Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[davidbb]

Marriott needs to take care of business

I find this whole matter extremely wrong.

1. Marriott should take care of the entire roof because it was delivered to us faulty. As for the assertion that 43% is fair, I question how much it has cost us so far with repairing water damage over the past years. If you add up all the repair costs, I am sure the Marriott share of roof expenses is a whole lot less than 43%.

2. Marriott is a long term operator of timeshares. How is it possible that proper reserves for upgrades and replacement have not been collected ? Perhaps some reverse accounting needs to be done to figure out what the proper maintenance charges should have been to cover the life expectancy of a roof, a/c, lobby upgrades, etc. What would those charges be and what should Marriott have paid towards them during the sales phase when they paid the majority of the association dues ?

3. Why does the building need $750K in caulking. An independent engineering report needs to be done to determine if the building was properly built according to standards when the 1st unit was sold. Marriott should be responsible for any deficiencies that occurred before that time. The building should have been brought up to 100% of current standards at that sale date.

4. Sales desk in the lobby. The lobby is owned by the owners and now that the building is fully sold the desk should disappear or a proper rent should be paid as of the date of the last unit sold. The board needs to determine that date and bill Marriott accordingly. Perhaps a hefty commission should be paid by Marriott for every sale/resale that happens from that desk ?

5. Dues increases. The increases should not exceed the general rate of inflation on the island. The board should determine from the govt sources what that rate is and that should be the target.

We all know what has happened here. Marriott bought at a cheap price a deficient building. Marriott set the original budgets for dues with 2 things in mind. Keep dues low to encourage sales and to keep the Marriott share low during the sales phase. What needs to happen is an accounting of what has been spent on normal repair/maint for 10yr building vs those expenses that are related to a deficient building and the proper assignment of responsibility. It may take a law suit for this to happen.

DOING THE RIGHT THING IS NEVER EASY OR CHEAP, BUT IT IS ALWAY THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

 

[lovearuba]

ditto

We are feeling the same way. Its really sad and I just dont understand why they just dont fix these things. Its going to get much worse for them, owners are really not going to sit down for this one.

Marksue has been doing a great job keeping this message alive. Thanks

 

[jyork9]

Dear Fellow Aruba Ocean Club Owner:

The Board of Directors is writing you to address a very serious rumor that has recently appeared over the internet. This untrue rumor concerns ongoing issues at the Ocean Club and the Board’s relationship with our management company – Marriott International.

It has been almost 10 years since the Ocean Club opened. As with any high use resort facility located in the hot, humid Caribbean climate, the facility is starting to show signs of its age. As a result, the need for maintenance and repairs has increased over the past several years. While the Board has been faced with a number of challenges related to the aging facility, we have been primarily focused on the replacement of the existing roof. As many of you know all to well, we experience leaks in many parts of the resort during heavy tropical rains. The roof replacement is needed to prevent water intrusion in and damage to the building. We are pleased to report that the roof replacement is on schedule and should be complete in early December. The Board also recognizes and thanks Marriott for contributing its fair share to the necessary repairs.

The Board has been working hand in hand with Marriott to resolve these and other related challenges. In the past year, the relationship between the Board and Marriott has grown stronger because of a renewed sense of cooperation, mutual understanding and improved communications.

The false rumor found on some websites alleges that the relationship between the Board and Marriott has deteriorated to the point that the Board has suggested that owners consider pursuing a class action lawsuit against Marriott.

The Board categorically denies making any such inference. The Board is working collaboratively with our on-site management team and with Marriott. With the arrival of Corey Guest, our own dedicated General Manger, the Board has never been more confident in the staff’s ability to provide the owners the very best vacation experience possible while at the same time, effectively and efficiently managing our property.

The hard work is not yet done… especially with the challenges brought on by hurricane Omar. However, the Board and Marriott are moving forward together to meet those challenges with a sense of mutual respect and cooperation.

Why didn't whoever this is sign your post? I tried to find out who this was posted by, it is just a guest.

 

[marksue]

The board members will not sign the post. Instead they hide and act as if nothing is happening. They removed their email address from the AOC website and hide behind Marriott. If you want their email address let me know as I have them all.

I know there is a letter campaign going on now and many people are sending the board members emails about how furious they are.

Our Maintenance fees went up 35% from last year. The 12 month average inflation through September 2008 was 9.1 % per Central Bank of Aruba. In section 10.3 of the Ocean club governing documents states that an increase in excess of the sum of the inflation index percentage + 7.5% shall not be adopted unless approved by the majority of the members at such duly called meeting.

SO based on the governing document, the max increase we could receive is 16.6% NOT 35%.

So to the board Frank Knox, Stephen Richards, Melissa Pericolosi, Allan Cohen, Mike Reilly when is the scheduled meeting for the owners to vote on the proposed Maintenance fees. By enacting the fees without this meeting is illegal and the fees are not binding since there was no formal vote by the members.

 

[rommanning]

To all Marriott Ocean Club owners. I am not sure if you are aware but you are about to be hit with 2 assessments that could be $1,000 for each of the next 2 years. The reason is Marriott has to completely replace the roof and some of the supports due to poor construction.

How many of you realize that the building was bought by Marriott after it was partially completed? Of course you were never told that. Did you ever wonder why when ever it rained the building flooded? It seems there were problems to the roof from day one and Marriott ignored the problems until they could get the owners to pay a portion of the repairs. Marriott is requiring the Owners to pay a major portion of the repairs. So therefore the roof repair and regular refurbishing projects will costs us additional funds over our already high maintenance.

I have been in touch with the board and have gotten the details of what is taking place. A board member said to me if you find a lawyer who would like to take on a class action suit there would be many people who would be willing to be part of the suit.

I have been in touch with Marriott but they have refused to give me a satisfactory response except to agree to what I have mentioned here.

If you are unhappy about this you should contact customer care. Maybe if enough people speak up Marriott will do the right thing.

Let me know if you are interested in pursuing a class action suit against Marriott.



Mark

I'd be happy to join in.....this not what I signrd up for. This is why I selected Marriott in the first place..........to hopefully avoid a situation like tis in Aruba. I own 2 -2 bedroom units. One @ each Surf and Ocean Club

 

[marksue]

Please send me you email address in a PM. We are in the process of getting 1100 weeks of ownership so that we can call a special meeting to recall the board. In your private message to me please let me know how many weeks you own, your name and email address.

THank you

Mark

 

[marksue]

We Are Still Looking To Get Owners On The List To Recall The Board and change some of the bylaws to make the board more transparent for owners. Please Talk To Your Friends That Own Units And Have Them Send Me Thier Email Address And The Number Of Units They Own.

Thank You All

 

[marksue]

I just got an email from an owner who is in Aruba at this time. It seems there was a special board meeting held last Monday. This meeting was posted at the Ocean Club prior to the meeting. Why were the rest of the owners, who are not in Aruba, not notified of this meeting? How difficult would it have been to post it on the Ocean Club Website? According to Section 6.6 of the Governing Documents “All meetings of the Board of Directors, including special meetings in accordance with section 6.7, shall be open to all members. If the notice is posted only at the Ocean Club then all members have not been notified. Please let me know how this will be dealt with in the future to ensure all owners are aware of the meeting,

What was discussed in this meeting? When will we receive the minutes of this meeting and the general meeting? What is the board hiding from us? Are they trying to keep the owners from being informed or are they trying to hide information from us?

Unfortunately, I am not surprised by the actions of this board. Allan when he was president always kept the owners informed. What have we heard from the new board, nothing but a lame letter from Frank that has not addressed any of the owners issues. And now they don’t want to let owners know of special meetings that have an impact on our financial investments in Aruba.

 

[Dave M]

My personal view, as stated in a different way much earlier in this thread, is that you are overreacting and hurting your case by slamming the Board regularly instead of focusing on the single issue that you most want to have addressed and corrected (financially).

Corporate (and other entity) boards meet often without notifying all investors or owners, unless required to do so by the Bylaws, such as is normally the case for an annual meeting. Unless the governing documents for your resort have additional language regarding notifying ALL owners in advance, there is no requirement to do so. Requiring that Board meetings be open is much different from requiring that all owners be notified of a Board meeting. Also, notifying all owners might well take enough time that an emergency meeting might have to be delayed beyond when some urgent action needs to be taken.

My guess is that one or more board members were hooked into the meeting via phone so that the meeting could be held expeditiously. As you stated, there was a notice posted. Thus, any owner who was at the resort could have attended. If one of those happened to be a TUGger, there would likely have been a post here about what happened in the meeting. With such a notice being posted, even though the notifications didn't meet your personal requirements, how is the Board "hiding" info from you?

Your crusade is laudable. But don't lose sight of your objective.

 

[Dave M]

Adding...

None of the Marriott resorts at which I own notify owners in advance of all Board meetings that will be held. The only notice I get is for the annual meeting. Does that mean those boards are trying to hide something from owners? I don't think so.

 

[marksue]

Dave, I understand what you are saying, but the governing documents state all meetings are to be open for all owners. How can it be open to all owners if we are not notified?

The board has been unresponsive to many members who have written to them. I can tell you I have hundreds of emails from people who have been trying to reach the board and not heard one word. I have been to the owners meeting and hard questions asked by owners were ignored, so it seems obvious we are not being told everything.

I am more than willing to speak with you privately, but I do believe, based on experience, there is a lack of information being shared with owners.

 

[marksue]

Open letter to the AOC Board

The following letter has been sent earlier this week to the board of the Aruba Ocean Club and the Customer Care office of MVCI.

To all Board members,

I am sure you are all aware how I and other owners feel in regards to the outrageous fees you are trying to charge owners of the Ocean Club as well as your siding with Marriott on the costs of bringing the Ocean Club up to the standard it should have been when it was selling the units.

1) As for the increase in our annual fees. For the 1 bedroom units the increase amounts to 27%, this does not include the reserve fund fees. Based on the governing document you may increase the fees by 7.5% above the inflation rate, (which is an annualized 9.1%) without a vote by the owners. I am asking to know when that vote will occur, since you have exceeded the allowed percentage.

2) Marriott sold to all of us a defective building, it has leaked since day , due to a poor roof and lack of waterproofing of the building. Why is it now we are saying the roof needs to be replaced, when it should have been replaced prior to final construction? Why is Marriott not paying for this replacement since they did not fully disclose to the owners what they were buying? Why is Marriott refusing to pay for the entire roof?

3) Why have we the owners had to foot the bill since day 1 for all the repairs due to do the roof and lack of waterproofing of the building? Please provide to all of us a detail list of expenses the owners have incurred due to these issues.

4) Why is it the Ocean Club was the only building to sustain such extensive damage due to TS Omar? The Surf Club and hotel had no such damage.

5) You are representatives of the owners, yet you fail to respond to questions, emails and letters sent to you. This was not the way things were handled when Allan was President. Why are you not representing owners in the discussions with Marriott. I was at the owners meeting and there was a lack of respect to the owners and it was clear that it was a meeting supporting Marriott and not the owners.

6) Why have we not received fair payment for the space leased by Marriott and other vendors. Why does Marriott feel they do not have to pay a fair price for renting space in the Ocean Club. We the owners deserve to see the accounting of all payments by Marriott and the other vendors. Also a report showing how the revenues we are receiving compare to the average for other similar resorts.

7) Knowing we were having financial problems why would we increase our expenses by hiring a dedicated GM versus continuing to share with the Surf Club? This was not a fiscally responsible move and we should look to going back and utilizing a shared resource.

8) I am recommending that a group of owners work with the board to negotiate a fair and equitable agreement with Marriott for the roof costs, payment back to the Ocean Club for the repair work paid for by owners, and fair compensation for use of Ocean Club space.

I do believe that if the above items are addressed and resolved in an equitable way that the fees and assessments we are being asked to pay can and will be reduced.

I would hope we the owners will get the courtesy we deserve, having elected you to the board, with answers and actions to the questions listed above.

An owner of multiple units who is angry.

Mark

 

[Dave M]

How can it be open to all owners if we are not notified?

See my two most recent posts for the answer.

By comparison, many states and municipalities have "open meeting" laws, requiring that meetings of various government bodies be open to all. However, it would be a very unusual law that would require all residents, voters or property owners (or choose your own category) to be notified about every such meeting that is going to be held.

The same is true in the corporate and HOA world. Homeowners' boards have many meetings, some regularly scheduled and some on short notice (often via phone hookup). It would be rare for a homeowner's Board - at least in the Marriott family of resorts - to notify all owners of every such meeting. Just because you want such advance notice doesn't make it wrong for them not to give you the advance notice.

That's an example of why I think you're missing the mark on your target. The problem isn't with me. It's that you may lose or may have lost credibility with Marriott and or the HOA board in your hopes of getting them to be responsive. It's been made clear here many times that Marriott has people - some key people - that check in on this forum. In that regard, I believe someone who complains about a specific problem, explains good reasons for the problem and has a specific recommendation for a solution will be taken much more seriously than someone who appears to take every opportunity to blast the very people that you hope will eventually help you.

I have interrupted your thread too much already. I'll back away again.

 

[marksue]

Dave,

I am going by the governing document section 6.6 for the Aruba Ocean club. Prior this thread and others there were many attempts to speak with marriott in regards to the issues posted here. Messages were left, emails were sent and no responses where had from the board or from Marriott. That led to these posts.

Since you are not an owner at the Ocean Club, I am not sure you fully understand the magnitude of the issue and the anger of owners. Like I said I have hundreds of emails and the new MF havent even been mailed yet.

I had to go through Mr. Marriott's office just to get a call with someone from MVCI next week since they have refused to answer emails or phone messages from me and other owners. Do you know how many owners have written to Frank and not gotten a response from him? In the past if you sent Allan Cohen an email you got a timely response. You have to wonder what is going on.

If you would have attended the owners meeting and heard Dirk say to an owner, who had questions about the construction and high fees, well then maybe you should just sell, then you would understand the anger from many folks and why we want changes.

I am sure Marriott is watching these posts, but if they really cared about thier name and treating people right then they would reach out as I have asked in numerous posts to the owners. I have suggested many times to have a group of owners work with the board to negotiate a settlement with marriott that is fair and equitalble for the owners.

Marriott has my number and they are free to call me at anytime for a conversation.


There

 

[JimC]

The owners have what appear to be legitimate concerns and clear frustration. But some of your frustration is likely from the approach you all have taken. Accusing the Board of improprieties and threatening legal action is not going to advance your cause in a constructive way. Even if your accusations are true and ultimately there needs to be legal redress of your grievances; opening as you have complicates negotiations.

I am not surprised that the HOA would have meetings on an ad-hoc basis. As Dave mentioned, much governance in any enterprise is done via conference calls and special meetings as issues arise for which management wants guidance or approval of proposed actions. I do not believe posting notice of such meetings on a web-site is necessary. Posting in the resort so those owners on property at the time have the opportunity to attend would be sufficient in my opinion.

I don't know what the release schedule is for maintenance fees. I know that I still have not received my Canyon Villas statement. Granted it would be nice to have all resorts finalized and released at the same time. But there may be practical reasons why that is not done.

I hope you all can resolve this amicably and to your mutual satisfaction.

 

[bogey21]

For Marriott it would be wisefull to weigh out the expense costs versus the negative advertisement.

They probably did this and decided it was to their advantage to screw the owners just like they did when they unilaterally changed their rental and resale programs notwithstanding that they used both as selling points to prospective purchasers.

George

 

[vincenzi]

Marriott Stand Up to Your Good Name

We purchased our units because of the high standards of Marriott. We felt if we did our part as an owner, that Marriott would do their part. The fact that Marriott did not disclose all of the information concerning the defective building is very disturbing and is so contrary to my previous high opinion of them. It is for this very reason that we as owners are having to pay such outrageous fees.Of course, it all comes down to one thing...money. Marriott, how much is your name worth to you? Are you willing to allow many owners who in good faith purchased from you loose their units because they simply can't afford the outrageous fees and assessment? We hope not. We appeal to you to do what is necessary in order to keep your good name and principles you stand for.

 

[wfillion]

Why has this gone so terribly wrong?

First and foremost, I am borrowing another users' login id to post this message as it is a clear indication that I have been notified by this individual concerning the dissention between parties. Having said that, the user who's id I borrowed to post this is not a Marriott owner and yet he is aware of these issues and as so is passing this on to other members and non-members. Good news and good services don't carry nearly as much weight as bad news and bad services. I too have multiple units with Marriott at the Ocean club and at this juncture of our economic crisis both nationally and worldly, I could easily do without the additional outlay of cash. Marriott needs to understand that this is a clear case of correcting, at their expense, those issues associated with the building that is clearly being debated whether they are responsible or not. Why you ask, simple economics... Supply and Demand, if you lower the demand for units (bad publicity) than supply will increase and the overall costs/value will deminish. If a non-Marriott user is well aware of this issue in Aruba than word is spreading rather quickly. I have no problem selling my units (at a discount from what I bought for but, I will avoid paying special assessments and maintance fees) and that will make up the difference for what I sell for. I am not married to Marriott although they presented that buildling like a formal proposal for marriage (a lot of hidden flaws masked by a lot of fluff and excitement). As I work in the real estate business in the US, I am very familiar with just how simple it is for owners to walk away from paying dues, loans, fees with very little recourse from the original or current creditors. This is certainly not my intention however, if they are going to squeeze us owners I will have no problem dumping them and passing on their mode of conduct and responsibility. This is sad as I used to swear to all how great they were. All Marriott needs is a reduction of 20% ownership world wide and their empire will sink. While it doesn't sound so possible think of this, with unemployment reaching record levels, fuel costs still high, people loosing trilliions of dollars in the stock market, credit issues, real estate debacle, etc., time shares are one of the first items owners walk away from when money is tight. Take a look at their stock, in January of 08 it was in the upper 30's, Friday, 11/21/08 it closed at $12.92. I would suggest Marriott do what ever it can to rectify this at their own costs and not pass it along (at any time) to the owners. Maybe this is childish and immature but so is their lack of stepping up to the plate and taking responsibility for issues that cleary were theirs to start with.
I would much rather pass on to potential owners of timeshares a story like this with an ending that gave people a sense of pride and security in owning a Marriott property knowing they stand behind their name.

Please do not respond to me directly as I indicated this is a borrowed id, only respond to the generallity of the paragraph.

 

[Luckybee]

When hubby and I first went to look at the Ocean Club it was still being built. We asked about the structure since the shell had been up for a couple of years ( it was originally to have been a different resort which went belly up) . The first sales rep gave us all the assurances about Marriott not putting their name on a product that wasnt sound, that their engineers had flown in from Florida and thouroughly checked everything etc etc. We didnt buy that year(well we did but rescinded), then bought the next year after we saw the final product. Within a year or 2 the problems began. I vaguely remember one of the exit staircases leaking and crumbling away rather quickly.
Up until now we always felt relaxed knowing that the problems would be taken care of both for the members benefit, as well as for Marriott. We simply moseyed along using our weeks most years, trading only 2x when medical issues aros. With the recent ouster of Allen Cohen I can no longer say I feel comfortable with the knowledge that someone is looking out for the members.
Someone earlier in the post stated that that isnt the main issue. Quite frankly for me it is in this sense. I think it is very indicative that a serious problem exsists or this wouldn't have happened. I think that anyone who has had dealings with Allan in the past would know that he always responded quite quickly to every owner who contacted him, and was a true rep for the owner. I would not have been concerned about board meeting, and not being notified when he was there because I knew we were looked after. Now Im wondering who is minding the store and why isnt the person who is representing our interests responding to enquiries. Whether there is a threat of legal action or not the president is supposed to be looking out for the interests of the members. If he isnt then he shouldnt be president, pure and simple. At this point we simply dont know where he stands on all of this.

 

[timeos2]

No way they will pay 100%

Sorry but the statute ran out years ago on 100% Marriott coverage of a roof. When the Association accepted the building the clock ran - usually for a year maybe two - then its the condo associations problem. The 43% they are offering is already more than I would expect and if that gets pushed too far the owners are likely to find themselves paying it all. Be careful what you push for. You are represented by the Board. If they didn't find fault in years 2-7 or beyond and push for repairs/replacement it would seem to be too late to get it now. Work for a REASONABLE settlement not 100% of everything you can think of.

 

[vincenzi]

If It Walks Like a Duck...

. With the recent ouster of Allen Cohen I can no longer say I feel comfortable with the knowledge that someone is looking out for the members.
Someone earlier in the post stated that that isnt the main issue. Quite frankly for me it is in this sense. I think it is very indicative that a serious problem exsists or this wouldn't have happened. I think that anyone who has had dealings with Allan in the past would know that he always responded quite quickly to every owner who contacted him, and was a true rep for the owner.

I agree wholeheartedly with Luckybee with the comments about Allan Cohen. Kudos to Allan Cohen. He is forthright and accessible. Allan, thank you. Thank you!!!

Unfortunately, things have changed. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck...it's a duck!

But, I have hope. As the expression goes, "There is nothing quite as constant as change." I have faith that Marriott and our Board upon reconsidering this matter will change their minds and direction and do what is honest and ethical.

 

[marksue]

Timeos, Not being an Ocean CLub owner, you do not fully understand what is going on. FIrst of all there is no statue of limitation on deceptive practives such as failing to disclose they did not build the Ocean Club. THey actually told you in the sales meetings that Marriott only builds quailty.

If Marriott is willing to gamble thier name by not treating owners properly then it will be there problem.

I have heard from a few owners who are going to walk from thier units. Word of this will get around and it will impace the entire Marriott system. THis is not a threat just a fact of what happens when negativity towards companies spread.

 

[Sunbum]

I am an owner at the Ocean Club and i tend to agree with Timeos2. If we ask for too much, we could end up empty handed. I have owned many differant bussiness over the years and i am surprised they are comming to the party at all. Sure, i would like for them to pay 100%, but that is not going to happen nor should it. "Reasonable" is the key word here.

I also agree wholeheartedly with the others about Allan Cohen. Thank you Alan!!

 

[Dave M]

I don't believe any negative publicity surrounding this issue will have any significant impact on Marriott's reputation. Lawsuits and complaints come and go and the huge hospitality company that Marriott is moves on.

As one simple example, I was a guest at the Bermuda Marriott about 10 years ago and became very ill with a gastrointestinal illness. Hundreds were sickened. I found out that Marriott knew there was a possibility that their private water supply was contaminated. Yet they continued to deny any responsibility - in spite of numerous articles about the problem in the local media and in the New York Times.

The hotel closed temporarily, lawsuits were filed and, a few months later, the hotel closed permanently.

Guess what? No one who matters even remembers that such an event occurred.

No matter what the outcome, this too will pass for Marriott.

Funny thing about those who claim they will walk away from their units. Those who are considering such an action should carefully review the section of the CC&Rs that discusses the owner’s responsibility to pay MFs, including all costs that the HOA incurs for collection. Legal fees can add up in a hurry for each owner and credit scores for those who refuse to pay may well dive. It’s a well-established legal principle that a condominium or timeshare owner can’t legally withhold payment because of a dispute with management or the HOA.

There is some excellent advice in recent posts in this thread. I'm not optimistic it will be heeded.

 

[lovearuba]

your advise

Hi Dave
I do believe a lot of good advise has been provided here. I also think a lot of folks are afraid to stand up for what they believe in because of repurcussions or because we are so used to accepting less than we deserve that we've become jaded.

This is a very emotional issue for the owners of these units. We have written a letter to the board. At this point there are a lot of letters that were sent, some personalized and some using the draft I put together. The sad thing is no one has heard from them. Not even a courtesy note indicating the letter was received and they would be reviewing it. Phone calls have been made that were unanswered.

The letter was factual and requested the board to answer our inquiries on what actions they were taking to address our concerns. It was not disrespectful although it was direct. If other owners wanted to personalize it, they were given the opportunity. Some just wanted to send a short email. They all have a right to ask for answers.

We the owners have the right to ask these questions and the board has a responsibility working on our behalf to answer them. So that is step one. If no response is received what is your advise. Shall we just forget it because we have no hope of getting these resolved? I really am curious as to what you believe is the next action needed.

Thank you for your candor.