Marriott Vacation Club - Secondary Market

[BocaBoy]

The only newer property that is in the US that doesn't have ROFR is NJ, I don't know why that is but I'm sure there's some reason or it likely legal in nature.

Fairway Villas in New Jersey is what I would consider an older property. It has been there for a long time.

 

[Steve Fatula]

This thread her on TUG might give more credibility https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/marriotts-right-of-first-refusal-rofr.13111/ I doubt MVCI is going to volunteer a full list but they might respond to requests about a specific property. Like ROFR in general, it's in their best interest to keep you guessing. It's possible some new options will come on board where ROFR is not possible such as is he case for St. Thomas (MVC & Ritz) but as a rule those are either going to be points properties or older properties. The only newer property that is in the US that doesn't have ROFR is NJ, I don't know why that is but I'm sure there's some reason or it likely legal in nature.

Very interesting, thanks!

 

[bazzap]

But, that's a third party link, what makes it authoritative?

Agreed, only an officially documented list or statement from MVC would be definitive.
In the absence of that though, this is probably as good as it gets and it is accurate for the 5 resorts we own at.

 

[Dean]

Fairway Villas in New Jersey is what I would consider an older property. It has been there for a long time.

I haven't seen the property but from a Marriott perspective and in the context of this discussion it isn't an older property, maybe early 2000. In general these are all 1980 acquisitions/developments. Those that were either acquired or on properties that were acquired when MVC started (HP, SP, Vail, Monarch) and those that were the initial projects, Heritage, Harbour Club, DS I, 2 of the World Village options with the exceptions noted. I'm presuming Imperial Palms was the last built with this information. By 91/92 it was in place, I'm not sure if MGO was the first to have ROFR but if not it was close. FV definitely came well after ROFR was alive and well.

 

[brianfox]

I'm thinking about buying a Marriott Vacation Club week on the secondary market. Has anyone had any experience (good or bad) with using a week purchased on the secondary market? I'm concerned that I might go to the bottom of the list with respect to availability and preferred unit assignments. How about with respect to Destination Points (Trust Points) on the secondary market?
Thanks.

Buying on the secondary market does NOT put you at the bottom of any list. Depending on the popularity of the resort you purchase and the week you plan to stay, reserving that week can be difficult. Some weeks at some resorts can be so popular that they are gone less than an hour after the inventory becomes available. It's not just owners that plan to stay there during that popular week, but also the owners who want to reserve it so they can get higher rent for it. So if you want to do wither of those, you either call Marriott exactly at the moment the weeks become available to reserve, or you purchase two weeks so you can reserve a month earlier.

Securing a popular week is a problem people face, whether weeks owners or Destination Points owners.

Because the Destination program is still new (and is Marriott's current timeshare revenue stream), secondary market points are MUCH MUCH more expensive than secondary weeks.
So as someone considering purchasing your options are really:

• Purchase Destination Points from Marriott (far too expensive, but includes all "perks")
• Purchase Destination Points on secondary market (Some saving over Marriott, but you lose some "perks")
• Purchase weeks on secondary market (excellent value with no perks)
• Rent where you want to stay (can be the best value, and you have no exposure to special assessments and no potential loss of value)

The value of the "perks" lost by not buying from Marriott (to me and probably most here) don't even begin to approach the delta between buying from Marriott vs purchasing resale.

 

[StevenTing]

So as someone considering purchasing your options are really:

• Purchase Destination Points from Marriott (far too expensive, but includes all "perks")
• Purchase Destination Points on secondary market (Some saving over Marriott, but you lose some "perks")
• Purchase weeks on secondary market (excellent value with no perks)
• Rent where you want to stay (can be the best value, and you have no exposure to special assessments and no potential loss of value)

The value of the "perks" lost by not buying from Marriott (to me and probably most here) don't even begin to approach the delta between buying from Marriott vs purchasing resale.

What are some of the lost perks of resale points other than the one-time use points they offer?

 

[JIMinNC]

What are some of the lost perks of resale points other than the one-time use points they offer?

The only one I am aware of is the program docs do give MVC the right to restrict resale points - even those for which the $3/point junk fee has been paid - from being able to use "Special Benefits", which is generally considered to be things like the Explorer Collection, Cruises, the Home rentals, etc, As far as anyone can tell/report, MVC has so far chosen NOT to enforce this restriction/right, but the docs do give them the right to do so in the future if they so choose. Obviously, those options are not generally considered to be good values for point use anyway, so not sure that is a big perk to consider anyway. But as a technical answer to the question you posed, that is the only one I am aware could be implemented.

 

[brianfox]

What are some of the lost perks of resale points other than the one-time use points they offer?

Steven, to be honest - you got me. I am making an assumption that Marriott has found a way to dissuade people from buying resale points. Perhaps all they currently have is a one time bonus. But I've known Marriott long enough to know there must be more than that. My point to the OP was intended to be that the best deal by far they will get (for Marriott) is resale weeks or renting.

I have no idea how accurate this is, but a quick search seems to indicate Marriott sells points for about $9 each while resale is around $4 each (before any fees). I'm kind of surprised that even after such a short time resale on DC points is < 50% of developer price. Maybe I'm not looking at the right sources.

Using those assumed values, a 2BR Waiohai Island View in summer is 4850 points. Using my resort as a model.
@ $9 a point, that is $43650 for 4850 DC points from Marriott, with MF of $2682
@ $4 a point, that is $19200 for 4850 DC points from resale market, with MF of $2682
An annual Waiohai week sells for $5000-$6000, with annual MF around $2100
A typical July rent is $2200-$2800 for that resort.

That should give the OP a fairly accurate difference in the methods he can acquire/use Marriott.

 

[bazzap]

Steven, to be honest - you got me. I am making an assumption that Marriott has found a way to dissuade people from buying resale points. Perhaps all they currently have is a one time bonus. But I've known Marriott long enough to know there must be more than that. My point to the OP was intended to be that the best deal by far they will get (for Marriott) is resale weeks or renting.

I have no idea how accurate this is, but a quick search seems to indicate Marriott sells points for about $9 each while resale is around $4 each (before any fees). I'm kind of surprised that even after such a short time resale on DC points is < 50% of developer price. Maybe I'm not looking at the right sources.

Using those assumed values, a 2BR Waiohai Island View in summer is 4850 points. Using my resort as a model.
@ $9 a point, that is $43650 for 4850 DC points from Marriott, with MF of $2682
@ $4 a point, that is $19200 for 4850 DC points from resale market, with MF of $2682
An annual Waiohai week sells for $5000-$6000, with annual MF around $2100
A typical July rent is $2200-$2800 for that resort.

That should give the OP a fairly accurate difference in the methods he can acquire/use Marriott.

My understanding was tha MVC now sell DC Points for $13.96 before any incentive.
They also ROFR at around $4.50 on Private Resales and for deals which go through they charge approx
$3+ Junk Fees.
So the comparison would be $13.96 v $7.50+

 

[taterhed]

Steven, to be honest - you got me. I am making an assumption that Marriott has found a way to dissuade people from buying resale points. Perhaps all they currently have is a one time bonus. But I've known Marriott long enough to know there must be more than that. My point to the OP was intended to be that the best deal by far they will get (for Marriott) is resale weeks or renting.

I have no idea how accurate this is, but a quick search seems to indicate Marriott sells points for about $9 each while resale is around $4 each (before any fees). I'm kind of surprised that even after such a short time resale on DC points is < 50% of developer price. Maybe I'm not looking at the right sources.

Using those assumed values, a 2BR Waiohai Island View in summer is 4850 points. Using my resort as a model.
@ $9 a point, that is $43650 for 4850 DC points from Marriott, with MF of $2682
@ $4 a point, that is $19200 for 4850 DC points from resale market, with MF of $2682
An annual Waiohai week sells for $5000-$6000, with annual MF around $2100
A typical July rent is $2200-$2800 for that resort.

That should give the OP a fairly accurate difference in the methods he can acquire/use Marriott.

for the record:

MVC just ROFR'd my Waiohai at contract price of $7500 So, YMMV
A few Tuggers (@StevenTing ) have gotten DC points for quite a bit less than $7.50 (prior to $3) as well.

As always, no method to the madness

 

[vacationtime1]

for the record:

MVC just ROFR'd my Waiohai at contract price of $7500 So, YMMV
A few Tuggers (@StevenTing ) have gotten DC points for quite a bit less than $7.50 (prior to $3) as well.

As always, no method to the madness

IV or OV at that price?

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

I think most people underestimate the $3 per point fee to Marriott. That's around 25% of the typical sales price, with no overhead. (Separate fees for the actual transfer costs.) That's a great business model. Money rolls in, even if the company decided not to sell any more new points. . .

 

[taterhed]

IV or OV at that price?

IV.

The current Marriott cash-out offer was at $5500. That's down from a Feb offer of $6700 (net)

 

[brianfox]

for the record:

MVC just ROFR'd my Waiohai at contract price of $7500 So, YMMV
A few Tuggers (@StevenTing ) have gotten DC points for quite a bit less than $7.50 (prior to $3) as well.

As always, no method to the madness

Wow! While I'm sorry your purchase failed ROFR, I'm even happier that all three of mine passed.
Looking at rofr.net, looks like Marriott was letting anything go last year, but 2 of 2 failed this year.
Very little reported activity this year for Waiohai sales compared to last.

 

[brianfox]

My understanding was tha MVC now sell DC Points for $13.96 before any incentive.
They also ROFR at around $4.50 on Private Resales and for deals which go through they charge approx
$3+ Junk Fees.
So the comparison would be $13.96 v $7.50+

So based on this input from several people, I guess a better comparison of options for, say, an annual Island View Waiohai is:

4,850 Marriott DC Points @ $13.96 a point ($67,706), with MF of $2,682
4,850 Resale DC Points @ $7.50 a point ($36,375), with MF of $2,682
An annual Waiohai deeded week should pass ROFR at about $8,000, with annual MF around $2,100
A typical July rent is $2,200-$2,800 for an IV 2BR.

I just can't fathom paying an extra $28K above a deeded week for the "privilege" of having DC points.

 

[VacationForever]

So based on this input from several people, I guess a better comparison of options for, say, an annual Island View Waiohai is:

4,850 Marriott DC Points @ $13.96 a point ($67,706), with MF of $2,682
4,850 Resale DC Points @ $7.50 a point ($36,375), with MF of $2,682
An annual Waiohai deeded week should pass ROFR at about $8,000, with annual MF around $2,100
A typical July rent is $2,200-$2,800 for an IV 2BR.

I just can't fathom paying an extra $28K above a deeded week for the "privilege" of having DC points.

When you buy 4,850 Marriott DC points, I believe you get a discount of 25%, which would translate to $10.47 * 4850 = $50,780.
You can also get a hybrid package from Marriott directly, which comes up to around $7.50 per point as well, which is the same number you have for 4,850 Resale DC points.

 

[taterhed]

Yup.

The lonely thing that really makes sense is either a very motivated owner that needs points for status or a hybrid-type deal with points in the $5-7 range for flexibility and MF's at less than .50 cents.

It's a tight game.
RENTING is where it's at.....too bad the min points is so high.

Hmm. Min points with ROFR including new fees..... might have to look into some 'zero dollar' points.

 

[bazzap]

So based on this input from several people, I guess a better comparison of options for, say, an annual Island View Waiohai is:

4,850 Marriott DC Points @ $13.96 a point ($67,706), with MF of $2,682
4,850 Resale DC Points @ $7.50 a point ($36,375), with MF of $2,682
An annual Waiohai deeded week should pass ROFR at about $8,000, with annual MF around $2,100
A typical July rent is $2,200-$2,800 for an IV 2BR.

I just can't fathom paying an extra $28K above a deeded week for the "privilege" of having DC points.

Me neither, which is why our last 4 purchases have been Resale weeks.
We are already DC enrolled Chairman’s Club owners though, so there is no incentive for us to buy Points in any form.
Different people have different requirements though, so everyone to their own.

 

[JIMinNC]

I just can't fathom paying an extra $28K above a deeded week for the "privilege" of having DC points.

It's all in how you use your ownership. In the MVC system, we will only buy deeded weeks at places we want to use. For that, weeks can't be beat. But for going other places, DC points meet our needs much better since we dislike the deposit/search/wait game in II. We have one remaining week deposited in II which we hope to use for Newport Coast in fall 2019 and have an ongoing search for Sept/Oct already underway. Right now, we can't make any other plans for late summer or fall 2019 until we see what week we might get at Newport Coast. Little chance we'll get a match on our OGS before this fall, so our late 3Q/4Q 2019 planning is frozen until that is resolved. II trading offers good $$ value, but it's not worth the hassle to us. Trading through II will be our last resort usage option going forward. We strongly prefer the ability to book exactly what we need with DC points - any check-in day, flexible stay lengths, pick the view and room size we want, etc - over the II process. DC points are obviously less cost effective than trading, but they are still a better value than renting, since we aren't comfortable relying on person-to-person rentals on places like RedWeek, VRBO, and AirBnB.

 

[taterhed]

Yup.

Thank goodness we don't all want exactly the same thing.
I think I'd be on the short end of the stick....

 

[Steve Fatula]

So based on this input from several people, I guess a better comparison of options for, say, an annual Island View Waiohai is:

4,850 Marriott DC Points @ $13.96 a point ($67,706), with MF of $2,682
4,850 Resale DC Points @ $7.50 a point ($36,375), with MF of $2,682
An annual Waiohai deeded week should pass ROFR at about $8,000, with annual MF around $2,100
A typical July rent is $2,200-$2,800 for an IV 2BR.

I just can't fathom paying an extra $28K above a deeded week for the "privilege" of having DC points.

An alternative I used was buying a Marriott (direct) week in Spain. The DC points effective cost was $4+, and, I could use as a week or trade if I wish, or, if I have a specific requirement that only points can satisfy, I can use points. It's still more than a resale week of course (but nowhere near $28k more!). But, points gives me quite a few benefits that I cannot get with weeks. So, most of the time, will use as DC points.

 

[brianfox]

Yup.

Thank goodness we don't all want exactly the same thing.
I think I'd be on the short end of the stick....

Wait, I've been operating under the impression that the rest of the world wants the same thing I do.

 

[taterhed]

yup, world peace and harmony. That's it.

 

[skyequeen]

We bought our last timeshare a couple of years ago - in Aruba - as part of a bundle. All-in cost about $7.00/point. We only wanted Aruba and they came up with it perhaps through a broker. If you can get Marriott to get the resale you want, and you want more points, this could be the most economical way to go per point and without ROFR hanging over your head. We were told last year they were backing off bundles, but they change approaches all the time. But a resale with points is a large financial hit.

 

[coachBoris]

Not sure this is the right place but I wanted to ask the question. When do I post info on the ROFR.net? I just got an email from the closing company my broker used for our purchase of a 2BR OV EY for 4400.00 at the Aruba Surf Club stating Marriott waived their ROFR. Just sent our photo IDs, we should get the contract tomorrow.