he now has to eat 800 calories a day less than a typical man his size

[heathpack]

@judys, I am truly sorry for your weight and health issues. I understand you not wanting to be made to feel like its your fault.

I guess I just think that giving people the message that it impossible to manage weight seems:
1. Defeatist and counterproductive
2. Inconsistent with logic, since through most of human history, being obese was rare and there has been insufficient time since the start of the obesity epidemic for humans to have evolved into a scenario in which 30% of us are destined to be obese

Being interested in learning who is successful in managing weight & why is not the same thing as telling you that your medical conditions are your fault. If someone else here shares their success in managing weight, it does not imply a criticism of you or anyone who has been unsuccessful.

When I set out to try to lose weight, I read everything that I could on the subject. Some of it was bogus, some of it made sense but did not pertain to me and some of it was stuff I could apply to myself.

The one thing that I never found too helpful however was reading all the articles about why I was destined to never be able to manage my weight. In some ways these articles are helpful because they give you a realistic sense of what you're up against. But they can go too far in making people who already feel a little powerless feel pretty hopeless.

So I'm not suggesting a "pie in the sky" unrealistic approach. Just a focus on the message that "it will be tough, but here's the best things to try".

Hope you feel better and that your book & timeshare business are both successful.

 

[WinniWoman]

I think people are too obsessive about it. If you are overweight, but healthy and feel good, and you eat fairly well and exercise, just live your life and be happy.

My grandparents were both overweight and lived into their 80s- my grandfather being an alcoholic. I am certainly not advocating that, of course.

But- no way would I ever give up my wine on Saturdays or my pasta on Sundays - though I use the whole grain kind mostly now. Nor will I give up my occasional ice cream (low fat/low sugar) or dark chocolate.

And I am not going to spend more than 5-7 hours per week formally exercising when there are so many things to do and experience and limited time to do them. Sleep is important also.

Like I said- lots of people are thin and healthy and never exercise formally. And many of them eat whatever they want.

Life is to be enjoyed- everything in moderation.

 

[heathpack]

And I am not going to spend more than 5-7 hours per week formally exercising when there are so many things to do and experience and limited time to do them. Sleep is important also...

Life is to be enjoyed- everything in moderation.

You know what I really like? Sleep and coffee and riding my bikes. I frequently ride at 4:30am in order to accommodate my work schedule. Sometimes when I go to bed at night, I'm totally happy because I know the next three things that are going to happen are: sleep, coffee, bike ride.

There is no one happier than me on a bike. Very lucky there. But if you told me square dancing was the secret to a long life, sorry I'd choose to die young! Life is indeed too short, we should all just savor whatever it is we like to do.

 

[JudyS]

@judys, I am truly sorry for your weight and health issues. I understand you not wanting to be made to feel like its your fault.

I guess I just think that giving people the message that it impossible to manage weight seems:
1. Defeatist and counterproductive
2. Inconsistent with logic, since through most of human history, being obese was rare and there has been insufficient time since the start of the obesity epidemic for humans to have evolved into a scenario in which 30% of us are destined to be obese....

Heathpack, thank you for your kind words about my health and my attempts to make money.

Now, let me address your two points.

"I guess I just think that giving people the message that it impossible to manage weight seems: 1. Defeatist and counterproductive"

For most people, dieting is what's counterproductive. (I will address defeatism in its own post.) Not only do most people gain back all the weight, but (based on what little evidence we have on the long-term effects of dieting) even the few who keep off some weight are no healthier in the long run.

There are also concerns, and some evidence, that dieting tends to make people fatter in the long run. The theory is, each time a person loses much weight through diet (and/or exercise), their hypothalamus believes there is a famine. And if there's a famine, what's the safest thing to do in the long run? Store more fat to protect against the next famine.

I think it's far better to focus on health, not weight. Eat a healthy diet. (It would help if nutritionists could make up their minds about what is healthy, but we know broccoli is good, at least for adults, and pork rinds are bad.) Exercise is also very important.

However, eating healthy foods (as opposed to counting calories and being hungry) doesn't seem to have any real impact on weight. Exercise doesn't seem to affect weight much, either. In fact, I don't see why people expect exercise to cause weight loss. Sure, calories are burned during exercise, but exercise makes the cardiovascular system more efficient, which means it burns fewer calories, not more, during rest,

And of course, there are lots of healthy things that have nothing to do with diet and exercise. Get recommended colonoscopies, take medicine if prescribed, drive carefully, don't drink excessively (and certainly not if you're driving.) But many people (I'm not referring to you, I mean other people) don't really care about being healthy -- they care about being thin. There are people who won't take their medicine because it makes them gain weight. and, are plenty of people, especially women, who smoke to lose weight.

" giving people the message that it impossible to manage weight seems:
2. Inconsistent with logic, since through most of human history, being obese was rare and there has been insufficient time since the start of the obesity epidemic for humans to have evolved into a scenario in which 30% of us are destined to be obese....

I actually think it's the pro-dieting side that makes logical errors. In my book, I talk about this quite a lot. But, let me just address your point.

Yes, people were a lot thinner in the past. They were also stunted physically and perhaps intellectually. They were shorter and their heads and brains were quite small, compared to Americans today, and they did much worse on IQ tests (which were administered starting about 100 years ago.) They suffered from severe nutritional deficiencies, such as pellagra, that were sometimes fatal. Mostly, though, they died in droves from tuberculosis because their bodies were too weakened by hunger to fight the disease off. There is still no effective vaccine against TB, and about 30% of the world's population is infected with it. But, the vast majority of these people have few or no symptoms because they eat enough to keep their immune systems strong.

This wasn't the distant past, either. Pellagra was a huge problem in the 1920s. People starved during the Great Depression. There were food shortages during World War II.

It is true that, compared to today, people were leaner even in the 1950s and 1960s, when food was widely available. But some of this leanness was due to the fact that most people smoked. Children were exposed to smoke in the womb and secondhand in their homes.

So, yes, people are heavier in the past, but there was no "golden age" when people were both lean and healthy. Many people's bodies seem to prioritize surviving famines over other factors, such as avoiding Type 2 diabetes. (From an evolutionary standpoint, this makes sense, because starvation can kill at any age, whereas Type 2 diabetes doesn't kill people until they are at least middle-aged, after they have passed on their genes.) Such people probably have a choice between being malnourished and being fat.

I will also point out that much of the increase in obesity is because people are living longer, and older people weigh more than younger people. It's quite ironic -- the pro-diet faction says being fat kills, yet people are both fatter and living longer than ever before.

(The increase in childhood obesity is a complex issue. Children are maturing more quickly than in the past, and this means their BMI rises more quickly as they get older. Current government statistics interpret all of this rise in BMI as increased fat, even though evidence shows that it is mostly increased bone and muscle.)

As for the increase in extreme obesity, this has happened at the same time as dramatic increases in many other illnesses involving the body's information systems. Fatal peanut allergies, multiple sclerosis, bipolar disorder, infertility, genital malformations in baby boys -- all of these diseases, and many more, are up dramatically, even though there's been no time for genetic changes to evolve. Something in modern life is messing up the body's information systems, including the weight regulation system, but we have no idea what it is.

 

[WinniWoman]

You know what I really like? Sleep and coffee and riding my bikes. I frequently ride at 4:30am in order to accommodate my work schedule. Sometimes when I go to bed at night, I'm totally happy because I know the next three things that are going to happen are: sleep, coffee, bike ride.

There is no one happier than me on a bike. Very lucky there. But if you told me square dancing was the secret to a long life, sorry I'd choose to die young! Life is indeed too short, we should all just savor whatever it is we like to do.

\

LOL! I get up at 4am also - though I usually start my exercise routine at 6am. I love now that the weather gets warm and it is light out and I can add walking.

I love riding a bike- but our rural roads here don't have bike lanes and cars drive like speed demons on them, so I would be afraid to do that. I actually got rid of my bike- hence the indoor cycle. But I always rent a bike when I am in Vermont to ride the paved bike paths.

 

[WinniWoman]

What JudyS just said above- absolutely correct.

I might add again that I believe people are becoming obsessed with thinness and associate it with health, which just isn't true.

I see it at my job- the younger women- all they ever do is obsess about food- what they are eating for lunch- some of it "bad" like pizza, etc. What they are picking up or making for dinner. It's like they have never eaten before. I honestly think they starve themselves and then they cave and pick up the Chinese food. Most of them- not all- are slender.

Then they talk about their latest exercise class or whatever and then they talk about fitting into their clothes and so on. I never hear any of them talk about the community, the state of the world, books they maybe read, opinions on various subject matter, maybe something they are creating- a project- , plans for their future, whatever. There are some exceptions, of course.

No- day in and day out it is how many steps they took with those thing- a -ma- jigs attached to their shoes counting steps. What they are getting for lunch, what they are going to eat next Friday, all the intricacies on what each exercise is doing for them.

None of this is bad- but there is more to life than trying and imagining we can control EVERYTHING about our health. I am health conscious for sure, but there comes a point where it just becomes too obsessive for some people.

My brother just lost 65 lbs and looks skeletal to me. He recently fell and cracked a rib. His doc told him because there was no meat on him it was a bad one! LOL! I thought the same thing. He is 58 years old and has a stressful job with a of of travelling. Then he gets home on wknds and goes to the gym for spinning class. He says he is always tired. I told him he might be wearing out his heart more than necessary.Maybe he needs more moderate exercise with his schedule. He is on a low carb diet. He is trying desperately to keep the weight off forever. Between work and the gym he has limited time for anything else pleasurable. He hasn't given up alcohol yet- so that's good! Ha! Ha!

 

[JudyS]

OK, now let me address the "defeatism" issue -- the idea that it is defeatist to tell people that dieting almost never works long-term.

I think people should be told what is true. And, the evidence is overwhelming that few people keep off substantial amounts of weight through dieting and exercise.

Medicine is supposed to be based on evidence. Dieting is not evidence-based. There was a time when physicians mostly treated people with bleeding. If you told them that bleeding didn't work, perhaps they would have objected on the grounds that this was defeatist (or whatever the 18th century equivalent of "defeatist" was.) But these days, the standard is that health advice should be based on what actually works.

Patients are also entitled to informed consent. Some doctors admit that they tell patients dieting works, even though the doctors know it almost never does. Such doctors say they do it because dieting is the best tool we have for obesity (they are wrong; bariatric surgery is), and they want patients to try to lose weight through dieting even if it generally doesn't work. This sort of deliberate misinformation (or to put it bluntly, lying) goes against modern medical ethics and denies patients their right to informed consent.

In general, I think our society pressures people to do health interventions that are not worthwhile. After I had been trying to get pregnant for nine years, I told my family I was discontinuing all fertility treatments. Instead of sympathizing with me and trying to help me with my grief, they gave me a very hard time, telling me I was "giving up too soon." (To keep trying, I would have had to get fertility drugs on the black market -- my doctors said it wasn't safe to give me any more.) Nearly 15 years later, this still burns me up.

And, it's not just fat people who get pressured. Cancer patients who are really suffering and want to end chemo are made to feel like quitters, even if there is no realistic chance that the chemo will save them.

As for your successful weight loss, I hope I can ask some questions. How much have you lost, and how long have you kept it off? A few people do lose weight and keep it off, but it's almost never more than 40 pounds. Some of the people on Biggest Loser weighed over 400 pounds. A 40 pounds loss isn't going to bring them anywhere near a normal weight.

What I also want to know, though, is what the h*ll the world wants from me. Even when I ate so little that I was cold all the time and woke up in the middle of the night from hunger, I was still being told that I was too fat and had to do better. Even when I started to get infections from not eating enough, I was told I was too fat and needed to lose more weight. Lose more weight how????

Remember how I said my family was outdoorsy and were health food fanatics and that my sister was lean? Well, all of this was true, but I left out how furious my father was at me for being fat. And when my father got furious, he got violent. So, I would get beaten with a belt for not "trying hard enough" to lose weight. This happened even though my father controlled everything I ate (and it was very healthy) and made sure I did a lot of exercise. This was, of course, in addition to being called "fatso" everyday and getting regularly beaten up on the playground for being fat. You say people should not accept "the message that it impossible to manage weight." But, that is what happens to fat children when people refuse to accept it.

 

[heathpack]

judyS, so the premises of your book are going to be:

1. Its a normal human state to be obese, the historical low rates of obesity were simply a result of malnutrition, concurrent illnesses or smoking?
2. People can't control their weight, they are fated to be whatever weight their genes determine they'll be?
3. Exercise does not help because it just makes you more metabolically efficient?

Ok... I'll probably pass on reading that one. Sorry, it just does not jive with reality as I've experienced it, nor does it seem like a set of premises that I'd have any interest in buying into, even if they were true.

 

[bogey21]

....The increase in childhood obesity is a complex issue. Children are maturing more quickly than in the past, and this means their BMI rises more quickly as they get older. Current government statistics interpret all of this rise in BMI as increased fat, even though evidence shows that it is mostly increased bone and muscle....

I don't think it is complex at all. When I was a kid we had PhysEd every day in school; at lunchtime we had almost an hour outside for play ground time; and in the Summer my Mother used to turn me out at 9 or 10 am with instructions "be home by dark". Now kids are inside; glued to TV, computers or smart phones. I guarantee you that very few of us were overweight.

George

 

[heathpack]

Judy, you sound like you had a terrible childhood, sorry to hear about that.

As to my weight issues: I am completely non-vain. I did not lose weight because I cared about clothes or what other people thought. My doctor told me to lose weight because he felt like I was healthy but sure to develop the negative consequences of being overweight inevitably- his quote was that I was the poster child for developing metabolic syndrome.

I was overweight my entire life, my mother is obese and has a pathologic relationship with food. Kids teased me and I felt self-conscious about my weight but it was never a huge issue, my personality is such that I don't care too much what other people think.

When my doctor told me to lose weight I had a BMI that was pushing 30 and just getting close to the obese classification. I lost 30 pounds over the first 2 years and have kept that off for 3 years beyond that- so a total of 5 years. After the initial 30 pound loss, I have slowly lost another 20 pounds over the subsequent 3 years. So now I am sitting on a total 50 pound weight loss over 5 years, with 30 pounds of that loss being maintained for 3 years, another 5 pounds of it being maintained for 2 years and I have just spend 8 months losing the remaining 15 pounds. For cycling purposes, I'd like to lose another 10 pounds, but again this is not a vanity thing or even a health thing. I am actually considering trying to set a world record in a specific cycling distance and to do that, I'd be better off losing another 10 pounds. We'll see, though.

Over time it has gotten way easier for me to lose weight and maintain weight loss. I am not hungry all the time, although I do some very specific things to manage hunger. I like what I eat. I love to ride my bike. I don't just burn calories on my bike- I do some very intense workouts and I spend a lot of time riding at my anaerobic threshold. I also socialize on the bike and generally enjoy myself, both on and off the bike.

Do I think I've got the weight thing licked? No way. For me the exercise is key and without that I might very well gain the weight back. I know it could happen and I'm vigilant about it. It might be out of my control, who knows? Only time will tell.

When I go see my doctor every year, I get 5 gold stars. Because my health really has improved in conjunction with the weight loss.

 

[WinniWoman]

I think that people should eat as "healthy" as possible in moderation and exercise each day for about a half hour to an hour and then go on and do things they enjoy and take care of their other responsibilities. They should use common sense and make sure they get annual doctor check-ups and blood work and screenings.

Allow some treats along the way and that's all.


People can certainly lose weight and can certainly keep some of it off. Other exceptional people maybe can keep it all off. But as you age- for many people various other things are going to affect the weight and health. Everyone ages differently as well.

PS I relate to what JudyS is saying, When I was very thin after my initial weight loss- and I kept it off for years- I was also always cold and always hungry. I would be lying if I said otherwise. But I was able to tolerate that as my new normal. But I was very conscious of it. My immune system was excellent, however, as I took a million vitamins. My thin coworker is the same. And- she can't wait to eat lunch each day as she is starving. I was like that as well.

 

[WinniWoman]

I don't think it is complex at all. When I was a kid we had PhysEd every day in school; at lunchtime we had almost an hour outside for play ground time; and in the Summer my Mother used to turn me out at 9 or 10 am with instructions "be home by dark". Now kids are inside; glued to TV, computers or smart phones. I guarantee you that very few of us were overweight.

George

I was. I am 60 now.

 

[Kel]

I looked on the CDC.gov site and it says that 34.9 % of adults and 17 % of youth are obese. Not just overweight, but obese. That doesn’t include the overweight people. I looked at a BMI calculator and I could gain 45 lbs. and still be in the overweight category. That would feel like obese to me. Check it out.

 

[Mosca]

After I had a heart attack at age 37, I lost 85 lbs. I then gained it back, and a little more, a pound or two a month over the next four years.

I've yoyo'd my whole life. I was athletic in high school, gained weight after graduating, lost it, gained it back, and then for the next 15 years I would lose 15, gain 18, lose 25, gain 30, like that until the heart attack.

Now I don't pay it any attention. I'm a big guy, but I take all my statins and blood pressure pills and such. But I don't want to gain more so I don't lose any. Because every time I lose it I gain more. I should have just stayed off the first "diet".

And come to think of it, everyone I know who had dieted, even those who have had barbaric surgery, they've all gained it back, plus a little more.

 

[JudyS]

judyS, so the premises of your book are going to be:

1. Its a normal human state to be obese, the historical low rates of obesity were simply a result of malnutrition, concurrent illnesses or smoking?
2. People can't control their weight, they are fated to be whatever weight their genes determine they'll be?
3. Exercise does not help because it just makes you more metabolically efficient?

Ok... I'll probably pass on reading that one. Sorry, it just does not jive with reality as I've experienced it, nor does it seem like a set of premises that I'd have any interest in buying into, even if they were true.

Actually, my main premise is going to be that dieting is usually a bad idea in the wrong run. But, in regards to your three main points, what I am going to say is:
1) Some people have become very obese due to unknown factors in modern life. These factors also seem to be causing many other illnesses. We need to find out what these factors are and fix them.
2) Differences in weight are almost completely biological (which is not the same as genetic.) People need real medical treatment (meaning surgery or drugs) if they are going to lose weight and keep it off. Until recently, hardly anyone was even looking for these treatments. Now, we are starting to find them.
3) Exercise is great for people's health. Numerous studies show that it has almost no effect on most people's weight, however.

If I may sum up your premise, it seems to be, "I have lost substantial weight through dieting and exercise, and kept it off for several years. Therefore, anyone can become lean and stay that way for the rest of their lives." But, even if you do in fact stay lean for the rest of your life, there are people who weigh hundreds of pounds more than you. What you did won't necessarily work for them. And, other people do not necessarily have the same physiology that you do. (And in fact, almost anyone with a realistic chance of setting a world record in any sport has unusual physiology.) Also, other people may have less room for improvement in their lifestyle than you did before you lost weight.

Your weight loss is impressive, but a fair number of people keep off 30 pounds for a number of years, and some keep off much more for about two years. What almost never seems to happen is keeping off more than forty pounds for five years or more. The fact that you aren't hungry is very encouraging, because most people in your situation are famished, no matter what they do to try to control their hunger. So, maybe you will be one of the very rare few who keep off more than 40 pounds for more than five years.

By the way, I didn't think physical vanity was why you wanted to lose weight. It's certainly a huge reason for many people, though.

I would be interested in knowing the "very specific things" you do to control hunger. I am no longer dieting to lose weight, but I need to follow an eating plan that is very restrictive in salt and that keeps my blood sugar down. Even though I am not losing weight, I am often very hungry. I have tried all the usual suggestions -- eat lots of fiber, eat protein, drink water, stay out of the kitchen, don't keep junk food around, don't watch TV. I still sometimes have trouble sleeping because I am hungry. If there is anything else I can do, I'm interested in trying it.

I wouldn't expect you to buy my book. That's fine.

... nor does it seem like a set of premises that I'd have any interest in buying into, even if they were true.

Very interesting. So, you would refuse to believe what I am saying, no matter how much evidence I have, and no matter whether what I say is true or not. Can I quote you for my book?

 

[JudyS]

I don't think it is complex at all. When I was a kid we had PhysEd every day in school; at lunchtime we had almost an hour outside for play ground time; and in the Summer my Mother used to turn me out at 9 or 10 am with instructions "be home by dark". Now kids are inside; glued to TV, computers or smart phones. I guarantee you that very few of us were overweight.

George

George, you entirely missed my point. Most of the children classified as overweight, and many of the ones classified as obese, have perfectly normal body fat percentages. Children today put on muscle and bone at a faster rate than children in 1970, yet the government standards count that extra muscle and bone as fat. The government classifies children as overweight or obese by taking the children's BMI and comparing it to the BMI of children of the same age who lived around 1970. I said that method was complex. Do you truly believe that is a simple way of classifying people?

Furthermore, I already posted a link to a very well-done study showing that getting children to exercise more does not lead them to lose weight, even when the exercise is combined with healthier lunches and nutritional counseling for the parents and children. I can post links to research articles, but I can't make you read them.

 

[JudyS]

I looked on the CDC.gov site and it says that 34.9 % of adults and 17 % of youth are obese. Not just overweight, but obese. That doesn’t include the overweight people. I looked at a BMI calculator and I could gain 45 lbs. and still be in the overweight category. That would feel like obese to me. Check it out.

The government standards on obesity and overweight are completely arbitrary, and have been changed several times with no reason given. People in the "overweight" category are actually healthier than people in the "normal" category. This is true even when looking only at non-smokers.

When Michael Jackson died, not only was he in the "normal" category, he wasn't even at the lower edge of the "normal" category. He could have lost 15 pounds and still not have been considered "underweight" by the government's standards. Yet, he told others that he was too thin to dance well, and many people thought he was emaciated. You could see the ribs on his chest. That's what our government considers "normal."

 

[JudyS]

....
After losing 65 pounds and sticking with maintenance, weight still began to creep up. I was frantic and tried to eat less and exercise even more, but it was unrealistic as I needed the calories for my energy and activity level.

I am now back up at the original weight I was before the weight loss and have sworn off diets for the rest of my life...

After I had a heart attack at age 37, I lost 85 lbs. I then gained it back, and a little more, a pound or two a month over the next four years.

I've yoyo'd my whole life. I was athletic in high school, gained weight after graduating, lost it, gained it back, and then for the next 15 years I would lose 15, gain 18, lose 25, gain 30, like that until the heart attack.

Now I don't pay it any attention. I'm a big guy, but I take all my statins and blood pressure pills and such. But I don't want to gain more so I don't lose any. Because every time I lose it I gain more. I should have just stayed off the first "diet".

And come to think of it, everyone I know who had dieted, even those who have had barbaric surgery, they've all gained it back, plus a little more.

Barbaric surgery is a great name! I have a relative who lose weight and kept it off for about a decade through bariatric surgery. She is still morbidly obese, though-- the bariatric surgery took off maybe half the extra weight.

Thanks, Mpumilia and Mosca. My experience with dieting is very similar to yours.

We haven't heard from anyone on TUG who has lost, say, 60 pounds or more and kept it off for at least five years. If you are here, please post.

 

[WinniWoman]

I have a coworker who had surgery- I think it was the lap band? She never lost weight and in fact gained more weight. She commented to me "What was I thinking?" And she is now on some other crazy diet drinking something or another. and has lost 20 lbs. But I really don't hold out much hope for her, but wish her well.

Also- I, too, have read that exercise is great for your health but only has a small role in weight loss. This is know because lots of thin people I know do not exercise at all. Plus, if you look at the meters on exercise equipment- if you are exercising moderately maybe after an hour you might have lost 300 calories or so if you're lucky. LOL!

I once tried that interval exercise routine where you speed up for a few minutes and then slow down during a 25 minute routine (for me it was the cycling). I found that I became more exhausted by the end of the week. I decided to stop as I was dreading doing it. And I was also worried that I was putting too much pressure on my heart.

Life is hard enough. Didn't need to torture myself every day. Have enough of that just going to work.:rofl:

 

[vacationhopeful]

.... I created this diet

The : NO FOOD FROM GAS STATIONS DIET

....

Great diet ... and easy to follow. AND I really laughed when I read that ... there are some places that have NO FOOD you NEED for maintaining your GOOD HEALTH.

I bet other TUGGERs could offer slightly different versions like, "No food delivered to the house" or the "don't eat after dark" or grocery shopping ONLY from my list or only enough food for 1 plastic bag, etc.

I have also used the "get a smaller refrigerator" tactic.

 

[ace2000]

We haven't heard from anyone on TUG who has lost, say, 60 pounds or more and kept it off for at least five years. If you are here, please post.

I don't qualify at the 60 pounds or more level, but I can say I've kept off at least 40 over the last five years. In the summer of 2011, I posted on TUG about a CHIP plan that I started, and I can tell you that program changed my life. I don't have time to post the details now, but through diet and exercise I've kept the weight completely off.

JudyS - if weight is all about "biological" factors, as you say, how do you account for the modern rise in obesity and obesity related diseases? You really can't, and all I've got to say is that if you come home and spend most of your time on the couch and eat your food out of crinkly bags, you're going to gain weight (I'm not talking to anyone personally here with this comment). You can't blame that on anything biological. The American diet has completely tilted to fast food and junk. I'm more inclined to believe that *might* be the explanation.

 

[heathpack]

If I may sum up your premise, it seems to be, "I have lost substantial weight through dieting and exercise, and kept it off for several years. Therefore, anyone can become lean and stay that way for the rest of their lives."

Nope. I never said any such thing, nor have I told anyone here that they should or could lose weight. All I've said is that telling people that managing their own weight in impossible is counterproductive. If you had told ME that and I had listened, you would have been doing me a disservice.

What do I do to manage hunger? Lots of things, its a little complicated. But one of the first things to realize is that the way in which I exercise is very uncommon. I'm not just noodling around my neighborhood for an hour on a bike. The kind of races I do are either very long and difficult (100+ miles with 10k ft elevation gain for example) or very intense (maximum effort for 1 hour, if I don't feel a little nauseous when I finish I know I could have gone harder). I work with a coach and every ride I do has a specific purpose, I am probably not just an outlier compared to your typical American in the volume of exercise I do, but I'm an outlier amongst even cyclists in the time I spend in workouts doing max and supramax efforts.

1. Fasted workouts. I do lots of intense work on the bike in a fasted state. This is to train my ability to oxidize fatty acids (which I have in an essentially limitless supply for cycling purposes in my fat stores). These fasted workouts create huge hunger, which I personally believe relates to glycogen depletion. To enhance recovery (ie set me up for tomorrow's workout), I consume a recovery drink immediately post-workout, which contains carb (to replace glycogen) and protein (to build muscle). I've already addressed how the carb helps, but the protein digestion takes as long as two hours which helps with satiety too. So I frequently get up at 4am, immediately burn 1000 cal, consume 325 cal in the form of a recovery drink, then feel no hunger until 9am or so.
2. Fat oxidation. Because of the fasted workouts, I'm more able to ride long distances on minimal calories. This is a strategic thing to improve race performance in endurance events (because you cannot absorb/digest calories without diverting blood flow to your gut which compromises blood flow to muscles and decreases performance, so the less I need to eat, the better). Burning more fat on a 3-4 hour ride, delays glycogen depletion, which in turn delays/avoids hunger. I can routinely go out and create a 1500 cal deficit on a ride. Huge for me, since that's my daily calorie allotment.
3. I eat lots of high volume foods- soup every day, huge salads (my lunch prep looks like you're feeding a manatee), fruits, lots of veg, etc.
4. I don't let hunger go too long, my body will panic. When I feel hungry, I let it ride for a bit but eat within 30-60 min. Because I am limiting total cal/day, this means I eat multiple small meals throughout the day.
5. I try to limit engineered or processed foods. Some of these foods are designed to drive cravings. So eating Cheetos for example is rare. There is also the possibility that processed foods contain more available calories- either because you absorb more calories due to lack of fiber or because they require less calories to digest. Not sure if this helps but generally I avoid foods that contain "ingredients" and try to emphasize foods that ARE ingredients- ie whole foods.
6. Because I am cognizant of trying to limit calories while maximizing athletic performance, I am constantly looking to make sure that I am eating the most nutritious foods possible. I think this helps to manage your head a bit- I see a spinach salad with sunflower seeds and I thing "Mmm, a nice dose of Vit E" vs "Ugh, I wish I was starting my meal with nachos". Not that I won't eat nachos, just that I don't feel deprived by the spinach salad, I feel like I need that salad. Also I find a lot of this nutritious food pretty appealing, which adds to the sense of not feeling deprived which in turn can lead to "hunger."
7. Sleep. I need it for the training but when I sleep poorly, I'm hungrier for sure.
8. Happiness. I do what I like. I have tons of cycling friends. I love my coach, we have become personal friends, and I'm very grateful to all the people (my mechanic, my fitter, my spouse) who work with me to make my cycling better. My cycling life is populated by a cast of very supportive people, its kind of amazing. I have a stressful job, so this helps manage that. I also get a huge endorphin rush from the high intensity workouts, puts me in a great mood for the rest of the day. When I am in a bad mood, I feel more "hungry"- which is probably not true hunger but more a tendency to eat out of frustration or feeling upset.

I think that when studies look at "exercise" and say it doesn't work, there is the implication that "exercise" is just a single thing. There's a huge spectrum to exercise and figuring out the exact combo of things that work for an individual- volume/intensity/type of exercise, calorie restriction, lifestyle, attitude- are going to vary hugely. If you look at only one factor and conclude that it fails for most people, I guess that makes sense to me. Because I think probably most people need some combo of things to make it work.

 

[heathpack]

Oh yeah, and protein. I eat a good amt of protein to build muscle. Protein is satiating and maybe has a little more thermic effect to metabolize (ie it takes a little more energy to digest protein).

I eat 25% daily calories from protein, 25% from fat and 50% from carb. So its not a hugely weird diet by any means. But protein helps with hunger for me, no doubt.

 

["Roger"]

Okay, here goes nothing... I freely admit that I could be wrong about everything that follows, but one thought pattern.

Why the obesity epidemic? While probably not due to any single cause, a major factor is the modern day production of corn fructose syrup which has made sugar cheap. Easy access to more calories.

Most weight reduction is the result of the shrinking of fat cells, not their disappearance. Thus, like Freddie of Elm Street, guess what comes back. (The fat cells are still there and can unshrink.)

A discouraging report from 2008 is that Swedish researchers found that the body replaces about 10% of one's fat cells every year. At first that sounds like good news in that maybe one can just not replace them by dieting, but there appears to be some body mechanism that keeps the number of fat cells at a given level (and that even includes having fat cells removed by surgery).

An increasing number of infants (children under the age of two) are being reported as overweight. (Corn fructose sugar?) They will probably be fighting weight problems their entire life.

More bad news. While it appears hard, if not impossible, to lower the number of fat cells (you can only shrink them), you can increase the number of fat cells in your body and that new higher number will probably be maintained. So, it is possible for school children eating more sugar and having a more sedentary life style (see George's post) to add to the percentage of people who will be fighting to control their weight. (When I look at school children and compare them to what I experienced when I grew up, it is not simply more muscle.)

I remember reading a while back an article which described how those who successfully kept their weight off were able to do it and it said that they basically have to deal with feeling hungry constantly. I found this striking in that I am one of what has been described as the lucky ones (not having had significant weight issues - I occasionally have to cut back, but it is a matter of trying to lose three or four pounds, not twenty or more), in that I have the opposite experience. Rather than constantly feeling hungry, I feel stuffed when I eat more than usual. So there might be an experiential difference between having to maintain a weight loss and never having had more weight. (Not wanting to take the time to look back, but I believe that the article cited in the original post mentioned some hormone or chemical that accounts for experienced hunger.)

I won't even call this my humble opinion, but my random thoughts on the issues raised in this thread.

 

[Elan]

Another multi-faceted problem. Some people are genetically predisposed to obesity, some people eat poorly, and others are lazy. I don't see the point in trying to associate weight issues with any one thing.

Me? I'm packing 10-15 extra right now. 6'1, 185-190lbs. Should be around 175ish. Quite frankly, I don't care that much that I'm overweight, because to lose the weight would require time away from other things, such as my kids. So, I'd rather be a good fat dad, than a skinny bad dad. If I didn't have kids, I'd undoubtedly be in much, much better shape. Such is life......