he now has to eat 800 calories a day less than a typical man his size

[heathpack]

That doesn't actually follow.

For example, if throughout most of human history that:

- high calorie foods were relatively scarce (meat dairy sugar and oil were rare and/or expensive, resource-intensive, etc)

- sedentary lifestyles were relatively rare (before industrial revolution there was a lack of technology to do most manual tasks thus humans had to do more physical work on a daily basis)

- obesity level weight-gain during childhood and early adulthood was rare (example, in most of history children did manual labor and did not have free public education which prioritizes deskwork over PE and recess - studies suggest that weight-gain in childhood or early adulthood influences long-term weight)

- dieting was not a thing (see the 2nd article I posted)

- obesity or lack of it is not a good predictor of evolutionary fitness (eg plenty of fat people live quite a while and certainly long enough to reproduce AND some human populations DID "evolve to be overweight" due to cold climate)

So are you saying that people cannot become aware of the fact that high calorie foods are to be avoided or consumed sparingly? Or that they cannot learn that a sedentary lifestyle could lead to obesity & instead adopt an active lifestyle?

Sure humans evolved to be metabolically efficient on both the in/out side of the calorie equation. But that does not mean they are evolutionarily or biologically destined to be overweight, not the same thing.

As an aside, I raced my bike today. Technically I did better than I've done previously on that course but I could have done better. I knew two racing friends would be there today and that I probably couldn't beat them. One is my time trial Nemesis, she has won the SoCal time trial series (a series of 10 races that we just finished today) the past four years straight. And MEA who used to share a coach with me and is the reining masters national TT champ and who BTW also set a world record last year at the 2000m distance on the track (as in velodrome). We were chatting at the finish and MEA was telling me some woman BLEW past her like she was standing still. Ruh oh, someone beat MEA, that means I probably finished off-the-podium in 4th place.

Yep that's exactly what happened: Nemesis second, MEA third, me fourth. Total lol to see who won, it was Amber Neben, a recently retired pro, ten years younger than me. Former pro world TT champ. Winner of multiple pro international stage races (these are very difficult multi-day races). Think a female Lance Armstrong but without the doping. Turns out she lives in the neighborhood.

Anyway, win or lose, it was just totally cool to be out there racing with these bad-a$$ women and doing ok at it. And then casually chatting and hanging out afterwards. Me. The former couch potato. I love it.

 

[VegasBella]

So are you saying that people cannot become aware of the fact that high calorie foods are to be avoided or consumed sparingly? Or that they cannot learn that a sedentary lifestyle could lead to obesity & instead adopt an active lifestyle?

No.

I poked holes in your claim of a causal relationship between "until very recently, most people were not overweight" and "therefore weight is a managable thing for most people." I'm simply saying it doesn't follow. Without more evidence to back up your claim it's not "very likely."

What is more likely given the plethora of studies cited in these articles I posted as well as the articles others have posted here in this thread is that large, longterm weight loss that resulted from longterm obesity is a complicated struggle for most people that may involve genetic, hormonal, and psychological factors. No one is saying it's impossible.

 

[heathpack]

No.

I poked holes in your claim of a causal relationship between "until very recently, most people were not overweight" and "therefore weight is a managable thing for most people." I'm simply saying it doesn't follow. Without more evidence to back up your claim it's not "very likely."

What is more likely given the plethora of studies cited in these articles I posted as well as the articles others have posted here in this thread is that large, longterm weight loss that resulted from longterm obesity is a complicated struggle for most people that may involve genetic, hormonal, and psychological factors. No one is saying it's impossible.

If the normal state for body weight for most people for most of human history was to be slim, then what do you think accounts for the rise in obesity over the last few decades?

The point that I was trying to make is that it's not human physiology that has changed in that short time. Therefore it's has to be factors external to any of us.

Most of these factors are within our control- food choices, degree of physical activity, managing stress, sleeping enough. They require education for people to understand, sure, and a willingness to not just go with the flow culturally. It would be helpful if we as a culture changed certain pervasive attitudes, weight management would be easier & more automatic. But these are not things we are powerless about.

Some factors that lead to obesity are outside of people's control, of course. You might need to take a life-saving medication that has the side effect of causing weight gain for example. You might have illnesses which restrict food choices and/or limit your ability to be active.

Again, I'm not saying its an *easy* thing to do. I'm not saying anyone should or should not lose weight. I'm just saying that it is not inevitable that humans become or remain overweight.

 

[heathpack]

I think there are way more processed foods being consumed, also genetically Having never in my life had a problem w/extra pounds found it shocking to reach my middle 40's when I started experiencing migraines (perimenopausal ) stopped w/hormone patches. Then too with no changes to anything I was doing/eating extra pounds started showing up:annoyed:. Also watched my female friends of similar age add extra lbs they'd never had before

You know that this is normal & expected, right?

Do you know weight gain occurs in women of your age and what to do to (try to) stave off the weight gain?

Hint: it's not eat less. Good news.

 

[x3 skier]

If the normal state for body weight for most people for most of human history was to be slim, then what do you think accounts for the rise in obesity over the last few decades?

The point that I was trying to make is that it's not human physiology that has changed in that short time. Therefore it's has to be factors external to any of us.

Most of these factors are within our control- food choices, degree of physical activity, managing stress, sleeping enough. They require education for people to understand, sure, and a willingness to not just go with the flow culturally. It would be helpful if we as a culture changed certain pervasive attitudes, weight management would be easier & more automatic. But these are not things we are powerless about.

Some factors that lead to obesity are outside of people's control, of course. You might need to take a life-saving medication that has the side effect of causing weight gain for example. You might have illnesses which restrict food choices and/or limit your ability to be active.

Again, I'm not saying its an *easy* thing to do. I'm not saying anyone should or should not lose weight. I'm just saying that it is not inevitable that humans become or remain overweight.

I agree with you. I find it incredible to think that there has been some sudden change in human beings' physiology that has caused a significant increase in obesity. If the type of foods available result in the normal metabolism of a human being to gain weight while they are also becoming more sedentary as is the current view of most experts I read about, the choice is to not eat those foods and become less sedentary. If people spread the word that certain types of food and lack of exercise WILL result in weight gain, great. If they, OTOH, spread the word we are all doomed no matter what we do, it's not helpful.

Life has many choices. I chose to eat and exercise to maintain a healthy weight, even if it's on the high side of "normal". I'm back to within 20 pounds of the weight I graduated from college 50 years ago after being almost 50 pounds fatter. I can live with that.

This isn't Rocket Science to me (used to work on rocket engines a long time ago, ).

Cheers

 

[VegasBella]

I find it incredible to think that there has been some sudden change in human beings' physiology that has caused a significant increase in obesity.

It think you may be misreading the articles. The theory is NOT that there has been any drastic change in human physiology.

The theory is that the same physiology (metabolic efficiency) that was advantageous during times when high-calorie food was relatively scarce, dieting was rare, and intense daily physical activity was necessary for survival is no longer advantageous in today's society. That today, given the abundance of high-calorie foods and lifestyles that are so far less physically demanding that it's actually difficult to find enough time to do the minimum 9 hours of intense exercise per week recommended for sustained weight-loss. The idea is that metabolic efficiency has generally been a very good thing for our evolution.

I'll say it again... The theory is that the same physiology that was advantageous for most of human history is no longer advantageous.

The second part of the theory is that this historically advantageous metabolic efficiency influences feelings of hunger (through various hormones) and thus makes the amount of will-power necessary for sustained weight-loss enormous. Again, as already stated in the articles and posts here, it's not impossible to ignore the hunger and avoid the high calorie foods and sustain the weight-loss on a lower than average daily caloric intake, but it IS difficult. It's extremely difficult and it's worth recognizing just how difficult it really is.

 

[Tia]

You know that this is normal & expected, right? Actually didn't until it happened

Do you know weight gain occurs in women of your age and what to do to (try to) stave off the weight gain?no fun in that, prefer to have the hormones back

Hint: it's not eat less. Good news. oh it's all about limited eating/drinking all the good stuff that used to be able to do....

my 2cents in purple

 

[heathpack]

It think you may be misreading the articles. The theory is NOT that there has been any drastic change in human physiology.

The theory is that the same physiology (metabolic efficiency) that was advantageous during times when high-calorie food was relatively scarce, dieting was rare, and intense daily physical activity was necessary for survival is no longer advantageous in today's society. That today, given the abundance of high-calorie foods and lifestyles that are so far less physically demanding that it's actually difficult to find enough time to do the minimum 9 hours of intense exercise per week recommended for sustained weight-loss. The idea is that metabolic efficiency has generally been a very good thing for our evolution.

I'll say it again... The theory is that the same physiology that was advantageous for most of human history is no longer advantageous.

The second part of the theory is that this historically advantageous metabolic efficiency influences feelings of hunger (through various hormones) and thus makes the amount of will-power necessary for sustained weight-loss enormous. Again, as already stated in the articles and posts here, it's not impossible to ignore the hunger and avoid the high calorie foods and sustain the weight-loss on a lower than average daily caloric intake, but it IS difficult. It's extremely difficult and it's worth recognizing just how difficult it really is.

Or it takes zero willpower. Depending on how you do it.

 

[vacationhopeful]

20-25+ years ago, I used to have French teenage girls as foreign exchange students living with me for 3-5 weeks during the summer. No school ..they just had to engage in my life's activities. Maybe over 6-7 summers; 1 teenage girl during July and the other during August. I never left them back at my house.

Great Fun .. as I got to take them to all my construction sites and they watch as I dealt with my client population (telling my tenants, "they are foreign and speak no English"). And they got to eat lunchtime Fast Food .. or as they would say "MACdonalds" or PIZZA and I would vote for KFC (which they insisted had to be eaten with forks).

The amount of food they consumed was very modest plus they preferred healthy options ... compared to American teenagers.

Live either in a different culture or have guests stay with you ... the girls would tell me, how FAT Americans are and how they all eat too much. But they all LOVE Pizza.

So very unlike US teenagers as I saw all the French teenagers for the weekly sightseeing trip dropoff and pickup... 35-40 kids each month. I don't recall any of these French teenagers having even a slight "overweight" issue.

 

["Roger"]

...

Live either in a different culture or have guests stay with you ... the girls would tell me, how FAT Americans are and how they all eat too much. But they all LOVE Pizza.

So very unlike US teenagers as I saw all the French teenagers for the weekly sightseeing trip dropoff and pickup... 35-40 kids each month. I don't recall any of these French teenagers having even a slight "overweight" issue.

My wife spent a year in France maybe forty years ago. She remembers when she and some other girls went out for pizza, the French girls would eat a single slice for lunch. At the same time, it was not unusual for kids in the dorm where I lived to have an entire pizza just for an evening snack.

 

[x3 skier]

Or it takes zero willpower. Depending on how you do it.

Once again I agree. For some reason, I cannot seem to communicate that I believe since physiology very unlikely to have changed, eating and excercise must have changed if there are more obese persons. Since not everyone is obese, especially Europeans, for example as others have noted, this is not an insurmountable or even difficult thing to do.

Cheers

 

[heathpack]

my 2cents in purple

Actually what I was getting at is that we all lose muscle mass as we age & at the same time our metabolism slows as well. Eat the same and you'll gain weight.

The thing to do is to build muscle and burn calories. Ideally burn enough calories to actually eat a little more (because calorie restriction further decreases metabolic rate whereas eating increases metabolic rate), but this is hard work.

The extent to which do any of these things depends on your body type (muscular vs chubby), your current weight, your available time, your interest level, etc.

I know people are going to chime in now that exercise has been "proven" not to work. The reality is that exercise is not just a single thing & there's all kinds of ways in which these studies sabotage the exercise programs they look at. From the perspective of an athlete, you look at these study designs and say "duh, that's not going to work".

Whatever. I'm pretty confident in my understanding of all of this, where the flaws are in the studies & the popular thinking. At this point, it's turning into something akin to a political argument. People are going to believe what they want to believe.

The biggest issue IMO is actually cultural. Americans want what they want. They want the food they want, they want the lifestyle they want, they want hard things to be easy, they want complex things to be simple.

For the most part, I'm going to bow out of this thread from here on. I could actually go into pretty good depth on a lot of these concepts but in reality I'm not sure it would change much and it's pretty time-consuming.

Good luck to every one of you who are interested in managing their weight! You can do it.

 

[x3 skier]

Whatever. I'm pretty confident in my understanding of all of this, where the flaws are in the studies & the popular thinking. At this point, it's turning into something akin to a political argument. People are going to believe what they want to believe.

The biggest issue IMO is actually cultural. Americans want what they want. They want the food they want, they want the lifestyle they want, they want hard things to be easy, they want complex things to be simple.

For the most part, I'm going to bow out of this thread from here on. I could actually go into pretty good depth on a lot of these concepts but in reality I'm not sure it would change much and it's pretty time-consuming.

Good luck to every one of you who are interested in managing their weight! You can do it.

Well said and good luck to all. Tuning out as well.

Cheers

 

[VegasBella]

"Europeans aren't obese"...

Actually the WHO says:

The worldwide prevalence of obesity nearly doubled between 1980 and 2008. According to country estimates for 2008, over 50% of both men and women in the WHO European Region were overweight, and roughly 23% of women and 20% of men were obese.

http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/noncommunicable-diseases/obesity/data-and-statistics

FACT: your individual experiences are only one data point.

 

[WinniWoman]

Actually what I was getting at is that we all lose muscle mass as we age & at the same time our metabolism slows as well. Eat the same and you'll gain weight.

The thing to do is to build muscle and burn calories. Ideally burn enough calories to actually eat a little more (because calorie restriction further decreases metabolic rate whereas eating increases metabolic rate), but this is hard work.

The extent to which do any of these things depends on your body type (muscular vs chubby), your current weight, your available time, your interest level, etc.

I know people are going to chime in now that exercise has been "proven" not to work. The reality is that exercise is not just a single thing & there's all kinds of ways in which these studies sabotage the exercise programs they look at. From the perspective of an athlete, you look at these study designs and say "duh, that's not going to work".

Whatever. I'm pretty confident in my understanding of all of this, where the flaws are in the studies & the popular thinking. At this point, it's turning into something akin to a political argument. People are going to believe what they want to believe.

The biggest issue IMO is actually cultural. Americans want what they want. They want the food they want, they want the lifestyle they want, they want hard things to be easy, they want complex things to be simple.

For the most part, I'm going to bow out of this thread from here on. I could actually go into pretty good depth on a lot of these concepts but in reality I'm not sure it would change much and it's pretty time-consuming.

Good luck to every one of you who are interested in managing their weight! You can do it.

I know you are outta here- but here's the flaw. There are plenty of older people that don't exercise at all and are thin. Maybe they eat a few sunflower seeds each day and call it quits, I don't know. Seriously, I assume they don't eat much.

Yes- you can say to exercise more so you can eat more. Trouble is we are all getting older- so what do you think everyone is going to race bike like 8 hours per day as they keep aging and getting into their 70s and 80s?

For those less obsessive compulsive and with a life going on besides trying to compete with themselves and others in the exercise realm, I still go back to a realistic plan of exercising moderately for an hour each day and keeping calories to a reasonable limit. Eat healthy and for the weight you would like to be for the activity level you are at. Keep active, but don't obsess about it. Do some physical work around your home and yard. Be conscious if you are stationary for too long a period of time each day.

Splurge from time to time and enjoy the foods and beverages we are all so lucky to have available to us.

Don't feel guilty if you are tired and need a lounging around day once in a while. Get a good amount of sleep and try to keep stress to a minimum of possible. Get an annual Physical and health screenings and dental visit.

Take a multi vitamin, probiotics and whatever other supplements might be of help or recommended by your doctor.

That's my advice for what it is worth.

 

[heathpack]

For those less obsessive compulsive and with a life going on besides trying to compete with themselves and others in the exercise realm, I still go back to a realistic plan of exercising moderately for an hour each day.

Lol, I'm not obsessive compulsive. I just happen to have found something I enjoy. Like you enjoy your pasta night. Just because you don't understand it or can't relate to it does not make it psychologically unhealthy. I honestly can't relate to the pasta attachment, but to each his/her own.

And really? You think I don't have a life going on outside of cycling? Hmm, I wonder what you imagine you actually know about me- my career, my other interests, my relationships, etc? Laughable since I already mentioned that I ride 8-10 hours a week. Hmm, I wonder what ever I do with myself the rest of the week. It's completely empty...

No need to feel defensive because someone disagrees with you. You don't need to try to undermine the other person's argument by characterizing him or her in a negative light. No one has done the same to you, you've been treated respectfully throughout this entire discussion.

So now I really am done here. Not kidding this time.

Unless I just can't resist replying to something else funny that gets posted.

 

[WinniWoman]

Lol, I'm not obsessive compulsive. I just happen to have found something I enjoy. Like you enjoy your pasta night. Just because you don't understand it or can't relate to it does not make it psychologically unhealthy. I honestly can't relate to the pasta attachment, but to each his/her own.

And really? You think I don't have a life going on outside of cycling? Hmm, I wonder what you imagine you actually know about me- my career, my other interests, my relationships, etc? Laughable since I already mentioned that I ride 8-10 hours a week. Hmm, I wonder what ever I do with myself the rest of the week. It's completely empty...

No need to feel defensive because someone disagrees with you. You don't need to try to undermine the other person's argument by characterizing him or her in a negative light. No one has done the same to you, you've been treated respectfully throughout this entire discussion.

So now I really am done here. Not kidding this time.

Unless I just can't resist replying to something else funny that gets posted. [/QUOTE

Wow! You really overthought my post! I apologize that you took offense. Not being defensive. Never said it was psychologically unhealthy or criticizing you! Just sayin' most people are not going to be doing something like that day in and day out. I actually admire you for having that kind of discipline and stamina because I am one of the disciplined myself! I am actually the OCD one. Pretty much never miss a day of exercising, though it has happened. Wake up 4 am to do it for the past 20 years. As part of my exercise routine- when I am out walking I clean up the road of litter every day. Then I have to get ready for work which also involves a commute, driving, and in and out of the car 20 times per day and often times carrying and lifting things. I am 60 years old. I spend weekends doing work around my house (which I happen to like). I just spent the past week and a half catching up on spring cleaning BEFORE going to work as well. You could argue - and people tell me all the time- that I am crazy to be working on and cleaning my house for hours every Saturday- my day off- but I enjoy it and it keeps me moving. I eat the same oatmeal and greek yogurt breakfast and salad lunch every day. People think I am nuts. They get takeout and either don't exercise or don't exercise religiously and some are thin. I spend every Sunday pre-cooking our meals for the week as well. I have a pretty boring, regimented life in that regard, but it gives me the sense of order I need. My schedule allows me a little free time to read or watch a TV program and that is about it. Until our timeshare vacations (where I also make sure to exercise each day)! LOL!

As I age I know I will not be able to keep this up especially considering I have to work into my mid to late 60's. My thin her whole life 80 year old friend who never exercised a day in her life tells me I am crazy and won't be able to keep it up.

Put my pasta and other food on a salad plate. Have a routine I follow every day. Put pressure on myself to follow it. Still overweight. My point was exercise does not help you lose weight or keep it off-only to a small degree. I am living proof. But it is healthy for you.

I agree that anything worth doing is usually hard. But it doesn't always result in success either and many times it is not the individual's fault.

Exactly- everyone is different. To each his own, but it is not realistic to think most people are going to be able to do this for a multitude of reasons- or necessarily get the perfect weight results they want from diet and exercise-it is just too complicated.

PS I like bike riding myself (not racing or steep hills, though). I usually rent a bike when we are away if there is a decent bike path. (Don't like riding on roads due to cars. So I understand why you enjoy it so much.)

 

[heathpack]

Never said it was psychologically unhealthy or criticizing you!

Well, I'm glad you did not mean to be disparaging. But characterizing me as obsessive compulsive, which is a psychiatric illness, certainly is an unfair way to attempt to undermine my position.

As far as being "old": my Nemesis in the local racing scene is 55 years old. The woman who took third place Sat by 40 seconds over me is 65 years old. She set her world record and won her national championship last year. We all work full time, have busy lives, and commute. I am actually more friends with the 64 year old's husband than I am with her. He is 67 and also raced on Sat. These two are trying to talk me into taking up track cycling because the 2017 and 2018 Track World Championships are going to be in LA then. They are planning on racing. He'll be 70 for the 2018 Worlds. These guys are 15 years older than me and still faster. It ain't over until its over.

My coach is 55 years old and weighs 160 pounds, trim and muscular guy. He was over 200 pounds when he decided at 40 that he needed to make a change in his life and he took up cycling and lost 40 pounds. By the time he was 45 years old, he was nationally competitive.

I'm friends with another athlete who works with my coach. She took up running and then triathalon in her early 50s after having been 200 pounds most of her adult life. Now she is 65 years old and 135 pounds. She moved into cycling completely about 5 years ago. Active racer. And she works full time too.

I walked as my initial form of exercise and I was able to lose weight doing that. But eventually, I decided to mix it up, just to keep things interesting. I started to go to the gym- swim, yoga, elliptical. And I bought a bike. I pretty quickly figured out that "exercise" is not "exercise". I was open to doing whatever it might take to maintain my weight loss or possibly lose a little more. So I learned a lot about training and exercise physiology. It was a little easier for me to understand all of this, since I'm a veterinarian and have a very strong background in physiology and nutrition.

But the more I learned, the more I have come to understand how exercise is the key to managing weight. Which is why it is hard for me to let it go when people say exercise does not work.

Its ok if you say: the kind of exercise that does work is not something most people would embrace. Ok, that may be true, but you don't need to embrace it fully to start. I took the attitude that I would be open to it and I discovered a couch potato who really *likes* the exercise. So maybe encouraging people to explore what they can do and to learn about the way exercise *does* work is better advice to people than telling them repeatedly: dieting doesn't work, exercise doesn't work and its not really that bad to be overweight, so just enjoy life. Your assumption is that I'm wrong and just focusing on my own personal experience because "science" has proven me wrong. I have the educational background to actually read the articles and "science" has not proven that exercise does not work. There is plenty of better science out there supporting my position.

This is what I mean when I say People want what they want- they want it to take the kind of exercise they think they should have to do without being willing to look beyond that. Honestly most of the studies being embraced here by the folks who believe weight loss is impossible/virtually impossible are being embraced because it makes them feel better themselves about not having been able to lose weight or keep it off. That's ok, people need to manage their own heads and if you need to believe this as in individual, fine. But to try to discourage others from finding better solutions is just doing people a real disservice IMO.

 

["Roger"]

Here is a report on one study that supports heathpack's contentions. As the article fully admits, it is only an animal study, but what the study (putting most of its emphasis on further weight gain) suggests is

... beneath the skin, runners and the dieters looked very unalike. By almost all measures, the runners were metabolically healthier, with better insulin sensitivity and lower levels of bad cholesterol than the dieters. They also burned more fat each day for fuel, according to their metabolic readings, and had more cellular markers related to metabolic activity within their brown fat than the dieting group. Brown fat, unlike the white variety, can be quite metabolically active, helping the body to burn additional calories...​

and

...So better to avoid weight gain in the first place, if possible. And in that context, she said, “restricting calories can be effective,” but exercise is likely to be more potent in the long term...​

I might (again) add that there are more benefits to exercise than just weight control. Lots of studies support that exercise helps forestall mental deterioration in old age.

As far as the here and now, you can just do more things. While I am no where near in the same class as heathpack, last year I was on a tour of Tuscany. One of the highlights for me was an optional walk between some of the towns in Cinque Terre. Half the tour group took a pass in that it was going to be too strenuous for them. Of those that did go, I kept pace with a pair of thirty year old bikers (I was sixty-nine at the time) and felt just fine at the end. Others in the group admitted that they were totally exhausted for the last half or third of the hike. Heathpack is living the dream right now; I wouldn't have given up my experience on the hike for anything.

 

[WinniWoman]

I definitely would never discourage people to exercise (or eat healthy and count calories). I believe in it. I do various types of exercises. My gazelle, my indoor fan cycle, my weight bench, walking. Used to have a treadmill- but got rid of it because of space limitations.

I have jogged; I do yoga; I walk backwards up steep hills for balance and to work other muscle groups. I hike, though in a more limited manner now due to not wanting to stress my knees. I will bike outside when I have the opportunity. I like kayaking/canoeing. I absolutely love to swim-(wish I had a pool) - more like wading- but I love to move around in water. Always take part in an aqua aerobics class when I am on vacation.

I am just saying people have to have realistic expectations for themselves. Do things they enjoy and yes- step outside the box once in a while to discover something new and beneficial.

One thing I personally don't like is sports- things like tennis, racing, etc. When I only walked for exercise I didn't lose weight. But when I added in another half hour of indoor cycling or the gazelle or treadmill, plus the isometric exercises with hand weights, my weight came off. But- like I said- not over time. The weight came back even though I still do everything.

PS- It was me I was referring to as obsessive. I think most people who exercise every single day to a fault are somewhat compulsive and it's a good thing. As are people who are competitive with themselves or others. Nothing wrong with it. It's not crazy (although others might think so) . I used the term obsessive compulsive loosely- meant no harm. It's my humor. But not your average person.

PPSS- Roger- I would have loved to do that walk in Cinque Terra. On my bucket list to go there.

Also I agree- if you only had a choice to diet or exercise- but not both- exercise wins out. Both is best for weight loss.

 

[heathpack]

Heathpack is living the dream right now; I wouldn't have given up my experience on the hike for anything.

I totally agree. The people I have met cycling are amongst the best people I've known in all the things I've done in a pretty interesting life. I'm just very lucky to be able to do it at all. I'm really grateful for it and all the people who have helped me along the way. I'm also grateful for the change in perspective that I've had as I've gone through the training process, because when its not all about weight loss, you start to see it much differently and the weight aspect just becomes one little piece of the puzzle and not that big of a deal.

The blog article that you linked to is hinting at what I'm getting at. There are well-known methods of increasing metabolism with exercise and of manipulating the fuels that your body burns. As your body's metabolism slows with age and loss of muscle mass, you can keep ahead of that curve by exercising smart (but it is an evolving thing for sure, you do have to keep ahead of it because your body is simultaneously changing continuously).

Calorie restriction lowers metabolic rate, and the more you restrict calories, the worse it gets. Most studies severely restrict calories in order to see significant weight loss during the timeframe of their study. To make things worse, when you severely restrict calories you usually also restrict protein which translates into also losing muscle mass. Which is the last thing you want to do, because muscle is metabolically active and burns calories continuously. Now you're in a double whammy situation. But this is the norm for studies on weight loss.

Athletes look at things differently. When I told my coach last Oct that I was going to try to knock off 15-20 pounds, his response was "let's see how it goes". If I started to lose power on the bike, we'd have halted the process. I basically have to be very meticulous about not restricting calories too much, getting enough protein, getting the protein at the right time relative to the workout, getting adequate carbs, taking sufficient days off from training to recover (no I don't work out every day) and having the optimized variation in workout intensity to have a positive training effect (which means building muscle and aerobic conditioning). In reality, organizing all of this is pretty straightforward, its not a complex thing to do on a day-to-day basis. But you do have to get all the details right or you can't expect to be successful. You read a lot of these "exercise" studies from the perspective of an athlete and you want to scream 'No no no! Don't do that! That is going to be a disaster.'

Anyway, I'm just fortunate. I like what I'm doing and just grateful for whatever phase of my life that I'm able to keep doing it.

 

[elaine]

I think some people are genetically lucky--good blood and thin by nature . Others not so lucky and some have very unlucky genetics.
I am in the middle, pushing to the unlucky side at 50+ and realized 6 mths ago that I could continue to be overweight (up 40 lbs in 25 years) or do something about it. My cholesterol was up and I (IMHO) was a candidate for Metabolic syndrome.
Dr. told me 5 years ago (when I was 10 lbs lighter) to lose at least 10 lbs by cutting out almost everything white (pasta, potato, rice, bread) and eat more veggies, with limited fruits, more fish, less meat, moderate portions. Add 1-2 servings of nuts and good fats. Be as active as possible, meaning up my activity, even an extra 10 minutes a day.
When I actually committed to it 6 mths ago, I lost 7 lbs in 3 weeks doing the above, then slacked off somewhat, but maintained that new weight, and now haven been a bit more rigorous, lost another 5 lbs. My bad cholesteral has dropped almost 10%.
I added walking up the stairs during the day as a break from work, and an exercise band for arms for a few minutes with my office door closed. It's not a diet, but a permanent lifestyle changes--I eat carbs, but really think about the consequences of what goes into my mouth. I don't deny myself, but stop at 5 bites of something "bad." I also eat an avocado a week. The good fats make you feel full and keep the carb cravings down. I'm less sleepy/lethargic and generally feel pretty good, esp. in the afternoon at my desk job. Walking 4 flights of stairs and then having 1/2 a mini candybar and decaf gives me the same pick up as caffeine + more carbs and calories used to. I definitely feel different, so I tend to agree that sittting might be the new smoking.
Not saying it's the silver bullet, and I know others here have medical issues that would prevernt them from doing the above, but I wanted to share b/c I wish I had done this 5 years ago--and it was just a few easy switches/fixes and really thinking before I ate something white. And, DH's Dr. essentially told him the same thing to ward off diabetes.

 

[WinniWoman]

Here's a link for heathpack

https://www.good.is/articles/100-year-old-runner-record

 

[Tia]

Here's a link for heathpack

https://www.good.is/articles/100-year-old-runner-record

good for her!!

 

[bogey21]

With some it is genetics. With others, bad eating habits. I must be in the latter category. High School weight (1953) was 155 pounds. A year and a half ago I weighed in at 200 pounds. Today I am back to 155. My weight reduction came entirely from cutting out high calorie foods like ice cream, deserts, alcohol, french fries,etc. Exercise was not part of it. All I do is walk my dog 3 times a day, climb stairs rather than using elevators, and park as far away from the door at Walmart, Kroger, etc. as possible. I feel the frustration of those for whom this amount of simplicity doesn't work.

George