Hilton Grand Vacations strikes deal to acquire Diamond Resorts

[cd5]

Interesting and very long thread to read! As an Embarc/Club Intrawest member I'd like to add my comments. For Embarc members, many of whom are long-time members, the HGVC acquisition seems to be a positive development. Many (based on discussions in our Facebook group) are hoping for an affiliation similar to what we had before Diamond bought us as it would expand our "internal" trading without dealing with an exchange company. I believe Hilton would have a hard time integrating our clubs, just as DRI did - deciding rather, to operate on the "peripheries" with their developer program, Extraordinary Escapes, because of the trust structure - and the fact that it is 97% owned by individual members - basically sold out, with extremely low delinquency numbers.
They could, if they wanted, add properties to the trust (with the appropriate points values) to expand, or take properties out - however to do that, property with "equivalent" value must be added to the trust to balance the points.
Before 2016 Embarc members could book (in limited quantities) Hilton resorts directly in our own reservation "grid" without an exchange fee, & move unused points into Hilton Honors, (which never expire). Availability for booking was always dependent on members on each side relinquishing their points to go to the other's resorts, and possibly developer points added to the inventory.
It will be interesting to see if things go back to a similar, much-liked arrangement or if Hilton will come up with something completely new.

 

[GT75]

As an Embarc/Club Intrawest member I'd like to add my comments.

Thank you for your comments. I actually have been more interested in getting comments from Embarc/Club Intrawest members because of our former exchange agreement between HGVC and Intrawest. This whole thread is pure speculation but I agree with your perspective.

Before 2016 Embarc members could book (in limited quantities) Hilton resorts directly in our own reservation "grid" without an exchange fee,

We could also book your resorts (in limited quantities). I would also like to have that same internal exchange agreement back. Embarc/Intrawest has some very nice resorts and I think HGVC also has some nice resorts, so I think that the previous exchange agreement was beneficial to both groups. I know that we used this exchange agreement once to send my son and DIL on their honeymoon to Interwest - Zihuatanejo. They thoroughly love the resort.

 

[Zenichiro]

Sorry to keep this thread going but I found this article interesting.

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[sng85]

Diamond does not. Raintree owns that one. Diamond has an affiliation with Raintree so Diamond can make it available to its members.

Does anyone know if Diamond owns Teton Club? I’d definitely trade for that when we visit Yellowstone.

Teton Club is actually independently managed. Not owned by Raintree or Diamond. Teton club owners can deposit their week into Raintree for exchange, which is how Raintree members get access to Teton Club, although it is limited. It’s possible that Raintree or Diamond may have purchased weeks from the Teton Club developer to make additional inventory available to their members, but I don’t know that for sure.

 

[Zenichiro]

That would be cool if so.

 

[Mongoose]

I wonder if this is a result of COVID. Could be that COVID killed their financials and caused them to go with a fire sale. I've always liked the Diamond properties, however the culture/environment I've always found toxic. Maybe HGVC will fix that.

 

[Zenichiro]

I personally do not think Apollo lost anything on the deal. They recieved all stock with HGV at a low level and also now have a minor controlling stake 28%. Gaining around $8 per share so far I should add.
But I do agree that the management overall should hopefully get better for (Diamond) HVC. I do worry that Apollo gets to add 2 board members to HGV so there will still be some influence.

 

[jehb2]

WE stayed at the Sheraton Wall Centre in Vancouver. That was a blast.

I know some people like Kaanapali Beach Club in Maui. As much as I‘ve wanted to go back to Maui I could never bring myself to book there.

 

[Tamaradarann]

WE stayed at the Sheraton Wall Centre in Vancouver. That was a blast.

I know some people like Kaanapali Beach Club in Maui. As much as I‘ve wanted to go back to Maui I could never bring myself to book there.

We have neve been to Vancouver what was so special about the Sheraton? Does Diamond own that property? We have been to the KBC why haven't you been able to bring yourself to book there?

 

[JIMinNC]

I personally do not think Apollo lost anything on the deal. They recieved all stock with HGV at a low level and also now have a minor controlling stake 28%. Gaining around $8 per share so far I should add.
But I do agree that the management overall should hopefully get better for (Diamond) HVC. I do worry that Apollo gets to add 2 board members to HGV so there will still be some influence.

The Diamond sales and management philosophy existed long before their acquisition by Apollo. All Apollo really cares about is generating an attractive return on their investors' investments. I suspect one of the reasons they did the deal with HGV in control was to allow the HGV management to clean up the Diamond mess. The fact that Apollo gets two board seats shouldn't have an overly negative impact on HGV, unless they fail to generate attractive returns on their stock.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Agree that would rather have Apollo fill those seats vs. Diamond, I will be watching carefully who in Apollo fills those seats and key management positions to assess Diamond culture influence on HGVC (IMO the less the better).

Did they disclose if they will be expanding the board to 9 (i.e. 2/9 votes)? (better) or keep it at 7 (2 out of 7 votes)? Here is the current board composition:

Hilton Grand Vacations Inc. - Governance - Board of Directors

investors.hgv.com

 

[Zenichiro]

HGV’s Board of Directors will be expanded from 7 to 9 members, and the Apollo Funds will have the right to appoint two directors as long as their equity ownership remains at or above 15% of the outstanding stock at closing and one director as long as their equity ownership remains at or above 10% of the outstanding stock at closing.

https://www.hiltongrandvacations.com/-/media/project/hgv/presence/news-media/press-releases-pdf/hgv_press-release_2021-03-10_final.pdf?la=en

 

[sfwilshire]

When DRI took over resorts, they jacked up the maintenance fees. From what I understand, early on they would also do a lot to upgrade the resorts and bring them up to better quality. Later, they just jacked up the fees without much return for the owners.

Definitely what happened when Diamond took over Mystic Dunes. We have been satisfied with our units, for the most part, but they do an awful lot of rentals to the public. A family member rented from them recently and gave the unit a one-star, even though they had happily shared our 3-br unit multiple times.

Sheila

 

[escanoe]

A family member rented from them recently and gave the unit a one-star, even though they had happily shared our 3-br unit multiple times.

Sheila

What does Diamond do to make renting only a one star visit versus their happy stay with you?

 

[tschwa2]

What does Diamond do to make renting only a one star visit versus their happy stay with you?

I stayed at Greensprings resort in Williamsburg one time about 10 years ago. The positive was it was one of the best designed handicap accessible rooms that I have stayed in. The downside (which honestly I don't care about so much) is that the resort furniture and color scheme made it look like it was 10-15 years since a full refurbishment.

Unlike Westgate that I hear, puts resale owners in the crappy unrefurbished rooms and/or worst views and puts what they consider "real" owners who bought direct in the better units. Diamond doesn't put resale owners in worse units but they are extra slow in finishing refurbishments so there is always buildings or parts of buildings that have not been updated to put exchangers and rentals. That way when their incredibly pushy sales staff at the parking pass/key desk get you onto a tour they can tout how good they treat their owners and even if you stay at the resort through exchange you will never get the updated units unless you become an owner. I felt like if they had 10 buildings they just didn't bother to refurbish the last 2. It had been 5 years since the other 8 buildings were refurbished and maybe in 5 more they would start with 2 that weren't refurbished last time and then leave 2 of the others undone so that in another 10 years those two would get done. For a gold crown resort with RCI, my unit looked like a non rated ocean city resort. If exchangers get what looks like a standard unit then it should be advertised as such. The things I really didn't like was the pushy offensive parking pass process and the extra fees (now rolled into a daily mandatory resort fee) that non of the other timeshare resorts in the area (Williamsburg) were charging at the time. It was also July and they only had one pool which looked fairly big but for the size of the resort it was like 150+ people standing in a bathtub because there was no room to swim or play.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

I stayed at Greensprings resort in Williamsburg one time about 10 years ago. The positive was it was one of the best designed handicap accessible rooms that I have stayed in. The downside (which honestly I don't care about so much) is that the resort furniture and color scheme made it look like it was 10-15 years since a full refurbishment.

Unlike Westgate that I hear, puts resale owners in the crappy unrefurbished rooms and/or worst views and puts what they consider "real" owners who bought direct in the better units. Diamond doesn't put resale owners in worse units but they are extra slow in finishing refurbishments so there is always buildings or parts of buildings that have not been updated to put exchangers and rentals. That way when their incredibly pushy sales staff at the parking pass/key desk get you onto a tour they can tout how good they treat their owners and even if you stay at the resort through exchange you will never get the updated units unless you become an owner. I felt like if they had 10 buildings they just didn't bother to refurbish the last 2. It had been 5 years since the other 8 buildings were refurbished and maybe in 5 more they would start with 2 that weren't refurbished last time and then leave 2 of the others undone so that in another 10 years those two would get done. For a gold crown resort with RCI, my unit looked like a non rated ocean city resort. If exchangers get what looks like a standard unit then it should be advertised as such. The things I really didn't like was the pushy offensive parking pass process and the extra fees (now rolled into a daily mandatory resort fee) that non of the other timeshare resorts in the area (Williamsburg) were charging at the time. It was also July and they only had one pool which looked fairly big but for the size of the resort it was like 150+ people standing in a bathtub because there was no room to swim or play.

Actually Wyndham does the exact same thing and goes so far (at least at their Worldmark resort in Orlando) to build two types of units, one for owners and one for exchangers/renters. The owner's unit was much more plush and larger than the exchange unit.

 

[tschwa2]

Actually Wyndham does the exact same thing and goes so far (at least at their Worldmark resort in Orlando) to build two types of units, one for owners and one for exchangers/renters. The owner's unit was much more plush and larger than the exchange unit.

While the units with Wyndham might not be the best, the Diamond one that I stayed in looked like it hadn't been refurbed in 10-15 years. With Wyndham they might give the older not recently refurbed but it they look like they are at or toward the end of the refurbed cycle, not 5-10 years past when it should have been refurbished. I stay in non rated beach resorts like that along the atlantic coast. A gold crown rated resort that charges one of the highest management fees and likes to compare itself with top tier timeshare developers should not.

There are some large multi hoa campus like wyndham resorts that the quality varies wildly between HOA's. In those cases it may end up in a similar situation to the one I had at Greensprings but my understanding is that Greensprings is a single HOA so there is no reason for the units to be so differnt.

 

[escanoe]

Actually Wyndham does the exact same thing and goes so far (at least at their Worldmark resort in Orlando) to build two types of units, one for owners and one for exchangers/renters. The owner's unit was much more plush and larger than the exchange unit.

My experience exchanging into Wyndham is they have been very responsive to advance requests related to room assignments and provided good rooms.

 

[tschwa2]

My experience exchanging into Wyndham is they have been very responsive to advance requests related to room assignments and provided good rooms.

The ones that I might be concerned about are Edisto, Smugglers notch (although you can often tell the section by the private/non private capacity) and Pagosa and a few others where the difference between HOA's could be substantial and during times when there isn't vacancies.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Wow. This is eye-opening. Although they may not give you the room with the best view if you are an II or RCI trader, the top tiers (Hilton, MVC, Vistana, Hyatt) do not intentionally differentiate the quality of the room if you are resale.

Now I know not to trade into Wyndham, Westgate, or Diamond!

 

[sfwilshire]

What does Diamond do to make renting only a one star visit versus their happy stay with you?

Apparently they were put into a really bad unit. There was a long list of things they found wrong in the unit.

I guess I should be happy if they are saving the better units for owners. Or maybe my family/friends were more critical when they were paying a fairly significant rental rate than when they were staying with me at no cost.

I do know that owners are probably better at reporting problems than renters (though I report regardless of my status). We stayed in another resort in March and had three fairly significant complaints, but didn't want to bother with maintenance during a 7 night visit. So we just put up with them and gave a list when we called to check-out.

Sheila

 

[dayooper]

Does Diamond have ROFR on their deeded weeks or trust points (even if that‘s possible)?

 

[KathyA]

Does Diamond have ROFR on their deeded weeks or trust points (even if that‘s possible)?

For owners of full weeks they do not have ROFR, at least at Flamingo and Royal Palm in St. Maarten. I say full week owners because full week owners there are not deeded, but you do have the sole right to use that specific week.

 

[elaine]

Stayed at greensprings 4x, including last month. I’ve always gotten what I requested-as an Rci trader. Resort fee is a money grab-exactly what I got for free before. but hgvc’s fee for traders is even worse.
Love this place! It’s my go to place for wllbg. It would be a great mid-Atlantic travel destination for hgvc, which is needed. It’s within driving distance of NY area and a good alternative to WDW for family travel, with colonial wllmbg and Busch gardens and easy day trip to VA Beach.
Units are refurbished (with really nice artwork) and it could easily be hgvc standards with some fixes. Floorplan is awesome, beds were great, nicely landscaped, huge deck, fabulous pools, esp indoor pools, spa and saunas (closed due to covid). It’s on a golf course with many units having golf views. Why it’s not up to par, little things, easily improved. Pans are cheap and nonstick was scratched badly. Cheap looking sofa, no granite/quartz in kitchen or bathrooms, Appliances still white (so either quite old, or they replaced with white) with renovation instead of paying more for stainless. Industrial Brown carpet was newish-but I’ve not been in any higher end timeshares that use that. No housekeeping checked our building all week, as a few tattered papers and cord from balloon stayed on stairs. Those are my hyper-critical observations. None significantly altered my enjoyment of the unit. Inside unit was spotless.
I saw workers power washing sidewalks and replacing siding, so looked like ongoing maintenance/attention occurs.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

Does Diamond have ROFR on their deeded weeks or trust points (even if that‘s possible)?

I read once that Diamond does have the right to ROFR but I have never heard of a single instance of them invoking ROFR. Considering many weeks and point contract are simply given away I believe this was just standard contract jargon and nothing they really care about doing.