MARRIOTT / CORONAVIRUS [MERGED]

[VacationForever]

We saw this coming in January and made the decision to cancel our cruises and also our 12-night MKO April-May reservation. We lost our non-refundable cruise deposits but it ensure that we did not need to make final payment on the cruises. With MVC points we avoided having them stuck in a holding point account. I cancelled our air tickets and paid to redeposit my airline miles.

We don't like to make decision late and all the implications that come with it. If we had cancelled now instead of back in January, we would have avoided paying redeposit fees for our airline miles. We did not foresee what the cruise company would do if it turned bad and we would rather lose our deposit than to lose thousands more when we cancel late.

Right now we are staying home and eyeing our September trip and will decide by June as to whether to cancel it.

 

[pspercy]

You're missing my point. I am aware of the cancellation rules. What I'm saying is that in situations like present Marriott should show some flexibility. I won't be cancelling because I have to for some personal reason, it'll be because a national emergency has been declared.
Other Timeshare companies have shown some, why can't Marriott?

 

[VacationForever]

You're missing my point. I am aware of the cancellation rules. What I'm saying is that in situations like present Marriott should show some flexibility. I won't be cancelling because I have to for some personal reason, it'll be because a national emergency has been declared.
Other Timeshare companies have shown some, why can't Marriott?

MVC does not own the inventory. Owners do. MVC cannot give away something which they do not have.

 

[sportsfan1]

You're missing my point. I am aware of the cancellation rules. What I'm saying is that in situations like present Marriott should show some flexibility. I won't be cancelling because I have to for some personal reason, it'll be because a national emergency has been declared.
Other Timeshare companies have shown some, why can't Marriott?

That's exactly right. I have 16 days until my trip. I'm making the bet that a national emergency will be declared with the hope that Marriott will then make some concessions. If not, then I'll figure it out from there.

 

[pspercy]

I am not asking them to give away anything. Just to amend or suspend the cancellation rules such that late cancellations result in return of dp to regular account like they would be for >60 day cancellations.


https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/h...h-16/287-a1ee42b9-51dc-4ee8-af15-0b594467b191

 

[VacationForever]

I am not asking them to give away anything. Just to amend or suspend the cancellation rules such that late cancellations result in return of dp to regular account like they would be for >60 day cancellations.


https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/h...h-16/287-a1ee42b9-51dc-4ee8-af15-0b594467b191

All cancelled reservations result in empty units. By removing the restrictions means that it causes the issue of creating more demand than supply of units for reservations that are further out. Holding point account is meant to solve the demand vs. supply issue in that if the rooms are still available closer to travel dates, it means that the demand of those rooms are much lower than supply.

 

[gln60]

The "new" policy only benefits you by doubling the amount of time before your time you can use them, it's not worse. Holding was always reservations within 60 days, always. They took nothing away. You were never able to bank holding account points.

100% Correct

 

[1Kflyerguy]

I am not asking them to give away anything. Just to amend or suspend the cancellation rules such that late cancellations result in return of dp to regular account like they would be for >60 day cancellations.


https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/h...h-16/287-a1ee42b9-51dc-4ee8-af15-0b594467b191

I am in agreement, while i certainly understand the inventory issues allowing some flexibility may create, i think the hard line stance MVC is taking is the wrong approach.

I have a trip to Hawaii for May, i have not yet cancelled but at this point its not unreasonable to expect the government shelter in place order will still be in effect. I now need to figure out the Travel insurance to see if i am better canceling and taking the holding account or try for reimbursement.

 

[Dean]

I think people need to understand what they've committed to with a timeshare. A timeshare is nothing more than a shared ownership with other members where they hire a company to manage it. This is true with each MVC resort and with Trust points. DC points is just an add on to the underlying resort ownership and is technically an exchange not that much different that II or RCI. Any additional flexibility they offer is at the expense of the membership as a whole. If there is a bunch of unused member owned inventory that is going to sit empty it's reasonable to give it to others that can use it. But they can't generate inventory out of thin air later and anything one can use later under any flexibility reduces inventory for other members who would normally use that inventory. The idea that this is some big company holding back inventory that they should simply give to those affected is not understanding how the system works or worse, only caring about themselves. IMO allowing "free" cancelations and the holding account flexibility is reasonable. Allowing an extra year to use points in holding account that could have been banked is reasonable but a stretch, allowing banking of points that are set to expire because they've already been banked I believe is unreasonable. Effectively when one says MVC should give them more beyond the rules they're telling the other members they should subsidize their situation.

 

[jmhpsu93]

I think people need to understand what they've committed to with a timeshare. A timeshare is nothing more than a shared ownership with other members where they hire a company to manage it. This is true with each MVC resort and with Trust points. DC points is just an add on to the underlying resort ownership and is technically an exchange not that much different that II or RCI. Any additional flexibility they offer is at the expense of the membership as a whole. If there is a bunch of unused member owned inventory that is going to sit empty it's reasonable to give it to others that can use it. But they can't generate inventory out of thin air later and anything one can use later under any flexibility reduces inventory for other members who would normally use that inventory. The idea that this is some big company holding back inventory that they should simply give to those affected is not understanding how the system works or worse, only caring about themselves. IMO allowing "free" cancelations and the holding account flexibility is reasonable. Allowing an extra year to use points in holding account that could have been banked is reasonable but a stretch, allowing banking of points that are set to expire because they've already been banked I believe is unreasonable. Effectively when one says MVC should give them more beyond the rules they're telling the other members they should subsidize their situation.

Except that the company we've "hired" to manage it does not manage it for the benefit of the owners, only for the benefit of VAC. Oh, they also own inventory, too.

I agree that there is finite limit on what can be done, but as I've said earlier MVC could make the decision to take care of long-term ownership vs. short-term cash rentals by freeing up inventory they own (at the expense of short-term profit, which literally THOUSANDS of other businesses, including publicly-traded ones, are doing right now) to help owners out.

 

[markhs]

I have reservations for Marbella Spain in September and I expect the virus to have run its course by that time. However, I'll cancel my reservation in late May or if people are still getting infected in Spain. This way I can meet the deadline for banking my points.

 

[Dean]

Except that the company we've "hired" to manage it does not manage it for the benefit of the owners, only for the benefit of VAC. Oh, they also own inventory, too.

I agree that there is finite limit on what can be done, but as I've said earlier MVC could make the decision to take care of long-term ownership vs. short-term cash rentals by freeing up inventory they own (at the expense of short-term profit, which literally THOUSANDS of other businesses, including publicly-traded ones, are doing right now) to help owners out.

They are losing also. While I don't have a problem with them donating time they own, I think it's unreasonable to expect them to do so. IMO the management is for what members own, the rest is a separate issue. The waiver of cancelation fees, allowing short term II deposits and the flexibility on holding accounts points is a lot.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Dean has it right. Everyone is going to lose in this situation, that's just the way it is. I think MVCI has offered a decent compromise. No one is happy their plans have perhaps been ruined. But no one is happy the virus came here either. We all feel the pain. I know non timeshare people who have lost everything for a prepaid trip with no insurance. We are fortunate to be in the position we are in, though it is not ideal necessarily.

 

[taxare]

No they haven’t. They did shut down the sauna and hot tubs today. I was surprised they were still open...

 

[dioxide45]

We saw this coming in January and made the decision to cancel our cruises and also our 12-night MKO April-May reservation. We lost our non-refundable cruise deposits but it ensure that we did not need to make final payment on the cruises. With MVC points we avoided having them stuck in a holding point account. I cancelled our air tickets and paid to redeposit my airline miles.

Your whole cruise deposit may not be lost? Only a couple lines have non-refundable deposits and with those you usually pay a penalty amount ($100 per person) and the remainder is valid as a future cruise credit. We have a similar problem coming up, except our cruise deposit is in the form of an NCL CruiseNext certificates. Our problem is that our $1400 airfare is already paid to AA and if they extend their no change fees through August, we may be able to salvage something. The problem is that we booked our airfare in December. meaning would would have to use $1400 in airfare by December 2020. Not very likely. We will also have some Southwest credit to use up as well by January.

Another problem many companies will have in 2020 is a heavy year end load of vacation requests. With many people cancelling spring and summer vacations, it means they will want to take all their vacation at year end. We will probably fall in to that category this year. Though it has actually been the norm for us the past couple years.

I think people need to understand what they've committed to with a timeshare. A timeshare is nothing more than a shared ownership with other members where they hire a company to manage it. This is true with each MVC resort and with Trust points. DC points is just an add on to the underlying resort ownership and is technically an exchange not that much different that II or RCI. Any additional flexibility they offer is at the expense of the membership as a whole. If there is a bunch of unused member owned inventory that is going to sit empty it's reasonable to give it to others that can use it. But they can't generate inventory out of thin air later and anything one can use later under any flexibility reduces inventory for other members who would normally use that inventory. The idea that this is some big company holding back inventory that they should simply give to those affected is not understanding how the system works or worse, only caring about themselves. IMO allowing "free" cancelations and the holding account flexibility is reasonable. Allowing an extra year to use points in holding account that could have been banked is reasonable but a stretch, allowing banking of points that are set to expire because they've already been banked I believe is unreasonable. Effectively when one says MVC should give them more beyond the rules they're telling the other members they should subsidize their situation.

I would agree. There is only a limited supply and by over extending the demand and allowing extended banking and such, it would create a big bottleneck down the road. I would like to think that Marriott would extend their owned inventory to owners, but it isn't expected. Though if they don't, it does truly shows what they think of their owner base. At some point you have to put your owners ahead of your bottom line. Sure the investors may not be happy, but is this really the time to worry about your investors? They have already taken a huge loss, I am sure a few more dollars won't hurt them.

Though, in reality, how is a timeshare any different than a vacation home. If you couldn't go to your vacation home over the summer because of travel restrictions, who are you going to go back to for a refund? You can't get money back from the mortgage company or tax man. So I do see it both ways.

 

[dioxide45]

We have an II exchange in to Oceana Palms for May. A retrade since we decided not to go to Newport Coast. Will be interested to see if they close the pools. I will also be interested to see if they close the pools or what else they do to keep people apart since the footprint there is so small. Though I suspect the resort won't be at 100% capacity anyway.

I am surprised they closed the hot tubs. I guess it is because they are smaller and people would be close together. The chlorine should inactivate the virus otherwise.

 

[csalter2]

The following is a response from Marriott to an owner who questioned Marriott’s position on handling cancellations during this crisis. I have posted the letter to Marriott and then Marriott’s response (in bold) to him. This was shared on one of the Marriott Owner Facebook pages.

Dear Marriott Vacations Worldwide,

I have a question/recommendation?

In lieu of the #Covid19 virus break out, and the need to
#Flattenthecurve, not spreading the virus, stay at home.

We do not wish to spread the virus to the County of Maui, that being said we do not understand why MVC have not yet waved the reservation cancel re-depositing the Destination Points into a Holding Account less than 60 days Policy?

The hard cold facts are that we have had that happen in the past and it is horrible if not impossible to recover from.

Furthermore, if thousands, tens of thousands of Marriott vacation owners are going to be canceling and re-depositing their destination points, you’re talking about multiplying tens of thousands of people trying to rebook a vacation of days, week, and weeks inside of a future 120 day window, over the phone, That’s going to be ridiculous, if not impossible!

Can I really be the only person who can foresee this?

So in closing, we are looking for guidance and direction from one of if not the largest vacation owners organizations in the world to help us not spread this virus in a time of need in assisting us protecting future vacations and not tying up the phone lines in the future as they are currently being flooded with phone calls just to cancel and no one can get through for hours if not days when the automated system does not prompt you to be called back!

Thank you in advance for your cooperation and anticipated return correspondence.

Please have a blessed day, may you and yours be safe in this time of never before seen uncertainty.

... we’ll see what happens, everyone else stay safe & be Blessed ✌


Thank you for reaching out to our Customer Advocacy team.

I understand your concerns in traveling at this time. We are in no way advocating that you put yourself or your family at risk to travel for vacation.

Unlike a hotel or airline, Marriott Vacation Club does not own the inventory at our resorts. While we would very much like to give everyone who has been impacted by COVID 19 unrestricted points, it is simply not an option. In order for us to do so, we would have to reduce the available options for our owners next year. One, we can’t do that, and second, I don’t think there are any owners who would be willing to give up their time to compensate another owner’s cancellation. So we are offering the most flexible option with points returned to you in a holding account. This allows you to take advantage of unused inventory that we would normally list for rent. In other words, Marriott Vacation Club is giving back the money that we normally receive to offset the expense of alternative use options so you can plan another vacation and don’t lose your points.

Ensuring you have a safe vacation is, and always will be our primary objective.

Thank you for being a valued owner. We appreciate you being part of the Marriott Vacation Club family.

Sincerely,

Marriott Vacation Club Customer Advocacy

 

[hcarman]

We have a similar problem only we have a reservation with our owner's week. My Mom is close to 80 and not sure she wants to fly cross country with layovers. The policy is even stricter with that and all we can do is a late deposit with Interval. We have had some good vacations through Interval but a late deposit severely limits us since we are working and generally have to plan our trips more than 60 days outs. Also, this is the same policy that they always have as far as I can see. I figured when we got the e-mail from MVCI and there was no mention of cancellation changes this was the case. However, a call to Canyon Villas got us a different answer as they said we could cancel up to 24 hours and rebook for a later date. So a lot of mixed messages. What I find interesting is that they say they can't address since they don't own inventory but somehow our other vacation clubs have sent out e-mails offering to redeposit with no penalty -so not sure I am buying they can't work with owners. They do have plenty of sales inventory. LOL. Contrary to what I may have thought previously, I find that MVCI is less understanding of people's concerns than any of the other properties that we own. We pay a heck of a lot of maintenance fees to not get any use from our property.

 

[Dean]

\I would like to think that Marriott would extend their owned inventory to owners, but it isn't expected. Though if they don't, it does truly shows what they think of their owner base. At some point you have to put your owners ahead of your bottom line. Sure the investors may not be happy, but is this really the time to worry about your investors? They have already taken a huge loss, I am sure a few more dollars won't hurt them.

That's where I'd disagree, if the time will sit empty it'd be nice but as we've said in other situations, it truly is separate inventory. I don't think it's reasonable to make it a measure of their appropriateness or measure of their commitment to the owners.

Though, in reality, how is a timeshare any different than a vacation home. If you couldn't go to your vacation home over the summer because of travel restrictions, who are you going to go back to for a refund? You can't get money back from the mortgage company or tax man. So I do see it both ways.

It's not. For many years we owned a condo in HH, just sold it recently. We had a management company there, actually 2. One to manage the complex and one to handle rentals, cleanings, maintenance and the like. A timeshare is really little to no different, even a points based system.

 

[BreakingAway]

That's where I'd disagree, if the time will sit empty it'd be nice but as we've said in other situations, it truly is separate inventory. I don't think it's reasonable to make it a measure of their appropriateness or measure of their commitment to the owners.

It's not. For many years we owned a condo in HH, just sold it recently. We had a management company there, actually 2. One to manage the complex and one to handle rentals, cleanings, maintenance and the like. A timeshare is really little to no different, even a points based system.

In discussions like this, with several people taking as if they represent the interests of resort developers, I suggest the name of this website be changed from Timeshare User’s Group to Timeshare Developers Group. I am interested in reading some postings from the developer’s position but it really does appear that some posters are trying to get the rest of us to accept the developer’s position. I respect the diversity of opinions and I value this website for the educational information it provides, but every now and then some people take such a hard line position on behalf of developers that I find that they dismiss the opinions of others whose opinion is different.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I am here at Ocean Pointe as well. The pools were still open yesterday but they could be next. At least we will still have the beach. With the kids out of school the next week I went ahead and exchanged into next week and the week after that. I would rather work from here than be stuck at home.

 

[willettjj]

Any noise on beach or restaurant closures?

Thanks.

 

[VacationForever]

In discussions like this, with several people taking as if they represent the interests of resort developers, I suggest the name of this website be changed from Timeshare User’s Group to Timeshare Developers Group. I am interested in reading some postings from the developer’s position but it really does appear that some posters are trying to get the rest of us to accept the developer’s position. I respect the diversity of opinions and I value this website for the educational information it provides, but every now and then some people take such a hard line position on behalf of developers that I find that they dismiss the opinions of others whose opinion is different.

MVC management is taking a stance that treats all owners fairly. If they allow late cancellations to have access to timewise unrestricted inventory, it causes a supply issue to all owners. I do not expect MVC to cough up their own limited inventory to share with all owners. While they have deeper pockets, they too suffer through this period of unoccupied rooms. People expect businesses to "help" them. Businesses have to run profit and loss centers. When businesses go under, the lay persons shrug their shoulders and simply treat them as being badly run.

 

[dioxide45]

That's where I'd disagree, if the time will sit empty it'd be nice but as we've said in other situations, it truly is separate inventory. I don't think it's reasonable to make it a measure of their appropriateness or measure of their commitment to the owners.

I would say it does. Back after Irma and Maria wiped out the Westin St John, Vistana gave all owners their StarOptions for the weeks that they could not use. Many even paid a lower MF due to lower operating costs, but that is just a side note. Vistana purposely gave up its developer owned inventory, or at least some of it, so it could fulfill vacation reservations using those points. I think Vistana had a better commitment to their owners (at least at that time) than Marriott has shown over the years and in those same situations.

 

[VacationForever]

I would say it does. Back after Irma and Maria wiped out the Westin St John, Vistana gave all owners their StarOptions for the weeks that they could not use. Many even paid a lower MF due to lower operating costs, but that is just a side note. Vistana purposely gave up its developer owned inventory, or at least some of it, so it could fulfill vacation reservations using those points. I think Vistana had a better commitment to their owners (at least at that time) than Marriott has shown over the years and in those same situations.

We may have to look at the scale of the issue. WSJ is just one property. With COVID-19 it affects every resort and both Vistana and MVC cannot make exception as the repercussion of allowing cancellations with no restrictions can cripple the next 2 years of reservations.