Is this a good deal? 16,000 points at seaworld HGVC! I paid $2000. I can use these points anywhere I believe, correct? Need some honest answers! Thank

[HuskerATL]

we have 10 weeks at Craig Lodges....all at 0.09...

 

[Bob61]

Here’s what I own (all are Platinum):

Every Year 1 BR Plus at Elara – 11,200 Points/Year

Every Other Year Kings Land 1 BR Premier – 20,160 Points/EOY

Every Other Year the District 1 BR- 11,520 Points/EOY

Every Other Year 1 BR Plus Valdoro (1 Fixed Ski Week/1 Floater Week) – 19,840 Points/EOY

That’s a total of 73,920 Points every two year cycle for me. The last two years that I have accurate MF’s for (2022 and 2023) were a total of $7434. That works out to just over $.10/point. The Elara (8.43 cents per point) and Kings Land (7.9 cents per point) Deeds are the lowest MF/point of the bunch, The other two offer me some use/fee advantages.

Thanks. That's a good cost per point today, but For a complete look at cost, how much did you pay to acquire those deeds? Did you get these buying from developer or get a great deal on resale? Really fascinating to see how you've leveraged your points.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

 

[HuskerATL]

Ok, got it. You essentially prepaid a fixed amount for the points and ignore that sunk cost as you value your points usage today. Conversely the OP pays nothing out of pocket today but a somewhat fixed point value going forward. It might be interesting to know how those average out over a 10 to 20 year period once you factor all the costs.

Something else to consider is loss on opportunity cost for the $$ you paid upfront. As an example, if you paid $10k upfront that could be invested today and get a safe return of 6%, so that's $600 additional you've "lost" and a hidden cost of your points.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

or, you just get cheap and low MFs....with almost no closing fees.... The more that I look at the cost of US-based deeds and closing costs, the more I like the Craig Lodges....of course, there is the currency fluctuation but a 7680 pt deed that cost under $2k with $692 MFs is hard to beat.

 

[Bob61]

we have 10 weeks at Craig Lodges....all at 0.09...

That's a lot of vacation time, congrats. What did you pay upfront to acquire those weeks?

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

 

[Bob61]

or, you just get cheap and low MFs....with almost no closing fees.... The more that I look at the cost of US-based deeds and closing costs, the more I like the Craig Lodges....of course, there is the currency fluctuation but a 7680 pt deed that cost under $2k with $692 MFs is hard to beat.

Craig Lodges are something new to me. Thanks for sharing.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

Thanks. That's a good cost per point today, but For a complete look at cost, how much did you pay to acquire those deeds? Did you get these buying from developer or get a great deal on resale? Really fascinating to see how you've leveraged your points.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

Total Purchase Price for all four: $15,400 (low was the District at $1,901/high was Elara at $5250)

Total Closing Costs: $4242 (low was Valdoro at $884/high was District at $1333)

Hilton Activation fees: $4375.

So, all in I invested a total of $24,017. I feel that if I wanted to sell any of these today, I could at least recoup the original purchase price.

All four were bought through two different agents from late 2020 through the Fall of 2021, after doing a lot of searching on my own.

 

[GT75]

Ok, got it. You essentially prepaid a fixed amount for the points and ignore that sunk cost as you value your points usage today. Conversely the OP pays nothing out of pocket today but a somewhat fixed point value going forward. It might be interesting to know how those average out over a 10 to 20 year period once you factor all the costs.

It is really a matter of how long you expect to keep those deeds. That to me is what you should be looking at along with what it costs to initially buy them.

 

[GTLINZ]

If they were plat weeks you would get 40 percent more points for the same MF at the same property. That is why gold is not worth too much, and silver (or lower) is hard to give away.

For the same MF and plat units , the MF would come out to .173 / 1.4 or .1235 . The buy in would be larger, though.

 

[raddoc]

Ok, got it. You essentially prepaid a fixed amount for the points and don't factor that sunk cost as you value your points usage today. Conversely the OP pays nothing out of pocket today but a somewhat fixed point value going forward. It might be interesting to know how those average out over a 10 to 20 year period once you factor all the costs

This has been the source of much "spirited" debate in this forum...

 

[Bob61]

Total Purchase Price for all four: $15,400 (low was the District at $1,901/high was Elara at $5250)

Total Closing Costs: $4242 (low was Valdoro at $884/high was District at $1333)

Hilton Activation fees: $4375.

So, all in I invested a total of $24,017. I feel that if I wanted to sell any of these today, I could at least recoup the original purchase price.

All four were bought through two different agents from late 2020 through the Fall of 2021, after doing a lot of searching on my own.

Nice, the fixed costs then only add another couple cents per point. Based on timing, it looks like you capitalized on the pandemic fears and found some bargains. We may be heading another opportunity based on how the economy weathers its current storm outlook. Thanks for sharing your experience. Feel a bit guilty of highjacking the OPs thread, but thought it may also help to understand the cost of point comparison and help him assess if deal he made was good or not.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

 

[Bob61]

If they were plat weeks you would get 40 percent more points for the same MF at the same property. That is why gold is not worth too much, and silver (or lower) is hard to give away.

For the same MF and plat units , the MF would come out to .173 / 1.4 or .1235 . The buy in would be larger, though.

Isn't it also true that the likelihood of finding plat offered at the same price that OP paid for Gold is most unlikely? How much would OP have had to pay if those were Plat deeds? OP would have to factor in that cost.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

 

[Bob61]

It is really a matter of how long you expect to keep those deeds. That to me is what you should be looking at along with what it costs to initially buy them.

Who knows how long one would expect to keep. That's why I would look at the opportunity cost of any prepaid/sunk costs. That can be analyzed on a current year basis for comparison.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

 

[drucifer]

Who knows how long one would expect to keep. That's why I would look at the opportunity cost of any prepaid/sunk costs. That can be analyzed on a current year basis for comparison.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

I don't look at the TVM on the initial investment. Sure, $10k might yield $600 a year, but if you buy something with high MF/point ratio, those MFs will also likely escalate with inflation, making the high ratio deeds even worse over time nominally (or equally bad inflation-adjusted). Also, an excellent deed that costs real money (say $8k - $16k range) will be sellable when you are done with it. I'd rather lose $4k on a deed over a period of 10 years than have a free or $2k - $4k deed that I can't give away in 10 years and I'm stuck with. (i.e. Taking a $400/year financial hit is better than getting stuck when you are done with it.)

I don't think anyone goes into this with a time horizon of less than 10 years. It's really hard to make it pencil out in under 5 years. at 5 years, you might as well just rent VRBOs, AirBnBs or stay in hotels rather than get tied up in ownership.

my 0.02

 

[HuskerATL]

That's a lot of vacation time, congrats. What did you pay upfront to acquire those weeks?

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

Between 1,500 and 2,000 pounds each.

 

[HuskerATL]

Craig Lodges are something new to me. Thanks for sharing.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

Here is the current sales page. What I really like about them is the basically no closing cost, options for use, and option to trade in Interval International. I have not traded in II yet but it is nice to have the option to exchange there instead of HGV, if the need arises.

Craigendarroch lodges for sale - Craigendarroch Owners' Club

A second home at Craigendarroch Winter Offers From as little as £900* you can own a week in the heart of Royal Deeside. Spend time in your own lodge, surrounded by stunning woodland walks, glorious fresh air and use of the Country Club including swimming pools, restaurant and spa . . . what’s...

www.craigendarroch.com

 

[Bob61]

I don't look at the TVM on the initial investment. Sure, $10k might yield $600 a year, but if you buy something with high MF/point ratio, those MFs will also likely escalate with inflation, making the high ratio deeds even worse over time nominally (or equally bad inflation-adjusted). Also, an excellent deed that costs real money (say $8k - $16k range) will be sellable when you are done with it. I'd rather lose $4k on a deed over a period of 10 years than have a free or $2k - $4k deed that I can't give away in 10 years and I'm stuck with. (i.e. Taking a $400/year financial hit is better than getting stuck when you are done with it.)

I don't think anyone goes into this with a time horizon of less than 10 years. It's really hard to make it pencil out in under 5 years. at 5 years, you might as well just rent VRBOs, AirBnBs or stay in hotels rather than get tied up in ownership.

my 0.02

Agree with you, but it's like guessing which will be worth more in the future and does that cover the long term opportunity cost. We don't know if any of these properties will have a special assessment either, likely if older property and they didn't set reserves sufficiently. So much to consider.

But, I didn't want to get into a debate on what is best strategy for timeshares, but rather call out for OPs benefit that those with a low MF have other costs or had opportunities which are unlikely today that allowed them to have such low MF today.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

 

[HuskerATL]

But, I didn't want to get into a debate on what is best strategy for timeshares, but rather call out for OPs benefit that those with a low MF have other costs or had opportunities which are unlikely today that allowed them to have such low MF today.

They may or may not have other costs but bargains are still to be had. You just need to be patient and watch for them....and know where to watch plus what to watch for.

 

[GT75]

Who knows how long one would expect to keep.

IMO, then you are being very short-sighted because I think that you should figure something for the long-term MFs. But maybe that is just me.

 

[Bob61]

IMO, then you are being very short-sighted because I think that you should figure something for the long-term MFs. But maybe that is just me.

Of course, we could definitely dive deep into analyzing this topic, and perhaps it is somewhat shortsighted, but I was aiming for simplicity in our discussion about the relative value of the OP's deal in this thread.

Another aspect we'd also need to consider is the potential loss of value over time with most (if not all) timeshares, as they tend to decrease in market worth, and some may even become worthless. It's important to factor this into a 10 to 20-year analysis.

Additionally, predicting what maintenance fees (MF) will be in the future can be quite challenging. Is it safe to assume that a property with low MF today will maintain relatively low MF for the next 10 to 20 years? Looking at the rate increase for 2023, there are significant differences in the percentage of change, and these annual variances could transform a low MF today into a higher cost in the future, especially if a special assessment is imposed.

Perhaps someone has historical information that shows the ongoing relevance of low MF to future MF and if those remain relatively static over the 10 to 20 year period.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

 

[HuskerATL]

Of course, we could definitely dive deep into analyzing this topic, and perhaps it is somewhat shortsighted, but I was aiming for simplicity in our discussion about the relative value of the OP's deal in this thread.

Another aspect we'd also need to consider is the potential loss of value over time with most (if not all) timeshares, as they tend to decrease in market worth, and some may even become worthless. It's important to factor this into a 10 to 20-year analysis.

Additionally, predicting what maintenance fees (MF) will be in the future can be quite challenging. Is it safe to assume that a property with low MF today will maintain relatively low MF for the next 10 to 20 years? Looking at the rate increase for 2023, there are significant differences in the percentage of change, and these annual variances could transform a low MF today into a higher cost in the future, especially if a special assessment is imposed.

Perhaps someone has historical information that shows the ongoing relevance of low MF to future MF and if those remain relatively static over the 10 to 20 year period.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

You mean like this? https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/2024-hilton-grand-vacations-maintenance-fees.356662/post-2984184

 

[Bob61]

They may or may not have other costs but bargains are still to be had. You just need to be patient and watch for them....and know where to watch plus what to watch for.

I agree, but to OPs question, relative to today's market and what's available, how does the deal he got measure up?

To me and I'm far from being knowledgeable as many here, but the relative MF seems reasonable especially with no large out of pocket costs. OP is getting 2 years of points upfront, helping to offset his closing costs. The 10-11 cents per point some have picked up along the way is most likely not going to be found today, and I applaud those who took advantage of such an opportunity.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I would not buy this deal. Exit will be tough. If MF is .17 now, that could be .22 in a few years. Remember the numerator increases every year but the denominator (points) remains fixed.

Florida has new Reserve regulations from the beach condo collapse and insurance hikes from hurricanes which stress MF costs.

Pony up and buy a safe deed that will have an exit in the future. Otherwise you will be paying a broker or discounter $1500 or paying $2000 in closing fees (or both) plus current year MF to give away points in order to sell. (Just like the seller of this "deal"). Plus headache, worry that you are burdening your heirs who cannot exit easily.

Double the all-in entry price ($2k purch +$2000 HGVC fees + 1 year MF to consider exit. In other words that $2k deal will cost you $9k+ for entry and exit Plus .10 per point more. Easily costing you $10k+ plus for fewer points than an efficient deed.

Otherwise, buy an 11,200 or better plat Blvd, Paradise, Flamingo or Elara. Or Craig lodges. You can DIY your sale because there is demand and save $1500 in broker fees. And exit without worry.

You get what you pay for.

 

[Bob61]

You mean like this? https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/2024-hilton-grand-vacations-maintenance-fees.356662/post-2984184
View attachment 83425

Something like that but a table with many timeshare properties so you could compare properties over a time period to see how much "x" went up vs "y". Just need properties going down the page and the MF total by year across the page. Given that you can slice and dice for analysis.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

 

[HuskerATL]

I agree, but to OPs question, relative to today's market and what's available, how does the deal he got measure up?

To me and I'm far from being knowledgeable as many here, but the relative MF seems reasonable especially with no large out of pocket costs. OP is getting 2 years of points upfront, helping to offset his closing costs. The 10-11 cents per point some have picked up along the way is most likely not going to be found today, and I applaud those who took advantage of such an opportunity.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

Sub 0.10 are available right now with a range of purchase prices. The free 16k is a nice but the long term MFs will be painful.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

It also depends where you want to use your points. Some locations such as ski, summer Honolulu, whale season and summer Maui, NYC and Hilton Head require you to own for peak season and event weeks. Those deeds cost more.