Marriot Vacation Clubs Resorts to move to Hotel Categories

[dioxide45]

Just to clarify, resale from a 3rd party?

Yes, it was a third party resale purchase.

 

[TJCNewYork]

I don't understand how state statutes could limit Marriott

Since MVCI's vacation ownership model involves deeded property, MVCI is subject to comply with federal, state and in some cases, municipal statutes. Points-based timeshare systems may be subject to statutes that are less restrictive.

For statutes that regulate the timeshare industry, ARDA is a good starting point: UNITED STATES TIMESHARE REGULATION MATRIX

As a best practice, I choose to opt-out from participating in market research conducted by 3rd parties.

 

[dioxide45]

Since MVCI's vacation ownership model involves deeded property, MVCI is subject to comply with federal, state and in some cases, municipal statutes. Points-based timeshare systems may be subject to statutes that are less restrictive.

For statutes that regulate the timeshare industry, ARDA is a good starting point: UNITED STATES TIMESHARE REGULATION MATRIX

Many of those points based timeshares are deeded property. Even one of the best known points based timeshare, Disney Vacation Club, is deeded. Once again I request specific sections of the law that allow Marriott to not impliment a vacation points exchange program.

As a best practice, I choose to opt-out from participating in market research conducted by 3rd parties.

While this may be your best practice, it does not make the survey any less legitimate.

 

[TJCNewYork]

Terry - Thanks for appending David Babich's signature and the contact e-mail. THAT information, support@hcdi.net clearly identifies that the survey was conducted by a vendor, HCD Research, Inc.

HCD Research has done market research work for Disney, Wyndham and Starwood which explains why other TUGers saw parallels in the concept descriptions. As said earlier, the typos and grammatical errors in the survey is uncharacteristic of Marriott.

Now, I know who to direct my questions to and how best to present them. The follow-up is greatly appreciated. THAT'S TEAMWORK!

Are you suggesting that this survey was not authentic?
I still have the email.

 

[TJCNewYork]

Many of those points based timeshares are deeded property. Even one of the best known points based timeshare, Disney Vacation Club, is deeded. Once again I request specific sections of the law that allow Marriott to not impliment a vacation points exchange program.

That's probably out of scope for MVCI Owner Services, but will try and track it down.

While this may be your best practice, it does not make the survey any less legitimate.

Moot point. Terry appended the signature and contact e-mail. Now we know for sure that MVCI hired HCD Research to conduct the survey. So you were indeed right that Marriott hired a 3rd party.

 

[davidvel]

Reservation rights vs. trading

Since MVCI's vacation ownership model involves deeded property, MVCI is subject to comply with federal, state and in some cases, municipal statutes. Points-based timeshare systems may be subject to statutes that are less restrictive.

For statutes that regulate the timeshare industry, ARDA is a good starting point: UNITED STATES TIMESHARE REGULATION MATRIX

I am with DIOXIDE45 on this one. My mantra to everyone for the past many months is to distinguish your comments in your posts between your rights to reserve and use your Marriott week (which are deeded rights that you bought directly or resale) vs. a trading program (which is governed by its own rules that you agree to).

These are distinct issues which everyone must understand. Your rights to reserve (ie. 12 months/13 months), gold/platinum/bronze, and use, sell or rent your deeded condo interest are up to you and cannot be changed.

While you can "deposit" your properly reserved week with any organization you want who will take it (ie. redweek, Interval, etc), you are then subject to their rules.

Marriott's rumored internal trading system is just another trading system (ie. redweek, Interval, etc). They can make any rules, charge you any fee or offer you any points structure they want and you agree to their rules if you join their program. What they cannot do is UNILATERALLY alter your deeded reservation and occupancy rights (unless you agree by joining their program.)

 

[TJCNewYork]

I am with DIOXIDE45 on this one. My mantra to everyone for the past many months is to distinguish your comments in your posts between your rights to reserve and use your Marriott week (which are deeded rights that you bought directly or resale) vs. a trading program (which is governed by its own rules that you agree to).

These are distinct issues which everyone must understand. Your rights to reserve (ie. 12 months/13 months), gold/platinum/bronze, and use, sell or rent your deeded condo interest are up to you and cannot be changed.

While you can "deposit" your properly reserved week with any organization you want who will take it (ie. redweek, Interval, etc), you are then subject to their rules.

Marriott's rumored internal trading system is just another trading system (ie. redweek, Interval, etc). They can make any rules, charge you any fee or offer you any points structure they want and you agree to their rules if you join their program. What they cannot do is UNILATERALLY alter your deeded reservation and occupancy rights (unless you agree by joining their program.)

Great approach, it may be useful on Insiders. MVCI's Florida Club illustrates your example of 'another trading system'. Are there any lawyers here? Maybe someone can explain why the Florida Club model cannot be extended. That is what you are getting at Dioxide45?

 

[dioxide45]

Great approach, it may be useful on Insiders. MVCI's Florida Club illustrates your example of 'another trading system'. Are there any lawyers here? Maybe someone can explain why the Florida Club model cannot be extended. That is what you are getting at Dioxide45?

I don't think Marriott wants to expand the Florida Club model system wide. There is little profit for them to make with the current setup. 400k owners by $4 extra to have the FC, it only works out to $1.6MM annual additional profit. Marriott will look for better profit growth centers to increase the bottom line.

While some have used the Florida Club for some great reservations and exchanges, it has its limits with the 6 month window and does not appeal to everyone. A points system with better flexibility is more likely what they are looking at.

 

[TJCNewYork]

400k owners by $4 extra to have the FC, it only works out to $1.6MM annual additional profit.

I believe Marriott calculates potential revenue by the number of weeks owned. (400k owners own one to multiple weeks)

A points system with better flexibility is more likely what they are looking at.

Not necessarily. Expanding offerings around core competencies is one thing Marriott is very good at doing. Forming a network of ~smaller~ clubs would cost less, could be rolled out incrementally, give owners more usage options and be more consistent with an elite club culture than trying to duplicate and/or replace what is in place system-wide.

While some have used the Florida Club for some great reservations and exchanges, it has its limits with the 6 month window and does not appeal to everyone.

Limits are a reality, but the Elite club mentality works, is cost efficient, easy for Owner Services to fulfill, can be improved and enjoys popularity among owners. Why fix something that is not broke?

An alternative would be to create more Elite clubs. Multiple week owners could choose which club to assign each week. This would satisfy Davidvel's mantra and give owners an incentive to purchase more weeks at the resorts that are affiliated with the clubs they want to experience. Marriott's network of elite clubs can overlap. A resort could be affiliated with two or more elite clubs. An Elite Club network combined with a points-based wrapper would be very consistent with Marriott Rewards and probably work.

 

[dioxide45]

I believe Marriott calculates potential revenue by the number of weeks owned. (400k owners own one to multiple weeks)

This is very true. Even if there is 800K ownership weeks within the system that only equates to doubling that $1.6MM extra revenue. IMO they would be looking for something with far more sustainable revenue growth.

Limits are a reality, but the Elite club mentality works, is cost efficient, easy for Owner Services to fulfill, can be improved and enjoys popularity among owners. Why fix something that is not broke?

I think a reality check is needed here. From reading many posts on here I don't think most owners have think of the Florida Club as a fantastic program. It is a nice perk for the cost for people that use it, but it is far from wildly popular as you suggest.

While I don't have statistics, I would guess that a small percentage of owners in the club actually take advantage of it.

 

[TJCNewYork]

This is very true. Even if there is 800K ownership weeks within the system that only equates to doubling that $1.6MM extra revenue. IMO they would be looking for something with far more sustainable revenue growth.

In this economy, incremental growth of any kind is desireable over loss.

I think a reality check is needed here. From reading many posts on here I don't think most owners have think of the Florida Club as a fantastic program. It is a nice perk for the cost for people that use it, but it is far from wildly popular as you suggest.

While I don't have statistics, I would guess that a small percentage of owners in the club actually take advantage of it.

If TUG's 'Where do you own' is an indicator of participation, MVCI members at TUG are one thousandths of one percent. Owner Services is on the front line and actively engaged. Florida is a drive-to destination vs. Aruba or Hawaii. Given belt tightening, Owner Services reports Florida Club exchanges are on the upswing. Weeks are available at the 25th anniversary discount and Sales reports that developer weeks are moving.

Compared to 400,000 owners, Marriott has 30,000,000 members in Marriott Rewards. Marriott has successfully created an award-winning Elite club culture. TUG discussion about Elite Rollover Nights plus Double Nights is self-evident. Reaching the highly coveted Gold or Platinum Elite status is a desirable outcome. FWIW, the warm reception and enthusiasm speaks to a reality different than one you suggest.

 

[danuty]

Elite/Gold Status Credits

We are currently staying at the Grand Residence in Tahoe which we purchased as a Getaway thru II. When we checked in on Friday, our rewards number was added and the reservation now shows up on our rewards account. I will let you know if we get 7 nights credit vs. 14 nights credit (current double night promo). We did receive 7 night credit for our Getaway at Desert Palm Springs Villas in March.

In regards to blackouts and using points to purchase MVC weeks, we booked Timberlodge for 4th of July week through Marriott on January 15th (date blackouts were lifted). We thought there would be no blackout dates for MVC rentals. We had to pay for the first three nights and used points for 4nights. We couldn't use points for the entire week because July 3, 4 and 5th were blackout dates. Will blackout dates still apply with the increased point system for MVC rentals?

 

[dioxide45]

Will blackout dates still apply with the increased point system for MVC rentals?

Yes. The MVCI properties are not participating in the no blackout date policy. There is no guaranty that people will trade their weeks in for points to be used for rentals or reward bookings.

 

[taffy19]

Marriott's rumored internal trading system is just another trading system (ie. redweek, Interval, etc). They can make any rules, charge you any fee or offer you any points structure they want and you agree to their rules if you join their program. What they cannot do is UNILATERALLY alter your deeded reservation and occupancy rights (unless you agree by joining their program.)

Exactly. You still have your basic rights so a class action lawsuit wouldn't make any sense.

Also, if you agree to the terms of a new internal exchange system then you agree by their newer terms whatever they are. If they let a direct buyer make an exchange earlier than a re-sale buyer can do, then this would be an incentive to buy direct from the Marrott or giving them a better view, if available. They have many options to make it more favorable for a direct buyer because they are in control of the floating system as well as the room assignments.

RCI even went a step further by renting out the best weeks that timeshare owners are depositing so these weeks are not even available anymore to other timeshare owners. What a rip-off that is but people agreed to these terms too when they made an exchange.

The whole timesharing industry is in favor of the big developers today. This wasn't that way when they sold fixed time and fixed units but that made it harder for them to sell the less favorable seasons so they made it "flexible" as that sounds a better way to the buyer but it isn't true. A fixed unit is equally flexible if you decide to make an exchange but it will cost you an additional exchange fee. That's all.

 

[TJCNewYork]

Marriott is going to take someones 270,000 points and give me a whole120,000 points for my 3 bedroom St Kitts. That's a 150,000 point difference! Seeing this years M/F are over $1700 (I could by 120,000points for $1500) How about atleast splitting the difference with the owners or letting us owners rent the T/S for what other owners are getting in point value?? Kind of like how SVN works in a way, maybe. With all of this take, take, take they need to look at the owner points now.

Winslow,

While TUG is the best venue for discussing the mechanics of timeshare ownership, Insiders is the most effective venue for discussing ideas to improve Marriott Rewards. Why? The forum is hosted by Marriott Rewards.

Marriott Vacation Club and Marriott Rewards are working very hard to achieve brand integration. This is most evident in the recent announcement about MVCI resorts moved into Hotel Categories. But the ground that needs covering stretches a long way. Candidly, Marriott Rewards experts know very little about vacation ownership and so the challenge is to shorten the learning curve so they can develop programs that owners will enjoy.

Consider posting your ideas at Insiders: http://www.marriottrewardsinsiders.marriott.com

 

[TJCNewYork]

Grande Vista (Cat 6) 2008 MF Platinum $819.53 vs. Ocean Pointe (Cat 5) 2008 MF Platinum $1142.40 ? Not even close.

As a point of interest, a quick scan of the 2009 Estimated Operating Budgets* for Grande Vista and Ocean Pointe shows 3 budget items where Ocean Pointe is 2x that of Grande Vista and 6 budget items where Ocean Pointe is about 1.5x of Grande Vista.

Real estate is all about location and oceanfront is prime. With prime comes high taxes, higher maintenance (salt spray) and higher insurance premiums (wind/flood). What's unusual about Ocean Pointe is the budget for Loss Prevention/Security which is more than 2x that of Grande Vista. Without surprise, OP Platinum week taxes are $262.83 compared to GV Platinum week $141.71



*D/L from my-vacationclub.com

 

[TJCNewYork]

Many of those points based timeshares are deeded property. Even one of the best known points based timeshare, Disney Vacation Club, is deeded. Once again I request specific sections of the law that allow Marriott to not impliment a vacation points exchange program.

For discussion purposes, Florida's statute, 721.56 Management of multisite timeshare plans; reservation systems; demand balancing seems like a good place to start. While this statute does not prohibit points-based exchange programs, the cost to comply is prohibitive.

The law protects owner usage and prescribes a fairly complex process including funds escrow. Failure to comply is a felony. My hunch is that implementing a vacation points exchange program with all the bells and whistles needed to manage demand load balancing and funds escrow would incur implementation costs that MVCI's management and shareholders see as prohibitive.

If the majority of MVCI owners favored a vacation points exchange program, Marriott could negotiate with the COA (condominium owners associations) to add a line item to the annual maintenance budget whereby implementation is a shared cost and embedded into the Management Fee or formulated as a separate budget item to be approved by proxy.

In a cost-sharing scenario, one of the critical success factors would be vision and leadership; another would be significant change management (as you and others pointed out previously). Given the perceived and actual benefits that an additional usage option like a points-based exchanged program might have, cost-sharing is a likely solution. While there is no shortage of opinion on this topic, there appears to be a dry well when it comes to vision and leadership, IMO.