNN article. The statement is supposed to be from the resort:

“The Akeos began disputing their membership charges with their credit card companies,” Palace said in a statement last week. “These disputes – despite relating to services they had actively used – were granted,” the company said in a statement.
 
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