Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[ecwinch]

I continue to be amazed by the fact that there are those non owners here on this board who think this is just "about the bill". For me the bill has little to do with it ! Now back to real life...lol

And how many posts have included the terms:

"would you feel the same way if you had to pay the ...."

or words to that affect. Yes, I am sure that this whole "crusade" is about due process, and having a representative board.

 

[Dean]

I continue to be amazed by the fact that there are those non owners here on this board who think this is just "about the bill". For me the bill has little to do with it ! Now back to real life...lol

So this is an emotional fight and not a factual one? If this is about being treated fairly, nothing going forward is likely to change anyone's mind that feels wronged. IF that's the reason for this crusade, I'd think over 900 of those names would drop off the list. And I don't think you can get back on the same page, much like ironing out a marriage when one has strayed. IF I were in the situation and my main issue was I felt betrayed, I'd file legal action or split or both, most likely both. I'd bet for most of those on the list it really is ONLY about the bill, at least for those on the list that are really on board at all.

 

[MarionG]

Aruba Ocean Club Refurbishment Wallop

I was in shock when I opened the additional bill due June1 for almost $500 for a one bedroom unit. This came out of left field and was not mentioned in the letter explaining the reason for the dramatic increase in maintenance fees. I know a woman who owns three weeks of a 2 bedroom, and her assessment was almost $4000!

I wrote to the general manager and to the board but have not received any response.

Is it possible to go on strike and not pay?

 

[Dean]

I was in shock when I opened the additional bill due June1 for almost $500 for a one bedroom unit. This came out of left field and was not mentioned in the letter explaining the reason for the dramatic increase in maintenance fees. I know a woman who owns three weeks of a 2 bedroom, and her assessment was almost $4000!

I wrote to the general manager and to the board but have not received any response.

Is it possible to go on strike and not pay?

Sure, they will take it over and you will own nothing. They may or may not report it to the credit agencies but likely will. However, wasn't a 2 BR at the SC about $600 a year less than your HI resort? I suspect that's one of the problems that the fees were artificially low. Compared to other similar resorts (US, esp HI) and accounting for the island location, I'd expect them be about $1000-1200 for a 1 BR and $1400-1600 for a 2 BR going forward.

 

[dioxide45]

Sure, they will take it over and you will own nothing. They may or may not report it to the credit agencies but likely will. However, wasn't a 2 BR at the SC about $600 a year less than your HI resort? I suspect that's one of the problems that the fees were artificially low. Compared to other similar resorts (US, esp HI) and accounting for the island location, I'd expect them be about $1000-1200 for a 1 BR and $1400-1600 for a 2 BR going forward.

I think I read in this thread that the new MF for OC are far higher than those at SC. How soon will we see a similar thread for the SC as I would suspect their MF are being held artificially low also.

Every year on our proxy at Grande Vista is a vote to not fully fund the reserve at the resort. I have voted against it each year, but it always passes. The board always suggests voting for the proposal. Wonder if something similar exists here?

 

[timeos2]

A plan for diaster

I think I read in this thread that the new MF for OC are far higher than those at SC. How soon will we see a similar thread for the SC as I would suspect their MF are being held artificially low also.

Every year on our proxy at Grande Vista is a vote to not fully fund the reserve at the resort. I have voted against it each year, but it always passes. The board always suggests voting for the proposal. Wonder if something similar exists here?

Although now allowed by FL law underfunding reserves is a recipe for future (large) special assessments that will most likely FAR exceed the annual amount needed if collected properly over the years. Plus it usually means the resort falls into disrepair with delayed maintenance. It is a very penny wise and dollar foolish path to follow but far too many resorts (especially those under Developer control and/or sales) travel it.

 

[ecwinch]

I think I read in this thread that the new MF for OC are far higher than those at SC. How soon will we see a similar thread for the SC as I would suspect their MF are being held artificially low also.

Anything is possible.

I would think that the probability is lower for a number of reasons:

- SC is a high density development. Meaning more units sharing the expense load of shared/common resources. Just think of one expense factor - like landscaping for instance.
- SC has the benefit of modern engineering against wind/storm damage. One of the big factors in the OC assessment was damage from the hurricane. Due to the modern engineering at SC, it suffered far less damage

And refurbishment is already underway in the first tower of the SC. From the owners meeting I attended in Dec (NOTE: not an owner), that is completely from the reserves.

So in a certain respect the attribute that makes the OC most attractive - the low density - is also the factor that make m/f and ownership costs higher than the SC.

 

[Dean]

I think I read in this thread that the new MF for OC are far higher than those at SC. How soon will we see a similar thread for the SC as I would suspect their MF are being held artificially low also.

Every year on our proxy at Grande Vista is a vote to not fully fund the reserve at the resort. I have voted against it each year, but it always passes. The board always suggests voting for the proposal. Wonder if something similar exists here?

The issues I wrote about for another resort in Aruba were in part where the reserves had not been fully funded and the amount that was listed as the need was artificially low whether it be due to bad planning or purposeful is one of the questions. A newer resort should be some lower early on.

 

[Luckybee]

So this is an emotional fight and not a factual one? If this is about being treated fairly, nothing going forward is likely to change anyone's mind that feels wronged. IF that's the reason for this crusade, I'd think over 900 of those names would drop off the list. And I don't think you can get back on the same page, much like ironing out a marriage when one has strayed. IF I were in the situation and my main issue was I felt betrayed, I'd file legal action or split or both, most likely both. I'd bet for most of those on the list it really is ONLY about the bill, at least for those on the list that are really on board at all.

Who said anything about it being emotional...there are some very solid factual reasons to be concerned about the manner in which the board "continues" to operate . Im sure for "some" the bill is the ONLY issue, but I think you are absolutely incorrect that it is for "most".
I remind any owner that they should not get their info here, nothing against Tug, but, rather contact people off the board, including Mr. Cohen who for years has been the board member most responsive to the owners and a trusted source of information.

 

[lovearuba]

I remind any owner that they should not get their info here, nothing against Tug, but, rather contact people off the board, including Mr. Cohen who for years has been the board member most responsive to the owners and a trusted source of information.

Great Point, updates are put here but I agree the best source for ocean club owners is by contacting Marksue and being included in updates that are sent directly to owners.

 

[Dean]

Who said anything about it being emotional...there are some very solid factual reasons to be concerned about the manner in which the board "continues" to operate . Im sure for "some" the bill is the ONLY issue, but I think you are absolutely incorrect that it is for "most".
I remind any owner that they should not get their info here, nothing against Tug, but, rather contact people off the board, including Mr. Cohen who for years has been the board member most responsive to the owners and a trusted source of information.

I don't see many choices other than it's the dollars (which you said it wasn't) or the emotions (which I'd lump "trust" into) involved but you can enlighten me if you like. I'm open for real information.

 

[SueDonJ]

I was in shock when I opened the additional bill due June1 for almost $500 for a one bedroom unit. This came out of left field and was not mentioned in the letter explaining the reason for the dramatic increase in maintenance fees. I know a woman who owns three weeks of a 2 bedroom, and her assessment was almost $4000!

I wrote to the general manager and to the board but have not received any response.

Is it possible to go on strike and not pay?

How could it be a surprise to any owner? The Dec, 2008 Letter from the Board President and the Mar, 2009 Letter from the BOD both mentioned the increased maintenance fees as well as the special assessment which would be split into two payments, 2009 and 2010. Also, the 2009 Operating Budget includes a letter from the BOD Treasurer detailing all of the fee increases including the special assessment. All of those communications were mailed to owners and can be found in the Owners section of Aruba Ocean Club's page on my-vacationclub.com - there's no surprise at all.

 

[SueDonJ]

Who said anything about it being emotional...there are some very solid factual reasons to be concerned about the manner in which the board "continues" to operate . Im sure for "some" the bill is the ONLY issue, but I think you are absolutely incorrect that it is for "most".
I remind any owner that they should not get their info here, nothing against Tug, but, rather contact people off the board, including Mr. Cohen who for years has been the board member most responsive to the owners and a trusted source of information.

I'm confused again. Have the Annual Meeting/BOD elections taken place and Allan's been replaced already, or has he resigned prior to the election, or is he still sitting on the board while working with your group?

Because the rallying cry for "transparency" is due to Marriott supposedly blocking communication between the BOD and the owners except for what Marriott approves, isn't it? The BOD information on my-vacationclub.com indicates that Allan Cohen is still on the board through 2009, and here you say that Mr. Cohen is communicating with your group. That seems contradictory to your group assertion that there is no transparency.

I remind any owner that in addition to the important information being distributed by the owners who are dissatisfied with recent issues at your resort, you may want to also read this entire thread for the contrasting opinions of your fellow Aruba Ocean Club owners and other resort owners who do not agree with the group's perspective. Looking at things from all sides will enable you to reach your own informed opinion/conclusion.

 

[lovearuba]

Most read boards

Hi
I came across these statistics and thought they were interesting.

http://boardreader.com/fp/TUG_Bulletin_Board_17965/Marriott_54526.html

 

[marksue]

AOC BOD meeting - Marriott prevents owners from thier wishes

I will have a more complete recap of the board meeting in the next day or so. But to all owners of all Marriott timeshare, beware. Marriott is preventing the owner’s desires from being acted upon. For all the years Marriott has never used their votes as they have always said they would not stand in the way of the owners decisions. In fact in a phone call with Stephan Weisz the President of MVCI, he said if you do not like your board get rid of them. Well the owners had voted and they had soundly defeated Frank Knox, which until for the first time Marriott casted their B votes and voted for Frank.

What is going on? Why is Marriott preventing the owner’s wishes from going through? What is being held back from the owners? Marriott would not even let the board run the meeting. They brought in a parliamentarian person to run the meeting. Why is Marriott taking over the owner’s property? Troy and Dirk basically took over the meeting from the owners.

I will have the vote counts in a follow up post, but Frank got about 400 votes prior to Marriott's votes. He was in 3rd place and should not be on the board. Frank, you do not deserve to be on the board and should resign immediately, before we the owners vote you off.

From what I have heard there is more anger now towards the board and Marriott based on these actions.

 

[TJCNewYork]

Hi
I came across these statistics and thought they were interesting.

http://boardreader.com/fp/TUG_Bulletin_Board_17965/Marriott_54526.html

Wow. Interesting stats, thanks for posting.

 

[tlwmkw]

Marksue,

Can you clarify your post- what are B shares? Did MVCI vote using proxys that they had received or do they have some extra votes that are not tied to timeshare weeks? If they voted against the will of the owners then that is a bad sign- that would be an issue with MVCI and not the board. This would be a bad precedent for all MVCI timeshares. Is Frank Knox an MVCI employee? Why are you so against him?

Thanks, tlwmkw

 

[MarionG]

Sure, they will take it over and you will own nothing. They may or may not report it to the credit agencies but likely will. However, wasn't a 2 BR at the SC about $600 a year less than your HI resort? I suspect that's one of the problems that the fees were artificially low. Compared to other similar resorts (US, esp HI) and accounting for the island location, I'd expect them be about $1000-1200 for a 1 BR and $1400-1600 for a 2 BR going forward.

I don't know about the Surf Club. I bought the one bedroom at Ocean Club in 1999 and had been paying $5-600 a year until last year when they sent the information about the refurbishment. They maintained at the time that the increase would be about $400 additional every year. In 2008 it was over $1100 and this year it was over $1200. There was no mention of an additional bill that would be due in June. My Hawaii property is about $1400 a year for a two bedroom. I called Marriott (again) and was told that if I didn't pay I couldn't use the property for 2010 and would not be able to use my Marriott rewards points. I'm really disgusted with the system and am thinking seriously of selling -- but I doubt that there is much of a market.

 

[marksue]

MVCI owns B shares in all timeshares. These represent thier interests in the timeshare units.

Frank Knox is the one who was instrumental with Marriott in forcing out Allan Cohen and then being appointed president. He did this the day before last years owners meeting and then did not show up for the meeting. Frank is the one who started the lack of transparency to owners. Frank is the one who talked about the state of the building and all of the structural reports, yet refuses to release any of the reports backing up his telling owners how good the building is. Frank is the one who has refused to communicate with owners as past presidents have. Frank is not wanted by the owners, but Marriott votes him in. You have to wonder why all of a sudden MArriott uses thier votes and votes against the wishes of the majority of the owners. (something they have never done and out right stated would never do).

 

[SueDonJ]

Hi
I came across these statistics and thought they were interesting.

http://boardreader.com/fp/TUG_Bulletin_Board_17965/Marriott_54526.html

Excellent! For probably the first and only time ever, I am in the Top Three! Can't say I'm surprised - I'm bored out of my mind waiting for vacation and reading/writing about Hilton Head, the issues at Aruba Ocean Club, and fun stuff in The Lounge is way more interesting than housework. You can vacuum only so much.

Where is my prize?

 

[SueDonJ]

I will have a more complete recap of the board meeting in the next day or so. But to all owners of all Marriott timeshare, beware. Marriott is preventing the owner’s desires from being acted upon. For all the years Marriott has never used their votes as they have always said they would not stand in the way of the owners decisions. In fact in a phone call with Stephan Weisz the President of MVCI, he said if you do not like your board get rid of them. Well the owners had voted and they had soundly defeated Frank Knox, which until for the first time Marriott casted their B votes and voted for Frank.

What is going on? Why is Marriott preventing the owner’s wishes from going through? What is being held back from the owners? Marriott would not even let the board run the meeting. They brought in a parliamentarian person to run the meeting. Why is Marriott taking over the owner’s property? Troy and Dirk basically took over the meeting from the owners.

I will have the vote counts in a follow up post, but Frank got about 400 votes prior to Marriott's votes. He was in 3rd place and should not be on the board. Frank, you do not deserve to be on the board and should resign immediately, before we the owners vote you off.

From what I have heard there is more anger now towards the board and Marriott based on these actions.

MVCI owns B shares in all timeshares. These represent thier interests in the timeshare units.

Frank Knox is the one who was instrumental with Marriott in forcing out Allan Cohen and then being appointed president. He did this the day before last years owners meeting and then did not show up for the meeting. Frank is the one who started the lack of transparency to owners. Frank is the one who talked about the state of the building and all of the structural reports, yet refuses to release any of the reports backing up his telling owners how good the building is. Frank is the one who has refused to communicate with owners as past presidents have. Frank is not wanted by the owners, but Marriott votes him in. You have to wonder why all of a sudden MArriott uses thier votes and votes against the wishes of the majority of the owners. (something they have never done and out right stated would never do).

This is like trying to watch Fox News - it's all sensationalism and biased opinion with barely any substantiated facts. I'd like to read another Ocean Club owner's account of the opposing view.

 

[marksue]

You have the facts of the meeting. Of course you dont see them as facts because you do not believe in what is taking place. As soon as I have all the numbers they will be posted as well. The information about Frank has been posted previously and supported.

 

[SueDonJ]

You have the facts of the meeting. Of course you dont see them as facts because you do not believe in what is taking place. As soon as I have all the numbers they will be posted as well. The information about Frank has been posted previously and supported.

No, I have your biased version of the facts minus the opposing view. There always is one, as has been demonstrated over and over again in this thread by other Ocean Club owners who have questioned or disagreed with the things you've written.

I also don't know the reasons behind or legality of the actions that Marriott/MVCI or your BOD have taken. Neither do you, judging by the questions you're asking. Now you are certainly entitled to ask them, but I'll reserve my opinion about whether or not Marriott/MVCI or your BOD are acting inappropriately until I know the answers. In other words, there may be a possibility that the conclusion you're reaching is not entirely correct.

 

[SueDonJ]

... you do not believe in what is taking place ...

Marksue, it's way too easy for you to dismiss opposing viewpoints by projecting this excuse. You have no way of knowing exactly what I believe, which is why I'm going to be very clear here now. My opinion is based on all of the posts on this thread, the documents under the Owner section of Aruba Ocean Club's page on my-vacationclub.com, and the information contained in my ownership documents that is not resort-specific but pertains to MVCI as a whole.

I believe that the recent increases in maintenance fees and the 2-year special assessment fees imposed on Aruba Ocean Club owners, although burdensome and unwelcome, are necessary if the resort is to be held to the quality standard that is expected.

I believe that the explanations offered by Marriott/MVCI/the BOD for those fee increases, as well as for the other actions (BOD email address, Allan Cohen's term limit, no warranty relief, etc.) which generated complaints in this thread, are adequate.

I believe, Marksue, that you realized or were advised by qualified attorneys several months ago that based on the AOC bylaws and contractual documents, Marriott/MVCI/your BOD would prevail in the civil suit action that you proposed in your first post here.

I believe that you hoped that Marriott/MVCI/your BOD could be swayed by an outpouring of negative publicity or owner dissatisfaction, which is why you offer information to AOC owners through emails, online communities such as this one and onsite canvassing. I believe that you deliberately use a biased sensationalized style in your communications because you know that the owners are already upset with Marriott/MVCI/your BOD over the increased fees, and you know that particular style will further inflame emotions.

I believe that you have received here level-headed disagreement and criticism, as well as suggestions to keep on point and stick to the facts, from fellow AOC owners and non-owners. I believe that you deliberately ignore such posts, or use the cloak-and-dagger, supersecret, can't-divulge-that nonsense to excuse them, because you know that by acknowledging and/or responding to their content, you will also be acknowledging the possibility that your opinion is not the only correct one.

I believe that you latched onto the only option available to you - unseating the members of the BOD - so that you and the other members of your group could walk away from this without conceding everything to Marriott/MVCI/your BOD. What I still don't understand is why you didn't research and follow the rules/laws pertaining to submission of a petition to your BOD, because as much as the effort could have been a success, your unqualified submission sabotaged it.

Without a doubt, I believe that this post can be dismissed as a biased, uninformed, unqualified opinion. I agree. It is. But it's no more biased, uninformed or unqualified than any of your posts, Marksue, and it is entirely as plausible as any of yours.

 

[Luckybee]

Marksue...do yourself a favour and the rest of the owners..dont allow yourself to get baited into an arguement with non owners....deal with the issues at hand and stay the course. There are others who for whatever reason have their opinion, and im sure in some cases their own agenda. Obviously you should respond to "owners" concern. Just keep posting what happens as you have, and try and ignore the rhetoric. I think we'd all be better off for it