Hilton Grand Vacations strikes deal to acquire Diamond Resorts

[Fried_shrimp]

Stayed at greensprings 4x, including last month. I’ve always gotten what I requested-as an Rci trader. Resort fee is a money grab-exactly what I got for free before. but hgvc’s fee for traders is even worse.
Love this place! It’s my go to place for wllbg. It would be a great mid-Atlantic travel destination for hgvc, which is needed. It’s within driving distance of NY area and a good alternative to WDW for family travel, with colonial wllmbg and Busch gardens and easy day trip to VA Beach.
Units are refurbished (with really nice artwork) and it could easily be hgvc standards with some fixes. Floorplan is awesome, beds were great, nicely landscaped, huge deck, fabulous pools, esp indoor pools, spa and saunas (closed due to covid). It’s on a golf course with many units having golf views. Why it’s not up to par, little things, easily improved. Pans are cheap and nonstick was scratched badly. Cheap looking sofa, no granite/quartz in kitchen or bathrooms, Appliances still white (so either quite old, or they replaced with white) with renovation instead of paying more for stainless. Industrial Brown carpet was newish-but I’ve not been in any higher end timeshares that use that. No housekeeping checked our building all week, as a few tattered papers and cord from balloon stayed on stairs. Those are my hyper-critical observations. None significantly altered my enjoyment of the unit. Inside unit was spotless.
I saw workers power washing sidewalks and replacing siding, so looked like ongoing maintenance/attention occurs.

Interesting. I just stayed in Greenspings over New Years and had granite counter tops in the kitchen and bathrooms. We also had a stainless steel oven and stove.

 

[escanoe]

I’ve always gotten what I requested-as an Rci trader. Resort fee is a money grab-exactly what I got for free before. but hgvc’s fee for traders is even worse. Love this place! It’s my go to place for wllbg. It would be a great mid-Atlantic travel destination for hgvc, which is needed. It’s within driving distance of NY area and a good alternative to WDW for family travel, with colonial wllmbg and Busch gardens and easy day trip to VA Beach.

I still think it is wishful thinking that any Diamond properties are going to soon be integrated in the HGVC system in a way they can be easily booked directly. If that were the case, as a Mid-Atlantic resident, my choice of a Diamond resort in our region would be Oceanaire in Virginia Beach.

The realist in me thinks the best we can probably do in the short term is to trade into Diamond properties through Destination Xchange at a lower exchange fee than RCI and for Diamond and HGVC members not to have to pay each others resort fees.

 

[elaine]

Hmm. Weird. Maybe we got a unit with new furnishings, paint, carpet, beds but not granite? Counter was newish grey speckled Formica and bathrooms were white builder grade faux marble. Clean and in excellent condition.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

Hmm. Weird. Maybe we got a unit with new furnishings, paint, carpet, beds but not granite? Counter was newish grey speckled Formica and bathrooms were white builder grade faux marble. Clean and in excellent condition.

Or maybe I got an older unit and they are moving away from granite due to the costs of replacing it. Who knows?

 

[Fried_shrimp]

I still think it is wishful thinking that any Diamond properties are going to soon be integrated in the HGVC system in a way they can be easily booked directly. If that were the case, as a Mid-Atlantic resident, my choice of a Diamond resort in our region would be Oceanaire in Virginia Beach.

The realist in me thinks the best we can probably do in the short term is to trade into Diamond properties through Destination Xchange at a lower exchange fee than RCI and for Diamond and HGVC members not to have to pay each others resort fees.

It's interesting to mention that one of the members of my Diamond site stayed at a HGVC resort in Orlando a few weeks ago and they were going to charge her for parking (she said HGVC charges for parking for non-members but does not charge for members) and she said she was a Diamond owner and they removed the parking charge so maybe the last bit of your post is already happening. I was surprised they did that considering the sale isn't even finalized yet.

 

[dayooper]

I still think it is wishful thinking that any Diamond properties are going to soon be integrated in the HGVC system in a way they can be easily booked directly. If that were the case, as a Mid-Atlantic resident, my choice of a Diamond resort in our region would be Oceanaire in Virginia Beach.

The realist in me thinks the best we can probably do in the short term is to trade into Diamond properties through Destination Xchange at a lower exchange fee than RCI and for Diamond and HGVC members not to have to pay each others resort fees.

The optimist in me hopes the same thing. If HGVC wants an upsale line from DRI to HGVC, they need a way to get DRI members into HGVC resorts. The cleanest way to do that is by allowing easy, low to no cost exchanges between certain HGVC and DRI resorts. Very similar to what HGVC had with Club Intrawest before DRI bought them out. I think where resorts still have some deeded weeks (like Maui and Kauai), they may offer to enroll their weeks into HGVC (dual enrolled resort). Puts HGVC units into the DRI system. More easy exchanges.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

I read once that Diamond does have the right to ROFR but I have never heard of a single instance of them invoking ROFR. Considering many weeks and point contract are simply given away I believe this was just standard contract jargon and nothing they really care about doing.

Then it sounds like Diamond must have a lot of unsold inventory they can use for their sales and add to to their points trust.

Developers use ROFR as way to acquire inventory.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

Then it sounds like Diamond must have a lot of unsold inventory they can use for their sales and add to to their points trust.

Developers use ROFR as way to acquire inventory.

Yes, I would say Diamond still has a good bit of unsold inventory which is also why they charge $1,000 per contract for owners to return their contracts.

 

[Talent312]

Big Picture: I suspect this whole thing is designed to dilute
or encumber HGVC stock so it's less of a take-over target...
any benefit to the owners of either system will be incidental.

There may ultimately be some, but its not driving the bus.
.

 

[NiteMaire]

Does Diamond have ROFR on their deeded weeks or trust points (even if that‘s possible)?

For owners of full weeks they do not have ROFR, at least at Flamingo and Royal Palm in St. Maarten. I say full week owners because full week owners there are not deeded, but you do have the sole right to use that specific week.

I read once that Diamond does have the right to ROFR but I have never heard of a single instance of them invoking ROFR. Considering many weeks and point contract are simply given away I believe this was just standard contract jargon and nothing they really care about doing.

If they do, like @KathyA stated, it's not at all resorts. We recently acquired a deeded week at Sedona Summit, and I was assured by the broker that DRI does not have ROFR at SS.
@youppi can you provide additional insight?

 

[dayooper]

Big Picture: I suspect this whole thing is designed to dilute
or encumber HGVC stock so it's less of a take-over target...
any benefit to the owners of either system will be incidental.

There may ultimately be some, but its not driving the bus.
.

I think you are correct. Everything that will come from this will be done to protect the company and make money. Any benefit we get will be from that train of thought.

That being said, the biggest drawback with the HGVC system is lack of location (too concentrated in Vegas, Orlando, Oahu and Big Island) while other systems have many more locations. If they want to expand their ownership and sell the outrageously priced weeks, they need more locations. I would assume Marriott is their main competitor and they have so many more locations and adding Vistana just expands that. I believe that the two systems will remain the separate, but I also think a certain resorts will be available to both. If they pump up those certain locations (Maui, Kauai, Tahoe, Sedona and Pigeon Forge) they would be very attractive for us many of us HGVC members to exchange. Right now, there’s a top end to what existing customers can buy. At some point, you get to the top and there’s no more sales. Starting at a lower cost, you’ve got more rungs on the ladder to climb before you get to the top.

The biggest question will be the cost of being able to book across the systems. Will they go the Marriott route and make you have a developer purchase to get into the system or will it be an enrollment fee/increased yearly club dues?

 

[escanoe]

Right now, there’s a top end to what existing customers can buy. At some point, you get to the top and there’s no more sales. Starting at a lower cost, you’ve got more rungs on the ladder to climb before you get to the top.

I am about maxed out at the top (great resorts for one or two nice vacations a year.)At least until I am closer to retirement. They could sell more to me at the bottom. If they get more in the mid-Atlantic region and lower cost stuff for short stays at lower exchange costs than RCI Points, I would grown my number of HGVC points going down (lower scale). Those sales will be competing with Wyndham and things selling in RCI Points .... not competing with Marriott.

I believe the merger helps them compete both up scale and down scale. But I will bet Wyndham has more to lose than Marriott.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I think you are correct. Everything that will come from this will be done to protect the company and make money. Any benefit we get will be from that train of thought.

That being said, the biggest drawback with the HGVC system is lack of location (too concentrated in Vegas, Orlando, Oahu and Big Island) while other systems have many more locations. If they want to expand their ownership and sell the outrageously priced weeks, they need more locations. I would assume Marriott is their main competitor and they have so many more locations and adding Vistana just expands that. I believe that the two systems will remain the separate, but I also think a certain resorts will be available to both. If they pump up those certain locations (Maui, Kauai, Tahoe, Sedona and Pigeon Forge) they would be very attractive for us many of us HGVC members to exchange. Right now, there’s a top end to what existing customers can buy. At some point, you get to the top and there’s no more sales. Starting at a lower cost, you’ve got more rungs on the ladder to climb before you get to the top.

The biggest question will be the cost of being able to book across the systems. Will they go the Marriott route and make you have a developer purchase to get into the system or will it be an enrollment fee/increased yearly club dues?

I would hope that booking across systems would be the same reservation fee as it is now. After all they are merging the systems and I think they want owners in the two systems to take advantage of the benefits from the merger and exchange to the other system and buy more timeshares as well as tell other people how great the system is so that others buy into the new system. In some previous posts I mentioned that I would hope that those that don't own in the existing HGVC or Diamond Resorts Club would not get the same Club Reservation Window start date that owners of that Club get which is 9 months for HGVC and 10-13 months for Diamond. I believe the window should start at 3 or 6 months so that owners of that Club can book what they want before owners of the other club get the opportunity to make reservations.

 

[escanoe]

I would hope that booking across systems would be the same reservation fee as it is now. After all they are merging the systems and I think they want owners in the two systems to take advantage of the benefits from the merger and exchange to the other system

Hope springs eternal. I never expect the systems to be merged at this level, with some exceptions for a limited number of resorts over a few years.

A $150 exchange fee and resort fees waived through what has been known as Destination Exchange is about the best I think we could hope for ... and I would consider that lucky. Maybe Embarc and a few high end properties allow weeks to enroll in HGVC or have a fixed exchange rate. I am not holding my breath.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

I would hope that booking across systems would be the same reservation fee as it is now. After all they are merging the systems and I think they want owners in the two systems to take advantage of the benefits from the merger and exchange to the other system and buy more timeshares as well as tell other people how great the system is so that others buy into the new system. In some previous posts I mentioned that I would hope that those that don't own in the existing HGVC or Diamond Resorts Club would not get the same Club Reservation Window start date that owners of that Club get which is 9 months for HGVC and 10-13 months for Diamond. I believe the window should start at 3 or 6 months so that owners of that Club can book what they want before owners of the other club get the opportunity to make reservations.

Diamond has no reservation fee for internal bookings. A Diamond owner can book through the Diamond website at any of the 95 Diamond resorts and approximately 300 affiliates and not pay a single extra penny for those reservations as long as they are a member of The Club.

The feedback I'm getting is that the systems will not be merged other than at management level. Eventually there will be some cross connection between the two, for a price of course.

From the Diamond side of the house, reservation window language is written in the Trust so Club member and dirty point members all have the same reservation window.

FWIW: I have yet to speak to a purely Diamond owner who is interested in exchanging into the HGVC side of the house. I do know some Diamond owners who also simultaneously own with HGVC and they are the only ones who have expressed interest in using their Diamond points on the HGVC side of the house.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

Hope springs eternal. I never expect the systems to be merged at this level, with some exceptions for a limited number of resorts over a few years.

A $150 exchange fee and resort fees waived through what has been known as Destination Exchange is about the best I think we could hope for ... and I would consider that lucky. Maybe Embarc and a few high end properties allow weeks to enroll in HGVC or have a fixed exchange rate. I am not holding my breath.

The Exchange fee for DEX is based on the status of the member in Diamond. It can range from $159 for a Standard member (15,000 points or less) to $129 for a Platinum member (50,000 points or more). Yes, we have Centum level (and it's $119 for them) but that program just started in Jan 21 and I doubt there is more than a handful of them since even if one owned the 100,000 points to obtain the level, they still have to purchase another 10,000 points to get Centum status. One should never purchase points just for extra supposed benefits and when you have that many points already that is effectively what one is doing....paying more for supposedly better benefits that can change in a moment's notice.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Hope springs eternal. I never expect the systems to be merged at this level, with some exceptions for a limited number of resorts over a few years.

A $150 exchange fee and resort fees waived through what has been known as Destination Exchange is about the best I think we could hope for ... and I would consider that lucky. Maybe Embarc and a few high end properties allow weeks to enroll in HGVC or have a fixed exchange rate. I am not holding my breath.

I am not really saying that the systems would be merged at all. The integrity of the Clubs (HGVC and Diamond) would remain the same with no intermigling of the resorts. Home Resort Reservation Periods would remain the same. The difference would be that at a certain time during the Club Reservation Period, the period when members of a club can book resorts that THEY OWN, they would be able to book available inventory in the Club that you DON'T OWN paying the applicable reservation fee which is $59 in HGVC, (I don't know what it is in Diamond). Members of both clubs would be saved the high RCI reservation fee to make reservations and wouldn't have to wait until weeks are deposited into RCI for availability. The disadvantage to members of clubs would be that they would have to plan Club Reservations ahead alittle more since during the end of the Club Reservation Period additional eyes would be looking at the available inventory.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Diamond has no reservation fee for internal bookings. A Diamond owner can book through the Diamond website at any of the 95 Diamond resorts and approximately 300 affiliates and not pay a single extra penny for those reservations as long as they are a member of The Club.

The feedback I'm getting is that the systems will not be merged other than at management level. Eventually there will be some cross connection between the two, for a price of course.

From the Diamond side of the house, reservation window language is written in the Trust so Club member and dirty point members all have the same reservation window.

FWIW: I have yet to speak to a purely Diamond owner who is interested in exchanging into the HGVC side of the house. I do know some Diamond owners who also simultaneously own with HGVC and they are the only ones who have expressed interest in using their Diamond points on the HGVC side of the house.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

After all they are merging the systems and I think they want owners in the two systems to take advantage of the benefits from the merger and exchange to the other system

I am not really saying that the systems would be merged at all. The integrity of the Clubs (HGVC and Diamond) would remain the same with no intermigling of the resorts. Home Resort Reservation Periods would remain the same. The difference would be that at a certain time during the Club Reservation Period, the period when members of a club can book resorts that THEY OWN, they would be able to book available inventory in the Club that you DON'T OWN paying the applicable reservation fee which is $59 in HGVC, (I don't know what it is in Diamond). Members of both clubs would be saved the high RCI reservation fee to make reservations and wouldn't have to wait until weeks are deposited into RCI for availability. The disadvantage to members of clubs would be that they would have to plan Club Reservations ahead alittle more since during the end of the Club Reservation Period additional eyes would be looking at the available inventory.

You're kind of contradicting yourself here but in reality, none of us really know what's going to happen in June. It's speculation. From the Diamond side, I've been told our internal reservation windows will be the same we we won't have to pay as reservation fee for our internal exchanges which is what we have been doing for the last 14 years, at least. I will assume there will be no changes for HGVC members on the HGVC side of the house and y'all will continue to pay your $59 reservation fee. If all that is true, then the only speculation is how will y'all get into a Diamond resort and vice versa. The most popular theory is via DEX which carries an exchange fee of $119 to $159 based on VIP status on the Diamond side of the house. While there is some Diamond inventory in DEX, it is mostly RCI inventory. HGVC could build some type of mini-exchange for HGVC/Diamond owners (because there isn't a lot of Diamond in DEX) to use to intermingle but if they did that at the 3/6 month point prior to check in, there will be several resorts that y'all won't have access to or have limited access based on season due to the some of the resorts being very small (Charter Club in Naples, FL or Bent Creek in Gatlinburg, TN come to mind). Also, if using DEX, every exchange will have to be weekly based and not nightly based (a LOT of people in Diamond rarely stay an exact week.....we can book a reservation from 2 to 84 nights depending on how many points you own). Of course, nothing will be written in stone until after the expected closing the second week of June.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Diamond has no reservation fee for internal bookings. A Diamond owner can book through the Diamond website at any of the 95 Diamond resorts and approximately 300 affiliates and not pay a single extra penny for those reservations as long as they are a member of The Club.

The feedback I'm getting is that the systems will not be merged other than at management level. Eventually there will be some cross connection between the two, for a price of course.

From the Diamond side of the house, reservation window language is written in the Trust so Club member and dirty point members all have the same reservation window.

FWIW: I have yet to speak to a purely Diamond owner who is interested in exchanging into the HGVC side of the house. I do know some Diamond owners who also simultaneously own with HGVC and they are the only ones who have expressed interest in using their Diamond points on the HGVC side of the house.

You could be right that the systems will be only merged at the Management Level. However, that would certainly NOT be very big news for Owners/Members.

If Diamond has no reservation fee then the reservation fee for exchanging into Diamond Resorts then it could either be free or the $59 fee that HGVC charges for Club Reservations. HGVC gives all Club Members, Developer Purchasers and Resale Purchasers the same reservation window. Certainly if Diamond Members don't want to exchange into HGVC resorts that would be their choice but I believe that having the option of additonal resorts to book for the same reservation fee is a benefit.

Isn't it curious that while purely Diamond owners are not interested in exchanging into HGVC resorts, those that own both Diamond Resorts and HGVC Resorts seem to be interested!

 

[Fried_shrimp]

For the HGVC folks, I'm posting Diamond's benefit guide. How much of it survives the merger is purely speculative but it will give y'all an idea of how Diamond runs now.

 

[Tamaradarann]

You're kind of contradicting yourself here but in reality, none of us really know what's going to happen in June. It's speculation. From the Diamond side, I've been told our internal reservation windows will be the same we we won't have to pay as reservation fee for our internal exchanges which is what we have been doing for the last 14 years, at least. I will assume there will be no changes for HGVC members on the HGVC side of the house and y'all will continue to pay your $59 reservation fee. If all that is true, then the only speculation is how will y'all get into a Diamond resort and vice versa. The most popular theory is via DEX which carries an exchange fee of $119 to $159 based on VIP status on the Diamond side of the house. While there is some Diamond inventory in DEX, it is mostly RCI inventory. HGVC could build some type of mini-exchange for HGVC/Diamond owners (because there isn't a lot of Diamond in DEX) to use to intermingle but if they did that at the 3/6 month point prior to check in, there will be several resorts that y'all won't have access to or have limited access based on season due to the some of the resorts being very small (Charter Club in Naples, FL or Bent Creek in Gatlinburg, TN come to mind). Also, if using DEX, every exchange will have to be weekly based and not nightly based (a LOT of people in Diamond rarely stay an exact week.....we can book a reservation from 2 to 84 nights depending on how many points you own). Of course, nothing will be written in stone until after the expected closing the second week of June.

Please explain your statement. "You're kind of contradicting yourself here". Either I don't see the contradiction or perhaps our terminology definitions are different.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Please explain your statement. "You're kind of contradicting yourself here". Either I don't see the contradiction or perhaps our terminology definitions are different.

I re-read the first line of your post which I didn't catch before, so I will clarify for us. While the systems would be merged, The CLUBS and RESORTS IN THE CLUBS would NOT be merged.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

You could be right that the systems will be only merged at the Management Level. However, that would certainly NOT be very big news for Owners/Members.

If Diamond has no reservation fee then the reservation fee for exchanging into Diamond Resorts then it could either be free or the $59 fee that HGVC charges for Club Reservations. HGVC gives all Club Members, Developer Purchasers and Resale Purchasers the same reservation window. Certainly if Diamond Members don't want to exchange into HGVC resorts that would be their choice but I believe that having the option of additonal resorts to book for the same reservation fee is a benefit.

Isn't it curious that while purely Diamond owners are not interested in exchanging into HGVC resorts, those that own both Diamond Resorts and HGVC Resorts seem to be interested!

I don't know the history or financial abilities of the few folks that own in both systems so I can't say why they own in both or how happy they are with their choices on either side. For many Diamond owners, one of the big reasons to purchase (or switch our fixed/floating weeks to points) was based on not having to pay exchange (reservation) fees anymore. We currently have almost 400 resorts we can go to without having to pay an exchange fee. As some salesman like to say, our points are like cash. If a reservation is 2,500 points then we just use 2,500 points and that's it. Since we all pretty much agree that any intermingling will cost some type of fee, that is a negative for Diamond owners whereas it isn't for HGVC owners since y'all are used to paying a reservation fee to stay anywhere other than your home resort. Another point is that there are very few locations that HGVC has where there isn't already a Diamond resort and since your resorts seem to be considered more luxurious, they would likely cost more points as well. From the Diamond perspective, would I rather pay 4,000 points for a week at Mystic Dunes in Orlando or 10,000 points for a HGVC in Orlando? Personally, I'm going with the former. I'm not saying that on average HGVC owners are richer than Diamond owners but it is a possibility which is why Diamond owners work hard to maximize their point usage and prefer a system that has fewer "gotcha" fees (such as paying to save points to the following year). Believe it or not, only merging at the Management level WOULD be big (and happy) news for Diamond owners. I'll grant you it wouldn't be for HGVC owners since y'all are looking forward to having more locations to exchange to. Of course, only time will tell what will really happen between us.

 

[NOLA47]

I realize maintenance fees are supposed to be for resort maintenance, but could the no reservation fees be the reason for the exceptionally high maintenance fees for Diamond owners that we are hearing some owners complain about? I will be awfully disappointed after the big announcement if the merger does NOT allow reservations for across both companies.