MARRIOTT / CORONAVIRUS [MERGED]

[jmhpsu93]

How about issuing Bonvoy points in lieu of replacing weeks or DC points, etc. - so essentially opening up the "trade your weeks or DC points for Bonvoy points" option with much fewer restrictions and a later decision date (and included resale owners)? Obviously not a great ROI but better than nothing, and it doesn't directly impact other owners (other than diluting their own Bonvoy point hoard, which devalued so much over the past few years it probably doesn't matter anyway).

 

[Saintsfanfl]

We talked to OP yesterday and were told that pools had closed. Is this not accurate?

Definitely not. The pools were open all day yesterday and are still open today.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

MVC cannot just decide to close any resorts. It is not the same as the hotels where they are dealing with a single entity as an owner. They need permission, which is not going to happen with thousands of timeshare owners. The only way they close is with a government mandate, and they have stated this. I don't think they can do it any other way legally. On paper it probably isn't much different than deciding to close the wholly owned condo building down the street from Ocean Pointe. It can't be done. A government order on the other hand probably could apply to a timeshare ownership building but not a wholly owned condo building. Although what would happen if someone owned 52+ weeks and was staying at a property full time and it was their permanent residence? In that case I don't think they could be legally evicted.

 

[hcarman]

Well, now I am hearing that California is on mandated lockdown. Does this mean the California properties are going to be forced to close? I am getting quite stressed about this upcoming decision as I will effectively lose my points for the year if I don't travel (banked with Use Year ending July 2020), but sounds like at one of the properties everything is shut down anyway so it would just be a room. And then there is the inherent risk to travel which I must consider as losing the points is preferable to getting sick.

I do like the suggestion above of the Bonvoy points. At least that is doing something for the owners who put a lot of their hard earned dollars into these maintenance fees every year.

 

[SueDonJ]

How about issuing Bonvoy points in lieu of replacing weeks or DC points, etc. - so essentially opening up the "trade your weeks or DC points for Bonvoy points" option with much fewer restrictions and a later decision date (and included resale owners)? Obviously not a great ROI but better than nothing, and it doesn't directly impact other owners (other than diluting their own Bonvoy point hoard, which devalued so much over the past few years it probably doesn't matter anyway).

It's a possibility that would involve some kind of a contractual agreement between MVW (the timeshare company) and MI (the hotel company that owns/oversees the Bonvoy program) with MI setting the price/terms for MVW's purchase of enough Bonvoy Points to satisfy the impacted owners. But then who would be expected to cover the unexpected cost to MVW?

 

[jmhpsu93]

It's a possibility that would involve some kind of a contractual agreement between MVW (the timeshare company) and MI (the hotel company that owns/oversees the Bonvoy program) with MI setting the price/terms for MVW's purchase of enough Bonvoy Points to satisfy the impacted owners. But then who would be expected to cover the unexpected cost to MVW?

The MVC sales organization gives these things away - I'm sure they get them REALLY cheap from MI.

As for the cost, it seems that so far out of every organization I do business with MVC is the only one not proactively absorbing some sort of cost related to this worldwide problem, unless you count updating their web site with a cancellation form a cost.

My gym has waived fees for this month and launched online classes. Ditto for my yoga studio. Banks are waiving late fees and interest. Lots of businesses are absorbing shares of this cost.

 

[Dean]

The MVC sales organization gives these things away - I'm sure they get them REALLY cheap from MI.

As for the cost, it seems that so far out of every organization I do business with MVC is the only one not proactively absorbing some sort of cost related to this worldwide problem, unless you count updating their web site with a cancellation form a cost.

My gym has waived fees for this month and launched online classes. Ditto for my yoga studio. Banks are waiving late fees and interest. Lots of businesses are absorbing shares of this cost.

But there is a real cost to these. Even when a resort gives them to you, they are charged a fee on a per point basis. This is not a freebie they just give away. It is less than what you or I pay or value them at though. I've seen info that gave me a sense of what th ever point cost was but I'm not certain. Maybe someone here knows the cost. My sense is somewhere in the range of about 0.4¢ per point give or take. I don't know if that varies for different situations such as sales with larger volume, different hotel segments or MVC resorts directly. This would have to be covered out of the resort budgets in some way. Remember that your Gym didn't do this just to be nice though I'm sure that's part of it. In part they're wanting to make sure they still have customers when this is said and done which is simply one of the reasons where a timeshare (where owners must pay for costs) and a business is inherently different. That's why I mentioned earlier than co-ops and the like were different. IMO a bank waiving fees is likely a lot less than the MVC accommodations when looked at on scale.

 

[CPNY]

The MVC sales organization gives these things away - I'm sure they get them REALLY cheap from MI.

As for the cost, it seems that so far out of every organization I do business with MVC is the only one not proactively absorbing some sort of cost related to this worldwide problem, unless you count updating their web site with a cancellation form a cost.

My gym has waived fees for this month and launched online classes. Ditto for my yoga studio. Banks are waiving late fees and interest. Lots of businesses are absorbing shares of this cost.

Some will defend MVC/Vistana at all costs. I have been guilty of that myself. But In this case I think some are thinking too much from the business side of things and not from the customers side, I was guilty of that in the beginning. A good business puts the customer first. I think in cases like this, which has never happened in anyone one who has ever owned a TS lifetime. With Over 140 countries affected, to be to “business-sighteded” in this case is just wrong. I don’t think owners are looking for everything for free. But a bit more flexibility in policy during a time like this is warranted. More flexibility than what’s in the guidelines is the right thing to do.

I have defended Vistana all too much in the past but In this case, I think that keeping SO restrictions in place is horrendous and it is my view and belief that it is coming from the new Marriott leadership. In the beginning there was confusion from lack of direction and you had reps doing their own thing. I was given unrestricted options and no cancellation fee, while my cousin was given waived fee and restricted options. A week before it was a choice between pay and unrestricted or waived but restrictions on SO. When I did cancel I was given waived on both fee and restrictions. I called back in the next day to cancel a second reservation and to mitigate any different offerings, I stated that both were supposed to be cancelled with no restrictions and no fee and was told that wasn’t the case but they will make an exception. A week later I understand they actually put out communication of their official policy. I’ve also heard some managers willing to remove restrictions if you were going to book far out but within 2020. They didn’t want People to bank options and not attempt to travel in 2020. This to me just means they don’t want a nightmare in 2021 and 2022 with everyone’s points banked. There will be nothing available to book. So why not in a case like this during a national emergency where air travel is shut down, give owners extended usage beyond two years. Catastrophe banking. 4 years to spread out usage but limit the following year banking options. Or offer incentive to put into interval.

 

[jmhpsu93]

This would have to be covered out of the resort budgets in some way.

So you're saying that my maintenance fees that I pay to Grande Vista every year go to pay for Bonvoy points that are offered as sales presentation incentives? I would be REALLY upset if that were the case.

What I am suggesting is that MVC corporate, or the sales budget, or whatever, help subsidize some of the losses to owners. This isn't some one-off hurricane that impacts 1-3 resorts. It's impacting the entire system and owners that didn't have a realistic expectation of risk (unlike those in the hurricane belt) are covering the entirety of the loss simply by the luck of the draw when their occupancy was scheduled.

 

[Dean]

So you're saying that my maintenance fees that I pay to Grande Vista every year go to pay for Bonvoy points that are offered as sales presentation incentives? I would be REALLY upset if that were the case.

What I am suggesting is that MVC corporate, or the sales budget, or whatever, help subsidize some of the losses to owners. This isn't some one-off hurricane that impacts 1-3 resorts. It's impacting the entire system and owners that didn't have a realistic expectation of risk (unlike those in the hurricane belt) are covering the entirety of the loss simply by the luck of the draw when their occupancy was scheduled.

No, I'm saying that it comes out of sales budget when given by sales but it would have to be covered by the resort budgets to be given as a replacement for a week. I assume it does come out of the resort budget, ? management budget, for compensation at the resorts. I understood what you meant, I was simply pointing out you were advocating for something that had a real cost and was not "really cheap" given the scope of the issue. I'm sure they discussed lots of variations and it's likely that some of the ones not chosen would have been better for some. I just feel that the current offer is a LOT from a system standpoint even if it doesn't help a given person. I feel that giving full use points for a later year would be FAR. more than the system can handle. I'm pretty sure it can't handle just the extra points banked appropriately under the rules. Personally I'd love to see a longer time to use the restricted points of maybe through 2021 or even 2022 and the same for canceled weeks but also on a shorter terms subject to availability. It's interesting that many keep advocating MVC should be more because of the size of the problem and IMO, that's the very thing that makes it not workable for them to do a lot more.

 

[SueDonJ]

Some will defend MVC/Vistana at all costs. ...

Are people aware of how infuriating comments like this can be?!?!

TUG has ALWAYS been a timeshare-related site that's known as one of the most informative because of the knowledge that its users know and impart, for no other reason than to provide the unvarnished truth about timeshare ownership. TUG wouldn't work as well as it does if it didn't take into consideration the developers' and managers' sides of the house. And the people who understand that, who take the time to share it, aren't doing it so that you can insult them.

If all you want is pollyanna feel-good support for blasting MVW's response because you don't see them as being good corporate overseers, take your complaints to Facebook and Twitter. Here on TUG it's understood that the relationship between developers/managers and timeshare owners is not one of business/customer but more one of landlord/tenant, and we recognize that they also have an obligation to their shareholders.

Yes, I'm getting aggravated, just like pretty much everyone in the entire world these days. But come on, people, we can discuss all this without the snide and thinly-veiled comments meant to insult some of us.

 

[Steve Fatula]

A few of the posters here are newer users and making a lot of wrong assumptions. If you read a lot of Tug, you will rarely find anyone suggesting you pay developer prices. You will find a lot of advice to rescind your purchases when people ask. As far as I've seen in the many years I've been here, you'll find zero that say take out a loan to buy. Believe me, this is not a defend MVCI at any cost kind of place. And we DO discuss things that are not pro MVCI, all the time! However, it is useful to understand how it works, how it may be different than other timeshares, etc. Being upset is fine, we all are. However, if what some are asking for were done, you'd have way more people upset as they would be unable to use their weeks once things "return to normal". For me, I want MVCI (not Marriott, not the same company) to stay in business, I certainly don't want them to go away and I lose everything. And I do want to use my ownership. Before you think all that MF money goes straight to the bottom line, you should read some of the annual reports resorts have and where the money goes. And I certainly don't want all those workers at MVCI resorts laid off either, many of them have been there a while and are really good in my 20+ year experience. I don't think you can necessarily compare other businesses to MVCI, not the same thing. It is unlikely anyone here completely understands everything about MVCI. But the assumption that all they have to do is this or that is not realistic on many of the posts. It's a simplistic view without considering a myriad of other factors.

My feeling here is that some folks do not understand what TUG is about at all. Ask some questions about how things work, learn, understand, then maybe you will have a slightly (not entirely) different perspective. Being angry is completely understandable. But don't let that cause you stop stop hearing from some of the longtime owners here. There will always be differences of opinion on what is "best". And we all wish there was a perfect solution. Sadly, there will be winners and losers like any change or disruption.

 

[sportsfan1]

I reluctantly decided to deposit my 4/4/20 MGV week into II hoping for an exchange at some point later in the year. Unfortunately, since I am only 15 days from check in date, I am only given a 60 day visibility into potential exchanges - pretty useless if you ask me. At least I have until 2022 to make a change, but I'm still limited to only a 60 day window. That's not doing the right thing if you are Marriott. If you are giving me 2 years to make an exchange, why limit me to 60 day visibility? It's almost is if they'd rather me take the loss than share in it.

 

[SueDonJ]

So you're saying that my maintenance fees that I pay to Grande Vista every year go to pay for Bonvoy points that are offered as sales presentation incentives? I would be REALLY upset if that were the case.

What I am suggesting is that MVC corporate, or the sales budget, or whatever, help subsidize some of the losses to owners. This isn't some one-off hurricane that impacts 1-3 resorts. It's impacting the entire system and owners that didn't have a realistic expectation of risk (unlike those in the hurricane belt) are covering the entirety of the loss simply by the luck of the draw when their occupancy was scheduled.

You may not recognize the scale of the response to the hurricanes - every resort on Hilton Head was impacted for an extended period because MVW forced II users to forfeit their usage so that owners using their Weeks could be placed out of units made uninhabitable at any/all of the 8 resorts and into the units designated for II users (even those who were Marriott owners exchanging their Weeks.) I think a similar thing happened among the Florida resorts but at the time I wasn't paying as close attention to them. That's why that response was so much worse than this one, because it arbitrarily prioritized so that some impacted were made whole while others were not.

I agree with you that this scale is larger, but I also agree with Dean that the larger scale of this event is a huge factor which MVW must consider while responding to this event. Even if they did decide to use their own funds to compensate impacted owners until they run out of funds, how would you have them decide which owners to make whole and which would be just out of luck? They're giving something to all who've been impacted, and maybe could give a little more if mandates/regulations aren't impeding the possibility, but at least they're not taking from some to give to others.

I'll mention, too, that as an owner at two resorts in, "the hurricane belt" as you dubbed it, I knew that Hilton Head hadn't suffered a hurricane for decades prior to the two years in a row that they did. I certainly didn't expect to get walloped twice but I knew it was a consideration and had an idea, from learning about ownership, that it might cost me usage over the life of my ownership. I also knew that neither MVW nor the other owners in the system would be responsible for compensating me those losses. Savvy Florida owners know the same, just as savvy CA owners might have in the back of their mind that earthquakes may impact them, savvy Aruba owners might have in the back of their minds that disruptions in air travel might impact them ...

 

[Dean]

I reluctantly decided to deposit my 4/4/20 MGV week into II hoping for an exchange at some point later in the year. Unfortunately, since I am only 15 days from check in date, I am only given a 60 day visibility into potential exchanges - pretty useless if you ask me. At least I have until 2022 to make a change, but I'm still limited to only a 60 day window. That's not doing the right thing if you are Marriott. If you are giving me 2 years to make an exchange, why limit me to 60 day visibility? It's almost is if they'd rather me take the loss than share in it.

I'm sure this is an II thing, not MVC. These are c/w the normal II rules for late deposits though a little more flexible. They'll work much like a bonus week where some will find them useless and others get decent exchanges. There will potentially be a fee of course subject to the normal fees for the account. The reason I'm sure is that II wants you to have limitations and to not compete head to head to normal deposits.

 

[jmhpsu93]

I'm sure this is an II thing, not MVC. These are c/w the normal II rules for late deposits though a little more flexible. They'll work much like a bonus week where some will find them useless and others get decent exchanges. There will potentially be a fee of course subject to the normal fees for the account. The reason I'm sure is that II wants you to have limitations and to not compete head to head to normal deposits.

Agree, probably not an MVC thing (and clearly I am no MVC apologist right now ).

You can always call, too, if you have something specific in mind. I moved an April reservation to June outside the 59 window without any additional fees. Just don't expect Hawaii during whale season or other high demand resort weeks.

 

[CPNY]

Are people aware of how infuriating comments like this can be?!?!

TUG has ALWAYS been a timeshare-related site that's known as one of the most informative because of the knowledge that its users know and impart, for no other reason than to provide the unvarnished truth about timeshare ownership. TUG wouldn't work as well as it does if it didn't take into consideration the developers' and managers' sides of the house. And the people who understand that, who take the time to share it, aren't doing it so that you can insult them.

If all you want is pollyanna feel-good support for blasting MVW's response because you don't see them as being good corporate overseers, take your complaints to Facebook and Twitter. Here on TUG it's understood that the relationship between developers/managers and timeshare owners is not one of business/customer but more one of landlord/tenant, and we recognize that they also have an obligation to their shareholders.

Yes, I'm getting aggravated, just like pretty much everyone in the entire world these days. But come on, people, we can discuss all this without the snide and thinly-veiled comments meant to insult some of us.

I’m sorry you are upset by that, however I’m not sure where the snide comment is. Especially since I have not read this entire thread so I am not sure who has commented what. That comment also included myself as someone who’s always defending vistana. At first I had a business sighted approach to this whole situation, figuring out why they may not want to ease cancellation policies as it relates to ownership usage and what is good for the business. But as the situation around the globe changed so did my view, as did most people and businesses.

Not sure if you read my post on my rental cancellation dilemma. I could have taken the approach of “sorry, you signed a contract and agreed to it’s no cancellation policy”. But caring about the renter (my tenant), I decided to provide an alternative. Which was to find another date of travel. I was lucky to have vistana waive the restrictions in order to book that far out. See how I operated in that situation? I offered something that would benefit my renter. All people are asking is that they provide something that would benefit their owners. Some who have paid tens of thousands of dollars. It’s really not much to ask.

It’s ok that we differ in our views. But I do ask in the open forum to please refrain from accusing me of posting a “snide and thinly-veiled comment”, especially when I’m just replying to a poster who was voicing their frustration with people here like myself who have come to the defense of the “landlord” many many times in the past.

 

[Dean]

I personally took the comment of "Some will defend MVC/Vistana at all costs" as inappropriate as offensive. Since when is believing that following the rules is inappropriate, if that's so, fair warning that much of what I post will fall into that category.

 

[CPNY]

I personally took the comment of "Some will defend MVC/Vistana at all costs" as inappropriate as offensive. Since when is believing that following the rules is inappropriate, if that's so, fair warning that much of what I post will fall into that category.

I’m sorry you feel that way as that was not my intent. I have amended the post to its intended meaning of the phrase to include myself in there. Since I’m always rallying behind Vistana. I do appreciate you offering your POV after the fact. Thank you.

edit: I still think restrictions in usage should be removed or an alternative offered across the board within every system, in any way they possibly can.

 

[Steve Fatula]

I reluctantly decided to deposit my 4/4/20 MGV week into II hoping for an exchange at some point later in the year. Unfortunately, since I am only 15 days from check in date, I am only given a 60 day visibility into potential exchanges - pretty useless if you ask me. At least I have until 2022 to make a change, but I'm still limited to only a 60 day window. That's not doing the right thing if you are Marriott. If you are giving me 2 years to make an exchange, why limit me to 60 day visibility? It's almost is if they'd rather me take the loss than share in it.

The idea there is within 60 days it's EXCESS inventory. An exchange is you giving something to get something in return. No one will be able to use your week, it has $0 value bascially. So, you are getting something in return for basically nothing. Nothing stops you exchanging outside of Marriott either.

 

[Dean]

I’m sorry you feel that way as that was not my intent. I have amended the post to its intended meaning of the phrase to include myself in there. Since I’m always rallying behind Vistana. I do appreciate you offering your POV after the fact. Thank you.

edit: I still think restrictions in usage should be removed or an alternative offered across the board within every system, in any way they possibly can.

Thank you, I appreciate your thoughts. I couldn't disagree more on the removal of ALL restrictions but that's what makes the world go around. Here's the reality, most of those points freed up will not be able to be used when and where people would want to use them but under your suggestion there would be just as many points not used that were full use, it'd just be a different set of points.

 

[Videoguy75]

I have owned DVC since the beginning and have appreciated being part of a pretty outstanding TS program. We have stayed at MOC since it opened as a hotel in the '80s. When it converted to TS, we excitedly bought. We totally understood the MVC program was inferior to DVC, but still better than paying the hotel bill every time we went to Maui. Experience proved that out. MVC has been great for us, just not as great as DVC. Do we complain about that? No. We pay less & we expect less. And it still is outstanding.

In 2010, while we greatly preferred the points program of DVC, we were extremely skeptical of MVC switching to points. As it turns out, in our opinion, points has been a wonderful switch, greatly improving MVC - but still not bringing it up to the quality of DVC (surprise, surprise, the extra cost and higher MFs of DVC actually give you something for your money). But we are not surprised and therefore, we are very happy with MVC.

One of the beauties of TUG is that anyone studying it before buying buys with their eyes open. Obviously some posters have poorly studied it, and have never come to understand the true beauty of TS, along with its limitations. TS/DVC/MVC are not what you want them to be, the are what they are. They are what they sell, they are not what the salesmen claim. They are not the perfect dream we might want them to be. But wow, are they wonderful, and are we ever grateful we bought DVC and MVC decades ago (with continuing add ons).

My wife and I were over on Ko'Olina earlier this week, getting a head start on gathering all 26 of our kids and grandkids on Maui for 2 weeks. BIG MF investment for enough points for all of us. LOTS of points/weeks banked, borrowed, rented, etc. Might be the last time we all ended up in the same place at the same time with grandkids now arriving at college age. Like everyone else, we were really sad to cancel it all (we also have an interesting story of the struggle to come home early!). And what in the world will we do with all those holding points? Pretty much impossible to use. But still, our problems are blessed first world problems and just don't measure up to what millions or billions of others are facing with Covid-19.

I don't understand those dumping on MVC (which is in fact all of us - the club members) policies. MVC needs a room for every point and week out there and even if everything changed back to normal, just a couple of weeks of cancellations overloads the system with too much demand. I want a clear path to using my annual ownership next year, and the year after, and the year after.

The obvious is that if MVC cost/MFs are stressing you at this time, you forgot what TUG says, and you have no business owning. But is there more Marriott could do for us? Sure. Maybe make it 180 day holding over 120 (but 120 is SOOOO much better than 60). Maybe extend expiration to 2021 or further. Personally, I expect some additional tweaking as time passes and they better know the dimensions of the virus. Renting is a wonderful perk that I have especially enjoyed with DVC (at least 2x MF), but TS has no obligation to bail us out on that one, especially when there are such great direct owner issues at this time.

For now, yesterday I booked 6 two bedrooms in Branson for the 4th of July. Used about 1/3 of our holding points. Wonder if we will get to go to Branson? Wonder where we will book the rest. I am waiting for ideas & availability from the kids.

One of my kids just pointed that we did get some value for what appears to be lost points. Everyone has been excited for months anticipating this trip, and that anticipating has a great value of it own. I like that attitude. Just praying this all passes quickly and that all can resolve all the issues in their lives quickly.

 

[Steve Fatula]

For now, yesterday I booked 6 two bedrooms in Branson for the 4th of July. Used about 1/3 of our holding points. Wonder if we will get to go to Branson? Wonder where we will book the rest. I am waiting for ideas & availability from the kids.

Your entire post was well said, agree.

Branson is very cheap with points. But we love that place. We'll likely be going there as well assuming things clear up somewhat. It's just a 4 hour drive for us. We will probably stay 2-3 weeks and also still have points left. The appeal will be lessened if it turns out many things are still closed. We like the shows there. The mountain resorts in summer have been another good use in the past for holding points, there's a lot to do in those resorts.

 

[pchung6]

I’m sorry you feel that way as that was not my intent. I have amended the post to its intended meaning of the phrase to include myself in there. Since I’m always rallying behind Vistana. I do appreciate you offering your POV after the fact. Thank you.

edit: I still think restrictions in usage should be removed or an alternative offered across the board within every system, in any way they possibly can.

I though DVC will return all the points with no restriction? But Vistana and MVC will only refund points with restriction. So I agree with you Disney is one step further of caring customers than Marriott/Vistana in this case.

 

[Videoguy75]

I though DVC will return all the points with no restriction? But Vistana and MVC will only refund points with restriction. So I agree with you Disney is one step further of caring customers than Marriott/Vistana in this case.

DVC is returning with no restrictions. As you say, it is "one step further." DVCers pay enough more in MF that they reasonably expect it.