Is it just me or do you notice some Tuggers getting more cranky?

[pjrose]

PJ - Users can click the red triangle in any post to report a "problem" - as soon as the do, every Mod/Admin gets an email. That allows us to catch things very quickly.

Although some people abuse . . .

Yes, and as you know I do click it occasionally. I thought Brian (above) meant you caught a lot before the rest of us, but I guess it's whoever is quicker on the draw - er button...

And I hope I don't abuse it. I've generally added "???" when I'm not sure if it's a problem.

 

[geoand]

PJ - Users can click the red triangle in any post to report a "problem" - as soon as the do, every Mod/Admin gets an email. That allows us to catch things very quickly.

Although some people abuse the green triangle and simply report things they don't agree with, or violations of the posting rules that aren't violations. If I had $1 for every time someone reported someone else for having "my website" in their signature line, I could retire!

This is a purely anonymous post. I notified Denise that there was a violation on a thread and it turns out that I notified the mods that Denise had violated. Again, this is a purely anonymous post.

 

[pjrose]

This is a purely anonymous post. I notified Denise that there was a violation on a thread and it turns out that I notified the mods that Denise had violated. Again, this is a purely anonymous post.

I don't understand....are you saying that the clicker of the red triangle remains anonymous?

 

[geoand]

I don't understand....are you saying that the clicker of the red triangle remains anonymous?

No. The poster you quoted obviously was posting anonymously and fessed up to doing something that he or she did not intend to do. To make it clearer, I have no idea who you quoted.

 

[Beefnot]

No. The poster you quoted obviously was posting anonymously and fessed up to doing something that he or she did not intend to do. To make it clearer, I have no idea who you quoted.

Ohhh. I get it now. Took me a minute. Funny.

 

[pjrose]

No. The poster you quoted obviously was posting anonymously and fessed up to doing something that he or she did not intend to do. To make it clearer, I have no idea who you quoted.

But I quoted you.....didn't I?

Ohhh. I get it now. Took me a minute. Funny.

I don't get it.

 

[Beefnot]

I certainly understand your frustration. And if someone calls them out on those posts (even if done nicely), they usually get trounced upon.

IMO, some opinions outside of the mainstream are not very well received here. Take, for example, these two "mainstream" ideas:

• Always buy resale
• PCCs never provide a valid service to their customers

If anyone challenges those statements, they are beaten down by the masses and often their intelligence or maturity is called into question. It is rare that someone posts something to the tune of "I understand your opinion, but I disagree with you". I just chalk that up to the anonymity the internet affords a poster -- in person, I'm sure the conversation would be much more pleasant and respectful.

However, compared to the majority of other forums I have participated in, the people here are much more respectful.

Cheers! Kurt

Agree with your second bullet, but as for the first, it is a mathematical certainty that purchasing from the developer is financially suboptimal to buying resale. 100% of the time, without fail. I am all for shouting down a person who tries to financially justify mathematical impossibility (either because they actually believe their flawed math, or because they want to stubbornly rationalize a bad purchase). Now if one is advocating a developer purchase for a reason other than financial, well folks can disagree on the importance of financial considerations vs. other factors.

 

[Talent312]

But I quoted you.....didn't I?

Well, we don't exactly know who is posting as "geoand."
It could be Barbara Bush, or the poster's evil twin?

But I doubt it's anonymous to the wizards of TUG, who know who we are.

 

[pedro47]

I've always been impressed with the helpfulness and cordiality of Tuggers. But I am a bit appalled lately at the lack of decorum on Tug. I've been around here for a few years and there are some who have always been cranky or even spiteful, but lately there are more than the usual posts that are down-right mean. I wish it would stop. Remember what your mother said, if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.

Maybe it's winter, the economy, an election year, lack of sleep, lack of sex, etc.

Leaving now before someone throws something at me!

I also enjoyed this web site for the knowledge and information I have rec'd. You left me out, maybe it's old age. (smile) Please, I am leaving now and please do not throw anything at an old man.

 

[Rob&Carol Q]

Cranky? Of course...it's February. Haven't seen the sun since some time last week and we are expecting 2 inches tonight.

Still haven't figured out why we just don't leave this place...then I remember...stupid mortgage...Oh, and a beautiful Granddaughter.

Everything will get better in March, especially once we start seeing preseason baseball stories.

 

[tombo]

Yeh.

You've heard it over & over.

I've heard it over & over.

But it's all fresh & new to the newbies clicking in for the 1st time, & those are the ones who really need to hear it.

Otherwise, without exposure to The Wisdom Of TUG, they're apt to go out & lay out big bux for some full-freight timeshare & throw money down a rathole via PCC hornswoggles & up-front fee bamboozles, & I don't know what-all.

In short, much of The Wisdom Of TUG bears repeating.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

I agree with Alan. Most topics have been covered before. If there was no repetition of opinions and views there would be few posts on TUG. Where to stay in New Orleans, which resort in Orlando is best, is Marriott worth it, is DVC worth it, should you buy in Orlando, Should you buy in Vegas, Branson, etc, etc, etc have all been covered hundreds of times. If a new person asks on of those questions and no one responds we are not being helpful and TUG becomes only valuable to long time members.

When someone says buy retail in a post, that developer XYZ was great, that ROFR keeps prices high, that RCI and/or II were terrible companies, etc, etc, etc if people do not post opposing opinions because it has been covered before then newbies would just assume that the statement is valid with no counter points being presented to let them decide after hearing both sides. For example RCI is not perfect, but it works well for many of us. If we never again posted that we have had good success with our exchange company(s) then everyone logging on to TUG would assume they are worthless because the posts say they are with no one rebutting the assertation. If no one posted that they had bad success with RCI and they prefer the smaller independent exchange companies because that has been covered before then many newbies would never know there are other options. It is old hat to many of us, but a lot of posters have never heard any of it before. And the great thing about TUG is that in some of the repetitive threads I actually find out about something I have never heard of before. If the thread was closed, deleted, or ignored by TUGGERS I would have missed a lot of information through the years even though the majority of the thread is the same old stuff.

Civility needs to be used (and I have been made mad enough more than a few times where I was not as nice as I should be), but to stop posting about topics that have been covered would almost end the posts on TUG. JMHO

 

[ace2000]

I agree with Alan. Most topics have been covered before. If there was no repetition of opinions and views there would be few posts on TUG. If someone said buy retail in a post, that developer XYZ was great, that ROFR keeps prices high, that RCI and/or II were terrible companies, etc, etc, etc and people did not post opposing opinions because it has been covered before then newbies would just assume that the statement is valid with no counter points being presented to let them decide after hearing both sides. For example RCI is not perfect, but it works well for many of us. If we never again posted that we have had good success with our exchange company(s) then everyone logging on to TUG would assume they are worthless because the posts say they are with no one rebutting the assertation. Civility needs to be used (and I have been made mad enough more than a few times where I was not as nice as I should be), but to stop posting about topics that have been covered would almost end the posts on TUG. JMHO

Yep, well said. And nobody complains about the repetition if it goes along with their beliefs. You only see them complain about repetition on the opposing viewpoints.

 

[Beefnot]

But I quoted you.....didn't I?



I don't get it.

Geoand was being funny by fessing up that s/he was guilty of what DeniseM was referring to. The anonymous thing is whatmade it pretty funny. Of course s/he knew it was not really anonymous. I dont know how to explain other than that. Ok, now youve just made it unfunny. Thanks a lot.

 

[AwayWeGo]

I Resemble That Remark.

Civility needs to be used (and I have been made mad enough more than a few times where I was not as nice as I should be), but to stop posting about topics that have been covered would almost end the posts on TUG.

You are correct, sir.

Not only that, fresh challenges to long-held views present opportunities to reconsider & refine the underlying ideas, to the (potential) benefit of all concerned.

Also, not all the ideas offered over & over have to be stated exactly the same way every time. Repetition with variation (a principle of musical composition, BTW) helps get ideas across in fresh ways that might not have bridged the communication gap the 1st or 2nd or 3rd time round.

Next to every TUG-BBS entry is a little space showing how many entries have been sent in by the person who contributed that entry. What's not shown is how many entries people typed up & got all ready to send in, but then canceled & deleted upon further reflection before reaching the point of no return.

As time goes on, I become more willing to stifle myself & suffer the discomfort of an unexpressed thought, & by now that unshown number of entries not sent has got have reached triple digits. (Sometimes I get semi-wistful over not being able to take credit for all the times I canceled misbegotten stuff that I did not send in.)

Even so, there are times when I have been rebuked -- a few times by regular TUG-BBS participants & once or twice by the Grand Pro (or surrogates). I have tried to take those rebukes to heart by mending my ways.

My selfish purpose here on TUG-BBS is to have fun -- learn some stuff, share some stuff, crack jokes, enjoy the give & take & the back & forth, to be maybe a little provocative now & then, but never to cause intentional irritation or peeve anybody on purpose just for the sake of causing trouble.

However that may be, nobody's perfect.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Elan]

The other thing is that if the repetitive content were removed, there wouldn't be that much to talk about. I've noticed that a large percentage of the hardcore timeshare enthusiasts here are so because they are into rentals. Nothing wrong with that, but in terms of just buying and using, the landscape just doesn't change often enough to warrant lots of discussion (I can only read someone whining about their TPU allocation dropping so many times ).

 

[Passepartout]

(I can only read someone whining about their TPU allocation dropping so many times ).

Exactly why I spend (waste?) most of my TUG time in the lounge. The scenery and subjects change from time to time. And I'm not smart or interesting enough for Facebook.

Jim

 

[AwayWeGo]

Nobody's Perfect.

I'm not smart or interesting enough for Facebook.

Same goes for plenty of people who are on FaceBook.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[PigsDad]

Agree with your second bullet, but as for the first, it is a mathematical certainty that purchasing from the developer is financially suboptimal to buying resale. 100% of the time, without fail. I am all for shouting down a person who tries to financially justify mathematical impossibility (either because they actually believe their flawed math, or because they want to stubbornly rationalize a bad purchase).

Thank you for making my point so nicely for me.

Now if one is advocating a developer purchase for a reason other than financial, well folks can disagree on the importance of financial considerations vs. other factors.

So by your own admission, buying resale is not "100% of the time, without fail" the best choice for an individual. That was my point. But there are those on this board who will argue until they are blue in the face if anyone dares challenge the mantra of "always buy resale". They simply cannot see it from the other persons point of view.

Kurt

 

[dmharris]

Civility needs to be used (and I have been made mad enough more than a few times where I was not as nice as I should be), but to stop posting about topics that have been covered would almost end the posts on TUG. JMHO

This is refreshing. I really appreciate the introspection shown on this thread (especially since I started it). To see some people acknowledge that they're human (we all get angry sometimes) I think is helpful. I especially appreciate understanding the rationale for anger. It's interesting about repetitive posts and arguing about timeshares. I also see hostilities in the lounge.

In thinking this through, it seems some people get so fixated on their opinion and have no cognitive recognition or empathy for any other opinion that they have to spew words of anger across the screen. Maybe we all need to occasionally take a breath and be more tolerant that our opinions aren't the only opinions.

Maybe age does bring wisdom.

Is it time for a group hug??

 

[Elan]

Exactly why I spend (waste?) most of my TUG time in the lounge. The scenery and subjects change from time to time. And I'm not smart or interesting enough for Facebook.

Jim

Me too. I'm tempted to buy a Marriott. Not because I want or need another timeshare, but because then I could venture into the Marriott Forum and argue with everyone else.

 

[ace2000]

Me too. I'm tempted to buy a Marriott. Not because I want or need another timeshare, but because then I could venture into the Marriott Forum and argue with everyone else.

Wow, great idea. I see some on ebay dirt cheap right now!

Wait a minute... do Mariott timeshares have maint fees?

 

[Timeshare Von]

>>>I am all for shouting down a person . . . <<<

Well that is just plain rude and offensive and not in the spirit of being "friendly" here on TUG.

I consider myself pretty smart and you wanna know what? The MATH does work when you are presented the numbers and assumptions that the TS sales people use. Many of us (probably a majority) have bought at least one TS direct from a developer at retail price. My first one was a RTU in 1981.

Today looking back, folks (myself included) can say that was silly . . . "own it" for 20 years and have nothing to show for it afterwards. But you know what? I can make the math work after the fact too, proving that my purchase price PLUS MF and the 3 year assessment they got out of the original owners was a fair value for what I got and how I used it. It may not have been a GREAT value, but the value was more than I had financially invested (paid into) it.

What you seem to have forgotten however, is that resale is an even better value. Doesn't mean the first method of ownership (buying from the developer) has NO value . . . it's just not as good as a resale purchase.

If people want to defend retail purchasing until they're blue in the face, that is their right. I don't believe, however, that you have a right to shout them down for it.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Hope Springs Eternal.

Maybe age does bring wisdom.

I keep waiting for that.

No sign of it so far.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Twinkstarr]

Me too. I'm tempted to buy a Marriott. Not because I want or need another timeshare, but because then I could venture into the Marriott Forum and argue with everyone else.

:hysterical:

 

[dmharris]

>>>I am all for shouting down a person . . . <<<

Well that is just plain rude and offensive and not in the spirit of being "friendly" here on TUG.

I consider myself pretty smart and you wanna know what? The MATH does work when you are presented the numbers and assumptions that the TS sales people use. Many of us (probably a majority) have bought at least one TS direct from a developer at retail price. My first one was a RTU in 1981.

Today looking back, folks (myself included) can say that was silly . . . "own it" for 20 years and have nothing to show for it afterwards. But you know what? I can make the math work after the fact too, proving that my purchase price PLUS MF and the 3 year assessment they got out of the original owners was a fair value for what I got and how I used it. It may not have been a GREAT value, but the value was more than I had financially invested (paid into) it.

What you seem to have forgotten however, is that resale is an even better value. Doesn't mean the first method of ownership (buying from the developer) has NO value . . . it's just not as good as a resale purchase.

If people want to defend retail purchasing until they're blue in the face, that is their right. I don't believe, however, that you have a right to shout them down for it.

Okay folks, please listen up (or would that be look carefully at your screen). This is a thread not to show us how to be cranky (sorry Von) but to discuss why and if people seem more cranky. Let's move the timeshare topic to another thread because it is obviously inflammatory and that is not the purpose of this thread. Thank you for all your insightful posts.