Interesting Exchange Data from Advisor

[EKniager]

Just got off the phone with my Marriott advisor. He was helping us get on a waitlist for a couple days in Myrtle Beach in November. I used the opportunity to pick his brain regarding exchange and points. Here are a few things others might know but I found interesting:

+ For the most part they are trying to consider points as points. He said only in really high demand situations does the legacy versus trust thing come into play. I asked about different inventory buckets and if trading weeks were different and he said, "not really," and that they are trying to keep it all as one inventory.

+Deposit-first equals request-first. He said there is a myth that one is better than the other and that he has heard some sales reps give that advice but it is false.

+ WRT exchange-- 30% done instantaneously over the phone or online, 50% completed in 6-8 months via request, and 20% in last 60 days (which is the only time, he says they look at the week/season you are trading because it is done manually). He says the TDI is basically marketing and that of course they prefer people to trade high value weeks into them but that the system does not take it into consideration. He claims it only impacts 2% of that last 20% of exchanges. That is because...

+ There are three variables in II's system. (I'm assuming he meant automated. He said the last 60 days were done manually.) They are LOCATION (not season), TIME of DEPOSIT, and TIME OF REQUEST.

This was very interesting to me. I always reserve a high TDI week assuming it helps us trade. Well, and because it rents for a higher amount. He says it will only impact exchanges on rare occasions and the way to go is to buy an inexpensive property to trade. Hmmmm...

 

[rsackett]

...He says the TDI is basically marketing and that of course they prefer people to trade high value weeks into them but that the system does not take it into consideration. He claims it only impacts 2% of that last 20% of exchanges. That is because...

+ There are three variables in II's system. (I'm assuming he meant automated. He said the last 60 days were done manually.) They are LOCATION (not season), TIME of DEPOSIT, and TIME OF REQUEST.

This was very interesting to me. I always reserve a high TDI week assuming it helps us trade. Well, and because it rents for a higher amount. He says it will only impact exchanges on rare occasions and the way to go is to buy an inexpensive property to trade. Hmmmm...

If what he says is true than a Silver week will have almost the same trading power as a Platinum week. I do not think this is true.

Also I have requested a difficult trade at the same time with both my Plat Manor Club (Williamsburg, July 4th) week and my Plat Harbour Point (Hilton Head, week 32) week. The Manor Club matched first at about a year out. If what the rep said was the whole story I would have thought that the Harbour Point would have gotten the match because Hilton Head is a higher demand location than Williamsburg.

Ray

 

[EKniager]

If what he says is true than a Silver week will have almost the same trading power as a Platinum week. I do not think this is true.

Also I have requested a difficult trade at the same time with both my Plat Manor Club (Williamsburg, July 4th) week and my Plat Harbour Point (Hilton Head, week 32) week. The Manor Club matched first at about a year out. If what the rep said was the whole story I would have thought that the Harbour Point would have gotten the match because Hilton Head is a higher demand location than Williamsburg.

Ray

Hilton Head might have greater demand but Harbour Point/Sunset Pointe are likely the lowest demand resorts in that group.

Location = Resort

 

[rsackett]

That makes sense. When I read Location I thought of city, not the resort itself.

Do you think he was saying that a Silver trades almost as well as a Platinum at the same resort?

Ray

 

[Saintsfanfl]

That makes sense. When I read Location I thought of city, not the resort itself.

Do you think he was saying that a Silver trades almost as well as a Platinum at the same resort?

Ray

"almost as well"? According to the data in the OP the season is ignored and is not a factor. If this were true a mud season trades the same as a new years ski week. Winter on HHI trades the same as same as July 4 week. Highly unlikely is puttin it mildly.

 

[EKniager]

I'm a pretty good judge of people and this advisor seemed sharp to me. I went thru this logic with him more than once to be sure to get it right. He said the ONLY time they see the season or week reserved is when they manually look at (in that final 60 days). And he repeated that only occurs on 2% of the last 60 day exchanges which he said were only 20% of trades. He said there are a lot of misconceptions and that II intentionally leads you to believe season matters more because they would like better weeks to make available. He said with certainty that the "system" only looked at three variables and that season wasn't one of them. We already knew the view doesn't matter.

Personally, I have always felt the exchange system was intentionally cloaked in mystery. II has no reason to let us see behind the curtain. Think about it, maintenance fees don't change with the season.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I'm a pretty good judge of people and this advisor seemed sharp to me. I went thru this logic with him more than once to be sure to get it right. He said the ONLY time they see the season or week reserved is when they manually look at (in that final 60 days). And he repeated that only occurs on 2% of the last 60 day exchanges which he said were only 20% of trades. He said there are a lot of misconceptions and that II intentionally leads you to believe season matters more because they would like better weeks to make available. He said with certainty that the "system" only looked at three variables and that season wasn't one of them. We already knew the view doesn't matter.

Personally, I have always felt the exchange system was intentionally cloaked in mystery. II has no reason to let us see behind the curtain. Think about it, maintenance fees don't change with the season.

At Ocean Pointe the fees do change with the season. Platinum season pays a higher maintenance fee than Silver although it is a less proportion than the demand difference. What you were told is definitely possible and maybe the reason why people always find "great trades". It is just almost everyone on here seems to advise buying platinum because it "trades much better than silver" and that is what I based my "highly unlikely" statement on. You would think this many Tuggers would have figured out by now that the Season means nothing. I bought silver anyway because it is what I can afford and May and the fall is generally the same weather at Ocean Pointe and we are driving distance. I hope what you are saying is true because I was hoping to trade my studios for other locations.

 

[Janette]

When making points reservations on line you are given a choice of which points you want to use. I had several choices of the number of legacy or trust points that I wanted to use.

 

[tjkahn]

Dumb question - WRT exchange stands for what?

 

[puckmanfl]

good afternoon!!!!

Missing one crucial variable....SIZE

I have posted numerous times on my famous experiment...

Wanted a ski week at Mountainside!!!
Gave II a range from early Feb. to MidMarch...
Deposited my 3 bedroom week 13 GV and my 2 bedroom winter Kolina week
Deposited both on same day...
Was confirmed in 2 weeks...
The 3 bedroom GV got the exchange...
Bigger is Better!!!
This was pre DC 2006!!!!

 

[DanR]

At Ocean Pointe the fees do change with the season. Platinum season pays a higher maintenance fee than Silver although it is a less proportion than the demand difference. What you were told is definitely possible and maybe the reason why people always find "great trades". It is just almost everyone on here seems to advise buying platinum because it "trades much better than silver" and that is what I based my "highly unlikely" statement on. You would think this many Tuggers would have figured out by now that the Season means nothing. I bought silver anyway because it is what I can afford and May and the fall is generally the same weather at Ocean Pointe and we are driving distance. I hope what you are saying is true because I was hoping to trade my studios for other locations.

I believe that the difference in MFs has to do with property taxes paid to the town.
The actual mantenance fee without taxes should be the same.

 

[SueDonJ]

At Ocean Pointe the fees do change with the season. Platinum season pays a higher maintenance fee than Silver although it is a less proportion than the demand difference. What you were told is definitely possible and maybe the reason why people always find "great trades". It is just almost everyone on here seems to advise buying platinum because it "trades much better than silver" and that is what I based my "highly unlikely" statement on. You would think this many Tuggers would have figured out by now that the Season means nothing. I bought silver anyway because it is what I can afford and May and the fall is generally the same weather at Ocean Pointe and we are driving distance. I hope what you are saying is true because I was hoping to trade my studios for other locations.

I believe that the difference in MFs has to do with property taxes paid to the town.
The actual mantenance fee without taxes should be the same.

At the majority of Marriott resorts the fees do not change with the season. Like DanR says - where they do, such as the California and Florida resorts, the entire difference is due to real estate taxes and not the Operating and Reserve fees. At the Florida resorts the Real Estate Taxes are differentiated by season and unit size, and are included in the MF's billed by the resort. Each same-interval/season owner at a single resort is charged the same Real Estate Tax amount. At the California resorts the Operating and Reserve Fees are billed by the resorts while the Real Estate Taxes are billed by the state, and each owner can be charged a different Real Estate Tax because it's based on both the purchase price and date.

As far as season not being a factor in II exchange value, it may be true that their system doesn't recognize Marriott's "Plat/Gold/Red/White/Whatever" valuations. But II's TDI valuations are extremely important to the exchange value, and at most resorts/locations the higher TDI's correlate to the Weeks which fall in the seasons that Marriott designated as higher value in their system. So it stands to reason, 99% of the time seasonal differential matters a great deal in II's exchange system even if II doesn't recognize Marriott's seasonal categories.

(tj, WRT means "with respect to.")

 

[klpca]

+ There are three variables in II's system. (I'm assuming he meant automated. He said the last 60 days were done manually.) They are LOCATION (not season), TIME of DEPOSIT, and TIME OF REQUEST.

This was very interesting to me. I always reserve a high TDI week assuming it helps us trade. Well, and because it rents for a higher amount. He says it will only impact exchanges on rare occasions and the way to go is to buy an inexpensive property to trade. Hmmmm...

I had an advisor tell me almost the same thing right after I first bought my DSVII week. The previous owner had reserved a mid-Oct week for me and I assumed that it wouldn't trade well. He specifically said that the trading difference between the mid Oct week and Thanksgiving week was so minimal - if any - that it wouldn't make any difference. This year I booked Thanksgiving to use, but so far I haven't noticed any significant increase in the quality of units available when I do dummy bookings. It seems to see just about what it saw last year with the Oct week.

 

[tjkahn]

(tj, WRT means "with respect to.")

Thanks! As a relative newbie to TUG, sometimes I have a hard time keeping up with all the acronyms . Here's another one...DH = Dear Husband?

 

[EKniager]

But II's TDI valuations are extremely important to the exchange value, and at most resorts/locations the higher TDI's correlate to the Weeks which fall in the seasons that Marriott designated as higher value in their system. So it stands to reason, 99% of the time seasonal differential matters a great deal in II's exchange system even if II doesn't recognize Marriott's seasonal categories.

He specifically alluded to TDI as a marketing tool for II to get folks to deposit high demand weeks. I'm going to get his verbatim words wrong but essentially he said it was misleading. Sure it shows when demand for areas are high. He was firm that it did not represent the value of the deposit. For example, the HHI resorts do not have the same demand yet the TDI is shown as the same for all of them.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

As far as season not being a factor in II exchange value, it may be true that their system doesn't recognize Marriott's "Plat/Gold/Red/White/Whatever" valuations. But II's TDI valuations are extremely important to the exchange value, and at most resorts/locations the higher TDI's correlate to the Weeks which fall in the seasons that Marriott designated as higher value in their system. So it stands to reason, 99% of the time seasonal differential matters a great deal in II's exchange system even if II doesn't recognize Marriott's seasonal categories.."

But according to the OP "There are three variables in II's system...They are LOCATION (not season), TIME of DEPOSIT, and TIME OF REQUEST". This contradicts your statement "the higher TDI's correlate to the Weeks which fall in the seasons...". Accordingly to the OP your statement is a misconception. Which is true? I have no idea.

 

[EKniager]

good afternoon!!!!

Missing one crucial variable....SIZE

I have posted numerous times on my famous experiment...

Wanted a ski week at Mountainside!!!
Gave II a range from early Feb. to MidMarch...
Deposited my 3 bedroom week 13 GV and my 2 bedroom winter Kolina week
Deposited both on same day...
Was confirmed in 2 weeks...
The 3 bedroom GV got the exchange...
Bigger is Better!!!
This was pre DC 2006!!!!

I think you are correct. I'll need to circle back to my dude to confirm but I assumed that was under the LOCATION variable, e.g. 2-bedroom Surf Club. The season and view invisible.

 

[EKniager]

Does anyone have a written document from II showing how their formula works? Why not? Why don't they commit to us how they calculate the value of our deposits?

 

[Saintsfanfl]

For example, the HHI resorts do not have the same demand yet the TDI is shown as the same for all of them.

All the HHI resorts have the same trade value and therefore trade the same?

 

[SueDonJ]

I had an advisor tell me almost the same thing right after I first bought my DSVII week. The previous owner had reserved a mid-Oct week for me and I assumed that it wouldn't trade well. He specifically said that the trading difference between the mid Oct week and Thanksgiving week was so minimal - if any - that it wouldn't make any difference. This year I booked Thanksgiving to use, but so far I haven't noticed any significant increase in the quality of units available when I do dummy bookings. It seems to see just about what it saw last year with the Oct week.

Makes sense because the difference in TDI's for mid-October (wks 41-43) and Thanksgiving (wk 46) at DSVII is minimal - 105 v. 125. All of those are White weeks in the DSVII calendar. Now if you owned a Red DSVII week and deposited a February or March week, that 150 TDI would have the highest exchange value in II, certainly higher than your White week. This is a good example of II not recognizing the name Marriott gives to your week's season, but instead their own TDI value and how it correlates to Marriott's seasons in most cases.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Does anyone have a written document from II showing how their formula works? Why not? Why don't they commit to us how they calculate the value of our deposits?

I think you are probably on to something. Don't they make the same exchange fee no matter what is being exchanged? Why would they care who trades up or down if they make the same fee? They should only care about how fast they can generate exchanges.

 

[EKniager]

All the HHI resorts have the same trade value and therefore trade the same?

Demand is one thing. Trade value (or the value of the deposit) is another. 2-br Grand Ocean ("location" variable) most certainly trades better than 2-br Harbour Point. Look at points - 4,500 versus 1,225 in mid-summer.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Makes sense because the difference in TDI's for mid-October (wks 41-43) and Thanksgiving (wk 46) at DSVII is minimal - 105 v. 125. All of those are White weeks in the DSVII calendar. Now if you owned a Red DSVII week and deposited a February or March week, that 150 TDI would have the highest exchange value in II, certainly higher than your White week. This is a good example of II not recognizing the name Marriott gives to your week's season, but instead their own TDI value and how it correlates to Marriott's seasons in most cases.

How can we be sure TDI is used to assign a "value" to a deposit?

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Demand is one thing. Trade value (or the value of the deposit) is another. 2-br Grand Ocean ("location" variable) most certainly trades better than 2-br Harbour Point. Look at points - 4,500 versus 1,225 in mid-summer.

Ok I thought you were saying the demand is different but "the TDI is all the same". I was equating "TDI" with trade value. You are saying the various resorts are different locations and therefore are different trade values.

 

[slum808]

I think you are probably on to something. Don't they make the same exchange fee no matter what is being exchanged? Why would they care who trades up or down if they make the same fee? They should only care about how fast they can generate exchanges.

This is why they will never release the formula. They want you to believe that you need to deposit the best possible week to get what you want. If we were able to dissect the formula, we'd know how to get what we want with the cheapest week we could find. Then who's going to want to trade into that junk week we just deposited.