Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[marksue]

Have 2. Have a great vacation.

 

[m61376]

Ditto- have a great trip!!! With this wonderful weather we've been having (as it is pouring yet again ) I bet you can't wait!

 

[Zac495]

Have a fabulous trip!!!

 

[ecwinch]

These are all good points but I'd expand on the "MVCI could not have predicted..." a bit. I think that if the roof was leaking as far back as owners say it was, the BOD should have determined that it was necessary to increase the reserve fund at least minimally to offset any repairs that could have been prudently predicted given the leaks. I say the BOD and not MVCI because the contractual responsibility for reserve matters rests with the BOD. Certainly if the owners knew about the leaks then it must have been mentioned to the BOD members, if they didn't know themselves. Doesn't it follow that the BOD would have at least mentioned the concerns to the people who were hired to write the reserve-related reports for the property's condition?

No, I think this was MVCI's responsibility to present this information to the BoD. The BoD is a group of part-time volunteers. MVCI has day-to-day responsibilty for operating the property. If the water damaged occurred to the extent alleged, then MVCI should have investigated the cause, and then reported that problem to the BoD. With recommendations on how to address.

I am uncomfortable pinning all this blame, and the responsbility for everything on the BoD. A well-run resort has the BoD setting policy and direction, and the managing entity running the day to day.

 

[SueDonJ]

These are all good points but I'd expand on the "MVCI could not have predicted..." a bit. I think that if the roof was leaking as far back as owners say it was, the BOD should have determined that it was necessary to increase the reserve fund at least minimally to offset any repairs that could have been prudently predicted given the leaks. I say the BOD and not MVCI because the contractual responsibility for reserve matters rests with the BOD. Certainly if the owners knew about the leaks then it must have been mentioned to the BOD members, if they didn't know themselves. Doesn't it follow that the BOD would have at least mentioned the concerns to the people who were hired to write the reserve-related reports for the property's condition?

No, I think this was MVCI's responsibility to present this information to the BoD. The BoD is a group of part-time volunteers. MVCI has day-to-day responsibilty for operating the property. If the water damaged occurred to the extent alleged, then MVCI should have investigated the cause, and then reported that problem to the BoD. With recommendations on how to address.

I am uncomfortable pinning all this blame, and the responsbility for everything on the BoD. A well-run resort has the BoD setting policy and direction, and the managing entity running the day to day.

Based on this post from DaveM, >>...Marriott's typical management agreement (I'm looking at two Marriott/HOA management agreements right now) includes a provision that makes it clear that it's the BOD's responsibility to determine the appropriate level for reserves. The contracts provide that Marriott provides assistance to the BOD with respect to reserves, but operates in that capacity only “at the direction of the Board”.<<

I understand your point about the BOD not being onsite therefore maybe not privy to all information, in general. I'll even meet you halfway and say that the MVCI employees should have made sure that the concerns about roof leaks were mentioned to the BOD.

But do we know that they didn't? I'd find it hard to believe that it was necessary, regardless, seeing as owners have documented here that they've noticed the roof leaking for years and that they formerly had a receptive BOD to which they did bring their concerns. For years here you had a sitting President who was well aware of the roof leaks - proof of that is in the records that the BOD over which he presided considered a lawsuit at one time against MVCI because of structural issues. So I do pin the responsibility for under-funded reserves for roof repairs/replacement on that BOD.

 

[AOC LOVER]

Where is everyone

I've been away for a month and just caught up on the board. Messages stopped abruptly on June 27. Is this board still active?

 

[lovearuba]

yes

Yes, it is still active but there are no recent developments to report. Were you in Aruba? Did you get the recent letter from Frank Knox. I didnt think it was worth posting it.

 

[modoaruba]

Just got back

Thanks to all who have wished us a good vacation.
Surprisingly no new posts.
We had a great time as usual.
The resort and staff were as expected-great.
For those who believe it does not rain in Aruba in July,well,
Friday night we were in Savanetta at the Old Man by the Sea restaurant.
We just finished our entrees and were given the desert menu when the sky opened up and down came a deluge.
A few minutes later the lights went out.
The only electronic device working was the credit card machine.Imagine that.
We always rent a car,so we drove back to the AOC in the pouring rain,streets flooding,and no lights on the entire island except the car lights and those on generators.Took us about an hour.
The AOC has limited generator lighting.We were given a flashlight for the room.
We made the best of it.Sat out on the balcony with martinis watching the lightening over the sea.

 

[Zac495]

In case anyone missed this when I posted that I sold my Marriotts - you CAN resell your Ocean Club through Marriott, but it will take a long time. If you put it on the list and sell it, you will get 16.5. Allan Madison, the resale manager, is wonderful to work with. I do believe it will be 2 or 3 years to wait, however, which is why I sold it for 11K privately.

Corey, the GM, contacted me by phone early on this thread trying to rationalize everything. He said he'd help me sell the unit ,but asked that I stop posting - I don't want to say that he told me not to - that would be a non-truth , but rather it was clear that Marriott was watching. It FELT to me as though if I cooperated - meaning :ignore: - I might be helped.

Never happened. Although he emailed me back when I wrote and was pleasant, nothing happened - he couldn't help. I got myself on the resale list, but I was #24 in line and stayed there until I pulled myself off.

I am very glad to no longer own there. I took a 4K loss (bought it resale - yes you can list it if you bought it resale) - but I used it for many years at the lower fee - plus - for some reason my buyer asked if we'd rent it back next year at 1650 - what a deal for a 2 bed oceanview - so we said yes.

I continue to read the thread and hope the best for the resort and its owners. I appreciate what Marksue has done - I am not going to join in the banter of whether he is doing it the right way or not - I am not helping so I have no right to throw stones or squirt perfume (I made up that expression - it means the opposite of throwing stones ):hysterical:

Anyway, I have had a bunch of people pm me about how I sold it - so I wanted to make sure owners saw that it can be listed resale for a decent price - but be prepared to WAIT. If you want to go for a few more years, but would like to be rid of it eventually, list it. YOu can always say no when it's FINALLY your turn. Or put ads here, redweek, etc and take less. I think 11K was a good price for right now.

I'm in Hawaii - posting pictures on Hawaii board!

 

[marksue]

Ellen,

Congrats on selling the unit. I hope you are enjoying Hawaii. We are moving forward on this end.

Marriott has told owners recently they are not taking on any new units for listing as they have too many now.

 

[marksue]

I just heard from an owner that some of the ceiling tiles on the first floor were down due to leaks in the roof. IS there anyone down there or jsut back in the last day or so who can anyone verify this? If there is a leak, with a new roof, why is the building still leaking? Renovations are to start next month, they better have all these leaks fixed or we will be throwing away alot of money.

 

[modoaruba]

Just left there Sunday.
There were terrible storms on Friday and Sunday.
No leaks were observed by us.

 

[Slakk]

I just heard from an owner that some of the ceiling tiles on the first floor were down due to leaks in the roof. IS there anyone down there or jsut back in the last day or so who can anyone verify this? If there is a leak, with a new roof, why is the building still leaking? Renovations are to start next month, they better have all these leaks fixed or we will be throwing away alot of money.

I was told that fire alarm sprinklers went off on a floor above and caused this. It happened on Sunday I think. We spoke to one of the people working on it - nothing whatsoever due to the rain Friday.

Not just a few it was a FLOOD - we happened to be walking through to the SC when it happened. They have most of the hallway behind a tarp for about 20 feet. Just enough room for you to walk by.

 

[timeos2]

Get it right or credibility disappears

I was told that fire alarm sprinklers went off on a floor above and caused this. It happened on Sunday I think. We spoke to one of the people working on it - nothing whatsoever due to the rain Friday.

Not just a few it was a FLOOD - we happened to be walking through to the SC when it happened. They have most of the hallway behind a tarp for about 20 feet. Just enough room for you to walk by.

See how assumptions can be deceiving? Until all the facts are in the best built theoretical scenario can fall apart quickly. From potential "proof" of yet another poorly executed repair/replacement to a perfectly plausible and no fault occurrence (unless the activation of the sprinkler system is also going to be somehow related to Marriott management shortcomings) in the blink of an eye. Be sure you have your facts correct or all you end up doing is repeating the oft told story of the little boy crying wolf.

 

[ecwinch]

See how assumptions can be deceiving? Until all the facts are in the best built theoretical scenario can fall apart quickly. From potential "proof" of yet another poorly executed repair/replacement to a perfectly plausible and no fault occurrence (unless the activation of the sprinkler system is also going to be somehow related to Marriott management shortcomings) in the blink of an eye. Be sure you have your facts correct or all you end up doing is repeating the oft told story of the little boy crying wolf.

As we say in Texas "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story"....

 

[AwayWeGo]

And As We Say On T. U. G. - B. B. S. . . .

As we say in Texas "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story"....

. . . Don't Confuse Me With Facts -- My Mind Is Made Up.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[marksue]

See how assumptions can be deceiving? Until all the facts are in the best built theoretical scenario can fall apart quickly. From potential "proof" of yet another poorly executed repair/replacement to a perfectly plausible and no fault occurrence (unless the activation of the sprinkler system is also going to be somehow related to Marriott management shortcomings) in the blink of an eye. Be sure you have your facts correct or all you end up doing is repeating the oft told story of the little boy crying wolf.

That is why I asked for verification. I didn't make any accusations. So now we ahve the facts. Lots of questions here where a stmt has been made and verification asked for.

 

[Slakk]

That is why I asked for verification. I didn't make any accusations. So now we ahve the facts. Lots of questions here where a stmt has been made and verification asked for.

As we left today they had fixed the ceiling on the one side and had moved the tarp to the part they had been letting people walk through. In a few days it should be all fixed.

Glad I happened to be walking by when it happened and talk to one of the people

 

[Zac495]

Ellen,

Congrats on selling the unit. I hope you are enjoying Hawaii. We are moving forward on this end.

Marriott has told owners recently they are not taking on any new units for listing as they have too many now.

Loving Hawaii and SO GLAD to be rid of Aruba. I am very hopeful that all will work out for all of the owners there. That stinks they're not putting anyone else on the list. If the economy recovers, people will be able to sell for a better price than we got. Our buyer got a great price!

 

[qlaval]

Here's the official voting results for the 2009 Annual Meeting:

 

[lovearuba]

messages often confusing

. . . Don't Confuse Me With Facts -- My Mind Is Made Up.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ​

I am often confused when I read your comments. I just shake my head and think, what is he actually saying.

I do understand repairs were made and do understand that rain is not a normal occurrance in Aruba but given the known leaky conditions of that resort, these things should be fixed by now. I am not really following how a ceiling needed to be fixed because a fire alarm condition. What exactly does that mean. If there is indeed a continued problem we should ask for pictures so that owners can have relevant information. Marksue did just that, he asked for validation.

For all the ocean club owners, please take pics of the things you experience when you are there and post them if you think they are relevant to the condition of the resort. I would also recommend that pics of the renovations get posted.

 

[timeos2]

There wasn't a leak yet now some think there was

I am often confused when I read your comments. I just shake my head and think, what is he actually saying.

I do understand repairs were made and do understand that rain is not a normal occurrance in Aruba but given the known leaky conditions of that resort, these things should be fixed by now. I am not really following how a ceiling needed to be fixed because a fire alarm condition. What exactly does that mean. If there is indeed a continued problem we should ask for pictures so that owners can have relevant information. Marksue did just that, he asked for validation.

I just heard from an owner that some of the ceiling tiles on the first floor were down due to leaks in the roof. IS there anyone down there or jsut back in the last day or so who can anyone verify this? If there is a leak, with a new roof, why is the building still leaking? Renovations are to start next month, they better have all these leaks fixed or we will be throwing away alot of money.

The simple fact is that rain wasn't involved in the situation yet the original post was worded (purposely or not) so it sounded like yet another Marriott Management outrage of incompetence. Your post also supports that misconception as the whole thing turned out to be a fire sprinkler problem. So "things should be fixed by now" doesn't apply to this. The on going and often speculative charges lead to this type of error and there are most likely others like you that now think the roof is still a problem and once again the Board/Marriott has blown it thanks to an incorrect posting. It really undermines any credibility of those crying wolf. The original post didn't ask for verification but sounded like someone had uncovered yet another roof/building leak problem after they were supposed to be fixed. "Why is the building still leaking?" is not an appeal for verification it is yet another accusation of faulty work done. Artful changes to "clarify" after being called on an obvious error doesn't change the original post.

A post asking "I hear there were some ceiling tiles that were damaged by water. Does anyone know what happened?" would have allowed for the proper response from someone in the know and not resulted in a false impression of roof problems. Its all in the wording and the assumptions being made.

 

[lovearuba]

underlying credibility

The simple fact is that rain wasn't involved in the situation yet the original post was worded (purposely or not) so it sounded like yet another Marriott Management outrage of incompetence. Your post also supports that misconception as the whole thing turned out to be a fire sprinkler problem. So "things should be fixed by now" doesn't apply to this. The on going and often speculative charges lead to this type of error and there are most likely others like you that now think the roof is still a problem and once again the Board/Marriott has blown it thanks to an incorrect posting. It really undermines any credibility of those crying wolf. The original post didn't ask for verification but sounded like someone had uncovered yet another roof/building leak problem after they were supposed to be fixed. "Why is the building still leaking?" is not an appeal for verification it is yet another accusation of faulty work done. Artful changes to "clarify" after being called on an obvious error doesn't change the original post.

A post asking "I hear there were some ceiling tiles that were damaged by water. Does anyone know what happened?" would have allowed for the proper response from someone in the know and not resulted in a false impression of roof problems. Its all in the wording and the assumptions being made.

I get what you are saying and I for one will be really pleased if the roof and leaking building have really been fixed. You are right in that folks like me will continue to question if the problems have been fixed since the building has been leaking for years, Lets hope it is rectified and I do hope folks like Marksue or anyone else that is in Aruba shares any updates that are relative to this issue.

 

[ecwinch]

A post asking "I hear there were some ceiling tiles that were damaged by water. Does anyone know what happened?" would have allowed for the proper response from someone in the know and not resulted in a false impression of roof problems. Its all in the wording and the assumptions being made.

Exactly. If the post had just stopped there, then it would have a simple straightforward question. But even after the edit, Mark has to make the inference that the roof was not adequately repaired.

This is the consistent trend where all information - no matter how benign - is viewed through the prism of "MVCI is evil".

 

[ecwinch]

Here's the official voting results for the 2009 Annual Meeting:

Any thoughts on why Frank Knox has the exact number of votes from the proxies as he does from the votes cast during the meeting?