list of all point programs

[TUGBrian]

also to clarify....

I have no doubt we can find rare examples where the round peg just wont go in the round hole... im happy to try to work on solutions for that as we move along. but in this instance the goal is to cover the vast majority of listings members would be posting in the marketplace for sale and for rent.

and how to properly display those listings to potential renters/owners in the easiest and least complicated fashion possible!

if we make it so buyers have to navigate thru 7 layers of different point systems, folks are going to just click off!


think of it as "I wanna sell my parents marriott points ownership they left me, what do I click on when posting my ad"?

and

"marriott points seem cool, ive been reading up, how do I find whats currently for sale"?

 

[Mongoose]

also to clarify....

I have no doubt we can find rare examples where the round peg just wont go in the round hole... im happy to try to work on solutions for that as we move along. but in this instance the goal is to cover the vast majority of listings members would be posting in the marketplace for sale and for rent.

and how to properly display those listings to potential renters/owners in the easiest and least complicated fashion possible!

if we make it so buyers have to navigate thru 7 layers of different point systems, folks are going to just click off!


think of it as "I wanna sell my parents marriott points ownership they left me, what do I select"?

and

"marriott points seem cool, ive been reading up, how do I find whats currently for sale"?

What if your table has two columns. The first the "Master Brand" and to the right the list of offerings/programs. This would work will with the big ones that have grown through acquisition. For the little one there would just be one row.

 

[SueDonJ]

that was my thought as well, and was hoping that "marriott / abound" and "vistana / abound" might cover that with a blanket?

Ah. Five thousand words and finally I'm on the same track.

I would still not use "Vistana / Abound" in the list. For these four pure-points systems that come under the gigantic Marriott Vacations Worldwide umbrella, I'd use:

Marriott Abound Trust Points
Vistana Westin Flex Points
Vistana Sheraton Flex Points
Vistana Westin Adventuras Points

The difference is that Abound Points originate and are sold/resold as Abound points, with no underlying ownership that requires an election to use them to book via the Abound Trust and/or the Abound Exchange Company. It also isn't necessary for an Abound Trust Points purchaser to be an existing Marriott owner or Vistana owner or any other timeshare owner. Abound Trust Points are the product that Marriott currently sells at their US-based resorts no matter who's buying.

The other three are still known as Vistana products and they require an election to use them as Abound Exchange Points in the Abound Exchange Company. They're resold as the Westin- or Sheraton-branded product, not as Abound Trust or Exchange Points. Their eligibility to remain enrolled in Abound might transfer upon resale, but again it's not a permanent exchange for Abound Trust or Exchange Points.

 

[SueDonJ]

also to clarify....

I have no doubt we can find rare examples where the round peg just wont go in the round hole... im happy to try to work on solutions for that as we move along. but in this instance the goal is to cover the vast majority of listings members would be posting in the marketplace for sale and for rent.

and how to properly display those listings to potential renters/owners in the easiest and least complicated fashion possible!

if we make it so buyers have to navigate thru 7 layers of different point systems, folks are going to just click off!


think of it as "I wanna sell my parents marriott points ownership they left me, what do I click on when posting my ad"?

and

"marriott points seem cool, ive been reading up, how do I find whats currently for sale"?

Oh gosh, I'd love it if you could design plug-ins for ads that would erase those questions but honestly, almost 13 years since Marriott introduced the Destination-Club-Now-Known-As-Abound and the forum is still full of posts asking exactly that and many others just like those! I don't think that it's ever going to be a good idea to consolidate everything that comes under the Marriott Vacations Worldwide to one TUG forum - and I KNOW that you don't want that either! Nobody does! So for me, thinking of Abound as a Marriott brand and Westin/Sheraton as Vistana brands keeps the separation in place when we're talking purchasing/reselling. Granted, I don't browse ads at all but I think that separating them according to the actual product that's being sold and not according to how it may be used is the simplest way to do it. For example, Westin Flex points may be exchanged for Abound Exchange points for usage, but a seller of Westin Flex points is selling the product and not the usage.

 

[TUGBrian]

well the table is just how im keeping track of the names, these names will be used to create essentially new "review pages" (no reviews will go in them)

they will also be used to assign resorts to the various programs for listing linking purposes.

 

[TUGBrian]

Marriott Abound Trust Points
Vistana Westin Flex Points
Vistana Sheraton Flex Points
Vistana Westin Adventuras Points

this seems extremely reasonable!

 

[heitmullerj02]

Grand Pacifc, GPX

 

[Sandy VDH]

How you buy or sell a wyndham provides a slight variation of rules on how you can use it during ARP provided it is converted to points in the first place, and since this was a list of points system, I took that to be the underlying assumption, but in the end they are all points in the same system.

 

[SueDonJ]

this seems extremely reasonable!

It does, doesn't it? Give some credit to @dioxide45 who manages 95% of the time to adjust my focus from eighteen thousand words to eighteen.

 

[TUGBrian]

ok, heres the current final list (dont worry, stuff can get changed etc)....

will still need to add a default photo and description to all of these as we move forward.

by default all these are "linked" to resorts within them based on name (ie bluegreen named resorts linked to bluegreen points)...but thats goign to take some work to sort out 100% in the background.)

TUG Search Results ForTUG's Top Rated Resorts

TUG Resorts Search,, TUG's Top Rated Resorts

tug2.com

but for now when posting new point listings in the marketplace, these will be the options.

 

[Mongoose]

ok, heres the current final list (dont worry, stuff can get changed etc)....

will still need to add a default photo and description to all of these as we move forward.

by default all these are "linked" to resorts within them based on name (ie bluegreen named resorts linked to bluegreen points)...but thats goign to take some work to sort out 100% in the background.)

TUG Search Results ForTUG's Top Rated Resorts

TUG Resorts Search,, TUG's Top Rated Resorts

tug2.com

but for now when posting new point listings in the marketplace, these will be the options.

Looks great!

 

[TUGBrian]

lotta data going to have to get moved around behind the scenes before the searches/listing results all show up properly!

but this should be a much better way moving forward of sorting/displaying points listings.

 

[Bill4728]

HGVC isn't points but a deeded week product which can be converted to points. BUT HVC (or DRI) is a point based program. HGVC shouldn't be included since all it does by doing so is to continue to confuse people about HGVC and HVC.

 

[TUGBrian]

I thought we decided that until the actual change took place, for the sake of existing listings/etc it was going to stay with that name.

unless someone has a better way to differentiate right now between hgvc, hvc, dri, and embarc points....im all ears.

sofar we have had a reasonable solution for hyatt, and marriott...if there was one for this I may have missed it?

 

[Mongoose]

HGVC isn't points but a deeded week product which can be converted to points. BUT HVC (or DRI) is a point based program. HGVC shouldn't be included since all it does by doing so is to continue to confuse people about HGVC and HVC.

Not to mention with the pending Hyatt change HVC will also mean Hyatt Vacation Club

 

[Eric B]

HGVC isn't points but a deeded week product which can be converted to points. BUT HVC (or DRI) is a point based program. HGVC shouldn't be included since all it does by doing so is to continue to confuse people about HGVC and HVC.

If you go to the current version of the Marketplace listings on TUG2 for points for sale and filter it by using the name "Hilton" you will see quite a few listings of HGVC ownerships despite the fact that they are deeded weeks eligible for use as points rather than merely points. IMHO it's simpler to include them in the listing as being a points-based ownership system. That's also how Redweek lists them, having a points system.

I don't have that much experience with HGVC, having only owned there for a short time, but it does strike me that there are only a few places where the system behaves as though it's a week that I can convert to points rather than a bucket of points I can use to reserve a week. From the user perspective, it seems like a week that can be converted to points when the default is a week long reservation, which is the case for the penthouse studio I own at the Quin - it is a fixed week fixed unit ownership that I have automatically reserved and have to cancel to use as points. My other ownerships show up in my account as a bucket of points I can use to reserve a week with during the appropriate interval.

 

[TUGBrian]

If you go to the current version of the Marketplace listings on TUG2 for points for sale and filter it by using the name "Hilton" you will see quite a few listings of HGVC ownerships despite the fact that they are deeded weeks eligible for use as points rather than merely points. IMHO it's simpler to include them in the listing as being a points-based ownership system. That's also how Redweek lists them, having a points system.

that wont change with the new system.

however its still important that folks be able to properly identify what they are selling.

I dont think there is a realistic way we can incorporate all the different nuances of week/point/hybrid/whatever systems in just the names themselves.... vs creating a simple solution to quickly and easily identify what someone is offering for sale or for rent.

our 3 main categories for this are fixed week, floating week, and points.

within those 3 we must provide the ability for not only members to be able to easily post listings, but potential buyers and renters be able to search and identify listings for what they are actually looking for.

even something as simple as "HGVC points" is fairly easily to differentiate from a fixed or floating week at a hilton branded resort.

 

[dioxide45]

There is a difference between selling and renting. The lists wouldn’t be the same. Someone shouldn’t list HGVC points for sale but they may list them for rent. If someone is selling HGVC they should list a week for sale. If they are renting they could possibly rent points or a week. This is of course ignoring that renting HGVC point isn’t really allowed.

 

[Eric B]

There is a difference between selling and renting. The lists wouldn’t be the same. Someone shouldn’t list HGVC points for sale but they may list them for rent. If someone is selling HGVC they should list a week for sale. If they are renting they could possibly rent points or a week. This is of course ignoring that renting HGVC point isn’t really allowed.

IMHO, it's really a matter of perspective. There are currently dozens of HGVC ownerships listed as being points for sale when what is actually occurring is someone is trying to sell a deeded week. You and I and many others will understand that they aren't really selling points but I'm not convinced that the vast majority of users of the classified ad systems on TUG2, Redweek, etc., really care enough to make the distinction. I think we are probably better off recognizing that people think of selling such an ownership as selling the point allocation. I am quite happy being pedantic at times myself about some things but do try to recognize things like language that I will never be able to change. This point about points is probably such a thing and if the system gets set up so that people can't list how many points their HGVC ownership is worth because what they are really selling is a week rather than points, they will react rationally and find some other place to list it. I don't view that as a good outcome for TUG but do accept that it's not my decision to make.

On the other hand, I would probably modify the list so that it includes HGVC but doesn't refer to the product as being HGVC points.

 

[sponger76]

B

IMHO, it's really a matter of perspective. There are currently dozens of HGVC ownerships listed as being points for sale when what is actually occurring is someone is trying to sell a deeded week. You and I and many others will understand that they aren't really selling points but I'm not convinced that the vast majority of users of the classified ad systems on TUG2, Redweek, etc., really care enough to make the distinction. I think we are probably better off recognizing that people think of selling such an ownership as selling the point allocation. I am quite happy being pedantic at times myself about some things but do try to recognize things like language that I will never be able to change. This point about points is probably such a thing and if the system gets set up so that people can't list how many points their HGVC ownership is worth because what they are really selling is a week rather than points, they will react rationally and find some other place to list it. I don't view that as a good outcome for TUG but do accept that it's not my decision to make.

On the other hand, I would probably modify the list so that it includes HGVC but doesn't refer to the product as being HGVC points.

BlueGreen is the same way. A lot of people list it as points but those deeds actually have an underlying fixed week. People may fixate on the points, but the actual underlying property does matter. With BG, you can use your points anywhere or elect (more than 13 months out IIRC) to use your specific deeded time. And for resale, you can only utilize bonus time bookings at the home resort for your deed (retail owners can use bonus time at any resort), so the underlying property isn't trivial.

Personally, I would list anything with an underlying week as a week, but there should be a way to list the points it converts to (only if resales can convert, so not needed for MVC) so if someone is searching for points it leads them to the original week listing so they can see what they are ACTUALLY considering as a purchase. However, I realize that programming-wise that's most likely too huge of a task.

 

[TUGBrian]

just a quick search on all hilton active listings.

maybe 25-30% of them the owners chose to post a POINTS ad (can ignore what the name of the points program is at this point).

I did not see any listed for rent (as points), so thats probably not a significant issue at the moment....likely because hilton doesnt allow you to rent/swap points...and thus noone would ever post a rental for hilton points. Did see one exchange for hilton points though?

I also saw numerous regular fixed/floating week resales that simply mentioned the alottment of points and the season that came with said ownership.




I think at the end of the day its a difficult decision but...

1. hilton DOES have a points program, and it needs to be identified with a clear name.
2. folks can choose to list their ownership as a fixed, floaing, or points category in the current marketplace, as well as the new marketplace.


I also believe there are plenty of hilton owners who believe they own "points".... and there are plenty of buyers out there who want to buy into the hilton points program, and I think the goal needs to be to lean towards the most simplistic approach that results in people who are LOOKING for hilton listings...are able to FIND hilton listings as easily as possible.

you could have the most accurate listing on earth, and if half the folks that want to buy it cant find it....that doesnt help anyone.

I will say that our design moving forward was to ensure that:

1. post a fixed/floating week for a specific resort = listing shows up when searching for that resort...as well as on the resort review page itself.
2. post a POINTS listing in a specific system = listing shows up in searches for points in that system...as well as on ALL resorts linked to that system.


i agree completely that systems like dri/hicv/ heck even vistana/etc where the points dont/cant/wont transfer to the resale buyer result in a bit of an issue...but many SELLERS dont even know that is the case. I think it would be next to impossible to try to maintain individual point system rules programatically within the system itself...but ill see what can be done.

for instance, only allowing someone to post a points listing for HICV at the 3 resorts where those points transfer to the resale buyer...and the rest you CANT post a points listing for because they wont transfer. however I can see an endless number of emails from buyers asking why they cant post their orange lake units for sale that comes with 160,000 points!

as mentioned above, if either side (owners posting, or potential buyers/renters browsing) arent seeing what they are looking for or find it cumbersome...they are just going to go elsewhere.

 

[wrb1952]

Still have deeded property with RCI Weeks

 

[TUGBrian]

fixed and floating week listings are not impacted by this. this is simply a new way of posting and displaying point based listings!

 

[pedro47]

Confusion, Confusion there are so many difference point programs on thread post #1 LISTED by TUGBRIAN.

How can anyone understand all these differences timeshare point programs?

Tuggers we are blessed for having this website. IMHO.

 

[TUGBrian]

and even more fun when you throw in RCI points....which is a flavor all its own!