Future Value of Timeshare - Orlando

[Rent_Share]

meantime, maintenance fees are annual and forever.

increasing at a multiple of normal inflation

 

[theo]

No "one size fits all" valuations...

Do you have an example of the resort on the market that worths paying several thousand dollars? I'm very curious to know.

Sure...

$10,000 cash will not get you a resale winter week in any size unit at Hyatt Sunset Harbor in Key West.

I'd been looking for one for a few years, but have lost interest with annual maint. fees now around $1,000. At that maint. fee cost, I'll keep that $10k thank you, and just rent a week there now and then instead...

 

[ronparise]

Im about to pull the trigger on a Mardi Gras Event week in New Orleans

 

[Ridewithme38]

$10,000 cash will not get you a resale winter week in any size unit at Hyatt Sunset Harbor in Key West.

I'd been looking for one for a few years, but have now lost interest with annual maint. fees around $1,000. At that maintenance fee cost, I'll keep my $10k, thank you, and just rent an occasional week there instead...

Now is this week priced that high because of ROFR or does it actually have value...What i'm asking is, does Hyatt have a ROFR standard on this resort

 

[sunshine4]

Also note that there are lots of timeshares around THE MOUSE. But they are not created equal. I do not think you mentioned which TS it was. I am a realtor and the TS industy is very different from the housing market. That is wishful thinking on the value going up when the housing market rebounds. In my opinion not true except that when that happens the economy will be better also and people will have more to spend for vacation. But that does not mean they will spend more on a TS. As long as some sellers are willing to sell for 0 prices will stay low. Just my opinion of course. For e complete discloser I do have a TS there @ Orange Lake and love it.

 

[theo]

Supply and demand...

Now is this week priced that high because of ROFR or does it actually have value...What i'm asking is, does Hyatt have a ROFR standard on this resort

ROFR is not in any way a factor; it's instead the simple and fundamental market law and reality of "supply and demand". Key West is an "unusual" situation in oh-so-many ways anyhow, of course, and virtually everything there is a bit "pricey" anyhow --- at best. This facility is completely sold out, there is very little resale supply and there is always lots of winter demand. Even owners at other Key West Hyatts (there are two other Hyatt timeshare properties located within Key West), with plenty of Hyatt points firmly in hand to use, can't very often even get into Sunset Harbor in the winter months.

I actually even understated the numbers a bit. $10k was just my personal pain threshold and maximum.
In point of fact, no winter week ownerships have been sold there for a penny less than $12k in recent years --- and very few have been offered or available at all. In truth, many original purchasers paid less than $12k in the first place. In short, the existence and /or exercise of ROFR is simply irrelevant in this instance.

The Galleon is another resale market anomaly in Key West. No ROFR mechanism even exists there and winter weeks advertise (...and yes, get resold...) for twice the figures cited above for Sunset Harbor. However, there are boat docks available on site for owner use at The Galleon. Not so at Sunset Harbor, where the "docks" are mostly used by huge cruise ships blotting out the sky and discharging their hordes into Key West.

 

[rickandcindy23]

If this person is selling a Marriott Grande Vista or Cypress Harbour, or a Vistana Villages for $500, I would buy it. If it's not one of those resorts, then it's probably not worth $500.

There are timeshares in Orlando that are worth $500, but it's the ongoing fees that become your obligation, and sometimes it's too much.

As others have said, go to eBay, but don't buy in Orlando, because the fees are high, and it's an easy trade.

 

[timeos2]

Also note that there are lots of timeshares around THE MOUSE. But they are not created equal. I do not think you mentioned which TS it was. I am a realtor and the TS industy is very different from the housing market. That is wishful thinking on the value going up when the housing market rebounds. In my opinion not true except that when that happens the economy will be better also and people will have more to spend for vacation. But that does not mean they will spend more on a TS. As long as some sellers are willing to sell for 0 prices will stay low. Just my opinion of course. For e complete discloser I do have a TS there @ Orange Lake and love it.

Great point. The ONLY reason to own a timeshare anywhere - but especially in Orlando - is because you plan to USE IT 95%+ of the available time. Not trade, not rent, but use it for you & your family in a place you want to return to each use period. Also you want to own the rights to the top use periods - school vacations, holidays if it's float time (the best in a year round area like Orlando - you'd want a fixed top demand use time in seasonal areas to guarantee you a desirable use period.

Any purchase for any other reason - renting, future value, trading - will result in disillusionment and money lost in 99% of the cases. There are only a literal handful of resorts anywhere - and even those only in the yop of the top times- worth $5000 or more. Most resorts - regardless of use time - are at best $2K or far less (as down to zero - you take it for the obiligation for those always present annual fees). Thats why you need to know you want to use the time and get value for the fees paid. Anything else is way too risky today (maybe it always was) in an unstable and largely unwanted market such as timeshares tend to be.

They have value for use and really nothing more. And paying anything for 80% of them makes no sense - another 19%+ are worth at most a thousand or two and unless you want a specific super highend resort during only the top 10 weeks of the use year virtually no timeshare out there is worth over $5K. So few that even thinking about a purchase for over $5k is virtually guarantee of big money down the drain when you in turn try to resell.

Buy / accept free only to use and preferably at a place you can drive to if needed. Unless you've found THE place you want to return to for many years to come just rent. That is the best value out there today & gives you the most options by far. The costs and complete uncertainty and unavailability of trades makes that option a poor one now. Good luck & enjoy.

 

[pedro47]

Buy / accept free only to use and preferably at a place you can drive to if needed. Unless you've found THE place you want to return to for many years to come just rent. That is the best value out there today & gives you the most options by far. The costs and complete uncertainty and unavailability of trades makes that option a poor one now. Good luck & enjoy.

I agree with the above statement 100%. We own two (2) timeshare that we can drive to under one hour. When purchasing a timeshare you must factor in the yearly m/f, drive time to the resort, or airline tickets to reach the resort & return home tickets costs, the cost of a rental vehicle for a week and food.

Good luck and think before you purchase.

 

[grgs]

Is TUG the best place to search and rent a timeshare?

Is timeshare renting just like living in a hotel room or do I need to sign more legal documents...?

Keep in mind that renting from an owner is usually a bit different than reserving a hotel room. Typically, owner rentals require that the rental be paid upfront and are usually non-refundable/non-cancellable. So, if your travel schedule is likely to change, owner rentals are likely not the best way to go. On the plus side, if you can commit to particular week, and don't mind paying up front, you can often rent for the cost of maintenance fees (sometimes below) in a location such as Orlando.

I agree with other posters who recommended the TUG marketplace, redweek.com (requires a small membership fee to access listings), and myresortnetwork.com for owner rentals.

Glorian

 

[vckempson]

Great point. The ONLY reason to own a timeshare anywhere - but especially in Orlando - is because you plan to USE IT 95%+ of the available time. Not trade, not rent, but use it for you & your family in a place you want to return to each use period. .

Now for a dissenting opinion. I couldn't disagree more. While I own where I like to vacation, I've never been to my home resorts and only purchased to trade. In 2012 we'll have 6 trades that we're headed to, pretty much all top of the line resorts. Quite frankly, the only way timesharing makes sense these days is to leverage 1 week into several. The MF's are just too dang high to make one vacation for 1 MF worth the cost. Each vacation of mine next year will have a net cost of about $450 each including cost per TPU and exchange costs. If you only stay where you own, your costs are likely to be 50% to 100% higher. That's a price point where people become disillusioned and want out.

Picking up great TPU producers for pennies on the dollar is the only way to go these days. Having them at locations you'd like to travel to if the ability to trade goes south is sensible, but that's plan B, the fallback position.

I'd love to see a poll here on TUG related to using or trading weeks that people here own. Certainly, most of the conversation seems to center around trading; the best resorts, the best times, and how & when to snag them. I'd be very surprised if the majority of people use the weeks they own rather than trading.

 

[Ridewithme38]

I'd love to see a poll here on TUG related to using or trading weeks that people here own. Certainly, most of the conversation seems to center around trading; the best resorts, the best times, and how & when to snag them. I'd be very surprised if the majority of people use the weeks they own rather than trading.

An indepth sticky on the new RCI system and II and how to buy to trade, or trade successfully what you already own would be awesome...i'm a newbie who hasn't exchanged once yet, so i know it would even help me alot too

If done well, we could even include that with Denise's stock advice for those looking to sell(maybe exchange instead and this is how to do it best)

 

[ampaholic]

-snip-
Quite frankly, the only way timesharing makes sense these days is to leverage 1 week into several. The MF's are just too dang high to make one vacation for 1 MF worth the cost.
-snip-

I agree: in fact with VRI I just traded a blue week 1 bed (winter) at a small place on the Oregon coast for a same size week 15 at Waikiki Wyndham Beach Walk - quite an upgrade and excellent use of "leverage". Total cost for the Waikiki week = $390.

My one $700 MF at MROP got me the blue week and a white week I have yet to "spend" - so I figure $300 for the blue week and $400 for the white week.

 

[timeos2]

Now for a dissenting opinion. I couldn't disagree more. While I own where I like to vacation, I've never been to my home resorts and only purchased to trade. In 2012 we'll have 6 trades that we're headed to, pretty much all top of the line resorts. Quite frankly, the only way timesharing makes sense these days is to leverage 1 week into several. The MF's are just too dang high to make one vacation for 1 MF worth the cost. Each vacation of mine next year will have a net cost of about $450 each including cost per TPU and exchange costs. If you only stay where you own, your costs are likely to be 50% to 100% higher. That's a price point where people become disillusioned and want out.

Picking up great TPU producers for pennies on the dollar is the only way to go these days. Having them at locations you'd like to travel to if the ability to trade goes south is sensible, but that's plan B, the fallback position.

I'd love to see a poll here on TUG related to using or trading weeks that people here own. Certainly, most of the conversation seems to center around trading; the best resorts, the best times, and how & when to snag them. I'd be very surprised if the majority of people use the weeks they own rather than trading.

Trading CAN work but it costs far more, is less reliable and thus risky than just renting. No upfront costs, only get exactly the resorts, dates, maybe even view you want and avoidence of bogus fees & use restrictions often imposed by exchange co's. Far less incertainty and usually BIG savings over trades.

That's why now it makes zero sense to buy or take for trade. It was always a poor value now it makes no sense what so ever.

 

[theo]

To each his / her own...

<snip> I'd be very surprised if the majority of people use the weeks they own rather than trading.

I do not claim to represent or to speak for any mythical "majority", but I own ten weeks and I always use them (...renting out a week or two only on rare occasions) and I never trade. Maybe that's a "minority" position, but speaking only for myself I want nothing to do with RCI at any time under any circumstances. Obviously, YMMV....

 

[Passepartout]

I own one week that I use. One that's a mini system that allows me to trade around within the system- one week a year- and one RCI Points resort that I exchange- parlaying one week for 2-3 weeks a year of nice vacations. A combination that works well for me.

None in Orlando- or Las Vegas- or Williamsburg. All very easy trades or rental locations.

Jim

 

[Timeshare Von]

I own one week that I use. One that's a mini system that allows me to trade around within the system- one week a year- and one RCI Points resort that I exchange- parlaying one week for 2-3 weeks a year or vacations. A nice combination that works well for me.

None in Orlando- or Las Vegas- or Williamsburg. All very easy trades or rental locations.

Jim

I'm with Jim on this one. Easy enough to trade into Orlando so why buy/own there? I even gave away our 3BR L/O unit in Williamsburg once I realized that with the "new" RCI TPE and the increasing fees, I'd be better off looking for trades when we want to go back "home" to Williamsburg.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Vicious Circle.

Trading CAN work but it costs far more, is less reliable and thus risky than just renting. No upfront costs, only get exactly the resorts, dates, maybe even view you want and avoidence of bogus fees & use restrictions often imposed by exchange co's. Far less incertainty and usually BIG savings over trades.

That's why now it makes zero sense to buy or take for trade. It was always a poor value now it makes no sense what so ever.

We pretty much know how to work RCI, more for Last Call & Instant Exchange & Extra Vacation Getaways (on sale) than for straight-weeks & straight-points exchanges, but so far it works for us (more or less).

By contrast, we have no idea of where to look for advantageous private party rentals -- & little incentive to try figuring it out so long as we're making RCI reservations.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[ampaholic]

I'm with Alan on this

Trading CAN work but it costs far more, is less reliable and thus risky than just renting. No upfront costs, only get exactly the resorts, dates, maybe even view you want and avoidence of bogus fees & use restrictions often imposed by exchange co's. Far less incertainty and usually BIG savings over trades.

That's why now it makes zero sense to buy or take for trade. It was always a poor value now it makes no sense what so ever.

I think renting takes a different skill set - not sure there are threads describing how to learn the skills?

I have tried to rent and find the owners tend to value their weeks much too highly for my taste - mush easier for me to get leveraged trades.

YMMV

 

[vckempson]

Trading CAN work but it costs far more, is less reliable and thus risky than just renting. No upfront costs, only get exactly the resorts, dates, maybe even view you want and avoidence of bogus fees & use restrictions often imposed by exchange co's. Far less incertainty and usually BIG savings over trades.

That's why now it makes zero sense to buy or take for trade. It was always a poor value now it makes no sense what so ever.

I won't deny that renting can work well. But as others have pointed out, I haven't been exposed to the tools to find what I want, when I want through rentals. I got my current TS's free (or for less than the pre-paid MF and usage that came with them). I can't imagine staying in the places I have coming up for any where near my net cost.

If you and others can do it, kudos to you. And if you or a newcomer can truly get the same places at the same costs as I'm able to, renting is the only way to go. I just know that I'm not able to do that.

 

[kevinmn]

One more question. Why is the annual maintainence fee so expensive? Could it come down in the future?

For example, if $860 is the average MF for the resort, the total fee collected on one room would be $860*52 weeks = $45k. A 100-unit timeshare resort collects $45k*100=$4.5 million for maintenance???

 

[Passepartout]

One more question. Why is the annual maintainence fee so expensive? Could it come down in the future?

Not likely. MF's seem to increase at a higher rate than inflation. Most have a ceiling rate of increase- like 5% or some index- whichever is higher. But I have a hunch you are saying to yourself, "Jeez, 45K is a lot to keep up a condo", but when you figure in the grounds, payroll of the help, periodic refurbs, careful HOA's keep the MF pretty close to the cost of operation- when the HOA is owners. When the board is controlled by the developer, that's a different story- the profit motive of stockholders comes into play. This is exactly why I own only resorts managed by owner-elected boards.

Jm

 

[timeos2]

One more question. Why is the annual maintainence fee so expensive? Could it come down in the future?

For example, if $860 is the average MF for the resort, the total fee collected on one room would be $860*52 weeks = $45k. A 100-unit timeshare resort collects $45k*100=$4.5 million for maintenance???

It isn't high if you look at what it covers. It is not only the cost to operate what amounts to a hotel type function (reservations, check in/out, front desk services), a 1000 to 1800 square foot or larger 2, 3 or more bedroom/bath, full kitchen condo - fully furnished, all utilities, cable, etc paid, resort style amenities and more in most cases. Plus the estimated future costs to mainatian, replace/upgrade all of that collected (hopefully) over the current life span of the existing items. Plus the often hefty property taxes. So, yes, it's "only a week" but it involves far more than a full ownership of a condo would along with wear and tear a privately owned condo is unlikely to experience.

Will they go down? Extremely unlikely - what things that you buy to operate and maintain your home has gone down recently? And do you have housekeepers, maintenance personnel, front desk staff, security and management to pay salaries to on your place?

The biggest complaint of otherwise happy timeshare owners are the annual fees. The only bigger complaint is when they face a (often huge) special assessment because those fees weren't adequate to cover the needs and upgrades of their resort. Far better to collect what is needed slowly over the years - and enough - to cover those requirements despite what seems to be high rates when viewed through the eyes of a single/unit week. While there are groups that depend on corporate income from owners (mostly the already high priced "name" brands such as Hyatt, Hilton Marriott, DVC) and they in fact do take 15-25% or more in excess overhead beyond the actual costs involved, owner controlled and independently managed resorts spend nearly every dollar for the betterment of the resort. Those are the place to own - to use - to get the best value.

Are fees too high? Yes, but not at the best managed resorts or for the high demand times.

 

[timeos2]

Not likely. MF's seem to increase at a higher rate than inflation. Most have a ceiling rate of increase- like 5% or some index- whichever is higher. But I have a hunch you are saying to yourself, "Jeez, 45K is a lot to keep up a condo", but when you figure in the grounds, payroll of the help, periodic refurbs, careful HOA's keep the MF pretty close to the cost of operation- when the HOA is owners. When the board is controlled by the developer, that's a different story- the profit motive of stockholders comes into play. This is exactly why I own only resorts managed by owner-elected boards.

Jm

We were typing nearly identical thoughts at the same time! I find I MUST agree with you!

 

[Signs]

Cars and Timeshares

I know that I am going to get accused of being a timeshare salesperson, but I am not. The value of a timeshare is just that, they are what they are. When you buy a car I expect most of your think that you will sell it for more than what you paid for it.

If you do you have kept it for a very long time, and if nothing else had to pay storage for it. I can ride a bus, take a cab etc... for less than what I paid for my car. If I would do that I would not have to pay taxes, tags, insurance, tires, repairs, upkeep etc... Much less gas to run it. Plus I would not be concerned about having to have a place to park it.

Now I guess I made a good deal on my timeshare when I bought it, because it does have a little resale value, and I can rent out the lock out to at least cover the maintenance fee for the whole unit. (When I rent it, I usually do better than the maintenance fee). I also take advantage of the get-aways from time to time, and expect this to increase within the next couple of years.

The only reason I bought my timeshare is because I planned on using it every year, just like I planned on driving my car everyday. The payback is that I know I can rent it for more than the maintenance fee, even just the lockout. It is really not legal to rent your car unless you follow a lot of laws to do it.

Now buying a timeshare is just like buying a house, location, location, location, and the time of year. Some will say major resort like Marriott etc...
Don't know that, but makes sense, but I can tell you this, that if you advertise the resort and link the resort to your ad, people will most likely rent directly from the resort until you have them hooked. (For me I would hate to own a timeshare during Spring break in Ft. Lauderdale just because of damages).

The best advertising campaign is to have your own webpage for your unit, do not list the resort that it is in, just the location of the resort with pictures and your phone number and email address. Also, list what is going on with links to events etc... Advertise it everywhere you know, from Craigslist to timeshare users groups to vacation groups, if you belong to meetup.com even advertise it there. You have to market it, if you don't it will not rent. Just placing your ad in one place with limited wording will not work, place that ad but link it to the webpage of your unit. There are many places that you can get free web hosting to do this. Make it stand out, and for the most part you don't want to put in on the 5th floor of the Marriott at wherever. You are advertising the Marriott not your unit. Make sure they will get floored when they find out it is in the Marriott, for what you are charging. I have never rented my timeshare to someone that knew it was. I do tell them before I get payment, however. They just knew that it was at a major resort in a perfect location.

Now when I rent my lockout, all I do is get $100 refundable deposit, all is paid in advance through PayPal and make sure they have a major credit card. Now I am there when it is rented so I pretty much know what is going on.

I even give them the deposit back when they leave. I just tell the resort John Smith is using my unit, and please take their credit card number when they check in. It is that simple. No one has complained, because they know they are staying in a top rate resort. Of course they can rent a room right at the motel next to where they are staying at, on the oceanfront with a balcony, no kitchen just a room, also it was built in the 60's and looks like it. No indoor pool etc... If you do your work on the rental you will see that you can rent many for the cost of the maintenance fee.

Lets go back again, if you had a choice, between renting a Yugo car, for $200 a week, or a Cadillac for $300 a week which would you do? The ones that would rent the Yugo, a timeshare is not for you, please sell it now.

And after you do, buy your own vacation home in the middle of a major resort area and see what that will cost, and for upkeep, and see what you will get for resale value, and good luck renting it, because if you cannot rent your timeshare to cover the maintenance fee alone you will never cover the cost of ownership of a vacation home.