MARRIOTT / CORONAVIRUS [MERGED]

[Dean]

I do so want to be at my beach resort, but if we cannot - I want the option of using the week at a future date. Seems only fair among a GLOBAL PANDEMIC - no?

At the expense of someone else not being able to use their week or points That is effectively what people are saying that feel more liberal options are appropriate. IMO there has to be a balance and I personally do not feel the current additional flexibility is unreasonable. But I'd be OK with 120 day advance options to use a week for the rest of the year. For next year, certainly not.

 

[SueDonJ]

I wonder how many owners whose timeshare usage wasn't impacted/forfeited due to the hurricanes in recent years, contacted Marriott then and offered to give up some of their usage so that those who lost theirs could be better compensated?

 

[sea&ski]

I just checked the Marriott site, all of it's resorts remain open, and we would lose our week if we cancel it. I still had to pay the maintenance fees. I did not buy insurance and don't usually. I'm not so sure insurance would help anyway, unless, God forbid, we actually get sick. I'm surprised at this and extremely disappointed in the lack of Marriott working with it's members due to the increase in cases and everything we hear on the news, hour by hour, regarding a global pandemic. I mean what would it take for them to work with us????

IMHO, Marriott should work a little more with members. If we can't travel for any number of reasons, (i.e. travel bans inside and out of NY - off chance, but who knows during these times) I'd expect them to step up.

They should do the right thing, and so far they are not.....in light of what's priority here right now (health, family and TOILET PAPER!)....this is a back burner type of thing - still very disappointing though.

Just this owners opinion...

Dee

Dee, see my post #255. You hit it on the head, they do not seem to have a plan. I hoped for better from this company.

 

[CPNY]

This is an unprecedented time. Some will cancel and others will go. I feel that those with reservations from mid march maybe through June will be affected. While ALL of the TS developers were caught off guard I feel that some handled the situation better than others. If anything comes out of this I’d hope it would be how to handle WHEN something like this happens again in the future. While we know you can still travel, the country was out into a state of emergency because of a virus. An invisible threat that could potentially end your or someone you infects life.

I think in the case of Vistana, restricting options is a bad move for customers. I understand they don’t want people banking points and flooding the next two years with inventory issues. I’d like to see a catastrophic event scenario where points in these programs can be used passed the typical two year banking period. Maybe that would eliminate any clogs in the inventory pools. I was lucky enough to have my options unrestricted. I also was able to rebook weeks in May and August.

I don’t think people are defending the developer, however being logical you can understand that they have to mitigate their losses as well. The more they lose the more we lose, keep that in mind.

 

[CPNY]

Dee, see my post #255. You hit it on the head, they do not seem to have a plan. I hoped for better from this company.

That’s the issue they were caught off guard. Other systems handled it much better much quicker! They need a better plan in place for when this happens again. Extending week usage for later on down the road will help alleviate any inventory issues. Trying to get people to rebook within a month or two by the end of the year is unrealistic (based on vistana).

 

[DeeCee]

At the expense of someone else not being able to use their week or points That is effectively what people are saying that feel more liberal options are appropriate. IMO there has to be a balance and I personally do not feel the current additional flexibility is unreasonable. But I'd be OK with 120 day advance options to use a week for the rest of the year. For next year, certainly not.

Hmmm, I guess Disney just has a better program. I got my points put back into next year (they were borrowed and usually cannot be returned to original use year), not one word about how it can upset other members usage and no complaints from other members on the boards. I guess I'm just used to a superior more flexible program in times of crisis (or ordinary illness as was the case with my family in February in Disney)

By the way, my week is not a stationery week, it's a week within two seasons. I didn't say I wanted to use it next year, or even put a timeline on it. However, I should most certainly have the option of using it in my next season. Marriott should be the ones to figure out how to accommodate ALL of their members in times of crisis. If a global pandemic isn't a crisis, what is? Whether it be 120 day rule, a 5 year rule or a prorated MF amount. There is most definitely something they could do if they wanted to. The entire world is making accommodations for people, but Marriott can't?

I've been a loyal Marriott customer my entire adult life, but that's up for change at any time, and this most certainly could be the time.

This is my opinion and based on experience with my other timeshare - which doesn't have resorts all over the world and is the most popular vacation destination in the world.

Dee

 

[jstoeber]

Fitness center, pools, marketplace, reef room, bar and grill all still open at Ocean Pointe.

We talked to OP yesterday and were told that pools had closed. Is this not accurate?

 

[dioxide45]

Hmmm, I guess Disney just has a better program. I got my points put back into next year (they were borrowed and usually cannot be returned to original use year), not one word about how it can upset other members usage and no complaints from other members on the boards. I guess I'm just used to a superior more flexible program in times of crisis (or ordinary illness as was the case with my family in February in Disney)

In reality, Marriott could easily do this for borrowed points too. The time isn't lost because of the current situation. I don't exactly know how cancelled reservations with borrowed points works inside of 60 days. Do those normally go back to the use year with a 60 day restriction? I know that outside of 60 days they do go back to the original use year, just not sure about cancellations inside of 60.

In light of the current circumstances, I see no reason why Marriott couldn't provide full use of borrowed points back to the use year. The time is not lost or expired. I don't know if we have seen someone here with this exact situation yet.

 

[Dean]

Hmmm, I guess Disney just has a better program. I got my points put back into next year (they were borrowed and usually cannot be returned to original use year), not one word about how it can upset other members usage and no complaints from other members on the boards. I guess I'm just used to a superior more flexible program in times of crisis (or ordinary illness as was the case with my family in February in Disney)

By the way, my week is not a stationery week, it's a week within two seasons. I didn't say I wanted to use it next year, or even put a timeline on it. However, I should most certainly have the option of using it in my next season. Marriott should be the ones to figure out how to accommodate ALL of their members in times of crisis. If a global pandemic isn't a crisis, what is? Whether it be 120 day rule, a 5 year rule or a prorated MF amount. There is most definitely something they could do if they wanted to. The entire world is making accommodations for people, but Marriott can't?

I've been a loyal Marriott customer my entire adult life, but that's up for change at any time, and this most certainly could be the time.

This is my opinion and based on experience with my other timeshare - which doesn't have resorts all over the world and is the most popular vacation destination in the world.

Dee

Not better, just different. The different setups and size of the system likely make it easier for DVCMC to allow this. It's being reported that DVC is only allowing (last report) unborrowing of points associate with March reservations. Apparently within the day they've put out 3 different versions of this issue and what was last posted isn't what's being reported they go by. Historically they've allowed one to unborrow for Hurricanes but given their back and forth I see that as an acknowledgement of the difficulties that practice entails in this situation. But there are a number of ways to skin the cat that are reasonable variations though I don't see full use MVC points from short notice cancelations being one of those.

 

[dioxide45]

I wonder how many owners whose timeshare usage wasn't impacted/forfeited due to the hurricanes in recent years, contacted Marriott then and offered to give up some of their usage so that those who lost theirs could be better compensated?

I think an earlier post had a better idea of how to handle this. Instead of forcing those late cancellations in to a 120 day checkin before 12/31/2020, why not extend the use much further? Perhaps several years, or make you pick a year of use when you cancel understanding that you can't change your mind later. I think most would understand a checkin date limitation. Perhaps keep it at 120, or make it 180. It is still long after standard reservations open up at 12 months or even single day for regular owners at 10. Owners still get first crack at inventory and those in the unfortunate situation don't lose everything they had. This spreads the additional demand out much further and in the end they are picking up what is essentially leftovers anyway.

This of course only works for points reservations, I have no better option for weeks owners.

 

[Wei339]

I have an owner's week reservation in June at Ko Olina. I am thinking of cancelling and trying to find another time later in the year. I am just wondering if there much inventory left to choose from since the 2020 reservations were open since last year for booking. As well, am I able to view the availability for later this year without having to cancel first or to declare my 2021 use year?

 

[hcarman]

I have never seen Interval have so much inventory for the next few months. So, if you are someone that lives close to a vacation club and doesn't mind that facilities are closed - it might just work out. But later in the year and next when everyone is trying to use the 30 day out or 60 day out flex reservations - that will be the issue.

One of my destination club points reservations is a banked use year ending in July of 2020 (a few months from now). So, if I cancel my reservation for next month and the points go into holding account - does this mean they will only be good until July since that is the end of my use year? Which in effect means there is no way I will be able to use them in time. I am not seeing that MVCI is extending the use year at all or allowing to bank for another year? I know most will have a use year ending at the end of 2020.

 

[DeeCee]

We are week owners with Marriott, points owner with DVC. I don't see why Marriott can't just extend the week into a longer period to use it(much longer period of use as above poster mentions). They are still getting the maintenance fees for this years week, it's a global pandemic, we shouldn't lose the week. They're worldwide and great at what they do, I'm sure they can brain storm a way to help their owners at this time of unusual circumstances.

It just doesn't seem responsible on Marriott's part to leave their resorts open and put their staff and members at further risk during this health crisis. Actually it seems kind of selfish.

 

[SueDonJ]

I think an earlier post had a better idea of how to handle this. Instead of forcing those late cancellations in to a 120 day checkin before 12/31/2020, why not extend the use much further? Perhaps several years, or make you pick a year of use when you cancel understanding that you can't change your mind later. I think most would understand a checkin date limitation. Perhaps keep it at 120, or make it 180. It is still long after standard reservations open up at 12 months or even single day for regular owners at 10. Owners still get first crack at inventory and those in the unfortunate situation don't lose everything they had. This spreads the additional demand out much further and in the end they are picking up what is essentially leftovers anyway.

This of course only works for points reservations, I have no better option for weeks owners.

We are week owners with Marriott, points owner with DVC. I don't see why Marriott can't just extend the week into a longer period to use it(much longer period of use as above poster mentions). They are still getting the maintenance fees for this years week, it's a global pandemic, we shouldn't lose the week. They're worldwide and great at what they do, I'm sure they can brain storm a way to help their owners at this time of unusual circumstances. ...

I wonder if there aren't mandated inventory controls, or controls that they wrote into the governing docs which had to be approved by state/federal authorities, which prevent them from extending the life of Weeks or DC Points beyond the Use Year as defined. I don't know, but it's another something to think about here.

Also something to consider is that they just had a similar situation in recent years with the hurricanes taking out some, but not all, reserved inventory at several Hilton Head Island resorts. (And Florida? I forget.) They and we have no way of knowing how often or where unforeseen events will result in owners not being able to use their reservations - considering that it's happened twice now on a large scale, it seems prudent to limit usage for forfeited reservations to only the current Use Year.

And again, I have to give them credit for not bungling this as badly as they did the situation on Hilton Head Island following the hurricanes, when they prioritized owner reservations (including private rentals) over II reservations (including owners who used II to exchange their owned Weeks) among the undamaged units at several resorts. That was just a mess and I'm glad that this time they're not using an arbitrary prioritization to compensate some and not others. Everybody impacted (Weeks and DC Points) is being allowed the same thing, i.e. less stringent cancelation and Holding Account terms, subject to availability in the current Use Year.

It just doesn't seem responsible on Marriott's part to leave their resorts open and put their staff and members at further risk during this health crisis. Actually it seems kind of selfish.

If history is any indication MVW will follow the directives of local government officials as to whether to shut down. The Town Manager at HHI mentioned yesterday that they won't shut down properties or the public parks/beaches unless the SC governor orders it. I know you're comparing Marriott to DVC here but there are distinct differences between them that result in different solutions - the main one probably being that Disney shut down the parks which have always been the cornerstone for DVC ownership. I'm sure they heard complaints from thousands of owners with reservations who were angry about the resorts remaining open while the parks were shut down, effectively forcing DVC owners to either use or lose their reservations despite not being able to enjoy the entire DVC experience.

***********
Honestly, I'm not easily dismissing the disappointment that this mess has caused owners. But, I don't understand the disregard that some seem to have for the legal inventory constraints and future considerations that MVW is facing, and I understand even less the calls for MF's to be refunded (because MF's don't go into MVW's pocket, they go to the resorts so the bills can be paid and the resorts can remain solvent.)

And once more, where was all this consternation when just two/three years ago a significant number of Marriott owners had to forfeit their usage due to hurricane damage via as unfair a remedy as could have been implemented (and then to add insult to injury, had to pay Special Assessments to cover hurricane repairs?)

 

[brianfox]

There are some portions of the MF that are not going to be paid to anyone.
Take, for instance cleaning staff, laundry, front desk. If a resort is closed and there is no staff, is it not reasonable for some portion of MF to be refunded?
I am reading of Marriott staff (maybe hotels) that are not being laid off but they are being moved to 0 hour status - which means they are neither getting benefits nor are eligible for unemployment benefits.

I don't see this being the same as hurricanes. Travel insurance tended to cover that. Travel insurance not covering this...
HOWEVER, I am reading today that travel insurance companies are being brought before Congress to explain why they are refusing. Hopefully something good may come from that.
I think that they are all going to be sticking to the "we don't insure fear" answer - when that is not the question to begin with. Companies are saying that even if you are prevented from traveling to your destination by government, they will not pay. That is the real question Congress needs to address. It's a gray area that needs to be finally colored in.
Here's another interesting thing: evidently some insurers are calling Coronavirus a "foreseen event" and therefore not covered. I can't begin to understand what that is supposed to mean. I purchased my policy in June of last year. Coronavirus had not escaped from the Wuhan lab at that point.

 

[SueDonJ]

There are some portions of the MF that are not going to be paid to anyone.
Take, for instance cleaning staff, laundry, front desk. If a resort is closed and there is no staff, is it not reasonable for some portion of MF to be refunded?
I am reading of Marriott staff (maybe hotels) that are not being laid off but they are being moved to 0 hour status - which means they are neither getting benefits nor are eligible for unemployment benefits.

I don't see this being the same as hurricanes. Travel insurance tended to cover that. Travel insurance not covering this...

None of the timeshare resorts have closed, and it's the Marriott Int'l hotel company (not the Marriott Vacations Worldwide timeshare company) that announced furloughs earlier this week. The timeshare employees are working so need to be paid.

I'm not comparing the events that caused forfeiture of reservations, but the different responses that MVW implemented.

You make a good point about travel insurance but even if it covers an event, you had to have purchased it in order to collect. Many hadn't ever purchased it prior to the terrible response following the hurricanes - and some will now never go without it because of that response being blasted all over social media.

 

[hcarman]

None of the resorts are closed yet, but when you call and are told that pools, hot tub, gym, activities, and bars and activities in surrounding area are shut - restaurants just take out - isn’t that effectively closed for a property that is a “resort?” Seems like that should at least be clearly posted on MVCI site and guests should receive some form of points credit or compensation for the fact that they are just getting a room. And when all that is closed what are they doing with activities and bar staff? Like a poster mentioned above - budgeted costs will be down in some areas (staffing, energy usage, etc.).
i guess this situation is an argument for why some prefer pay as you go vacations - you are not on the hook for thousands without usage. Most cruises, tours, hotels, airlines, etc. have worked with customers without travel insurance and have credited money or given a year or two credit. Travel insurance really did nothing.

 

[frank808]

I understand that many MVC resorts have closed their onsite bars, restaurants (except carryout), hot tubs and saunas. Has anyone experienced a resort that closed their outdoor pools or fitness centers? These are becoming more important due to closures of fitness centers in many states. It will be difficult to stay healthy and build up resistance without being able to work out.

Mko has closed restraunts, bars, pools, hot tubs, sauna, steam rooms, ice machines and water dispensers. Even cancelled the all you can drink cup. Fiat fiat and the welcome show is closed.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[dioxide45]

I have never seen Interval have so much inventory for the next few months. So, if you are someone that lives close to a vacation club and doesn't mind that facilities are closed - it might just work out.

We are driving distance for pretty much all of the Florida and HHI resorts. We had a late May exchanges in to Grande Vista and Newport Coast Villas. We still have flights booked to CA but retraded our NCV in to Cypress Harbour. After that we kept watching and saw a flood of weeks drop in and retraded both the Grande Vista and Cypress in to Oceana Palms and Lakeshore Reserve. As long as the beached are open on Singer, we will probably go to Oceana Palms and if the Disney parks have reopened we will probably go to Lakeshore. DW's friend is supposed to be flying down from Ohio to visit, but not sure if that will happen.

 

[TXTortoise]

It would be nice to think that the MFs guarantee a minimum level of income, that hotels don’t have, and would allow a larger portion of the staff to remain active, even if not in their normal job.

in a similar vein, would the reduced occupancy and peripheral income reduce or increase MFs for 2021. I really could do without another 7% increase at Maui OC.

 

[Mrs.SLLP]

I'm in NY, on Long Island, Nassau County. We have a cluster of this virus and I am mostly house bound, as I work for a school district and am now working from home. All NY schools are now mandated closed until April 1st so far. Restaurants and bars, theaters, museums closed. So, super serious here, can't even get toilet paper!

That being said....I have my legacy week booked for April 12-19 in Hilton Head. I would be flying Jetblue, but that's not happening, and Jetblue will give me all my money back (no insurance purchased) for a flight on a future date, no penalties.

I just checked the Marriott site, all of it's resorts remain open, and we would lose our week if we cancel it. I still had to pay the maintenance fees. I did not buy insurance and don't usually. I'm not so sure insurance would help anyway, unless, God forbid, we actually get sick. I'm surprised at this and extremely disappointed in the lack of Marriott working with it's members due to the increase in cases and everything we hear on the news, hour by hour, regarding a global pandemic. I mean what would it take for them to work with us????

Anyway, I'm not cancelling the trip. I'm waiting to see what they will do. We can drive - long drive - but we can drive. They did just send an email that some services are closed, as are some local places. IMHO, Marriott should work a little more with members. If we can't travel for any number of reasons, (i.e. travel bans inside and out of NY - off chance, but who knows during these times) I'd expect them to step up. We are also Disney Vacation Club members and were there in February before the _____ hit the fan with the virus. Some of us came down with a stomach virus there and I can't tell you how amazing Disney was in working with us, our points, and even tickets for loss of time in the parks due to getting sick. Second to none - Marriott is a far inferior in it's service to its members. We only own for a few years, but in comparison, well there is no comparison in how well Disney works with it's member and how poorly Marriott has been so far.

They should do the right thing, and so far they are not.....in light of what's priority here right now (health, family and TOILET PAPER!)....this is a back burner type of thing - still very disappointing though.

Just this owners opinion...

Dee

Dee, hello from South Carolina. Hilton Head is beautiful any time you go, but especially in the spring. I sincerely hope you will be able to keep your travel plans. I am also in education, and am seriously considering obtaining the endorsement to teach online permanently once the shut-down ends. That's how much I am enjoying working from home. I am blessed to still receive full pay without cutting into leave time. My husband is concerned about our small business, but I trust God. You are spot-on. The essentials are priority. Many families will face financial hardships because they are now out of work and don't know when or if they will get a regular pay check. Many live on fixed incomes and their budgets will be stretched after stocking up on necessities to get through this serious time. Utility companies are not disconnecting services due to nonpayment and funeral directors are capping the number of mourners who can attend services and in some cases, encouraging live streaming. It is not business as usual for anyone -- except Marriott. People are stressed and fearful. Some are worried that they will not be able to pay their mortgage or keep up their health insurance premiums. Wrangling with MVC should be one of the last things they should have to be concerned about. Vacation should not equate anxiety. Like you, I am stating my opinion as an owner and a consumer. Marriott doesn't need anyone to defend it. They have legal teams and public relations people for that. Who advocates for the consumer? Take care and be well.

 

[Mrs.SLLP]

This is the way Disney has always handled such matters as I've stated in this thread. They allow last minute cancelations, waive the holding period, allow last minute bankings and unborrowing of points. They do not extend borrowed points. DVC is giving nothing, this is born by the other members. MVC is a much larger system and this is a much larger event than a hurricane. Just the normal response for those that cancel and bank will be overwhelming for the system. I don't see any way the system could handle full use points and more flexible banking. Any flexibility in that area would also be born by the other members. Certainly MVC could have made those allowances but they didn't, not right or wrong, just slightly different. I understand the idea that many hands make light work and would generally agree with that principle but I don't think it applies here given the scope of the situation. DVC won't lose much or anything with the resort closings as the members will cover any costs to the system though Disney itself will in other areas as will Marriott. Certainly the sales side (DVD, Marriott, etc) will suffer in all systems as will the employees. Interesting you talk about a corporate bailout like it's already happened but you advocate for additional flexibility that would be tantamount to a bailout. I pay a lot more than you and I'm directly affected on the professional side as well as a physician seeing patients who may have already been exposed but that's a decision I made when I went in to this profession just like I made personal decisions years ago in a former life when I spent 13 years with the Military, 6 & 1/2 on active duty including in Desert Storm.

ETA: Even though historically DVC has allowed people to unborrow points, they are now not allowing that in this situation.

MVC may deposit directly esp if they already have an II account linked to your MVC account. I'd email MVC first but you can call II as well if you want.

Dean, here's the thing: Even before this global pandemic altered life for virtually everyone on the planet, Marriott Vacation Club's "system" was not consumer-oriented. You buy into whatever plan you select and hope you will enjoy happy vacation times forever, and that there are no issues in the future. If you finance your ownership through MVC and encounter a financial hardship due to extended illness or loss of employment, there is no plan in Marriott's "system" to temporarily defer payments. An owner would have to be in foreclosure before he could possibly discuss giving up his deed. These are unpleasant things that no one wants to discuss, of course. However, it is relevant because we use the term "owner" as if there is a relationship of give and take. We bought into Marriott's vacation plan, and it is what it is. That doesn't mean I can't point out my observations through the eyes of a concerned consumer, though. The bottom line is Marriott has done little to acknowledge the frustration of owners during a time that other companies are extending reasonable flexibility. I don't own a Disney timeshare but I am impressed by how it is responding to its members during a world crisis. You shared that you pay more into Marriott than I do. Trust me, I have no desire to compete. Every time I have to make my own bed or take out the trash while on vacation at a Marriott resort I think about our $110,000 plus $6,500 in annual fees and dues. Regardless of what level any of us bought into, we should be able to say with confidence that Marriott has done the best it can by all of us. It has not. By the way, as the wife of a U.S. Army veteran who served 20 years, and the mother of a son who has not been the same since returning from deployment to Iraq, I understand the concept of both personal decisions and sacrifice. Thanks for your service.

 

[pedro47]

Mrs.SLLP, thanks your spouse and your son for their service to our country.

 

[hangloose]

Mko has closed restraunts, bars, pools, hot tubs, sauna, steam rooms, ice machines and water dispensers. Even cancelled the all you can drink cup. Fiat fiat and the welcome show is closed.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Pool is closed at MKO? How about the beaches?

 

[Dean]

Dean, here's the thing: Even before this global pandemic altered life for virtually everyone on the planet, Marriott Vacation Club's "system" was not consumer-oriented. You buy into whatever plan you select and hope you will enjoy happy vacation times forever, and that there are no issues in the future. If you finance your ownership through MVC and encounter a financial hardship due to extended illness or loss of employment, there is no plan in Marriott's "system" to temporarily defer payments. An owner would have to be in foreclosure before he could possibly discuss giving up his deed. These are unpleasant things that no one wants to discuss, of course. However, it is relevant because we use the term "owner" as if there is a relationship of give and take. We bought into Marriott's vacation plan, and it is what it is. That doesn't mean I can't point out my observations through the eyes of a concerned consumer, though. The bottom line is Marriott has done little to acknowledge the frustration of owners during a time that other companies are extending reasonable flexibility. I don't own a Disney timeshare but I am impressed by how it is responding to its members during a world crisis. You shared that you pay more into Marriott than I do. Trust me, I have no desire to compete. Every time I have to make my own bed or take out the trash while on vacation at a Marriott resort I think about our $110,000 plus $6,500 in annual fees and dues. Regardless of what level any of us bought into, we should be able to say with confidence that Marriott has done the best it can by all of us. It has not. By the way, as the wife of a U.S. Army veteran who served 20 years, and the mother of a son who has not been the same since returning from deployment to Iraq, I understand the concept of both personal decisions and sacrifice. Thanks for your service.

Thank you, your husband and your son for all of your service. When I bought timeshares I read the information, understood the rules in place, understood that things could change and I understood I was taking the risks of what might happen on my personal side as well as the ownership. This is my definition of personal responsibility and the size of the issue doesn't change that. Thus even had they offered no flexibility, I don't think it's reasonable to be upset with the system. But I am glad they have offered some relief and even though obviously you disagree and it may or may not help you, IMO, what they've offered is a LOT and about all the system could bear. Are there other decisions they could or should have made for different variations, certainly, nothing will be perfect.