• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Glut of DVC Resale Listings?

noreenkate

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Messages
1,129
Reaction score
605
I think this is why DVC had to make a big push years ago to get even those that didn't extend to sign away their rights to the extra 15 years. I recall this being talked about in one of the DVC Fan videos. It will be interesting to see what happens ahead of 2042. Perhaps Disney is hoping most of OKW has been resold as 2057, but there will likely still be thousands of owners sitting on 2042 deeds.

whatever they are up to it’s already been started…
They have already put hundreds of deed extensions through the comptroller’s office for the owners who signed the extension. That started in late 2019, no idea how far they got before COVID shutdowns

not sure why they refilled the deed extensions than or even if any of the effected owners even realize it was done.
 

Attachments

  • CA19C896-E270-4707-BABD-5DE364E90B98.png
    CA19C896-E270-4707-BABD-5DE364E90B98.png
    262.8 KB · Views: 25

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
48,895
Reaction score
20,333
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
whatever they are up to it’s already been started…
They have already put hundreds of deed extensions through the comptroller’s office for the owners who signed the extension. That started in late 2019, no idea how far they got before COVID shutdowns

not sure why they refilled the deed extensions than or even if any of the effected owners even realize it was done.
Not sure what it means, but looking at the Orange County records on this, it looks like the deed behind this extension was sold by DVC in 2013 (likely taken back and resold). So it would be covered by the 2057 expiration of newly sold deeds. This is probably just some paperwork they need to do for all deeds sold after 2007. Perhaps they did some reconciliation and found some that were not properly extended and then had them recorded.
 

noreenkate

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Messages
1,129
Reaction score
605
@dioxide45 - I follow this as my resale was a signed conversation so it kinda effects me. My direct contract deed filed by DVC has no such wording as above deed as it was purchased after the extension (2017). Same with the original purchase of my resale in (1998) it wasn’t long after the mass filing dvc started taking a lot of OKW in Rofr than the emails started.

if I had to guess, lol grabbing the tin foil hat, they refilled the extensions for CYA purposes. My guess is no further extensions will granted those with 2057 will get access to some of the original buildings and yet another tower will go up.

What ever it is they are doing they are legally dotting the i‘s and crossing the t’s this time around- why spend all that money filing over 400 deeds in 1 day if they didn’t have a plan.
 

ljmiii

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
2,220
Reaction score
1,347
Location
NY, NY
The logjam of DVC resale listings appears to have broken. The AKV contract I put on sale around 6 months ago went into contract last week. Not only did it go for 98% of the unchanged asking price, in the intervening months I rented out 2/3rds of a year's points for a tidy profit.

At the company I used, only 29 AKV listings are now active and 33 are pending somewhere in the sales process. Overall the numbers are 321 active listings and 265 in process. Certainly, the DVC resale market is nowhere near as fevered as it was last summer and prices have slumped somewhat. But it once again is liquid.
 

rickandcindy23

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
32,912
Reaction score
9,660
Location
The Centennial State
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Founder; Disney OKW & SSR; Marriott's Willow Ridge and Shadow Ridge,Grand Chateau; Val Chatelle; Hono Koa OF (3); SBR(LOTS), SDO a few; Grand Palms(selling); WKORV-OF ,Westin Desert Willow.
I am going to keep renting or using my OKW right up until it expires. I will be 87. I think it expires in 2042. I don't remember.
 

ljmiii

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
2,220
Reaction score
1,347
Location
NY, NY
I am going to keep renting or using my OKW right up until it expires. I will be 87. I think it expires in 2042. I don't remember.
It does expire in 2042. Unless you purchased the 2057 extension. Or a court agrees with plaintiffs that the deed means what it says and that since WDW extended DVD's lease until 2057 and the DVC deeds don't expire until DVD's lease expires that the DVC deeds don't expire until 2057 either.

As for us, we put our relatively recently purchased AKV points on sale after we discovered that we really kind of hate staying there. We had previously stayed at Jambo without a car and thought that having a car along with the larger villas and extra bathroom at Kidani would make us enjoy AKV more...but we didn't.
 

nomoretslt

Guest
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
617
Reaction score
650
@ljmiii I’ve also noticed less new listings compared to a few weeks ago. I’m on the fence on a small resale at Riviera…..it’s been sitting there…..which is unusual because the small Riviera contracts usually go quickly. Owner won’t consider any offers less than full asking price so there’s that, The resale rules don’t bother me. I have direct there and all other contracts are grandfathered in. Congrats on your sale….wonder if it will get rofr’d. I was shocked a few year ago when we sold our Saratoga contact to purchase Riviera. DVC took it….
at a time when it was nearly unheard of. We too won’t stay at AKL again. Beautiful resort, nice big rooms but not fun taking a bus. I actually drove to AK…..quicker than the bus. MK was a nightmare.
@rickandcindy23 I’m hoping to outlive my Boardwalk contract…2042 also. I’ll be 86. I want to see what will happen to the Boardwalk. Old Key West is lovely also. Great points chart, as is the Boardwalk.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
48,895
Reaction score
20,333
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
It does expire in 2042. Unless you purchased the 2057 extension. Or a court agrees with plaintiffs that the deed means what it says and that since WDW extended DVD's lease until 2057 and the DVC deeds don't expire until DVD's lease expires that the DVC deeds don't expire until 2057 either.

As for us, we put our relatively recently purchased AKV points on sale after we discovered that we really kind of hate staying there. We had previously stayed at Jambo without a car and thought that having a car along with the larger villas and extra bathroom at Kidani would make us enjoy AKV more...but we didn't.
Is there a pending lawsuit regarding the extension at OKW? I suspect this is why DVC is trying to buy back as much OKW as they can. They are really active on 2043 contracts there and also sent out that insulting buyback offer a while ago to OKW owners. If they have to honor 2057 for all owners, you can bet there will be those that paid for the extension asking for a refund.
 

TheHolleys87

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
2,208
Reaction score
1,641
Location
Texas
Resorts Owned
DVC Boardwalk Villas, Kona Coast II
Is there a pending lawsuit regarding the extension at OKW? I suspect this is why DVC is trying to buy back as much OKW as they can. They are really active on 2043 contracts there and also sent out that insulting buyback offer a while ago to OKW owners. If they have to honor 2057 for all owners, you can bet there will be those that paid for the extension asking for a refund.
For what it’s worth, I haven’t read of a lawsuit, but I have read of multiple owners’ attorneys pointing out to DVC exactly what you pointed out about the ground lease. And I’ve also read that when a 2042 contract is sold, the sellers have to sign a quit-claim for the extension before Disney will pass on its ROFR.
 

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
11,872
Reaction score
5,605
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
If they have to honor 2057 for all owners, you can bet there will be those that paid for the extension asking for a refund.
Some percentage of owners signed the quit claim deed when the lease was extended--and probably a substantial number of them. As I understand it, anyone who didn't sign one (or didn't buy the extension) is being told they must do so as a condition of transfer if they sell their points. I will bet that's being applied to gratuitous transfers as well.

That leaves only people who (a) never signed the quit-claim, (b) didn't buy the extension, and (c) held the deed until 2042. I will bet there are very few people in that category, if only because of the Grim Reaper. I also suspect the Mouse will find some way to close the door on anyone who is left.
 

bizaro86

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
3,765
Reaction score
2,608
Location
Calgary, AB, Canada
Some percentage of owners signed the quit claim deed when the lease was extended--and probably a substantial number of them. As I understand it, anyone who didn't sign one (or didn't buy the extension) is being told they must do so as a condition of transfer if they sell their points. I will bet that's being applied to gratuitous transfers as well.

That leaves only people who (a) never signed the quit-claim, (b) didn't buy the extension, and (c) held the deed until 2042. I will bet there are very few people in that category, if only because of the Grim Reaper. I also suspect the Mouse will find some way to close the door on anyone who is left.

I don't see how an hoa could require a quit claim to a developer to transfer real property. Doesn't seem likely to be legal to me. But of course someone would have to fight them on it.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
48,895
Reaction score
20,333
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
I don't see how an hoa could require a quit claim to a developer to transfer real property. Doesn't seem likely to be legal to me. But of course someone would have to fight them on it.
The strong arm of Disney...
 

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
11,872
Reaction score
5,605
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
Remember that the property is subject to the governing documents (it says so right on the deed); I wouldn't be surprised if there is a hook in those somewhere that accounts for this. For example, the contract agreed to by the original purchaser has a defined end date of 2042 for participation in the points program, which might give the Mouse a leg to stand on for both denial of use for those who don't sell and requiring the quit claim on transfer.

You might still own a fraction of the resort, but you will no longer have an ability to participate in the points program. What does that even mean? I don't know. I do know it's probably not going to be worth fighting about, in dollars and cents terms.
 

ljmiii

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
2,220
Reaction score
1,347
Location
NY, NY
Is there a pending lawsuit regarding the extension at OKW? I suspect this is why DVC is trying to buy back as much OKW as they can...
No lawsuits yet, I doubt any court will grant standing until an OKW owner's 2042 points fail to appear in their account.

I know that when the OKW extension was offered in 2007, 19.1% of OKW points were extended. And my understanding is that most owners chose to neither pay for the extension nor sign the quit claim.

It will be interesting to see how far DVC gets with their new-ish quit claim transfer requirement. Say in 2020, 70% of OKW was 2042 of which at most 20% had quit claims attached. So of that 50% of OKW left, what percentage will change hands in the next 20 years?
 

ljmiii

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
2,220
Reaction score
1,347
Location
NY, NY
You might still own a fraction of the resort, but you will no longer have an ability to participate in the points program. What does that even mean? I don't know...
On the other hand, you still own that percentage of OKW so DVD/DVC can't sell it to someone else. If in 2041-ish around 25% of OKW is neither 2057 nor quit claimed that is a significant chuck of change. And missing 25% of dues would blow a significant hole in OKW's annual operating budget.
 
Last edited:

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
11,872
Reaction score
5,605
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
my understanding is that most owners chose to neither pay for the extension nor sign the quit claim.
Out of curiosity, what's that based on? My assumption is that responding was more likely than not, and that most owners would see the two options they were given and pick one. I could definitely be wrong about that though; it's a WAG.
 

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
11,872
Reaction score
5,605
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
And missing 25% of dues would blow a significant hole in OKW's annual operating budget.
What makes you think they won't redistribute the operating costs among the viable owners, just as happens at other resorts with non-performing deeds? That's probably a death spiral, but who (at Disney) cares? It only lasts 15 years.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
48,895
Reaction score
20,333
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
Out of curiosity, what's that based on? My assumption is that responding was more likely than not, and that most owners would see the two options they were given and pick one. I could definitely be wrong about that though; it's a WAG.
From listening to podcasts that include some former DVC salespeople. When they offered the extension, it wasn't long after that they made call and mailing blitzes trying to get people to sign to indicate that they didn't want the extension. It would seem they had to sign the quit claim. I don't think simply not signing up for the extension is enough of a leg to stand on for Disney. Otherwise they wouldn't be going to the extra measures now to ROFR and buyback inventory as well as have sellers sign the quit claim upon sale. They seem nervous enough about the issue to indicate they beleive they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

I suspect they plan to get the population of those that are still original owners that didn't sign the quit claim so small to make any class small enough that most attorneys wouldn't bother with it.
 

ljmiii

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
2,220
Reaction score
1,347
Location
NY, NY
Out of curiosity, what's that based on?...
Admittedly informal polling on the disboards, my usual source for all Disney info. I'm not a regular...it's like putting your mouth to a firehose to get a drink of water...but when I've needed some piece of Disney info I can usually find it there.

I learned about the OKW issue when DVC announced the Riviera restrictions. I had money set aside to buy at Riviera...actually a fixed week at Riviera...until the restrictions were announced. For what it's worth, the OKW fiasco wasn't the last time DVD's lawyers failed. The POS restricting resale buyers from staying at Riviera originally said, "Purchasers who purchase an Ownership Interest at any DVC Resort, other than Riviera Resort, from a Club Member who owned the Ownership Interest prior to January 19, 2019, are excluded from the prohibition set forth in this Paragraph 2." So all you had to do to stay at Riviera as a resale buyer at another resort was purchase from someone who owned before 1/19/19.
 

ljmiii

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
2,220
Reaction score
1,347
Location
NY, NY
What makes you think they won't redistribute the operating costs among the viable owners...
I expect they will still be a viable concern in 2042 trying to sell DVC points - including all those quit claimed OKW 2042 points. You can hide a 2% rate, at 25% the dues become prohibitive. Plus I expect Disney won't want to give all OKW owners a reason to join a lawsuit instead of just those who own non quit claimed 2042 points.
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,107
Reaction score
6,467
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
Timeshare people never cease to amaze me. This is a vacation guys! What is all this talk about lawsuits? On many of the threads, people are threatening lawsuits. Is that how you want to spend your time on vacation?
 

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
11,872
Reaction score
5,605
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
There are so many ways for Disney to get out of this. They can offer those last few years to "expiring" owners at a sharp discount over other sold-out resorts with comparable expirations. They probably can also find some other hook in the CC&Rs that lets them do what they want.

The idea that the Mouse is going to just let owners who are (a) still alive (b) didn't pay and (c) didn't sign just keep using the resort is not realistic, and anyone who thinks otherwise just hasn't been paying attention.
 

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
10,203
Reaction score
3,822
The membership is tied to the ground lease. When they extended, they extended all contracts. The only question was who would own the last 15 years. Disney offered at $25 PP but with initially a $10 discount and later a $5 discount. It’s been while but I’ve seen examples of resale buyers being able to extend because the previous owner never signed over. The hook to forcing the issue was a special assessment but as I read the POS, there is nothing there that would allow a SA for this purpose. It is my contention that anyone who didn’t sign over or pay will end up with an extended contract. The question is how much of a gorilla is DVC willing to be. They could lock the contract until the owner either pays or signs over. I do believe legal action would be successful but would it be worth it?
 
Last edited:

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
48,895
Reaction score
20,333
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
There are so many ways for Disney to get out of this. They can offer those last few years to "expiring" owners at a sharp discount over other sold-out resorts with comparable expirations. They probably can also find some other hook in the CC&Rs that lets them do what they want.

The idea that the Mouse is going to just let owners who are (a) still alive (b) didn't pay and (c) didn't sign just keep using the resort is not realistic, and anyone who thinks otherwise just hasn't been paying attention.
If the Mouse had a way out, why haven’t they taken it yet? Why wait till the last few years before expiration. I suspect they don’t have a way out. If they did, they wouldn’t be buying up 2042 OKW contracts like they are and wouldn’t be forcing Quit Claims on sellers either.
 

bizaro86

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
3,765
Reaction score
2,608
Location
Calgary, AB, Canada
No lawsuits yet, I doubt any court will grant standing until an OKW owner's 2042 points fail to appear in their account.

I think you could get standing on a suit for conversion or something similar given they are demanding quit claim deeds to process transfers.
 
Top