Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[Eric]

Once again you make it sound like non-owners don't know what they are talking about. Baiting into an argument ? Please.... there are many non-owners and owners who applaud Mark's intention but think his methods are less than effective. After all, Mark is a person who created an alias to make it sounds like he agreed with his own cause. Thats pretty pathetic

Marksue...do yourself a favour and the rest of the owners..dont allow yourself to get baited into an arguement with non owners....deal with the issues at hand and stay the course. There are others who for whatever reason have their opinion, and im sure in some cases their own agenda. Obviously you should respond to "owners" concern. Just keep posting what happens as you have, and try and ignore the rhetoric. I think we'd all be better off for it

 

[SueDonJ]

Marksue...do yourself a favour and the rest of the owners..dont allow yourself to get baited into an arguement with non owners....deal with the issues at hand and stay the course. There are others who for whatever reason have their opinion, and im sure in some cases their own agenda. Obviously you should respond to "owners" concern. Just keep posting what happens as you have, and try and ignore the rhetoric. I think we'd all be better off for it

You're so contentious. I'm not looking for an argument, but neither am I required to watch this debacle unfold without commenting. If you don't want to see the comments, take your disucssion private. I've said over and over again that despite my opinion of what's transpired at AOC, you folks who feel wronged should be able to take a good hard look at Marksue's failed efforts and reach the sane conclusion that if you are to have any success, you need a qualified legal representation. I have no idea if any level of success is a possibility, but I sure do recognize that your effort has no chance if you continue on as you're doing.

 

[SueDonJ]

Once again you make it sound like non-owners don't know what they are talking about. Baiting into an argument ? Please.... there are many non-owners and owners who applaud Mark's intention but think his methods are less than effective. After all, Mark is a person who created an alias to make it sounds like he agreed with his own cause. Thats pretty pathetic

That's a good point; I forgot that one. From now on we should ask for an IP address verification of any new posters who agree with Marksue's group. That will balance the "are you an owner?" question posed to every new opposing poster, won't it?

 

[Luckybee]

Fortunately for me...I follow my own advice...have a nice day all

 

[SueDonJ]

Fortunately for me...I follow my own advice...have a nice day all

Do you? It doesn't appear you were able to ignore "the rhetoric."

 

[marksue]

Just to set the record straight since Eric likes to make up stories without the facts. I never created an alias. Yes the name was created and msg sent from my IP address but it was a friend of mine who owns at the Ocean Club and he was at my home. I never felt I needed to justify anything, but I am not taking the agenda we have off target based on nonsense.

 

[Eric]

So he actually typed what you said instead of you typing it. Got it....
For the record, I wa never shooting for credibility where as you were and lost it a long time ago

Just to set the record straight since Eric likes to make up stories without the facts. I never created an alias. Yes the name was created and msg sent from my IP address but it was a friend of mine who owns at the Ocean Club and he was at my home. I never felt I needed to justify anything, but I am not taking the agenda we have off target based on nonsense.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Positive Identification.

From now on we should ask for an IP address verification of any new posters who agree with Marksue's group.

Also a thumbprint & a retinal scan & SSAN & photo ID & passport.

Can't be too careful.

Full Disclosure: I am not an owner. Plus, I've semi- lost track of the full cast of characters in this discussion topic, so I'm not endorsing or opposing anybody's causes. From what I've been able to gather from following as much of this discussion as I am able to understand, however, I'd support settling with Marriott over sharing the roof repair costs, agreeing to accept ½ a loaf sooner rather than face lengthy (& costly) court proceedings followed by an uncertain outcome later. Except for the lawyers, life is too short to get all wrapped around the axle in court cases. For the lawyers, that's all in a day's work. For everybody else, it's too much like Jarndyce v. Jarndyce. I mean, would I rather be right or would I rather be happy ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[SueDonJ]

Just to set the record straight since Eric likes to make up stories without the facts. I never created an alias. Yes the name was created and msg sent from my IP address but it was a friend of mine who owns at the Ocean Club and he was at my home. I never felt I needed to justify anything, but I am not taking the agenda we have off target based on nonsense.

But isn't that what you just did, go off target I mean, by ignoring my post commenting on several issues that are pertinent to your agenda while instead responding to Eric's subsequent off-agenda post?

Oh, and thanks for your explanation. It certainly sounds plausible.

 

[modoaruba]

Just to set the record straight since Eric likes to make up stories without the facts. I never created an alias. Yes the name was created and msg sent from my IP address but it was a friend of mine who owns at the Ocean Club and he was at my home. I never felt I needed to justify anything, but I am not taking the agenda we have off target based on nonsense.

Hey marksue,
You should not need to justify yourself.
This board has gotten out of hand with this back and forth BS.
Like was mentioned before, stay your course,stick to the issues and don't get baited by the BS.
If you fall into this abyss we all fail.
What ever happens,you tried your best for the cause you pursue.

I just cannot believe some of the posts are actually serious.
Some major attitude fixing is due if so.

Might as well watch Judge Judy or some other such nonsense.

 

[AwayWeGo]

You Typed A Mouthful.

I just cannot believe some of the posts are actually serious.

You got that right.

For instance, just about all my TUG-BBS entries are strictly for fun.

If I wanted a serious web site, I'd go with some boring URL & stay off TUG-BBS.

Is this a great country or what ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Eric]

back and forth, what does that remind me of ? Oh yeah, now I remember, opinions on any given subject on the internet. yeah, who wants that...

Hey marksue,
You should not need to justify yourself.
This board has gotten out of hand with this back and forth BS.
Like was mentioned before, stay your course,stick to the issues and don't get baited by the BS.
If you fall into this abyss we all fail.
What ever happens,you tried your best for the cause you pursue.

I just cannot believe some of the posts are actually serious.
Some major attitude fixing is due if so.

Might as well watch Judge Judy or some other such nonsense.

 

[vincenzi]

I just cannot believe some of the posts are actually serious.
Some major attitude fixing is due if so.

Some of the posts have been very mean spirited.

Away We Go, I love your posts. They make me smile.

 

[SueDonJ]

... What ever happens,you tried your best for the cause you pursue.

There's been no doubt from the very beginning that Marksue believes in the cause he's pursuing and that he's acted with the best of intentions for all AOC owners, including those who disagree with his cause. Throughout this thread there have been many statements made by folks on both sides saying the same thing.

No one can say with any certainty, though, that Marksue's best efforts would be equal to the efforts that a qualified attorney would submit, which means that there is a possibility the cause could be better served than it is. And I don't mean to intend anything argumentative, or attitude-laden or insulting by writing this. Of all the things that I question in this thread, I am still most puzzled by the fact that members of this group who feel so strongly that they've been wronged, have not retained qualified legal representation in order to make the very best of their bad situation. It's mind-boggling, truly.

 

[qlaval]

I will have a more complete recap of the board meeting in the next day or so. But to all owners of all Marriott timeshare, beware. Marriott is preventing the owner’s desires from being acted upon. For all the years Marriott has never used their votes as they have always said they would not stand in the way of the owners decisions. In fact in a phone call with Stephan Weisz the President of MVCI, he said if you do not like your board get rid of them. Well the owners had voted and they had soundly defeated Frank Knox, which until for the first time Marriott casted their B votes and voted for Frank.

What is going on? Why is Marriott preventing the owner’s wishes from going through? What is being held back from the owners? Marriott would not even let the board run the meeting. They brought in a parliamentarian person to run the meeting. Why is Marriott taking over the owner’s property? Troy and Dirk basically took over the meeting from the owners.

I will have the vote counts in a follow up post, but Frank got about 400 votes prior to Marriott's votes. He was in 3rd place and should not be on the board. Frank, you do not deserve to be on the board and should resign immediately, before we the owners vote you off.

From what I have heard there is more anger now towards the board and Marriott based on these actions.

It seems that WE (the OC Owners) can be the owners of OUR resort only if we don't threaten Marriott economics and/or plans.
Some will find that normal, others like me will find it unethical....

Let's just hope that some day we will be able to act like owners in our own house.

 

[ecwinch]

It seems that WE (the OC Owners) can be the owners of OUR resort only if we don't threaten Marriott economics and/or plans.
Some will find that normal, others like me will find it unethical....

Let's just hope that some day we will be able to act like owners in our own house.

Yes, it is an implied contract that you can remain a MARRIOTT resort if you do not threaten the corporation whose name is on the door. I do not know why this would be viewed as unethical.

If it was the Qlaval Ocean Club, I really doubt that you would continue to affiliate with the resort if the owners accused you of 10% of rhetoric that MVCI has been accused of here.

 

[marksue]

Susan,

In the beginning we tried to do this without legal representation in an effort resolve this issue in a professional manner. With Marriott's lack of response and underhanded actions, as occurred at the board meeting, we have now retained legal representation both in Aruba and the US. The attorneys are doing the work on a contingency basis as there are multiple actions under way. There are multiple tracks taking place now and as I am permitted to share what is occurring I will post it. As papers are served and I am given the ok I will share what we are doing. But since Marriott does monitor this board I will not share what is planned until it is executed.

 

[Dean]

I will have a more complete recap of the board meeting in the next day or so. But to all owners of all Marriott timeshare, beware. Marriott is preventing the owner’s desires from being acted upon. For all the years Marriott has never used their votes as they have always said they would not stand in the way of the owners decisions. In fact in a phone call with Stephan Weisz the President of MVCI, he said if you do not like your board get rid of them. Well the owners had voted and they had soundly defeated Frank Knox, which until for the first time Marriott casted their B votes and voted for Frank.

What is going on? Why is Marriott preventing the owner’s wishes from going through? What is being held back from the owners? Marriott would not even let the board run the meeting. They brought in a parliamentarian person to run the meeting. Why is Marriott taking over the owner’s property? Troy and Dirk basically took over the meeting from the owners.

I will have the vote counts in a follow up post, but Frank got about 400 votes prior to Marriott's votes. He was in 3rd place and should not be on the board. Frank, you do not deserve to be on the board and should resign immediately, before we the owners vote you off.

From what I have heard there is more anger now towards the board and Marriott based on these actions.

I'm not sure what B shares are. I'm assuming Marriott has the right to vote as an owner for the units they own which I assume would include unsold weeks used for maint, any other unsold weeks of which I doubt there are many, and any foreclosed weeks. That should be what, maybe 1000 votes or so (just a guess) at a smaller sold out resort as I assume the OC is. That's roughly the same number as are on the list we've been discussing. As I noted previously, I haven't seen the Bylaws and articles of incorporation of the OC or SC, but I wonder what the min voting numbers are, if any. At some Caribbean resorts there is a min % required to vote for round 1 and if that min is not reached, you have to have another BOD meeting. IMO, the fact they don't normally vote them is not especially relevant as they have a vested interest in the outcome. In their eyes I'm sure they don't want to turn over control to a group of Rogue Owners.

 

[ecwinch]

But since Marriott does monitor this board I will not share what is planned until it is executed.

Now I have this visual of Bill Marriott up at 3:00 am, in his bathrobe. Camera fades back and we see he is in his bedroom, room is dark except for the light of his laptop. In the background we see his bed, with his wife sound asleep.

Camera switches to a close-up, illuminated by the off-light of his LCD. A scowl comes over his face and you hear him muttering, "what are those pesky OC owners up to now". Fade to black

 

[lovearuba]

Thanks

Susan,

In the beginning we tried to do this without legal representation in an effort resolve this issue in a professional manner. With Marriott's lack of response and underhanded actions, as occurred at the board meeting, we have now retained legal representation both in Aruba and the US. The attorneys are doing the work on a contingency basis as there are multiple actions under way. There are multiple tracks taking place now and as I am permitted to share what is occurring I will post it. As papers are served and I am given the ok I will share what we are doing. But since Marriott does monitor this board I will not share what is planned until it is executed.

I appreciate all of your efforts, they mean a lot to me and my initial thoughts were that we should have started with legal actions. I was pursuaded by others that that was not fair to Marriott and that we should first give the board a chance to respond to our concerns. That track didnt work so you followed the rules and got the necessary owners to sign a letter to show the numbers you needed, that didnt work. Owners wrote to Marriotts lead person, that didnt work. An owner pleaded with Mr. Marriott at the Stockholders meeting, that did not appear to work. So it sounds like legal action is the only recourse. Thanks again. Bye for now.

 

[marksue]

Eric,

Now that is a scary visual .

 

[ecwinch]

I appreciate all of your efforts, they mean a lot to me and my initial thoughts were that we should have started with legal actions. I was pursuaded by others that that was not fair to Marriott and that we should first give the board a chance to respond to our concerns. That track didnt work so you followed the rules and got the necessary owners to sign a letter to show the numbers you needed, that didnt work. Owners wrote to Marriotts lead person, that didnt work. An owner pleaded with Mr. Marriott at the Stockholders meeting, that did not appear to work. So it sounds like legal action is the only recourse. Thanks again. Bye for now.

Skipping over one tiny part of the requirements. And the issue of informed consent.

 

[modoaruba]

Skipping over one tiny part of the requirements. And the issue of informed consent.

do you alphabetize or place your items in the cupboard in size order?

 

[marksue]

Aruba Annual Meeting (May 15, 2009) update from Allan Cohen

May 19, 2009

Dear Aruba Ocean Club Owners

Having just returned from the 2008 Aruba Ocean Annual Meeting - I am still in a state of disbelief at what was done by Marriott. Unfortunately, my last meeting as a Board member leaves me in shock and utter disgust at Marriott's total lack of respect for Aruba Ocean Club Owners. But as many owners have said to me - I was too trusting.

The Annual Meeting was not like anything I have ever seen before and was the first one that Marriott's MVCI division took complete control of. They hired at their expense a parliamentarian (one of only 35 in the nation) to run most of the meeting, they prepared two pages of rules, a proxy review staff, governance staff, security and did away with the secret ballot process for the proxies. etc. I would say that MVCI had more staff on hand then Owners in attendance. I ask you: Why would Marriott spend thousand's of dollars in sending staff and consultants to Aruba for an Owners Annual meeting?

For the Board of Directors - a total of 6268 votes were cast. Marriott had at total of 1730 votes (1500 B share votes and 230 shares - ( they said the they had bought back 115 weeks (2 votes per week) thus Marriott had a total of 1730 votes.)

According to my notes the results from the election for the two vacancies on the Board were as follows: (I called and Marriott will not release their vote count information to me at this time)

Andrew Bury 1034
Anthony Lifrieri 3116
Frank Knox 2112
Frederick O'Toole 6

For the first time in the history of the Aruba Ocean Club - Marriott MVCI's division headed by Dirk Schavemaker, and Troy Asche cast votes for the A Owner members for election. For the past 9 years, I and Owners have been told by MVCI President Steve Weisz and other Marriott executives that Marriott does not vote in an Board election for Owners (A members), because they feel that the Owners should have their say and Marriott would not want to influence the election of Owner Members. Well, apparently Marriott no longer feels this way!

What I witnessed on Friday was MVCI staff under the watchful eye of (MI) Marriott Internationals Resort General Manager, Rick Zeolla's was a total disregard for the Owners wishes as reflected in the Owner votes. They cast their Marriott proxies for Frank Knox, the current President who would have been soundly defeated but for the Marriott votes..

Even through the Board and Marriott had nominated the other three candidates their casting of their votes changed the outcome of the election.

This total disregard for the Owners wishes is a prime example of their control of all actions of this Board. What are they afraid of?

All my motions to insure transparency for Owners, to insure that Owners have a say in any attempted Surf Club integration, as well as getting the final reports on the roof, structural and environmental issues that concern Owners, were either defeated by the Boards/MVCI or called "out of order" by Marriott's hired Parliamentarian.

Frank Knox admitted that the reports were not final and that he has decided to use Marriott consultants (structural contractors etc.) rather than follow up with our own hired independent structural engineers who had visited the site and made recommendations.

Remember, that all Owners had received an update last month from the Board Officers stating that everything is fine, well how could they make such a statement when the final report does not exist.

I strongly believe based on the facts as we know them that until the final report is complete and all our consultant's concerns are openly addressed, we should not accept Marriott's reports as fact. We are not being told what all these repairs are costing us and we are now investing over $14 million in refurbishment.

As a fellow Owner, I urge that you continue to stay alert, this is your property and it is costing you dearly. Your recent assessment and maintenance bill's are just an example of how Marriott has turned a wonderful vacation ownership experience into a disaster.

We should not let this Board and Marriott disregard the wishes of the Owners. Frank Knox should resign immediately and a call for a fair Owner election not controlled by Marriott should take place.

Prior to this meeting I spoke at the Marriott International Annual Meeting (*see below) in Washington and addressed my concern to Arne Sorenson - Arne.Sorenson@marriott.com the new Marriott President. No response to date . Since he is new on the job, I suggest that you write to him on how you feel about MVCI's actions and the issues at the Aruba Ocean Club.

I urge that you stay in contact with the Concerned Owners group thru me at C20854@aol.com or Mark at live4sonnj@aol.com. Many Owners are devoting their own time and resources to try to correct the injustices that are occurring at the hands of MVCI.

The facts continue to be clear - MVCI never disclosed the condition of our building prior to marketing and selling it. We as Owners have been paying the price for this with all our repairs/maintenance costs and all attempts to get Marriott International to intervene and do what is right and equitable have failed.

I want to thank the Owners of the over 1,000 weeks who listed me on their proxies.
I will keep providing you with current and reliable information as long as you want.
Please stay in touch.

Allan

Allan S. Cohen


PS: I just received news that John Moyer (5 week owner) who attended the Annual meeting with me on Friday had a major stroke yesterday. During our visit and upon his return,John could not stop telling me how seething he was on what he witnessed by Marriott at the Annual Meeting. He had met with Dirk and Troy for hours in January to discuss issues and had been hopeful they would listen to the Owners. I am sending all our prayers to John.
====================================================================
*This is the statement I gave at Marriott corporate annual meeting May 1, 2009. I was hopeful since both Mr Marriott and Mr Sorenson were attentive and polite and thanked me for my comments, but now after Fridays Annual meeting in Aruba - it seems that they do not care. We will see!

MR. MARRIOTT AND MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, I AM ALLAN COHEN A SHAREHOLDER, CURRENT BOARD MEMBER AND FORMER PRESIDENT OF MARRIOTT'S ARUBA OCEAN CLUB, AS WELL AS A MUTIPLE OWNER OF THREE DIFFERENT VACATION CLUB RESORTS AND A NEIGHBOR IN POTOMAC

I HAVE BEEN A LOYAL MARRIOTT SUPPORTER - AND BELIEVE IN THE MARRIOTT BRAND, BUT I AM CONCERNED OVER -

YOUR RECENT ANNOUNCED DECREASE OF OVER 30% IN REVENUE FROM YOUR TIMESHARE DIVISION

I DO NOT FEEL THAT THIS CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO THE ECONOMY ALONE BUT ALSO BECAUSE OF SERIOUS OWNER CONCERNS AND LACK OF FAITH BY SOME IN THE MARRIOTT BRAND NAME

WHAT BEGAN AS A SMALL GROUP OF UNHAPPY OWNERS IN ARUBA 8 MONTHS AGO HAS GROWN TO OVER 1000 OF THE 9,000 OWNERS. ADDING THEIR FAMILIES, FRIENDS, AND BUSINESS ASSOCIATES THIS NUMBER CONTINUES TO GROW.

IN ADDITION WITH OVER 400,000 TIMESHARE OWNERS WORLDWIDE, A THREAT OF A BRAND BOYCOTT BY SOME AS WELL AS A NEGATIVE MARRIOTT BLOG VIEWED OVER 48,000 TIMES SINCE OCT. 2008 WITH OVER 900 POSTINGS, WHICH YOUR MVCI STAFF MONITOR - SHOULD GIVE THIS BOARD AND EVERY SHAREHOLDER REASON FOR CONCERN.

ALTHOUGH SOME OF THE ISSUES AT THE ARUBA OCEAN CLUB ARE UNIQUE - I HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH SOME OF THE OTHER 50 TIMESHARE BOARDS AND THEY SEE SOME CONCERNS AMONG THEIR OWNERS OVER MARRIOTT RELATED ISSUES.

WE ALL PURCHASED BECAUSE OF THE REPUTATION THAT YOU AND YOUR FAMILY REPRESENT - THE MARRIOTT NAME WAS THE STIMULUS OFFERING OWNERS AND GUESTS PEACE OF MIND AND AN UNBLEMISHED REPUTATION.

I AM CONCERNED THAT UNLESS YOU TAKE ACTION NOW - THE DISSENSION WILL ONLY CONTINUE.

I URGE YOU TO SET UP AN OWNER ADVOCACY OFFICE TO TAKE A FRESH AND INDEPENDENT LOOK AND DEAL WITH THE UNRESOLVED ISSUES THAT CONTINUE FACING VACATION CLUB OWNERS.

I WANT TO ASSURE YOU THAT OWNERS ARE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT, BUT WE MUST WORK TOGETHER IN A PROFESSIONAL MANNER. WE MUST BUILD BACK THE TRUST IN THE MARRIOTT NAME -

I AM CONFIDENT THAT WITH YOUR AND MR. SORENSON'S LEADERSHIP, WE CAN BRING BACK THE LOYALTY OF OUR TIMESHARE OWNERS. WE NEED NOT BE ADVERSARIAL.

I TRULY BELIEVE THAT IF WE CAN WORK TOGETHER THE MARRIOTT BRAND WILL BECOME EVEN STRONGER

I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU - THANK YOU ALLAN COHEN

=================================================================

 

[modoaruba]

Allan,

I myself have found it a pleasure in our communications in the past.
The relationship you had as the president of the board with the owners was exemplatory.
That type of trait is a gift.
Marriott lost a great asset.
Now there is a feeling of disconnect with the Corporation and many owners.
Very sad.