[ MERGED ] Michigan family jailed in Mexico over timeshare dispute

[Inhislove]

already covered!

 

[Janann]

Michigan family jailed in Mexico over timeshare dispute

I thought I saw a thread on this already, but I can't find it. If there is one, point me to it. I guess we should stop telling people there are no repercussions to skipping out on their Mexican timeshare? https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/michigan-family-jailed-mexico-over-time-share-dispute

tugbbs.com

 

[LannyPC]

This is being discussed in the Mexico forum:

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/m...-timeshare-dispute.372823/page-6#post-3154742

 

[am1]

The Reddit stream posted above is very interesting.

What is missing for me is that AMEX doesn't simply credit people's accounts because they filed a dispute. Paperwork such as a contract terms must be presented and payments and room cancellations noted to provide a case. Perhaps buyers didn't present the full story? or it was legitimate. Who knows?

Similarly AMEX usually contacts the vendor to get their side of the story. Either Palace did not provide sufficient justification to support the sale or did not respond, Alternatively AMEX didn't contact Palace to get their story - but I find that difficult to believe given the size of the claim and that they regularly collect payments for their resorts and work with their finance depts.

Net Net Palace lost the chargeback claim by AMEX that conducts due diligence so there is some evidence in writing that was presented to AMEX that the charges were for future services that were cancelled.

It's not up to Amex to decide if the debt is valid. Just if they will allow a chargeback. The merchant can still seek payment from the buyer by a different form.

 

[am1]

I cannot imagine a situation like this. The fact it’s the parents of a championship gymnast who has already faced horror just makes it worse. Does anyone know anything else?

Michigan couple in maximum-security prison over timeshare dispute in Mexico

"Our country is allowing two U.S. citizens to sit in prison over a timeshare dispute in Mexico," their daughter said.

www.wzzm13.com

I do not understand how that makes any difference? Going through a horrible situation is not a get out of jail free pass.

 

[dioxide45]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AllInclusiveResorts/comments/1jjtvft/michigan_family_jailed_in_mexico_over_travel_club

Thanks. It got a lot of replies, but the last one was four days ago. It seems to have been buried by the Reddit algo.

 

[dioxide45]

That's not what was stated in this article, where it said:

“Mexican prosecutors reviewed the evidence and, following failed attempts to serve notice, obtained a court-approved arrest warrant. INTERPOL validated the case and issued a red notice, leading to the Akeos’ detention at Cancún Airport on March 4, 2025,” the company said.​

Not sure if every arrest warrant in Mexico is in a system that flags people flying into the country; this statement seems to indicate that having Interpol involved was key in getting them flagged for arrest at the airport.

Kurt

This seems to be from the Palace statement and I suspect they puffed up their response to make these people look like some kind of international criminals and to better justify their point of view. It is certainly possible that the Interpol red notice is what Mexico used to identify the inbound fliers, but it would seem odd that they couldn't rely on their own warrants to make such an arrest?

Not sure how all this actually works, but if the couple was wanted by Interpol, wouldn't they be flagged at the USA airport?

Interpol isn't a law enforcement organization. It is an organization of member countries that work to help fight crime and apprehend people with an outstanding warrant that has been reported to Interpol. Have these people traveled anywhere outside the USA since early 2024 when Interpol was put on notice? I doubt any US agencies would proactively go after someone like this unless perhaps they are a top 100 most wanted or something like that.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Interpol isn't a law enforcement organization.

Yeah, this. People keep posting that “they were wanted by Interpol” as if that actually means anything.

 

[VacationForever]

To be clear, we don't go to Mexico anymore because of their drug cartels and don't want to subject ourselves to potential kidnapping or any crime that we may become a victim of.

I may be of minority opinion here. I see this couple as having this coming for them. Telling others how to defraud Palace is propagating fraud. Palace has a bone to pick and they were idiots to step foot back into Mexico. If not for the drug cartel situation, this case where the couple landed in jail would not have detered me from visiting Mexico.

 

[Inhislove]

I do not understand how that makes any difference? Going through a horrible situation is not a get out of jail free

I do not understand how that makes any difference? Going through a horrible situation is not a get out of jail free pass.

I just have compassion for their daughter because she’s already been through a lot and had only seen her perspective. Certainly doesn’t change the fact that if you try to defraud or steal, there are consequences!

 

[easyrider]

To be clear, we don't go to Mexico anymore because of their drug cartels and don't want to subject ourselves to potential kidnapping or any crime that we may become a victim of.

I may be of minority opinion here. I see this couple as having this coming for them. Telling others how to defraud Palace is propagating fraud. Palace has a bone to pick and they were idiots to step foot back into Mexico. If not for the drug cartel situation, this case where the couple landed in jail would not have detered me from visiting Mexico.

For us and 45 million other tourists, even with it's problems, which are plenty, Mexico is t shirt warm in our winter, very affordable, very tourist safe and does have plenty of charms.

Bill

 

[Panzerman45]

If they knowingly committed fraud and then were arrogant enough to boast about it.... I hope they spend many years in the Mexican prison system.

 

[Brerrabbit]

I don't know the details of this so my comments are probably not well informed or relevant, but I have heard that the legal system in Mexico can be pretty corrupt sometimes.

One of the best stories I heard about this kind of thing was way back in the 70s or 80s, I don't remember exactly when, but a couple of Americans got thrown in a Mexican jail in some little border town (I think it was Piedras Negras) for some kind of b.s. charge and so some of their friends got together and got some shotguns and about 1 or 2 a.m. just walked across the border (there was not the same level of border security that there is now) and went into the jail (there was only 1 jail guard, I think) and got them out of there and took off back across the border. I don't know if there were any legal implications on the U.S. side, but I would much rather deal with the U.S. legal system than the Mexican one. I don't know if anything like that would be practical now, or how far it would be from where they are to the border, but it's a thought.

Or maybe they could just bribe somebody to get them out of there. It would not surprise me a bit if that were totally possible.

 

[CericRushmore]

Ben and OneMileAtATime wrote an updated article. He is usually pretty good as being reasonable with analysis, though I can't vouch for what is in there of course. https://onemileatatime.com/news/couple-jailed-mexico-resort-credit-card-dispute/

He says "
As of a few years ago, the couple had $1.4 million worth of memberships, with over $500K already paid in. They had signed 19 different membership agreements. The wife reportedly vacationed in Mexico every month, to escape the cold weather in Michigan."

That seems crazy to me. He says "
Among other things, the wife seemed to basically be a reseller of Palace Resorts stays, and you can see many of her Facebook posts around 1min40sec and 2min15sec into the below video."

I didn't really know that was a thing. Does anyone know if they had some sort of referral program?

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Being a reseller/referral affiliate - especially when the program is outlined in a contract - is not a crime as Palace appears to have confirmed in their statement. It appears she took her payment for her efforts as a sales channel in bonus weeks instead of cash.

The charges seem to center on the AMEX chargebacks. There appears to be disagreement as to whether the chargebacks were for future services or current services.

What if the chargebacks were for current year Maintenance Fees but they had not stayed there this year? They weren't headed for vacation at this resort. We also shouldn't forget that they already paid in $500k per the documents that they will never recoup. Where does that fit into this calculation?

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Being a reseller/referral affiliate especially - when the program is outlined in a contract - is not a crime as Palace appears to have confirmed in their statement. It appears she took her payment for her time in bonus weeks instead of cash.

The charges seem to center on the AMEX chargebacks. There appears to be disagreement as to whether the chargebacks were for future services or current services.......

I am not sure Palace Resorts has a required MF as a opposed to a Usage Fee due when booked. TUG member @pierrepierre may be able clarify.

Does the $ 1.4+ million in payments include Usage Fees on the 1570 bookings they made over their 7 1/2 years of membership?
Simple math makes this a net cost per week of approx. $ 900 and an average of 4 bookings per week.
If they did not pay the last 2 months of Usage Fees charged to their Amex card this could be over $28,,000 [ 8 weeks x 4 x $900 = $28,800 ]
[ @lilliand thanks for that posting of information]

If they were reselling at a 100% profit [ $ 1800 charge / $ 900 profit ] then their profit could be significant

It is possible the IRS may want to talk to them too.

 

[dioxide45]

I am not sure Palace Resorts has a required MF as a opposed to a Usage Fee due when booked. TUG member @pierrepierre may be able clarify.

Does the $ 1.4+ million in payments include Usage Fees on the 1570 bookings they made over their 7 1/2 years of membership?
Simple math makes this a net cost per week of approx. $ 900 and an average of 4 bookings per week.
If they did not pay the last 2 months of Usage Fees charged to their Amex card this could be over $28,,000 [ 8 weeks x 4 x $900 = $28,800 ]
[ @lilliand thanks for that posting of information]

If they were reselling at a 100% profit [ $ 1800 charge / $ 900 profit ] then their profit could be significant

It is possible the IRS may want to talk to them too.

From past posts about this. They would refer guests to Palace Resorts. For every two guests it would get them one week at a Palace Resort property. How many of those guests also bought into the Palace Resorts membership program? They had apparently amassed 75 free weeks. They took to perhaps renting those weeks out for cash. So that would be pure profit. Something Palace didn't like so they stepped in and cancelled reservations and changed the terms of the referral program. It was this change in terms, or breach of contract by Palace that led them to start chargebacks on previous Amex charges. How true is any of this? I don't know as most everything mentioned about this is hearsay.

 

[Roger830]

Ben and OneMileAtATime wrote an updated article. He is usually pretty good as being reasonable with analysis, though I can't vouch for what is in there of course. https://onemileatatime.com/news/couple-jailed-mexico-resort-credit-card-dispute/

That's a well written piece that sheds a little more light on the subject.

What I find most interesting are the comments to the article which are very similar to the comments on the Dailymail and NY Post articles.

There seems to be very little sympathy for the couple. They are seen to be responsible for being in that situation even though timeshare companies are not viewed in a favorable light. It was like attempting to steal from a better thief.

It appears that a financial settlement might be their best hope. Because they are viewed so unfavorably, It's not likely that there will be any travel repercussions against Palace.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

That's a well written piece that sheds a little more light on the subject.

What I find most interesting are the comments to the article which are very similar to the comments on the Dailymail and NY Post articles.

There seems to be very little sympathy for the couple. They are seen to be responsible for being in that situation even though timeshare companies are not viewed in a favorable light. It was like attempting to steal from a better thief.

It appears that a financial settlement might be their best hope. Because they are viewed so unfavorably, It's not likely that there will be any travel repercussions against Palace.

Well said. But I still am not clear about where the "stealing" is coming in. It sounds like Palace took away bonus weeks from them that they earned from referrals that were earned as specified in their contract and then changed the terms. There was mention of her son's bachelor party so perhaps those bonus weeks weren't rented to strangers as they suggested i.e. not commercial?

There is an employee of AMEX in the comments:

"I worked for American Express Card Member Services in the VIP Card Member division. Think Black Card... Amex does not take disputes lightly. If they sided with this couple there was Avery good reason for that."

 

[sponger76]

I don't know as most everything mentioned about this is heresy.

Heresy? We can't have that!Grab the torch and pitchfork!

Or do you mean hearsay?

 

[Roger830]

"I worked for American Express Card Member Services in the VIP Card Member division. Think Black Card... Amex does not take disputes lightly. If they sided with this couple there was Avery good reason for that.

It seemed to us with the experiences that we have had with our small claims against charges on credit cards and Paypal was that the claims process was automated. We would reply to a form and the opposing party did also, then action was taken. I had a a reject by Paypal for an anti-virus software subscription charge of over $200 because I didn't follow the proper canceling procedure. I could appeal by snail mailing my claim in a letter. Instead, I called the software company and told the rep that I saw on the internet that they will forgive mistakes. They refunded my payment. I have gotten favorable results in the past just by mentioning the internet.

My understanding is that the reason some business don't take amex is because their fees are higher. I can't imagine that amex would reverse 6-figures without a meaning full investigation or legal pressure.

Even though amex might have thought that Palace was sleazy, what they did still might have been legal.

 

[Rubber duck]

They are being charged with fraud and in Mexico it is a criminal offence not civil; hence jail.

 

[SueDonJ]

[Moderator Note: Multiple posts that delve into the politics of drug cartels and drug abuse have been deleted. I think we can all agree that drug cartels exist in Mexico, and it's not against TUG Rules to say simply whether or not that's a travel issue for you personally. It is against TUG Rules, however, to delve into the politics of how the issue can be solved, or, what steps each/both countries should be doing about it. It's a very fine line, we all know, but let's make the effort to not cross it.]

 

[Rubber duck]

Boy, all the more reason not to purchase in a foreign country.

Better yet don't purchase anywhere

 

[Sandy VDH]

Better yet don't purchase anywhere

You are on a forum of timeshare owners, clearly that is NOT the common thought around here. But you don't have to purchase one from the developer either and still own a timeshare. And yet your profile lists you own one anyway. LOL