LannyPC, good point. Yes actually last night after actually joining TUG, (to show support as appreciation for the help I found!) I was looking at renting. That will definitely be a good option for us and likely do some try before we buy at least.
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kshell18
TUG Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2017
- Messages
- 47
- Reaction score
- 11
I just wanted to share that this site also saved my family from a costly mistake. We went to a Wyndham presentation and purchased 84K points. Something about it just did not sit right with me so I started doing research and stumbled across this site. We mailed our rescind letter a week after the presentation and I just confirmed that the down payment was refunded. Now, I am looking into the resale market to see if TS ownership is right for our family. Thank you so much for all of the information provided! You really saved us!
kshell18
TUG Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2017
- Messages
- 47
- Reaction score
- 11
Thank you! I began doing research the night after we purchased and I saw many negative reviews. I actually texted our saleswoman and asked her why she thought there were so many negative reviews out there and she bombarded me with messages about how some people are so negative and that everything (including Disney) receives some negative reviews and that I shouldn't let other people's negativity prevent me from investing in a vacation lifestyle for my family. I very politely informed her that I meant no offense and that I was just curious but her response was a MAJOR red flag to me. She continued to send me many messages throughout the rest of that week, which got a little annoying. Now I realize that she was doing that to try and keep me convinced until the rescind period expired, but I didn't know that at the time. After I set up our online account, I saw how little 84K could actually get us. I dug in deeper, found TUG, spoke to my husband (who informed me of the 10 day rescission window, which I was unaware of), and rescinded. I really am interested in investing in yearly vacations for my family, as I did not do much travelling growing up and would like to give my sons that opportunity. However, it seems to make much more sense to do so through the resale market. Again, I cannot thank you guys enough for saving me from this costly mistake!
Bpaul89
newbie
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2017
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 2
- Resorts Owned
- Seascape Destin Florida
We just our purchased a whyndam points in Destin Florida for $20,000. We bought the whole spiel about how in the long run it saves you money if you vacation more than 3 weeks a year. We currently spend around $4000 to do a 7 night cruise in a grand suite with balcony, plus smaller 3-7 day trips here and there so figured we spend around $6000 a year in trips. We thought we could do these bonus weeks for only $299 a week any time anywhere, and do cruises with our points, turns out after reading everything after signing the dotted line, that you have to put points into the RCI, he made it sound like we didn't have to use our points at all, that these were extras because we bought in, anyways then I looked up the cruises and you can only book an interior stateroom or a window stateroom which normally are only $299-599 a person and you don't even get the option of a suite with balcony, also the points required are 300k plus per person, which figured up if you did the %
$10/1k points would be almost $3000 per person to upgrade, so we pay already $4000 for two adults one child all inclusive with unlimited drinks and internet in a grand suite with balcony. So after reading that I went to Google for more info and stumbled on this site and we will be rescinding before we leave Florida. We bought it Saturday August 26th and will be sending rescinding letter Monday August 28th before we leave Florida. I really thought we would get a free cruise for our 176000 points. That is the way the salesperson made it seem. And that we could stay anywhere at any of these places and only pay 299 if we didn't want to use points or whatever.
$10/1k points would be almost $3000 per person to upgrade, so we pay already $4000 for two adults one child all inclusive with unlimited drinks and internet in a grand suite with balcony. So after reading that I went to Google for more info and stumbled on this site and we will be rescinding before we leave Florida. We bought it Saturday August 26th and will be sending rescinding letter Monday August 28th before we leave Florida. I really thought we would get a free cruise for our 176000 points. That is the way the salesperson made it seem. And that we could stay anywhere at any of these places and only pay 299 if we didn't want to use points or whatever.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 6,927
- Reaction score
- 10,274
- Location
- Florida
- Resorts Owned
- Hgvc Anderson, Blue Ride Village Resort
TUG Rocks!It is not surprising that persons that rescinded do not show up or participate after posting. Unless they realized the value they could get in the resale market and how to use the timeshare exchange systems to find value and get great vacations, they probably never have a further need for this forum or site and never ever get into timesharing.
I was fortunate in that I understood the potential value of timeshares, did some research on TUG and then finally made a couple of great resale buys (at the time in 1990s) that delivered great vacations for my family and friends over the years (using a South African timeshare bought from the HOA to trade into our home resort for a second unit for friends vacationing with us or to trade into many other resorts).
Also, this is probably a fraction of the people who rescinded based on TUG. Many do not admit that they got swept up with the sale pitch and signed a contract that they really cannot afford or cannot use or get value from. They quietly go back home, research, and rescind (which is what my wife and I did back in the mid 1990s) without posting here.
I know people who are timeshare sales personnel that absolutely despise TUG. I sometimes feel sorry for them in how hard they work to get a sale and how important it can be for their personal income (and family) to make such sales only to have them rescinded when the person has regrets, does some research, and rescinds in a timely manner. But then I remember how inflated timeshare presentation prices are relative to the underlying values of units (prices are often 15% to 25% of actual prorated unit costs and sales and marketing often represent 50% or more of paid prices and overhead eats up much of the rest) and how inflated management fees can be when the timeshare is controlled and managed by a developer/promoter.
There has to be a better way and more efficient way to do this! The inefficiencies in the hotel/resort industry and timeshare industry have to mean that in a more efficient and informed world people could form timeshare co-ops without the huge selling, marketing, and overhead costs and without the seemingly high and unreasonable management fees. Maybe it is just humans and random circumstances are such that it is unreasonable to expect.
I do not understand how a standard two-bedroom "townhome style" timeshare unit (only about 1000 sq feet, less than my son's townhome) that would cost maybe $120,000 to $200,000 to buy and fully furnish (often cutting corners and done on plans with bulk contracts) plus maybe $25,000 to $100,000 in associated amenities and common resorts grounds prorated (depending on the amenities and facilities) if purchased new as a modest two bedroom condo with monthly/annual HOA common fees of say $1,500 to $2,000 per year (effectively $40 per week including the pool and grounds maintenance) needs to be sold for cumulative retail proceeds of maybe $1.0 million (for the lower end taking into account off season pricing) to over $2.0 million in the timeshare industry and then also demands $30,000 to $50,000+ in annual fees per unit per year (effectively $500 to $1,000 per week net of bad debt and vacant units) in maintenance fees to manage and build a replacement/restoration reserve. I understand the extra security staff, night staffing, housecleaning, maintenance, check-in and extra reservations staff needed for a timeshare as opposed to a condo substantially increases the weekly and annual staffing costs and I understand that the furniture can take a bit more wear and tear in the timeshare (debatable) but, really, it just does not cost that much to justify both the retail price and the maintenance fees if the timeshare developer/promoter did not have such high marketing, sales, and overhead costs and profit expectations to cover and did not incur such large bad debt losses on sales.
On the other hand, in the resale market, we are seeing people basically offering to largely give away their decent timeshares when theoretically, if management fees were appropriately set, and the resale market was efficient those weeks would typically have values in red seasons of maybe $5,000 on the low end to $15,000 on the high end (in peak weeks) relative to equivalent rent vs buy analyses over an expected life of say 20 years (assuming minimal salvage or resale value).
I was fortunate in that I understood the potential value of timeshares, did some research on TUG and then finally made a couple of great resale buys (at the time in 1990s) that delivered great vacations for my family and friends over the years (using a South African timeshare bought from the HOA to trade into our home resort for a second unit for friends vacationing with us or to trade into many other resorts).
Also, this is probably a fraction of the people who rescinded based on TUG. Many do not admit that they got swept up with the sale pitch and signed a contract that they really cannot afford or cannot use or get value from. They quietly go back home, research, and rescind (which is what my wife and I did back in the mid 1990s) without posting here.
I know people who are timeshare sales personnel that absolutely despise TUG. I sometimes feel sorry for them in how hard they work to get a sale and how important it can be for their personal income (and family) to make such sales only to have them rescinded when the person has regrets, does some research, and rescinds in a timely manner. But then I remember how inflated timeshare presentation prices are relative to the underlying values of units (prices are often 15% to 25% of actual prorated unit costs and sales and marketing often represent 50% or more of paid prices and overhead eats up much of the rest) and how inflated management fees can be when the timeshare is controlled and managed by a developer/promoter.
There has to be a better way and more efficient way to do this! The inefficiencies in the hotel/resort industry and timeshare industry have to mean that in a more efficient and informed world people could form timeshare co-ops without the huge selling, marketing, and overhead costs and without the seemingly high and unreasonable management fees. Maybe it is just humans and random circumstances are such that it is unreasonable to expect.
I do not understand how a standard two-bedroom "townhome style" timeshare unit (only about 1000 sq feet, less than my son's townhome) that would cost maybe $120,000 to $200,000 to buy and fully furnish (often cutting corners and done on plans with bulk contracts) plus maybe $25,000 to $100,000 in associated amenities and common resorts grounds prorated (depending on the amenities and facilities) if purchased new as a modest two bedroom condo with monthly/annual HOA common fees of say $1,500 to $2,000 per year (effectively $40 per week including the pool and grounds maintenance) needs to be sold for cumulative retail proceeds of maybe $1.0 million (for the lower end taking into account off season pricing) to over $2.0 million in the timeshare industry and then also demands $30,000 to $50,000+ in annual fees per unit per year (effectively $500 to $1,000 per week net of bad debt and vacant units) in maintenance fees to manage and build a replacement/restoration reserve. I understand the extra security staff, night staffing, housecleaning, maintenance, check-in and extra reservations staff needed for a timeshare as opposed to a condo substantially increases the weekly and annual staffing costs and I understand that the furniture can take a bit more wear and tear in the timeshare (debatable) but, really, it just does not cost that much to justify both the retail price and the maintenance fees if the timeshare developer/promoter did not have such high marketing, sales, and overhead costs and profit expectations to cover and did not incur such large bad debt losses on sales.
On the other hand, in the resale market, we are seeing people basically offering to largely give away their decent timeshares when theoretically, if management fees were appropriately set, and the resale market was efficient those weeks would typically have values in red seasons of maybe $5,000 on the low end to $15,000 on the high end (in peak weeks) relative to equivalent rent vs buy analyses over an expected life of say 20 years (assuming minimal salvage or resale value).