Is this a good deal? 16,000 points at seaworld HGVC! I paid $2000. I can use these points anywhere I believe, correct? Need some honest answers! Thank

[Wildest]

Just looking for some honest answers on this deal. About to pay $2000. Seaworld HGVC. $2500 yearly maintenance.

 

[Wildest]

Hopefully you can see what I’m purchasing!


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[gggllm]

You are not buying from developer, you are buying from a real working class people. The less you pay, the less they receive. The more you pay, the more they receive.

 

[HuskerATL]

It sounds like a two intervals on one contract or two contracts that are 2 bed gold season. The points are usable everywhere in HGVC/HC and a decent price if you are ok with the MFs. For me, the MFs are too high and that is why they are selling it for that price. If you get it, you will have full use of the HGVC system but would not be in the Max program, if that is important.

You need to calculate in the closing/activation fees also which will add on another $2k or so.

 

[Wildest]

@HuskerATL It appears they are paying all the closing on the property.


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[HuskerATL]

That makes it better. Hilton still bills the new owner the point activation fee and the club fee plus 2024 MFs. The MFs are what you pay forever and if you are okay with those, then this is about as good of a deal as you can get.

 

[Wildest]

That makes it better. Hilton still bills the new owner the point activation fee and the club fee plus 2024 MFs. The MFs are what you pay forever and if you are okay with those, then this is about as good of a deal as you can get.

Thanks @HuskerATL I see you are very active in this community and really appreciate your insight!


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[GT75]

Since it looks like this is two weeks, you will have two activation fees (I believe it is actually $655/week now).

 

[GT75]

Of the 32K current years pts, 16000 will expire at the end of this year and other 16000 will need to be saved into next year for a fee (for around $200).

Did you say which property this is?

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

MF’s are too high for me, even if it was free. On top of that, I think those MF’s are 2023 and the 2024 might be $2772, which is over $.17/point.

Edit to add: To give you a real life example of the value of low MF's, I just completed a 5 night stay (Sat-Thurs..so two weekend nights) for which I used 7328 points. My avg cost/pt in MF's is around $.10. That room cost me $732 or $147/night. Your cost for that same room would be $1245 or just under $250/night. My original points cost me an average of about $.37/point whereas you're looking at $.125/point. Obviously a better deal on the front end for you, but that original purchase price never costs you more $ after you've bought. MF's will always increase and I think if you have any idea of using this beyond 5 years, you are better off with a low MF deed.

 

[HedonisticEpicurean]

You are not buying from developer, you are buying from a real working class people. The less you pay, the less they receive. The more you pay, the more they receive.

That is correct. However, you certainly can't assume that the seller is "real working class people." It could be someone who got the points for $1 in a distress sale and is now reselling. Or, a rich individual could have inherited the points and want them gone at any price. You can never assume the sellers situation.

The buyer should only pay what he believes the points are worth and no more. Perhaps the important point is that the buyer is more likely helping a seller get out of a bad situation of financial liability that may have been plaguing him (or her) for a long time. A seller staying up at night crying over 2024 MFs that they can't afford. Just another assumption. But, based on my time on TUG I would put my money on the later. The negotiation process should find the point at which the seller and buyer both feel happy.

Never pay retail. Negotiate a win-win.

 

[HuskerATL]

Did you say which property this is?

SeaWorld

 

[HuskerATL]

Thanks @HuskerATL I see you are very active in this community and really appreciate your insight!


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If you decide to do this, I would do it soon to make sure that you don't lose the 16k 2023 pts. You can pay to save them in your new HGV account, deposit in RCI, or convert for an immediate Hilton Hotel reservation at 1:13 (HGV pts/HH points). If you aren't a member yet, it takes HGV a bit to set up the account once the rest of the process is done. If they are using someone like LT Transfers, then you can pay them a little extra to expedite. You could offer to pay that. I think it is a $100 or so. For your awareness and if you look in the TUG MF sticky, the 2 bed 8,000 pt 2024 MF, is $1,386 so for 2 (16,000), it is $2,772. The MF/pt is 0.173. That would be way too high for me, since our last ones were 0.09..so, in essence, we will pay about half as much as you for the same point use. Just something to think about.

 

[GT75]

The MF/pt is 0.173. That would be way too high for me, since our last ones were 0.09..so, in essence, we will pay about half as much as you for the same point use. Just something to think about.

This is my opinion also. MFs will be forever until you unload this purchase.

 

[raddoc]

Hopefully you can see what I’m purchasing!


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Assuming that you're purchasing this through a third party (realtor / broker)? Looks like the seller is paying $800 in closing costs / resort transfer fees which means they're getting $1200 out of this - but that $1200 is before broker fees. Most brokers will have a minimum fee for low value deeds - for example one commonly used broker charges a $1000 fee for deeds less than $3000. Taking that into account, the seller is likely getting $200 or potentially losing money if they're paying a fee for both deeds. In that case, they're paying money for you to take it off of their hands.

Just something to think about as you consider whether or not it's a good deal and be aware that you might find yourself in the same situation as the seller down the road.

 

[drucifer]

...The negotiation process should find the point at which the seller and buyer both feel happy.

Never pay retail. Negotiate a win-win.

Sounds really positive.
In most deals I make, both parties are equally feeling like they got ripped off a little bit. Everyone is a little pissed.

 

[HuskerATL]

Sounds really positive.
In most deals I make, both parties are equally feeling like they got ripped off a little bit. Everyone is a little pissed.

I had an environmental planning professor in college who worked a lot with Jackson Hole. He said it is a constant fight between the residents, environmentalist, hunters, and recreational folks. He said that if everyone was upset then they were doing it correctly but if one party was happier than the others, then they needed to revisit the policies.

 

[HedonisticEpicurean]

I think the win-win philosophy comes from positive, ethical MBA professors afraid to admit that most transactions don't even come close to win-win. The person or entity with the most time, money and leverage usually comes out with the win. But, it is nice to strive for that result. I'm in the process of selling a small project here on Oahu this week and I already feel the beating. Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose. Sometimes you get rained out.

When it comes to selling a timeshare on the secondary market, if the seller originally purchased it from a developer, the desire to eliminate a burdensome obligation (the WIN) is outweighed by the significant financial hit (the LOSS) resulting from an impulsive purchase without thorough research.

I bet that few if any have purchased a timeshare from a developer and later sold it in the resale market without taking a big loss.

Druciffer, you are right. Everyone of us complains over something in a sale.

 

[Bob61]

MF’s are too high for me, even if it was free. On top of that, I think those MF’s are 2023 and the 2024 might be $2772, which is over $.17/point.

. MF's will always increase and I think if you have any idea of using this beyond 5 years, you are better off with a low MF deed.

In looking at all HGVC MFs they all seem to be at the .15-.18 cost per point, based on the number of annual points. What properties are you finding such a low MF? Is it also possible those properties are not collecting any $$$ for reserves? Thanks

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[HuskerATL]

In looking at all HGVC MFs they all seem to be at the .15-.18 cost per point, based on the number of annual points. What properties are you finding such a low MF? Is it also possible those properties are not collecting any $$$ for reserves? Thanks

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There are many lower. Craig, where we pay 0.09 but some are lower, our Blvd is 0.12 but many are lower in Vegas. They all collect reserves. This post shows others, Post in thread '2024 Hilton Grand Vacations Maintenance Fees' https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/2024-hilton-grand-vacations-maintenance-fees.356662/post-2975698

One caveat to this list is that some are expensive to buy, even on the resale market, so you need to look at total cost and the break even point.

 

[Wildest]

Really appreciate all the context here from everyone! Please keep it coming.

I’m not too worried about the MF knowing they go up. I know it’s a bit but we will get great use out of those points and stay in substantially nicer rooms than standard hotels.


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[raddoc]

In looking at all HGVC MFs they all seem to be at the .15-.18 cost per point, based on the number of annual points. What properties are you finding such a low MF? Is it also possible those properties are not collecting any $$$ for reserves? Thanks

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There are many desirable deeds that will get you a MF/point ratio of .10/point or less, the key is to purchase the right deed. Many locations will have same size rooms with different point levels as well as differences in seasons (silver/gold/platinum). As an example, a 1 bedroom at the Elara could have:

Gold Season 5440 points, 6400 points, 8000 points, 8800 points, 10,080 points
Platinum Season 7680 points, 8800 points, 11200 points, 12480 points, 14880 points

All of these will have the same annual MF but you can see that the MF/point ratio for a gold season 5440 point deed will be almost 3x the MF/point ratio for a platinum season 14880 point deed. The deeds with the best MF/point ratios aren't as easily found and are more expensive but in the long run I think they make the most sense. Of course, everyone has different priorities, needs and timelines so it's a personal decision.

The post @HuskerATL linked to is a great database for MF/point ratios. A sweet spot are the high point value platinum deeds at most of the Vegas resorts as well as scattered other locations with high point value deeds.

 

[dayooper]

In looking at all HGVC MFs they all seem to be at the .15-.18 cost per point, based on the number of annual points. What properties are you finding such a low MF? Is it also possible those properties are not collecting any $$$ for reserves? Thanks

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My average for my 2 deeds is right around $0.10 per point. I bought with intention on keeping my MF’s low and the ability to divest myself of the deeds quickly if I have to. I own 2 bedroom platinum deeds at The Flamingo and The Boulevard and they both are fairly desirable deeds that offer great value for the combined 22,400 points I get yearly.

There are different ways to purchase HGVC resale. I went with a higher upfront cost and a lower MF, but I plan on using them as long as I can so MF’s were important to me. Since I could afford the higher cost when I bought, it was the obvious choice for me.

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

In looking at all HGVC MFs they all seem to be at the .15-.18 cost per point, based on the number of annual points. What properties are you finding such a low MF? Is it also possible those properties are not collecting any $$$ for reserves? Thanks

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Here’s what I own (all are Platinum):

Every Year 1 BR Plus at Elara – 11,200 Points/Year

Every Other Year Kings Land 1 BR Premier – 20,160 Points/EOY

Every Other Year the District 1 BR- 11,520 Points/EOY

Every Other Year 1 BR Plus Valdoro (1 Fixed Ski Week/1 Floater Week) – 19,840 Points/EOY

That’s a total of 73,920 Points every two year cycle for me. The last two years that I have accurate MF’s for (2022 and 2023) were a total of $7434. That works out to just over $.10/point. The Elara (8.43 cents per point) and Kings Land (7.9 cents per point) Deeds are the lowest MF/point of the bunch, The other two offer me some use/fee advantages.

 

[Bob61]

My average for my 2 deeds is right around $0.10 per point. I bought with intention on keeping my MF’s low and the ability to divest myself of the deeds quickly if I have to. I own 2 bedroom platinum deeds at The Flamingo and The Boulevard and they both are fairly desirable deeds that offer great value for the combined 22,400 points I get yearly.

There are different ways to purchase HGVC resale. I went with a higher upfront cost and a lower MF, but I plan on using them as long as I can so MF’s were important to me. Since I could afford the higher cost when I bought, it was the obvious choice for me.

Ok, got it. You essentially prepaid a fixed amount for the points and don't factor that sunk cost as you value your points usage today. Conversely the OP pays nothing out of pocket today but a somewhat fixed point value going forward. It might be interesting to know how those average out over a 10 to 20 year period once you factor all the costs.

Something else to consider is loss on opportunity cost for the $$ you paid upfront. As an example, if you paid $10k upfront that could be invested today and get a safe return of 6%, so that's $600 additional you've "lost" and a hidden cost of your points.

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