Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[modoaruba]

Insufficient collections for needs or bling?

 

[Luckybee]

A few weeks ago I did sent a letter to Arne Sorenson complaining and requesting some explanations about how Marriott justified the use of their B votes.

I've just received today a nice & very polite letter from Dirk Schavemaker.(Thank you)
I will share the part that relate to the B shares.

In accordance with the Aruba Ocean Club Association Bylaws, MVCI is allocated 1,500 votes per open director position as the owner of the B Shares associated with the commercial spaces at Aruba Ocean Club. In addition, at the time of the Annual Meeting, MVCI was entitled to an additional 230 votes per open director position in respect of Aruba Ocean Club weeks owned by MVCI. Other examples of MVCI exercising its voting rights at Aruba Ocean Club include the 2003 Annual Meeting. While MVCI has not always exercised its voting rights at Aruba Ocean Club or its other timeshare resorts, it reserves the right to do so in its discretion. At the recent Annual Meeting, MVCI cast its votes in favor of Mr. Frank Knox and Mr. Anthony Lifrieri.

At the time of the Annual Meeting there were approximately 24,000 votes per open director position eligible to be cast (for a total of approximately 48,000 total votes since there were two open director positions). Approximately 13,000 total votes were cast in person or by proxy at the Annual Meeting. Just under 7,000 votes were cast by owners other than MVCI prior to the Annual Meeting, and the tally of these votes gave Mr. Frank Knox the lead going into the Annual Meeting. These votes, together with votes cast at the meeting, resulted in Mr. Knox’s election. With respect to the second open Board position, Mr. Anthony Lifrieri received a substantial number of votes from owners other than MVCI prior to the Annual Meeting and received the most number of votes from owners other than MVCI at the Annual Meeting. These votes resulted in Mr. Lifrieri’s election.

The official results of the election will be reflected in the minutes for the Annual Meeting. The minutes will be available to all Aruba Ocean Club owners upon finalization and approval by the Board.

Can anyone get numbers to verify the vote counts since they seem quite different than those provided by the owners who were present?

 

[lovearuba]

more considerate

But I haven't said at all throughout this discussion that Marriott's/MVCI's/the BOD's positions should be accepted unconditionally. Or at least, my understanding of the reasons for their positions shouldn't be translated to an unconditional acceptance of their actions.

Anyway, I agree and said above that possibly the special assessment/refurbishment could have been held off for a year or two in deference to the owners being hit with the m/f spike. I can speculate that it didn't happen because Marriott/MVCI wanted to make sure the refurbishment would happen and now is the time it has to, while the sitting BOD is in favor of it, but that speculation is only my opinion. The fact is, you owners were hit with unprecedented fee hikes and it's understandable that you're angry. Acknowledging that, though, doesn't alleviate the damage that's been done by way of insufficient collections at your resort.

I am pleased that your responses are more considerate than they appeared to be in the past. I was really a strong Marriott supporter for many years. I loved the ocean club. I was one of those people told by Marriott's representive, Michelle (a guy) that maintenance fees would never go up more than 4 to 5 percent a year. I actually believed him. You see, I trusted Marriott. That trust has been damaged and now I have a timeshare that is costing too much to enjoy. I would agree with a special assessment if I truly believed it would be used appropriately. I'm not going to reiterate why I don't have the trust in Marriott that you do. Our experiences really are much different and I hope that you get to keep your strong opinion on the Marriott brand.

 

[SueDonJ]

Insufficient collections for needs or bling?

Both, apparently, when you consider that infrastructure/energy costs on the island have increased to an extent that has never before occurred, and that what an individual defines as "bling" may be what Marriott/MVCI thinks of as its brand standard.

 

[SueDonJ]

I am pleased that your responses are more considerate than they appeared to be in the past. I was really a strong Marriott supporter for many years. I loved the ocean club. I was one of those people told by Marriott's representive, Michelle (a guy) that maintenance fees would never go up more than 4 to 5 percent a year. I actually believed him. You see, I trusted Marriott. That trust has been damaged and now I have a timeshare that is costing too much to enjoy. I would agree with a special assessment if I truly believed it would be used appropriately. I'm not going to reiterate why I don't have the trust in Marriott that you do. Our experiences really are much different and I hope that you get to keep your strong opinion on the Marriott brand.

Well, thank you for considering what I'm saying as opposed to how I'm saying it. Honestly, there was less contention contained in my posts than what was perceived to be in them, but that's neither here nor there.

I've said that I hope you owners will at least be able to enjoy visits to your resort once all is said and done and the repairs/refurbishment have been completed. I still hope for that for you, even if it only happens for a short period of time while you wait for a buyer, and whether you keep it or sell it, even if you never regain your trust with Marriott/MVCI. The resort is beautiful and it appears from what's been posted here of the re-design that it will be even more beautiful when it's done. Only each individual owner can decide for him/herself if the cost is worth the result.

I "trust" Marriott/MVCI to the extent that what they can and can't do is stipulated in the contracts. We've been fortunate in that our sales rep hasn't misrepresented any of the product/program to us, and in fact our only confusion has resulted from dealing with reps in the Marriott Reward Points program. I'm sure that's colored my judgment in favor of MVCI. I'm also sure that's one of the reasons why I can look at your situation and see it differently than you do.

 

[modoaruba]

Both, apparently, when you consider that infrastructure/energy costs on the island have increased to an extent that has never before occurred, and that what an individual defines as "bling" may be what Marriott/MVCI thinks of as its brand standard.

As long as the "owners" are paying to spruce up or loose it( by default by not paying) for Marriott...
There is no choice to the owners. Once you sign on the dotted line you are theirs.
Don't like it,try to sell or don't pay and they get it back.
You cannot financially win.
Just think. You have a house and decide to sell a bedroom to someone.
In the contract there is a stipulation that the buyer "owns" a percentage of the house. They pay for that bedroom a set fee. There is also a maintanence fee.Since you own the rest,your share is larger and obviously can outvote any decision. You want to refurbish and demand the other owner to pay their share of the expense. They have a choice in paying to make your house look better or they can refuse. If they refuse,the contract stipulates that the "bedroom owner" forfeits their bedroom and reverts back to the house owner.
If they pay,they have a refurbished bedroom in a beautifully redecorated house which they really can never own.
'So the house owner can keep this going for their own benefit until the bedroom owner either defaults or sells to the next person.
'

 

[SueDonJ]

... You cannot financially win.

No, no you can't, not with a timeshare. But you can have spectacular vacations in beautiful places.

 

[lovearuba]

Not everyone

No, no you can't, not with a timeshare. But you can have spectacular vacations in beautiful places.

Not if you can no longer afford to go there because your maintenance fees are so high.

 

[modoaruba]

No, no you can't, not with a timeshare. But you can have spectacular vacations in beautiful places.

Is that supposed to make me feel better?
Because I own what it cost me for one week as an owner I could have gotten TWO weeks of spectacularity at that price as a renter.

 

[marksue]

Not if you can no longer afford to go there because your maintenance fees are so high.

And for many that is the case, especially when your cost of ownership doubles in a year.

As Modo says, it is now cheaper to rent at the OC then to own. I no longer see a value prop to owning the OC.

I can envision a similar situation of getting an assessment at the SC as they have projected a 25 year life on the roof just as they did at the OC. If the environmental conditions are such why did Marriott put a 25 year life span on the roofs? I would rather pay $10 or $20 a year versus a big assessment after 15.

 

[ecwinch]

Try this direct link to the open PDF.



I don't think it includes the By-Laws. But it wouldn't matter anyway, because as you've pointed out, what applies to one resort cannot be generally applied to another.

And doesn't all this just drive the point home, that it's necessary to have a qualified legal representative involved?

I can download it fine. But when I try to open it, Adobe gives me an error message that the file is corrupt and cannot be repaired.. I will try on another computer.

JMO - I do not think you need an attorney to read a timeshare document. Or even to prepare/send a demand letter (which is the general process to be followed initially). Any steps after that, sure.

 

[ecwinch]

But it's gotten to the point where you can rent at the AOC cheaper than the MFs.
You can now enjoy a soon to be remodeled,refurbished,new roof an windows,etc. Marriott facility without the ownership and fees.
You don't have to buy the cow for the glass of milk.

This is true in the vast majority of timeshare resorts right now. Granted, there is greater disparity between the rent vs own equation at the OC.

And MVCI is the not the prime beneficiary of the refurb, the owners are. Revenues at the Champions sports bar are not going to increase drastically due to the presence of remodeled rooms or the fancy fixtures in the lobby.

 

[ecwinch]

Great answer.
Didn't mean to insult you but you have been driving a hard line on us AOC owners as to why we should listen to Marriott and pay the MFs unconditionaly.

I do not think this has been said. You absolutely should question how your resort is operating. It is the "owners" responsibility to provides checks and balances to how the BoD is managing the resort.

But once a duly elected BoD has explained how they used their business judgement to make a decision, you should accept that decision and move on. If based on the facts, you feel they are improperly making decisions then you should react accordingly.

But make sure that you are reacting to the facts of the situation, and not the rhetoric of a former BoD members who feels wronged.

 

[ecwinch]

I can envision a similar situation of getting an assessment at the SC as they have projected a 25 year life on the roof just as they did at the OC. If the environmental conditions are such why did Marriott put a 25 year life span on the roofs? I would rather pay $10 or $20 a year versus a big assessment after 15.

Mark,

This rhetoric completely ignores the fact that MVCI admits that there was a problem with the roof, and is paying for a portion of it's replacement. This point keeps coming up, and you continue to ignore the fact that roof replacements, like tires, are subject to pro-rata warranty replacements.

If the 25 year roof on your house fails, and is under warranty, you are going to be faced with a huge bill. The bill is going to be for the years of beneficial usage you received. This situation is no different. If the exact same thing happens at the SC, a similar assessment will occur. But is will be less, as more units are involved.

I fully understand that you want to be made "whole".

MVCI could not have predicted the roof would have failed in order to collect the $10 per year ($100 total BTW) you suggest.

 

[SueDonJ]

Not if you can no longer afford to go there because your maintenance fees are so high.

Is that supposed to make me feel better?
Because I own what it cost me for one week as an owner I could have gotten TWO weeks of spectacularity at that price as a renter.

And for many that is the case, especially when your cost of ownership doubles in a year.

As Modo says, it is now cheaper to rent at the OC then to own. I no longer see a value prop to owning the OC.

And around and around and around we go ...

Of course, you owners have to re-evaluate ownership more thoroughly than those at most other resorts because of the recent substantial cost increases, but the rent v. buy discussion applies to every timeshare. It's something every owner should consider throughout ownership. But the general concensus of savvy timeshare owners is that if you determine that the timeshare lifestyle is for you, then you should buy where you want to go. Especially in a smaller resort where inventory is limited, renting will not guarantee you the particular unit configuration/season that you want.

And seriously, I'm not sure that anything other than a rebate of the increased m/f and special assessment could make any owner feel better about the situation at your resort. Each of you is being forced to determine now if your use and current costs make ownership is still worth the price. Nobody can say that any individual owner's decision will be correct.

I can envision a similar situation of getting an assessment at the SC as they have projected a 25 year life on the roof just as they did at the OC. If the environmental conditions are such why did Marriott put a 25 year life span on the roofs?

Are we back to wishing bad things on owners at other resorts? Because if not, I'm not understanding your comment. It's been explained here that as a newer resort, Aruba Surf Club utilized more efficient and longer-lasting building materials. Plus, Marriott did not project the life span of the roofs; the builders did. Marriott certainly wasn't responsible for the Aruba Ocean Club roof builder going out of business resulting in no warranty coverage.

I would rather pay $10 or $20 a year versus a big assessment after 15.

Well, this speaks to exactly what critics here have been saying throughout the discussion, that insufficient collections have been a major cause of the current financial situation at your resort. Do you now agree with that opinion?

(Maybe it's a little late in the game, but what are the 3-letter codes for Ocean Club and Surf Club anyway? It's beginning to get on my nerves, typing out the whole names!)

 

[Bill4728]

(Maybe it's a little late in the game, but what are the 3-letter codes for Ocean Club and Surf Club anyway? It's beginning to get on my nerves, typing out the whole names!)

here are the code which II uses.

Marriott's Aruba Ocean Club • MAO

Marriott's Aruba Surf Club • MSU

Personally I'd use MAOC & MASC

 

[modoaruba]

I have been spewing my feelings about timeshares,Marriott,BOD,MFs,AOC etc.
I have come to the realization a long time ago that to accept the status quo because it cannot be changed.
As long as the real majority of owners are unaware or do not want to get involved with the issues,the governing bodies have carte blanche.
That is my view.
I look at what I paid for my timeshares,added the MFs for every year I've owned,and divided that number by those years. Very gloomy numbers.
What have I done? Live and learn.
I like my resort. It's very nice.I always enjoy my stay since I make the best of it.I do not take any negativity with me.I do not get in conversations regarding what is being discussed on this board.
I will be in Aruba soon and will enjoy my stay.Life is too short.

Incase Marriott has been reading my jibberish, I am bringing with me my own box of pens and probably should bring my own shampoo(just incase).

 

[SueDonJ]

I have been spewing my feelings about timeshares,Marriott,BOD,MFs,AOC etc.
I have come to the realization a long time ago that to accept the status quo because it cannot be changed.
As long as the real majority of owners are unaware or do not want to get involved with the issues,the governing bodies have carte blanche.
That is my view.
I look at what I paid for my timeshares,added the MFs for every year I've owned,and divided that number by those years. Very gloomy numbers.
What have I done? Live and learn.
I like my resort. It's very nice.I always enjoy my stay since I make the best of it.I do not take any negativity with me.I do not get in conversations regarding what is being discussed on this board.
I will be in Aruba soon and will enjoy my stay.Life is too short.

Incase Marriott has been reading my jibberish, I am bringing with me my own box of pens and probably should bring my own shampoo(just incase).

:rofl: It's the pens - they get me every time.

I like your attitude, Modo, about your finances and your vacations. Any of us could look at timeshare expenses and wonder where we'd be, financially, if we hadn't made that choice. Probably 90% of the time we'd have more money in the bank, or more toys at home, and we'd never travel through life from anything except a hotel room. Ugh. But what's done is done, and a person can only make the best of his/her choices. Relax and enjoy, that's as good a mantra as any.

 

[SueDonJ]

Personally I'd use MAOC & MASC

Will do. Thanks, Bill.

 

[SueDonJ]

I can download it fine. But when I try to open it, Adobe gives me an error message that the file is corrupt and cannot be repaired.. I will try on another computer.

Hmmm, I don't know. Mine d/l's and opens immediately. If I could only figure out how to copy/paste from a PDF ....

JMO - I do not think you need an attorney to read a timeshare document. Or even to prepare/send a demand letter (which is the general process to be followed initially). Any steps after that, sure.

Oh, I agree. I can read it just fine, and generally know where to look for what I need because of indexes, but an attorney's knowledge would allow him/her to do it much faster than me with more focus and much fewer useless tangents. Plus s/he would know when it's most appropriate to say "I object!"

 

[SueDonJ]

Can anyone get numbers to verify the vote counts since they seem quite different than those provided by the owners who were present?

>>At the time of the Annual Meeting there were approximately 24,000 votes per open director position eligible to be cast (for a total of approximately 48,000 total votes since there were two open director positions). Approximately 13,000 total votes were cast in person or by proxy at the Annual Meeting. Just under 7,000 votes were cast by owners other than MVCI prior to the Annual Meeting, and the tally of these votes gave Mr. Frank Knox the lead going into the Annual Meeting. These votes, together with votes cast at the meeting, resulted in Mr. Knox’s election. With respect to the second open Board position, Mr. Anthony Lifrieri received a substantial number of votes from owners other than MVCI prior to the Annual Meeting and received the most number of votes from owners other than MVCI at the Annual Meeting. These votes resulted in Mr. Lifrieri’s election.<<

Hmmmm. Is it possible that it was not announced at the meeting how many votes were cast prior to it, so that the folks who were there would not have that information at the time they posted the results? Is it possible that those 7,000 were the proxy votes that we've all been wondering were hiding? This letter says that approx 13,000 were cast, just under 7,000 prior, which would leave a balance of the 6,000+ that was mentioned here by the folks who were at the meeting. I don't know, but that would be one guess.

 

[SueDonJ]

Mark,

This rhetoric completely ignores the fact that MVCI admits that there was a problem with the roof, and is paying for a portion of it's replacement. This point keeps coming up, and you continue to ignore the fact that roof replacements, like tires, are subject to pro-rata warranty replacements.

If the 25 year roof on your house fails, and is under warranty, you are going to be faced with a huge bill. The bill is going to be for the years of beneficial usage you received. This situation is no different. If the exact same thing happens at the SC, a similar assessment will occur. But is will be less, as more units are involved.

I fully understand that you want to be made "whole".

MVCI could not have predicted the roof would have failed in order to collect the $10 per year ($100 total BTW) you suggest.

These are all good points but I'd expand on the "MVCI could not have predicted..." a bit. I think that if the roof was leaking as far back as owners say it was, the BOD should have determined that it was necessary to increase the reserve fund at least minimally to offset any repairs that could have been prudently predicted given the leaks. I say the BOD and not MVCI because the contractual responsibility for reserve matters rests with the BOD. Certainly if the owners knew about the leaks then it must have been mentioned to the BOD members, if they didn't know themselves. Doesn't it follow that the BOD would have at least mentioned the concerns to the people who were hired to write the reserve-related reports for the property's condition?

 

[m61376]

:rofl: It's the pens - they get me every time.

I like your attitude, Modo, about your finances and your vacations. Any of us could look at timeshare expenses and wonder where we'd be, financially, if we hadn't made that choice. Probably 90% of the time we'd have more money in the bank, or more toys at home, and we'd never travel through life from anything except a hotel room. Ugh. But what's done is done, and a person can only make the best of his/her choices. Relax and enjoy, that's as good a mantra as any.

The reality is most of us decided to buy as an investment in lifestyle. I know that sounds like a sales pitch, but there is a lot of truth in that. How many people have posted that it forced them to take vacations, etc.? Or that they took an extra trip, or perhaps got to vacation with family or friends that they otherwise would not have?

There are certain things money can't buy. Personally, we only discovered this about 3 years ago. A year and a half ago, because we owned a unit, I was able to avail ourselves of a Getaway week in Cancun and we took my parents a week before their 60th Anniversary. We had a family vacation planned for the beginning of January when our daughter was on intersession, but because we had access to a 2BR villa for less than a thousand dollars we decided to take an extra trip. If we had to book 2 hotel rooms costing $500-600 a night we likely wouldn't have taken the extra trip. Well, sadly and unexpectedly, my Dad died a month later. The memories from that week truly are priceless and that timeshare week was the best purchase we ever made!

Recently we decided to purchase a 3BR unit. Friends are coming down for a long weekend at one end and my daughter and her boyfriend for a long weekend at the other, and my Mom is coming down for the week with us. How nice is it to be able to share a vacation with people who are special to us?

So, yes, the MF's are high, and I can certainly understand all the angst expressed here. But my point is people shouldn't be so angered that they lose sight of why they thought their purchase was so right in the first place.

 

[modoaruba]

The reality is most of us decided to buy as an investment in lifestyle. I know that sounds like a sales pitch, but there is a lot of truth in that. How many people have posted that it forced them to take vacations, etc.? Or that they took an extra trip, or perhaps got to vacation with family or friends that they otherwise would not have?

There are certain things money can't buy. Personally, we only discovered this about 3 years ago. A year and a half ago, because we owned a unit, I was able to avail ourselves of a Getaway week in Cancun and we took my parents a week before their 60th Anniversary. We had a family vacation planned for the beginning of January when our daughter was on intersession, but because we had access to a 2BR villa for less than a thousand dollars we decided to take an extra trip. If we had to book 2 hotel rooms costing $500-600 a night we likely wouldn't have taken the extra trip. Well, sadly and unexpectedly, my Dad died a month later. The memories from that week truly are priceless and that timeshare week was the best purchase we ever made!

Recently we decided to purchase a 3BR unit. Friends are coming down for a long weekend at one end and my daughter and her boyfriend for a long weekend at the other, and my Mom is coming down for the week with us. How nice is it to be able to share a vacation with people who are special to us?

So, yes, the MF's are high, and I can certainly understand all the angst expressed here. But my point is people shouldn't be so angered that they lose sight of why they thought their purchase was so right in the first place.

Great post. I really mean that.
I've been going to Aruba for about 25 years,of those,11 years at the AOC.
Got to meet many people. Since I go around the same times each year,get to see the same people. Even made great friends along the way.
Sometimes we bring friends and/or relatives.Since we are familiar with the resort and our expectations are always met, we have a great time.
We are on our way again this weekend and already know some of the other owners that will be there.
That is why I leave all the negativity behind,relax on the beach,enjoy the company,enjoy the water and sun,the restaurants,and whatever comes our way.

I'll catch up on this board(maybe) when I return.

I'll have a drink for all of you while I sit back and watch the sunset.

WHATEVER!

 

[SueDonJ]

WHATEVER!

Safe travels, and have a great vacation.