MARRIOTT / CORONAVIRUS [MERGED]

[SueDonJ]

In discussions like this, with several people taking as if they represent the interests of resort developers, I suggest the name of this website be changed from Timeshare User’s Group to Timeshare Developers Group. I am interested in reading some postings from the developer’s position but it really does appear that some posters are trying to get the rest of us to accept the developer’s position. I respect the diversity of opinions and I value this website for the educational information it provides, but every now and then some people take such a hard line position on behalf of developers that I find that they dismiss the opinions of others whose opinion is different.

Just because we understand how Marriott manages the timeshare inventory, and how/why extreme events that cause cancelations can result in a forfeiture of usage in a given year, DOES NOT MEAN that we're lackeys for the developer/manager company OR that we are dismissing the opinions of those who disagree. It just means that we recognize the constraints that Marriott faces, recognize that Marriott simply can't pull future inventory out of thin air in order to allow all those impacted by the events to be made whole, recognize that Marriott can't refund MF's for the impacted unused intervals because the resorts still have to pay the bills to keep the resorts solvent and ready for owners when the event is over, recognize that the MVW timeshare company is constrained by the Marriott Int'l hotel company's rules insofar as it may not be financially or otherwise possible for MVW to obtain enough Bonvoy Points from MI to even offer that as a remedy.

They're relaxing the cancelation rules and allowing extended usage through II or the Destination Club Exchange Company as best they can without jeopardizing the future deed-protected usage of all owners. Under the circumstances I really don't understand how they can be faulted. Yes, it's infuriating to lose usage through no fault of your own. Yes, it's okay to vent about it and say Marriott is an unfeeling corporate monster that holds all the cards which is incredibly frustrating. But it's not okay, in my personal opinion, to insult your fellow owners for simply trying to help you understand (because we all know that on TUG, being a developer sympathizer is the worst insult that can be leveled.)

 

[Dean]

In discussions like this, with several people taking as if they represent the interests of resort developers, I suggest the name of this website be changed from Timeshare User’s Group to Timeshare Developers Group. I am interested in reading some postings from the developer’s position but it really does appear that some posters are trying to get the rest of us to accept the developer’s position. I respect the diversity of opinions and I value this website for the educational information it provides, but every now and then some people take such a hard line position on behalf of developers that I find that they dismiss the opinions of others whose opinion is different.

IMO it's not taking the developers side but rather understanding what the variables are and one's personal responsibility and risk. That some see the position that they shouldn't give you something they own as hard line, speaks volumes. If the opinion of personal responsibility, understanding what one owns, and going by the rules in place offends you, you should likely put me on ignore because this is all I've said when you boil it down.

I would say it does. Back after Irma and Maria wiped out the Westin St John, Vistana gave all owners their StarOptions for the weeks that they could not use. Many even paid a lower MF due to lower operating costs, but that is just a side note. Vistana purposely gave up its developer owned inventory, or at least some of it, so it could fulfill vacation reservations using those points. I think Vistana had a better commitment to their owners (at least at that time) than Marriott has shown over the years and in those same situations.

As noted, there is a significant difference in volume. Plus they weren't giving anything of theirs, as I understand it, they were giving back something one could use to compete with other owners. IMO that would be inappropriate in this situation for full use on a wholesale basis. DVC has a policy that if your resort is unusable but is planned to be reopened, you can use your points elsewhere. That too is on the back of owners.

 

[SueDonJ]

I would say it does. Back after Irma and Maria wiped out the Westin St John, Vistana gave all owners their StarOptions for the weeks that they could not use. Many even paid a lower MF due to lower operating costs, but that is just a side note. Vistana purposely gave up its developer owned inventory, or at least some of it, so it could fulfill vacation reservations using those points. I think Vistana had a better commitment to their owners (at least at that time) than Marriott has shown over the years and in those same situations.

But there's no way that Marriott is holding enough inventory to make all of these impacted owners whole. Remember when they shifted reservations among the Hilton Head resorts that remained open after the recent hurricanes, making some owners whole and not others? Even though we understood what they were doing, protecting owners to the detriment of II users, I was right there with the people who thought that was an incredibly unfair solution. They were roasted over the coals all over social media! I think it's good to see this time that they're instead using a blanket approach that doesn't leave some impacted owners whole and others not.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Just because we understand how Marriott manages the timeshare inventory, and how/why extreme events that cause cancelations can result in a forfeiture of usage in a given year, DOES NOT MEAN that we're lackeys for the developer/manager company OR that we are dismissing the opinions of those who disagree. It just means that we recognize the constraints that Marriott faces, recognize that Marriott simply can't pull future inventory out of thin air in order to allow all those impacted by the events to be made whole, recognize that Marriott can't refund MF's for the impacted unused intervals because the resorts still have to pay the bills to keep the resorts solvent and ready for owners when the event is over, recognize that the MVW timeshare company is constrained by the Marriott Int'l hotel company's rules insofar as it may not be financially or otherwise possible for MVW to obtain enough Bonvoy Points from MI to even offer that as a remedy.

They're relaxing the cancelation rules and allowing extended usage through II or the Destination Club Exchange Company as best they can without jeopardizing the future deed-protected usage of all owners. Under the circumstances I really don't understand how they can be faulted. Yes, it's infuriating to lose usage through no fault of your own. Yes, it's okay to vent about it and say Marriott is an unfeeling corporate monster that holds all the cards which is incredibly frustrating. But it's not okay, in my personal opinion, to insult your fellow owners for simply trying to help you understand (because we all know that on TUG, being a developer sympathizer is the worst insult that can be leveled.)

Well said. I think what we are finding is a bunch of people who have never had to cancel before, and, they are learning the rules of that. There are a fair amount of cancel questions, holding account questions, 120 day questions, inventory questions, etc. Those cancellation policies have been there all along, but, people simply haven't needed to use them. Some seem to think they are new and more restricting than before, they are not. It's a learning experience to some degree. Heck, even what travel insurance might cover, different types, cancel for any reason, etc. I think in good times people have just always assumed they will get their week or whatever every time and didn't pay much attention to cancels and so on. I think the main issue here is not understanding their ownership and how it works behind the scenes. I think if people would take a deep breath and listened a little, they might learn and while still be unhappy or disappointed, at least understand the whys of it. No one can ever be pleased their trip plans are gone!

There are many things MVCI can be faulted for, for example long wait times. On that sometimes I may appear to be defending MVCI as I am continually wondering why I have never had to wait since the reports started last Nov/Dec. It's easy to misunderstand what people are saying. In my case I am genuinely curious as to how mine is different. I recognize and know that many people have had horrible wait times, this does not change that and yes I totally agree that is wrong! It's merely a curiosity as to why I have not had the same result. Is it time of day? Is it blind luck? Is it I am calling from home phone? Is it the presidential line? Is it some special flag on my account that says I am special please answer instantly? I have no clue. However, I am *not* defending MVCI on that.

 

[ljmiii]

Even worse there is no reason for MVC to put them into a holding account that prevents you from using these COVID-19 cancelled points for anything else - Cruises, Collette Tours, Explorer Collection, third home, II deposits, etc. It's not like these are the best use of DPs...but something would be a lot better than nothing.

 

[floyddl]

I just logged on and this was on the front page.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update:
Marriott Vacation Club is actively monitoring the situation regarding the spread of the Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19), including related guidance provided by local government and public health officials, and is following any protocols issued by governmental authorities and agencies in the locations in which we do business. All resorts remain open at this time. We encourage all Owners, Members and guests to refer to the World Health Organization (WHO), the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) or their local health authority for more information about COVID-19.
The health and safety measures that are already in place at our resorts and properties are designed to address a broad spectrum of viruses, including COVID-19. Our cleaning protocols include everything from handwashing hygiene and cleaning product specifications, to villa and common area cleaning procedures. However, in response to the spread of COVID-19, our resorts and properties have also increased the cleaning protocols for high frequency guest touchpoints. As always, the safety and well-being of our Owners, Members, guests and associates is our top priority.
Cancellation Policy Information:
Due to extremely high call volumes, if you need to cancel a reservation for an arrival in the next 75 days, please complete the following feedback form.
Owners using Marriott Vacation Club Destination Points

• Arrival 61 days or more prior to check-in: Vacation Club Points will be returned to their account and the Points Premium(if any) will be returned to a Holding Account.
• Arrival 1-60 days prior to check-in, the Vacation Club Points will be returned to a Holding Account, and the Points Premium (if any) will be forfeited. Hold Points can be used for a reservation or select Explorer offerings within 120 days of arrival.
• Day of Arrival reservations will result in the Vacation Club Points being forfeited.

Owners Using Ownership Weeks for a reservation

• Arrival 61 days or more prior to check-in: – Reservation can be cancelled, and Cancellation fees waived
• Arrival from 14-60 days prior to check-in: no cancellations are permitted, but week can be deposited with Interval International for a late deposit that can be reserved within 60 days of arrival
• Arrival from 3-14 days prior to check-in: no cancellations are permitted but a week can be deposited with Interval International for a week that can be reserved with Interval within 30 days of arrival
• Arrival from 0-2 days prior to arrival. No cancellations are permitted.

Other Reservations types

• If you have a reservation confirmed through Interval International, please contact them directly at 800-468-3782.
• If you have a rental reservation, please contact 1-800-Villas9
• If you have a Preview reservation, please contact 800-782-5410

Submit Your Cancellation Request

Hopefully it will help some people. I am 61 days out on a Waikoloa trip. Trying to decide what to do.

Owners Using Ownership Weeks for a reservation
​

• Arrival 61 days or more prior to check-in: – Reservation can be cancelled, and Cancellation fees waived

So what happens with the ownership week when you cancel your weeks home resort reservation 62 days prior to check in? You get to book another week in the same season? or by end of the year? Given that platinum season at the beach resorts end in mid August you would have to take a downgrade to book later in the year.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Actually, you are not prevented from using them for other things. Who told you that?

 

[Steve Fatula]

Owners Using Ownership Weeks for a reservation

• Arrival 61 days or more prior to check-in: – Reservation can be cancelled, and Cancellation fees waived

So what happens with the ownership week when you cancel your weeks home resort reservation 62 days prior to check in? You get to book another week in the same season? or by end of the year? Given that platinum season at the beach resorts end in mid August you would have to take a downgrade to book later in the year.

It would be as if you had never elected to occupy. So, arrange another week, deposit into II, etc.

 

[VacationForever]

Actually, you are not prevented from using them for other things. Who told you that?

I discovered that one of the very few things you cannot use holding account points is for golf.

 

[Steve Fatula]

I discovered that one of the very few things you cannot use holding account points is for golf.

But you can use them for resort credits, insurance, and many other things. Surprised golf is an exception! Worst case for you, lol.

 

[brianfox]

Deleted

 

[amy241]

We have a similar problem only we have a reservation with our owner's week. My Mom is close to 80 and not sure she wants to fly cross country with layovers. The policy is even stricter with that and all we can do is a late deposit with Interval. We have had some good vacations through Interval but a late deposit severely limits us since we are working and generally have to plan our trips more than 60 days outs. Also, this is the same policy that they always have as far as I can see. I figured when we got the e-mail from MVCI and there was no mention of cancellation changes this was the case. However, a call to Canyon Villas got us a different answer as they said we could cancel up to 24 hours and rebook for a later date. So a lot of mixed messages. What I find interesting is that they say they can't address since they don't own inventory but somehow our other vacation clubs have sent out e-mails offering to redeposit with no penalty -so not sure I am buying they can't work with owners. They do have plenty of sales inventory. LOL. Contrary to what I may have thought previously, I find that MVCI is less understanding of people's concerns than any of the other properties that we own. We pay a heck of a lot of maintenance fees to not get any use from our property.

We are in the same boat. We bought a week at MKO last year with usage to begin this year. We have never even used it yet - that hurts. We has to cancel our May 2nd arrival and all we got was a late deposit into II. That’s not even worth the $2500 in maintenance fees we paid IMHO.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

We are in the same boat. We bought a week at MKO last year with usage to begin this year. We have never even used it yet - that hurts. We has to cancel our May 2nd arrival and all we got was a late deposit into II. That’s not even worth the $2500 in maintenance fees we paid IMHO.

This is really too bad, however if you had the Travel Insurance that Marriott offers then your $2,500 would have all been covered for you....



.

 

[VacationForever]

This is really too bad, however if you had the Travel Insurance that Marriott offers then your $2,500 would have all been covered for you....



.

Would it? From everything that I am reading, travel insurance does not cover fear of catching a disease.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Would it? From everything that I am reading, travel insurance does not cover fear of catching a disease.

It's not the fear of catching a disease; it's the Government urging of not traveling and to stay at home. There's a strong argument that it would be covered (in my opinion).


.

 

[VacationForever]

It's not the fear of catching a disease; it's the Government urging of not traveling and stay at home. There's a strong argument that it would be covered (in my opinion).


.

So far I am only reading posts where travel insurance claims have been unsuccessful. There are many of us who buy Marriott travel insurance. If someone is successful in claiming, we want to hear about it for sure.

 

[amy241]

This is really too bad, however if you had the Travel Insurance that Marriott offers then your $2,500 would have all been covered for you....



.

I had no idea that would have covered maintenance fees. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[dioxide45]

We may have to look at the scale of the issue. WSJ is just one property. With COVID-19 it affects every resort and both Vistana and MVC cannot make exception as the repercussion of allowing cancellations with no restrictions can cripple the next 2 years of reservations.

But what percentage of people are cancelling now? 10%, 20%? Do we even know. Surely there will still be people traveling. If it is 10%, then that is probably about the equivalent of a single resort and comparable to WSJ?

If we look at the numbers, based on 4Q19, they sold $390M. They say that they always want to have a pipeline of 12-18 months in inventory. If I work the numbers at $12 per point as an average sales price (could be lower, could be higher, but probably around there), it means that they are holding on average about 16,000 weeks in sales for inventory at any given time if you consider a week is worth 3,000 points. According to their brand facts sheet, they manager 13,000 villas. So if 100% of the people cancelled, they could only offer up inventory to cover a week and a half, but not everyone is cancelling.

Looking at this, perhaps the scale (if we knew the percentages of people cancelling) is different than WSJ, but remember Marriott didn't do anything for owners or guests booked at Frenchman's Cove or the Ritz Carlton but Vistana did by allowing owners to deposit full unrestricted (no flex) trading power in to II, bank their StarOptions or reserve using their SOs as another resort. As far as I know, those SOs were unrestricted even for late cancellations.

Another problem is that Marriott continues to offer a very ineffective insurance product. Their product didn't cover many owners from Maria and Irma who had their reservations cancelled because the resort was closed months after the hurricane. Owners can't take advantage now of the insurance product because it doesn't cover fear of travel.

It seems that this time, the only impacted owners are those that have a weeks or points based reservation inside 60 days. Points owners can cancel the points reservation and get the 120 day Holding Account points to be used by year end. Weeks owners can only deposit in II and get a flex restricted deposit.

In reality, this may or may not work for some people, but it really is better than nothing like those owners in HHI or USVI got. Perhaps they could have kept the 60 day restriction on the Holding Account points but let owners bank them to 2021 if they wish, really at 60 days, people are just picking up scraps, some nice scraps, but leftovers nonetheless.

In the end Marriott can decide if it wants to be a charity or not. I am not necessarily knocking them for it, but just saying I don't think they are always doing right for their owners, especially when you compare them to other companies out there. Sure, it all will impact the other owners in the end with a bottleneck of reservations, but other owners may not mind and are probably more charitable than Marriott. Willing to help out their fellow man/woman by dealing with the reservation pains that may come over the next year because of the current issue.

 

[Steve Fatula]

We are in the same boat. We bought a week at MKO last year with usage to begin this year. We have never even used it yet - that hurts. We has to cancel our May 2nd arrival and all we got was a late deposit into II. That’s not even worth the $2500 in maintenance fees we paid IMHO.

A bit of bad luck for sure. I've been an owner for 20 years, and have never had this happen, so, not usual circumstances. I can't imagine it being the first year.

 

[tf2275]

I have read the back and forth positions re giving some relief to weeks owners. We are Maui (MMO) owners and have four owner weeks booked for family during the next two weeks. Information about the virus spread in Hawaii and restrictions on travel and using MMO resort (no activities, no restaurants, no gym, no kids' play area, no hot tubs, etc; strong likelihood of no pools) has been disseminated only in the last week at most. Generally, anyone who has a week reservation starting May 15th or later can cancel and rebook later with no loss even if the virus curfews continue

US citizens who canceled up to one week ago had some "discretion" because no travel restrictions/mandatory service closings/resort limitations existed at that time. As of today, there is really no discretion despite Marriott's false claim of "business as usual." Similar to Florida, the beaches may be closed shortly. Similar to NY & California, all businesses except essential services will likely be closed very soon. Is it "discretionary" when the government may suspend or airlines cancel flights home? Would any reasonable senior or family fly to Hawaii under the current and likely circumstances?

The "no cancellation" policy has the biggest negative effect on weeks booked now and for the next 60 days (1/6 of the calendar year). MVC does have an inventory of unused weeks (weeks not booked or rented to end of 2020). Yes, there are owners who have not yet booked weeks for 2020 (certainly very few at MMO). Yes, MVC is required to pay MF for those weeks. Before concluding it is "fair" for my family to lose $10,000 in MF while MVC pays nothing, I would need to understand how many bookings are cancelled during this 60 days; how and much unused inventory MVC has available. Yes I would be competing with owners who had not yet booked a 2020 week; but would have no priority over them. I understand every resort has desirable seasons (except Hawaii), but I believe there would be inventory at less desirable locations.

There are other options for cancellations during this 60 day window. Allow re-booking and require an additional 50% maintenance fee to assist MVC's loss; allow a conversion to points (or a percentage of points) for a future year, not this year (MVC has unused trust inventory); be granted Bonvoy points which MVC could purchase cheaply.

In the face of most other operators in the travel industry sharing the cost burdens, MVC looks bad. During the remainder of the year when I see MVC resort inventory widely offered on hotel booking webs I will have difficulty remaining a loyal MVC owner (20 years).

 

[TravelAmore]

Please note, Governor of HI has asked visitors NOT to visit the state for the next 30 days. See report of press conference here: https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/...scuss-latest-efforts-stem-spread-coronavirus/

I had a renter scheduled to check-in at Marriott Kaua'i Beach Club on March 29. I've submitted a request to via Marriott's Owner site to cancel the reservation. Since the arrival date (March 29) is so close, the week will be deposited in II.

 

[sea&ski]

We were a "0 day" check in at Mountainside. As we walked in the lobby, Vail canceled the season for skiing. The concierge said a few restaurants around town were closed as of 2pm (we were there at 3:30pm). By the next morning, everything had changed, EVERYTHING was closed. We have no recourse? Marriott should have, because of the general alarm raised on a county, state and national level, turned us away at the check in desk and at least offered some Bonvoy points. You can't tell me they were not aware of what was going on.

 

[jmhpsu93]

I have read the back and forth positions re giving some relief to weeks owners. We are Maui (MMO) owners and have four owner weeks booked for family during the next two weeks. Information about the virus spread in Hawaii and restrictions on travel and using MMO resort (no activities, no restaurants, no gym, no kids' play area, no hot tubs, etc; strong likelihood of no pools) has been disseminated only in the last week at most. Generally, anyone who has a week reservation starting May 15th or later can cancel and rebook later with no loss even if the virus curfews continue

US citizens who canceled up to one week ago had some "discretion" because no travel restrictions/mandatory service closings/resort limitations existed at that time. As of today, there is really no discretion despite Marriott's false claim of "business as usual." Similar to Florida, the beaches may be closed shortly. Similar to NY & California, all businesses except essential services will likely be closed very soon. Is it "discretionary" when the government may suspend or airlines cancel flights home? Would any reasonable senior or family fly to Hawaii under the current and likely circumstances?

The "no cancellation" policy has the biggest negative effect on weeks booked now and for the next 60 days (1/6 of the calendar year). MVC does have an inventory of unused weeks (weeks not booked or rented to end of 2020). Yes, there are owners who have not yet booked weeks for 2020 (certainly very few at MMO). Yes, MVC is required to pay MF for those weeks. Before concluding it is "fair" for my family to lose $10,000 in MF while MVC pays nothing, I would need to understand how many bookings are cancelled during this 60 days; how and much unused inventory MVC has available. Yes I would be competing with owners who had not yet booked a 2020 week; but would have no priority over them. I understand every resort has desirable seasons (except Hawaii), but I believe there would be inventory at less desirable locations.

There are other options for cancellations during this 60 day window. Allow re-booking and require an additional 50% maintenance fee to assist MVC's loss; allow a conversion to points (or a percentage of points) for a future year, not this year (MVC has unused trust inventory); be granted Bonvoy points which MVC could purchase cheaply.

In the face of most other operators in the travel industry sharing the cost burdens, MVC looks bad. During the remainder of the year when I see MVC resort inventory widely offered on hotel booking webs I will have difficulty remaining a loyal MVC owner (20 years).

This pretty much sums up how I feel. As I've noted above in one of the merged threads I have NOT been negatively impacted by this, other than having to move our Easter break week II trade to June, which was pretty painless and II was good about extending my e-plus out a couple of weeks. I probably even made money out of it as our Southwest flights were a ton cheaper.

Optics and emotions are really important right now. When you can see Marriott has inventory AT THIS MOMENT that they regularly rent on Marriott.com, or the discount resellers, or offer for $400/week on II getaways, then have hundreds of owners who are going to be out thousands of dollars, the optics are really bad.

Both my gym and yoga stuido are closed - they are scrambling to offer online versions of their classes. My car dealer and my mechanic are offering to pick up and deliver cars for service. Even the greediest snakes of corporations, the airlines, are making accommodations to share in the burden of this unprecedented event. Everyone's bottom line is going to be hit this year - individuals, small businesses, corporations. The tone deaf "business as usual, our pools are open!" email we got last week just really rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[jmhpsu93]

Another note : I get it that this whole "wah, I lost my $5K vacation!!!" whining here is relatively tone deaf relative to the impact of this on people who run small businesses and those that work there, especialy in the service industry.

 

[amy241]

A bit of bad luck for sure. I've been an owner for 20 years, and have never had this happen, so, not usual circumstances. I can't imagine it being the first year.

I am totally down in the dumps about it. We were going to 3 different islands and had a total of 7 air segments booked for this trip from Florida.

I understand Gov. Ige has now asked that no one visit Hawaii for the next 30 days:

Ige urges visitors to stay away for 30 days; all non-essential state workers to stay home

The governor issued a host of new orders and guidelines, directing non-essential state workers to stay home and asking visitors to stay away.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com