Glut of DVC Resale Listings?

[callwill]

Please explain what you mean here by 'should be forced'

To 'exercise ROFR' means exactly that, they 'buy you out' at the same price and terms of the contract.

AH>>i was thinking they could just say no to you selling it to that buyer.
in that case i will take the emily littella stance: Nevermind!

 

[Pathways]

Aren't there five and a half resorts with 2042 dates? That would be a lot of inventory that DVC has to carry until they sell it. I don't think the demand is there (at rental prices they charge) to fill all those rooms with cash guests for a period of several years after 2042. I suspect they may let a couple of the resorts go; like Vero ahd HHI. For the others, I suspect they will offer some type of reup to current owners. I doubt it will be a simple extension, but perhaps a buyin extension like they did with OKW. Apparently the OKW buyin was a real mess in that not only did they have to get people who signed up to sign, but they had to get people who didn't extend to sign saything they were offered and turned it down. So there are some legal questions about those that never signed anything regarding the extension at OKW.

I certainly have no guess here, but b/c I buy and sell frequently, I have conversations with multiple brokers, many of whom worked for Disney, and still have close friends there.

100% say HHI and Vero will simply be gone. Most are adamant that after the disaster as OKW, there will be no extensions tried anywhere else. I agree with you, and have argued the point 'How could they fill all those rooms with cash sales, while selling them anew'?

I mean, they keep turning CURRENT hotel space into DVC b/c of the lackluster rentals. Their comment has been they believe they will shut down most of the resorts and do almost a complete rebuild which will give them time to sell, building by building just like new construction.

A course no one really knows. 20 years is a generation away (16 years probably before they have to have the final 'no going back' plan). Their actual plan may totally change 2-3 times in that span.

 

[TheHolleys87]

A course no one really knows. 20 years is a generation away (16 years probably before they have to have the final 'no going back' plan). Their actual plan may totally change 2-3 times in that span.

Someone else pointed out elsewhere that the people who will make these decisions are probably just recently out of business school now.

I agree that those who think DVC will offer OKW-style extensions for owners of the 2042 resorts are deluding themselves. At best they might offer current-owner discounts on purchases at the refurbished/rebuilt WDW resorts, but I’m not even sure of that since it depends on how quickly after January 31, 2042 they can get the new resorts to the point at which they can be sold. It won’t make any difference to us — DH and I simply hope to be around long enough to find out what the final plan is!

 

[noreenkate]

Someone else pointed out elsewhere that the people who will make these decisions are probably just recently out of business school now.

I agree that those who think DVC will offer OKW-style extensions for owners of the 2042 resorts are deluding themselves. At best they might offer current-owner discounts on purchases at the refurbished/rebuilt WDW resorts, but I’m not even sure of that since it depends on how quickly after January 31, 2042 they can get the new resorts to the point at which they can be sold. It won’t make any difference to us — DH and I simply hope to be around long enough to find out what the final plan is!

Agreed the OKW extension failure will probably be still causing headaches when the time comes and I wonder each time I see OKW owners receive emails about buy-outs if it is for adding inventory for developer add-on sales or is it simply to reduce the possible headaches in 2042 change over. Personally I never received the buyout offers but both my direct and resale are extended contracts.

 

[dioxide45]

Agreed the OKW extension failure will probably be still causing headaches when the time comes and I wonder each time I see OKW owners receive emails about buy-outs if it is for adding inventory for developer add-on sales or is it simply to reduce the possible headaches in 2042 change over. Personally I never received the buyout offers but both my direct and resale are extended contracts.

I suspect they like to buyback OKW since they can resell with the 2057 expiration and it gives the sales people a decent drop product to sell when tour guests balk at Riviera or other new resort pricing.

 

[bizaro86]

I suspect they like to buyback OKW since they can resell with the 2057 expiration and it gives the sales people a decent drop product to sell when tour guests balk at Riviera or other new resort pricing.

Reselling OKW now with 2057 expiration also helps with the 2042 issue. The less product they get back all at once the smaller that issue will be, as they might only have the "problem" of getting a few years of inventory for free all at the same time.

Realistically they are paying $100 per point for rofr right now, if they have to pay even 5 years of dues before they can sell it they're way ahead (especially since they could also rent them during those 5 years)

Edited to add: if they don't want too much inventory, they could always offer existing owners of those intervals a one-time deal to repurchase (eg $125/point for a full renewal). Many would take that, even if just to resell later, which would drop the inventory they need to carry even further.

 

[noreenkate]

Reselling OKW now with 2057 expiration also helps with the 2042 issue. The less product they get back all at once the smaller that issue will be, as they might only have the "problem" of getting a few years of inventory for free all at the same time.

Realistically they are paying $100 per point for rofr right now, if they have to pay even 5 years of dues before they can sell it they're way ahead (especially since they could also rent them during those 5 years)

Edited to add: if they don't want too much inventory, they could always offer existing owners of those intervals a one-time deal to repurchase (eg $125/point for a full renewal). Many would take that, even if just to resell later, which would drop the inventory they need to carry even further.

It’s my understanding that OKW - DVC are offering buyback around $88 pp if contract is fully Loaded but stripped is around $80.

 

[bizaro86]

It’s my understanding that OKW - DVC are offering buyback around $88 pp if contract is fully Loaded but stripped is around $80.

But those owners are only selling DVC 20 years worth of OKW - once they get it back they can sell as long as they want.

Also, I believe they are paying more than $80 on rofr.

 

[dioxide45]

Reselling OKW now with 2057 expiration also helps with the 2042 issue. The less product they get back all at once the smaller that issue will be, as they might only have the "problem" of getting a few years of inventory for free all at the same time.

Realistically they are paying $100 per point for rofr right now, if they have to pay even 5 years of dues before they can sell it they're way ahead (especially since they could also rent them during those 5 years)

Edited to add: if they don't want too much inventory, they could always offer existing owners of those intervals a one-time deal to repurchase (eg $125/point for a full renewal). Many would take that, even if just to resell later, which would drop the inventory they need to carry even further.

DVC has offered, as recently as September 2021, a buyback offer to select OKW owners. The prices they were offering were around $80pp.

 

[dioxide45]

But those owners are only selling DVC 20 years worth of OKW - once they get it back they can sell as long as they want.

They can only sell it out through 2057. I don't think they can easily change the expiration date for new sales. Thus why we haven't seen more extensions like they did for OKW many years ago.

 

[bizaro86]

They can only sell it out through 2057. I don't think they can easily change the expiration date for new sales. Thus why we haven't seen more extensions like they did for OKW many years ago.

Sorry wasn't clear, I meant when they get those resorts (not just okw) back in 2042 they can sell it for as long as they want. So if 20 years of OKW is worth $80 or $100 to them now, the right to sell BCV or BWV for 50 years is going to be worth at least that much to them on 2042. So even if they have to pay the fees for those resorts for a few years before they can sell I think they will.

OKW is a weird one because of the partial extension. They might not want/be able to sell 2092 usage in 2042 there.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Our OKW expires when we are 87. We knew when we bought it would be a short ownership. Our daughter will only be 62, but maybe she will be Disneyed out by then? I doubt it. She is a Disney nut. She looked all over the parks, every single store, to find a specific sweatshirt in her size. She texted today and was so excited to spend $38 on that sweatshirt.

It's nice of all of the owners to continue to maintain and improve OKW for Disney to resell in 20 years. I do love it there. It's our favorite.

 

[noreenkate]

But those owners are only selling DVC 20 years worth of OKW - once they get it back they can sell as long as they want.

Also, I believe they are paying more than $80 on rofr.

the buyback offer is completely different than taking it through ROFR-

DVC is now offering owners of specific resorts, AKV, SSR, & OKW ( these are the only ones i am aware of that receives unsolicited offers via email- hey you haven’t been here in awhile ) buy outs…others have had success with calling in @Kat05 mentioned it’s relatively painless no commissions no haggling BUT a significant price difference IMO from resale market pricing.

 

[noreenkate]

Our OKW expires when we are 87. We knew when we bought it would be a short ownership. Our daughter will only be 62, but maybe she will be Disneyed out by then? I doubt it. She is a Disney nut. She looked all over the parks, every single store, to find a specific sweatshirt in her size. She texted today and was so excited to spend $38 on that sweatshirt.

It's nice of all of the owners to continue to maintain and improve OKW for Disney to resell in 20 years. I do love it there. It's our favorite.

same here and I fully plan if I am around to spend my 80th there!

This right here is why I joined DVC at OKW-
my mother in laws 80th surprise birthday at Olivia’s surrounded by her kids, grandkids, great-grands ect..

 

[ljmiii]

Disney ROFR'd an OKW contract in May at $141/pt. No idea about size of contract.

 

[rickandcindy23]

https://www.sellingtimeshares.net/category/listings/disney/

 

[rickandcindy23]

Disney ROFR's an OKW contract in May at $141/pt. No idea about size of contract.

Did you see that on disboards? What's with that? Maybe it was under 50 points?

Those are selling for a little over $100 per point on Seth Nock's website link I posted above.

 

[nomoretslt]

I too hope to outlive my BWV contracts. I’ll be 86. I want to see how it all ends at BWV. Have to say best money we ever spent in 1997 at $60/pp plus they reimbursed us for the $$ we paid for our week there....and got a nice canvas beach bag.
Resale prices seem to be falling slightly. I did see an increase of listings for a while, but it seems to be leveling out.
I’ve never rented out my points, but if they keep up with their nonsense (regarding annual Passes...we’ve been lucky enough to renew) I will consider renting and using the $$ to cruise on Norwegian or Royal.

 

[nomoretslt]

I saw that $141 figure for OKW on DVC resale market’s May report. Disney rofr’d 49% of the resale contracts from their sales. Had to be a small contract. We got $151 for a 50 point BWV contract in 2019 (?), which we bought resale 10 years prior for $88/pp.

 

[noreenkate]

I saw that $141 figure for OKW on DVC resale market’s May report. Disney rofr’d 49% of the resale contracts from their sales. Had to be a small contract. We got $151 for a 50 point BWV contract in 2019 (?), which we bought resale 10 years prior for $88/pp.

Curious- any idea if it was an extended?

lol I swear they are hunting the contracts down that they do not have a quit claim on

Edited to add article

Old Key West Extension Deeds Filed | DVCNews.com - The essential Disney Vacation Club resource!

Twelve years after offering 15-year ownership extensions at Disney's Old Key West Resort, Disney Vacation Club has begun filing deeds with Orange County to formalize the new contract end date. Bac

dvcnews.com

 

[Dean]

Im a beleiver in the idea that if they wish to exercise ROFR because the they think the sale price is too low, then they should be forced under those circumstances to buy you out.

I'll have to disagree. IMO a ROFR is a critical part of a developer plan to protect themselves for new and future sales. We all knew or should have known the risks involved when we signed up.

But those owners are only selling DVC 20 years worth of OKW - once they get it back they can sell as long as they want.

Also, I believe they are paying more than $80 on rofr.

All OKW contracts are extended, the only question is who owns the extra 15 years. If they take it back then they sell it as 2057 no matter what status it was before. The way the land lease is structured prior to Riviera, the extension is resort wide. IMO they didn't have the legal right to do it as they did years ago with OKW and had I still owned, I would have tested it in the courts.

 

[dioxide45]

I'll have to disagree. IMO a ROFR is a critical part of a developer plan to protect themselves for new and future sales. We all knew or should have known the risks involved when we signed up.
All OKW contracts are extended, the only question is who owns the extra 15 years. If they take it back then they sell it as 2057 no matter what status it was before. The way the land lease is structured prior to Riviera, the extension is resort wide. IMO they didn't have the legal right to do it as they did years ago with OKW and had I still owned, I would have tested it in the courts.

I think this is why DVC had to make a big push years ago to get even those that didn't extend to sign away their rights to the extra 15 years. I recall this being talked about in one of the DVC Fan videos. It will be interesting to see what happens ahead of 2042. Perhaps Disney is hoping most of OKW has been resold as 2057, but there will likely still be thousands of owners sitting on 2042 deeds.

 

[Dean]

I think this is why DVC had to make a big push years ago to get even those that didn't extend to sign away their rights to the extra 15 years. I recall this being talked about in one of the DVC Fan videos. It will be interesting to see what happens ahead of 2042. Perhaps Disney is hoping most of OKW has been resold as 2057, but there will likely still be thousands of owners sitting on 2047 deeds.

Likely a Typo, 2042 deeds? OKW 2057 scares me at this point with the requirement for fees and this issue. The owners will have to pay the fees and DVC will have to do something to use those rooms for 15 years. They could resell but I have trouble seeing DVC selling at a price that would actually sells those points, I just don't see them pricing it low enough to do so for a resort that's a moderate in some ways with higher fees than some and only 15 years or less remaining. I think it more likely they'll try to rent for cash, close down part of the resort or use it for college programs or something similar (or a combination).

 

[dioxide45]

Likely a Typo, 2042 deeds? OKW 2057 scares me at this point with the requirement for fees and this issue. The owners will have to pay the fees and DVC will have to do something to use those rooms for 15 years. They could resell but I have trouble seeing DVC selling at a price that would actually sells those points, I just don't see them pricing it low enough to do so for a resort that's a moderate in some ways with higher fees than some and only 15 years or less remaining. I think it more likely they'll try to rent for cash, close down part of the resort or use it for college programs or something similar (or a combination).

It is a big resort and I am sure they could rent it for cash on some level, I am just not sure there is enough demand when you consider all the other 2042 resorts. I doubt they really have a solution for 2042 deeds. For some resorts, it may just be a teardown and rebuild or a big overhaul. Aging buildings are a big problem when it comes to maintenance, so rebuilds are probably a better way to go. By 2057 those OKW buildings will be 67 years old. I suppose they could use it for other programs, but they already have infrastructure to support those. Without a new gate, there really wouldn't be a need for more housing for staff.

 

[Dean]

It is a big resort and I am sure they could rent it for cash on some level, I am just not sure there is enough demand when you consider all the other 2042 resorts. I doubt they really have a solution for 2042 deeds. For some resorts, it may just be a teardown and rebuild or a big overhaul. Aging buildings are a big problem when it comes to maintenance, so rebuilds are probably a better way to go. By 2057 those OKW buildings will be 67 years old. I suppose they could use it for other programs, but they already have infrastructure to support those. Without a new gate, there really wouldn't be a need for more housing for staff.

They used the Treehouse villas for college housing prior to redoing them and adding to the SSR resort. Surely they have a plan even if it's a loose one. I just can't imagine that reselling is going to be in the cards. They do have legal challenges ahead with most anything they do other than selling it again or eating it out. Of course they could extend it again to sell but I don't see that happening. I can certainly see many ways they could incentivize selling it even at 15 years but DVC does not have a track record of pricing or other incentives that make this likely in my mind. I'm not sure they can start a new development during the time as the entire resort will come under the POS. It should be interesting, I hope I'm around and aware enough know what's happening with it at the time.