Future Value of Timeshare - Orlando

[kevinmn]

I just found this website online. One of my coworkers owns timeshare at a nice resort close to Disney in Orlando. His kids have grown up and he no longer needs the timeshare. He told me that he can give it to me for only $500 as long as I agree to completely take the contract over and pay $860 maintainence fee from now on.

Here is my situation, I probably will bring my 4-year old daughter to Disney every other year for a few times. $860 fee is good enough to rent a resort for a week. So it doesn't make sense to buy this timeshare if I just want to find a place to stay.

The question is that will the timeshare in this region appreciate in the future together with house market? If so, I can take it over from my coworker as a long term investment. After all he spent almost $20k to buy it in 2004. Will the price ever come back even to $5k-$10k range?

I know buying timeshare is complex. I'll do more research. Any advice from the forum is welcomed!!!

 

[Talent312]

Do not buy a TS as an investment, not even a speculative investment.
The only TS's that retain any value are hotel-systems that actively use a
right of first refusal, and even then, resale is barely 1/4 of retail prices.

They do not appreciate in value.

The only reason to purchase a TS is to use it regularly, as if a rental.
You may be able to rent for less, but there's a benefit to having your
own. It gives you a regular place to go (or trade), like a personal retreat.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Many If Not Most Timeshare Deeds Are Worth Close To Zero On The Open Market.

The question is that will the timeshare in this region appreciate in the future together with house market? If so, I can take it over from my coworker as a long term investment. After all he spent almost $20k to buy it in 2004. Will the price ever come back even to $5k-$10k range?

I know buying timeshare is complex. I'll do more research. Any advice from the forum is welcomed!

Timeshares aren't investments, no way & no how. The fair market value of many timeshare deeds, including plenty of really nice ones, is approximately zero.

Nothing that the timeshare companies sell at full freight is ever worth the money. Full-freight timeshare sellers peddling their wares at $20,000+ know full well that the deeds are worth little or nothing on the open market. That is surely evidence that their consciences, if any, are irredeemably corrupt.

In any case, there is no relation -- none -- between the original full-freight selling price of a timeshare & its current open-market value.

Full Disclosure: We gave away 4 -- four -- timeshares during the past 2 years, including 1 outstanding every-year 3BR-3BA Orlando timeshare & 2 nice triennial Kissimmee points timeshares. We preferred giving them away for nothing over trying to sell them for next to nothing. The fact that the original owners paid thousands for the deeds that we gave away el freebo is mox nix. (We bought'm all resale for nickels on the full-freight dollar.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[kevinmn]

Thank you very much for the info! I'm confused a little bit by your comment of "The fair market value of many timeshare deeds, including plenty of really nice ones, is approximately zero.".

Since the timeshare deeds own the property, which has underlying value. Why not the timeshare owners sell the resort and get something back? For example, if the resort worths $10 million, and there are 1,000 timeshare deeds, each owner can get $10,000 by choosing to sell the property.

Timeshares aren't investments, no way & no how. The fair market value of many timeshare deeds, including plenty of really nice ones, is approximately zero.

Nothing that the timeshare companies sell at full freight is ever worth the money. Full-freight timeshare sellers peddling their wares at $20,000+ know full well that the deeds are worth little or nothing on the open market. That is surely evidence that their consciences, if any, are irredeemably corrupt.

In any case, there is no relation -- none -- between the original full-freight selling price of a timeshare & its current open-market value.

Full Disclosure: We gave away 4 -- four -- timeshares during the past 2 years, including 1 outstanding every-year 3BR-3BA Orlando timeshare & 2 nice triennial Kissimmee points timeshares. We preferred giving them away for nothing over trying to sell them for next to nothing. The fact that the original owners paid thousands for the deeds that we gave away el freebo is mox nix. (We bought'm all resale for nickels on the full-freight dollar.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Ridewithme38]

Thank you very much for the info! I'm confused a little bit by your comment of "The fair market value of many timeshare deeds, including plenty of really nice ones, is approximately zero.".

Since the timeshare deeds own the property, which has underlying value. Why not the timeshare owners sell the resort and get something back? For example, if the resort worths $10 million, and there are 1,000 timeshare deeds, each owner can get $10,000 by choosing to sell the property.

According to this(which seems like a low number to me:
http://resortresalesandrentals.com/timeshares-statistics.html

Average size of timeshare resort - 83 units
with 52 weeks owned on each unit that is around 4316 owners, so assuming 10million, thats $2316.96 per week...But the bigger problem is contacting and convincing all 4316 units to sell the resort

 

[Larry]

When you say your friend wants "$500 and you agree to take the contract over" are you saying that this was financed with payments to be taken over?

If that is the case how much is owed???? If money is owed, in all probability this has less than zero value.

 

[AwayWeGo]

With Timeshare Ownership, It's Not Realistic To Expect To Get Anything Much Back.

Thank you very much for the info! I'm confused a little bit by your comment of "The fair market value of many timeshare deeds, including plenty of really nice ones, is approximately zero.".

Since the timeshare deeds own the property, which has underlying value. Why not the timeshare owners sell the resort and get something back? For example, if the resort worths $10 million, and there are 1,000 timeshare deeds, each owner can get $10,000 by choosing to sell the property.

One Orlando timeshare with which I am semi-familiar (i.e., because I own an EEY deed there) has had to go to court against the county over the issue of exactly how much the property is worth for real estate tax purposes.

The tax man (as I understand it) figures the property is worth the number of units X the number of weeks X the full-freight price of timeshare weeks.

The sold-out resort's independent managers (i.e., the HOA, which is not affiliated with any timeshare company) figures the property is worth lots less, as demonstrated by the fact that when the deeds change hands on the open market, the price is usually no more than a couple of hundred bux, if that, not to mention how many are given away el freebo.

Apparently, after the tax appeals board sided with the resort, the tax man took the resort to court over the issue. After much pulling hauling & some strategic delays (by the tax man), the resort & the county reached some sort of reasonable settlement. Both sides gave a little. Both sides got a little.

In any case, regardless of the value of the underlying property (i.e., the acreage, the infrastructure, the buildings, the furnishings), the individual timeshare deeds in many, many cases are still worth just about zippity-doodah. Not only is there hardly anybody willing to pay money for them, even getting takers when you're offering to give them away scot free is no sure thing.

Liquidating a timeshare resort & selling everything off & divvying up the take amongst all the deeded owners is a virtual impossibility because the HOA lacks the power to do that on its own (even assuming they'd want to), & because the prospect of getting enough votes or proxies from a super-majority of owners is so formidable as to be likewise impossible.

The only reason timeshare ownership makes sense to us is that the way we do it, we get luxury timeshare vacation accommodations at roughly Motel 6 & Super 8 rates. Not only do we buy our timeshares resale for peanuts, but we also make heavy use of RCI's Last Call & Instant Exchange & sale-priced Extra Vacation Getaway deals.

Our (pardon the expression) "portfolio" of timeshare properties has dwindled down to 1 biennial 3BR-3BA unit & 1 triennial points unit. We also own shares equivalent to a standard-grade every-year 2BR unit at a foreign timeshare in a far-off land overseas -- but word is they're converting to non-timeshare vacation condos & we've heard nothing from them about the status of what we may or may not still own, so we consider that a non-factor till further notice.

I would not turn down the offer of a free timeshare if -- if -- it were at a nice resort in a desirable location that I like going to & that has reasonable maintenance fees. But I would not jump on it in the expectation that accepting the deed cheap or free would be any kind of financial bonanza. The opposite is more likely to be the case, because once my name is on the recorded deed, then I remain on the hook for those ongoing, everlasting, eternal timeshare maintenance fees forevermore, amen. I don't have to use the timeshare, but I do have to keep on paying the fees mox nix.

Best timeshare advice I know of is Look Before You Leap.

Good luck.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[kevinmn]

He bought the timeshare with cash. There is no finance payment. He wants to find someone who can take his timeshare contract and pay the maintainence fee from now on as he no longer uses the resort.

Some broker contacted him recently, they asked him for a $1000 fee to help him get rid of the timeshare for $1. He believes that his timeshare still worths thousands of dollars and blames the house market and the economic condition for the temporary decrease of the timeshare value. So he asks around to see if anybody is willing to take it for several hundred dollars now.

According to him, the value should come back when economy rebounds, but that is not what I learned from this forum so far. It looks that if I buy it with $500, I may have the same trouble to get rid of it even when house market comes back and it is hard to profit from this deal.

When you say your friend wants "$500 and you agree to take the contract over" are you saying that this was financed with payments to be taken over?

If that is the case how much is owed???? If money is owed, in all probability this has less than zero value.

 

[AwayWeGo]

That's About The Size Of It.

It looks that if I buy it with $500, I may have the same trouble to get rid of it even when house market comes back and it is hard to profit from this deal.

You catch on quick.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[kevinmn]

Thank you very much. I looked through several advertisements on TUG, the rental fee is often cheaper than the annual maintenance fee. So I can actually enjoy the resort without a life time contract. This is my biggest learning today. I will try to rent a resort instead of ordering a regular small hotel room with the similiar price for my future family trips.

Is TUG the best place to search and rent a timeshare?

Is timeshare renting just like living in a hotel room or do I need to sign more legal documents...?

You catch on quick.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[AwayWeGo]

Renta-Renta-Renta.

Is timeshare renting just like living in a hotel room or do I need to sign more legal documents...?

No special documents are required, but some timeshare owners who rent out their timeshares do put their renters through some documentary rigmarole -- get'm to sign rental agreements & pay deposits & I don't know what-all.

When we used to rent out our timeshare(s), we didn't bother with any of that. We just collected the money from the renters, then (when the money was in hand) we sent the renters the original (floating week) reservation slip, plus a copy of our note to the resort's front desk letting the resort know that our renters would be checking in for our reserved time instead of us.

That worked fine every time -- no problems & no hassles for anybody at either end.

We have never rented other people's timeshares directly from the owners -- only through RCI's Last Call deals, which are el cheapo last-minute rentals. (RCI charges tax on Last Call & Extra Vacation Getaway reservations, because they are rentals. By contrast, there is no tax on RCI exchange reservations.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[kevinmn]

Which website did you use to rent out your timeshares? It seems that RCI doesn't allow me to register since I'm not a timeshare owner with a resort participates the RCI system.

No special documents are required, but some timeshare owners who rent out their timeshares do put their renters through some documentary rigmarole -- get'm to sign rental agreements & pay deposits & I don't know what-all.

When we used to rent out our timeshare(s), we didn't bother with any of that. We just collected the money from the renters, then (when the money was in hand) we sent the renters the original (floating week) reservation slip, plus a copy of our note to the resort's front desk letting the resort know that our renters would be checking in for our reserved time instead of us.

That worked fine every time -- no problems & no hassles for anybody at either end.

We have never rented other people's timeshares directly from the owners -- only through RCI's Last Call deals, which are el cheapo last-minute rentals. (RCI charges tax on Last Call & Extra Vacation Getaway reservations, because they are rentals. By contrast, there is no tax on RCI exchange reservations.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[yumdrey]

redweek.com, myresortnetwork.com and TUG market place

 

[kevinmn]

Got it, thank you!

redweek.com, myresortnetwork.com and TUG market place

 

[ronparise]

The op does catch on quick..The value of a timeshare is not in the bricks and mortar and land. The value of a timeshare flows from its use. If I can rent something equivalent for less Than the timeshare has no value

 

[Cheryl20772]

Some broker contacted him recently, they asked him for a $1000 fee to help him get rid of the timeshare for $1. He believes that his timeshare still worths thousands of dollars and blames the house market and the economic condition for the temporary decrease of the timeshare value. So he asks around to see if anybody is willing to take it for several hundred dollars now.

The problem is related to the economy and to the fact that many resort sales persons have sold resorts to people who could not really afford them. IMO, anyone who has to finance one, can't really afford it. What has since happened, is the economy crashed, people lost jobs, prices went up and now these people can't afford their luxury or they can't pay the fees. Too many people are desperate to dump this obligation to anyone who can take it over. Opportunistic scammers have filled the gap by promising to take over the timeshare for a fee....

Now... the price of anything is determined by what any willing buyer in the open market will pay for it, right?

So, go to eBay and search for this timeshare. If it is there, see what the completed sales prices are that it has fetched. IF the market does ever recover from this, I think it is going to take a long, long time.

You may find out that $500 is too much to pay for that timeshare in today's market. It might be one of those that he will have to pay someone to take off his hands. It depends on which resort it is; whether it is a fixed week, or floating week, or points. It doesn't matter that it is near Disney. There is a problem down there of a glutted market...too many timeshares.

It's possible that the only great deal for that particular resort is to take it off his hands only if he is willing to pay the next years maintenance fees in advance for you. How much does he want to be rid of it? It's possible that it's one of the few resorts on the market that's worth paying several thousand dollars for. That's why you have to do some research.

It's very possible that the timeshare being offered is a rare gem. Possibly it will get you great RCI or II trades. That is something you need to learn about to help make a decision. It's possible you could use the resort to trade into other resorts that will give you many more interesting vacations.

You are doing things exactly the right thing by reading and asking questions before you commit your family to the future ongoing obligations of a timeshare.

Welcome to TUG!

 

[AwayWeGo]

Craig's List.

Which website did you use to rent out your timeshares?

Craig's List.

It seems that RCI doesn't allow me to register since I'm not a timeshare owner with a resort participates the RCI system.

That's 1 reason we remain (minimal) timeshare owners -- so that we can keep on doing Last Call & Instant Exchange & Extra Vacation Getaway, etc.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Ridewithme38]

It's very possible that the timeshare being offered is a rare gem. Possibly it will get you great RCI or II trades.
Welcome to TUG!

Are there still rare gems available? I mean don't get me wrong, i only bought a few months ago and i'm happy with what i bought, they're both in places i like to travel, one gets over 50TPU in RCI and the other has "Starwood priority" in II, BUT, i wouldn't have paid more then the $1 i paid for either one...and wouldn't consider them gems

I guess some still have resale value because of ROFR, but if the resort is buying back at $2500 and it sells for $2501, isn't that resort only worth $1?

 

[kevinmn]

Good info! Do you have an example of the resort on the market that worths paying several thousand dollars? I'm very curious to know.

From my quick research in this weekend, the best ranking resort on TUG is "Four Seasons Residence Club Aviara / Park Hyatt Aviara (FSA)". The sellers are asking for $2000+ to sell the timeshare. The best rental I saw was about $1900 for a week which has an annual maintainance fee of $2200, negative cash flow.

The problem is related to the economy and to the fact that many resort sales persons have sold resorts to people who could not really afford them. IMO, anyone who has to finance one, can't really afford it. What has since happened, is the economy crashed, people lost jobs, prices went up and now these people can't afford their luxury or they can't pay the fees. Too many people are desperate to dump this obligation to anyone who can take it over. Opportunistic scammers have filled the gap by promising to take over the timeshare for a fee....

Now... the price of anything is determined by what any willing buyer in the open market will pay for it, right?

So, go to eBay and search for this timeshare. If it is there, see what the completed sales prices are that it has fetched. IF the market does ever recover from this, I think it is going to take a long, long time.

You may find out that $500 is too much to pay for that timeshare in today's market. It might be one of those that he will have to pay someone to take off his hands. It depends on which resort it is; whether it is a fixed week, or floating week, or points. It doesn't matter that it is near Disney. There is a problem down there of a glutted market...too many timeshares.

It's possible that the only great deal for that particular resort is to take it off his hands only if he is willing to pay the next years maintenance fees in advance for you. How much does he want to be rid of it? It's possible that it's one of the few resorts on the market that's worth paying several thousand dollars for. That's why you have to do some research.

It's very possible that the timeshare being offered is a rare gem. Possibly it will get you great RCI or II trades. That is something you need to learn about to help make a decision. It's possible you could use the resort to trade into other resorts that will give you many more interesting vacations.

You are doing things exactly the right thing by reading and asking questions before you commit your family to the future ongoing obligations of a timeshare.

Welcome to TUG!

 

[MOXJO7282]

Thank you very much. I looked through several advertisements on TUG, the rental fee is often cheaper than the annual maintenance fee. So I can actually enjoy the resort without a life time contract. This is my biggest learning today. I will try to rent a resort instead of ordering a regular small hotel room with the similiar price for my future family trips.

Is TUG the best place to search and rent a timeshare?

Is timeshare renting just like living in a hotel room or do I need to sign more legal documents...?

Because of a glut of TSs to rent at reasonable prices in almost every vacation location there is virtually no reason to buy any TS, and certainly not an Orlando one. And this advice is coming from someone who owns Marriott 11 weeks.

The only reason to own, and why we originally purchased was because I wanted to go to Maui during a prime holiday week, President's week in February.

If you do want to regularly go on vacation during holiday, or prime summer/winter weeks that is the only time I personally would consider sending money to buy a TS.

And if Orlando, or similarly overbuillt areas , are your typical destination even holiday weeks can be rented reasonably so there is even less reason to buy there.

If you were just looking at this to flip this for profit, I'll say this about your friend. When he said he thought the value would return when the economy improves he is either really, really naive or knowingly is fibbing because any one with TS ownership should know TSs in Orlando will never go up in value more than marginally when the economy improves.

 

[Cheryl20772]

Good info! Do you have an example of the resort on the market that worths paying several thousand dollars? I'm very curious to know.

As I mentioned, look to eBay. Do a search for the word "timeshare". Then on the left side of the page find the box to check for Completed Listings. That will filter your search for those timeshares that have been offered for sale and the listing is closed. Now you can sort your search using the control near the top right in the gray bar to Sort by: Price highest first. Now pass over the ones with a red price because they did not sell. The ones with a green price sold for that price. Study this list and you will see what the market considers a valuable timeshare today.

Today I see that Marriott's Frenchman's Cove, St. Thomas, USVI, 2 BR 2 Bath Timeshare - GOLD week sold on Dec. 13 for $10,000. That is the timeshare that recently sold for the most money. I don't know what that timeshare initially may have sold for.

The next one that shows up green is 1.1MILLION WYNDHAM POINTS Gold Crown BONNET CREEK Timeshare RESALE which sold Dec. 17 for $9,997. This is a resort in Orlando which still have some value. How much? Well consider that the person who initially purchased 1.1 million Wyndham points probably paid the developer over $100,000 for them and all they sold for was $9,997.

The next green one is HGVC AT THE LAS VEGAS HILTON 7000 ANNUAL POINTS
which sold for $9,201.77. Someone who owns HGVC would have to tell you what the developer sells that for.

If your friend at work was offering you 1.1 million Wyndham points at Bonnet Creek for $500, I would say that's a real deal. But see, you have to know both the timeshares and the market to figure that out and 1.1 million Wyndham points is way more than you probably need or want for your vacationing use; so you would also need to understand how Wyndham ownership works.

Just study eBay and you will see what is considered valuable in the market. Then, when you see something that looks really good to you, search in the forum to see what the reviews say and search what the other owners have to say about that timeshare.

If you want to see what people are giving away on the market for $1 or even paying all fees and closing for, just reverse the sort by on your eBay search to show lowest price first. They don't start at $1. They start at $.01! The first one I see is THE MANHATTAN CLUB TIMESHARE FOR SALE - DEEDED - SLEEPS 4. Sold Dec. 11 for a penny. Was that a great deal? Manhattan Club has right of first refusal. I wonder if they will exercise it?

A great deal is determined by how valuable the timeshare is to you and your family to use that timeshare or trade with it to other timeshares.

 

[Carolinian]

While I agree that timeshare is not an investment, and that only a limited range of them are going to have any resale value, I would disagree that it is hotel-based systems that are most likely to retain value. Hotel systems may or may not exercise a right of first refusal in the future, so that is really a crap shoot.

The only system I am aware of that has a repurchase guarantee built into the contract is not a hotel system at all. It is the oldest timeshare developer in the world, Hapimag. With Hapimag if you have owned a mininum period (4 years?), Hapimag will buy back your week for a set percentage of the then current developer sale price (75%?).

As to timeshares with a real value, these are generally high season weeks where people own to use rather than exchanging and there is a limited supply of timeshare. Overbuilt, although nice, areas like Orlando or the Canary Islands do not fit in that niche.

Do not buy a TS as an investment, not even a speculative investment.
The only TS's that retain any value are hotel-systems that actively use a
right of first refusal, and even then, resale is barely 1/4 of retail prices.

They do not appreciate in value.

The only reason to purchase a TS is to use it regularly, as if a rental.
You may be able to rent for less, but there's a benefit to having your
own. It gives you a regular place to go (or trade), like a personal retreat.

 

[Carolinian]

eBay is a tiny portion of the timeshare resale market, and decidedly the low end of it. It is not a reliable indicator of the overall resale market as it only shows the low end. it is a great place for timeshare buyers but an awful place to sell your timeshare. I would never characterize eBay as ''the market'', especially since the PCC's started flooding it.

As I mentioned, look to eBay. Do a search for the word "timeshare". Then on the left side of the page find the box to check for Completed Listings. That will filter your search for those timeshares that have been offered for sale and the listing is closed. Now you can sort your search using the control near the top right in the gray bar to Sort by: Price highest first. Now pass over the ones with a red price because they did not sell. The ones with a green price sold for that price. Study this list and you will see what the market considers a valuable timeshare today.

Today I see that Marriott's Frenchman's Cove, St. Thomas, USVI, 2 BR 2 Bath Timeshare - GOLD week sold on Dec. 13 for $10,000. That is the timeshare that recently sold for the most money. I don't know what that timeshare initially may have sold for.

The next one that shows up green is 1.1MILLION WYNDHAM POINTS Gold Crown BONNET CREEK Timeshare RESALE which sold Dec. 17 for $9,997. This is a resort in Orlando which still have some value. How much? Well consider that the person who initially purchased 1.1 million Wyndham points probably paid the developer over $100,000 for them and all they sold for was $9,997.

The next green one is HGVC AT THE LAS VEGAS HILTON 7000 ANNUAL POINTS
which sold for $9,201.77. Someone who owns HGVC would have to tell you what the developer sells that for.

If your friend at work was offering you 1.1 million Wyndham points at Bonnet Creek for $500, I would say that's a real deal. But see, you have to know both the timeshares and the market to figure that out and 1.1 million Wyndham points is way more than you probably need or want for your vacationing use; so you would also need to understand how Wyndham ownership works.

Just study eBay and you will see what is considered valuable in the market. Then, when you see something that looks really good to you, search in the forum to see what the reviews say and search what the other owners have to say about that timeshare.

If you want to see what people are giving away on the market for $1 or even paying all fees and closing for, just reverse the sort by on your eBay search to show lowest price first. They don't start at $1. They start at $.01! The first one I see is THE MANHATTAN CLUB TIMESHARE FOR SALE - DEEDED - SLEEPS 4. Sold Dec. 11 for a penny. Was that a great deal? Manhattan Club has right of first refusal. I wonder if they will exercise it?

A great deal is determined by how valuable the timeshare is to you and your family to use that timeshare or trade with it to other timeshares.

 

[Cheryl20772]

eBay is a tiny portion of the timeshare resale market, and decidedly the low end of it. It is not a reliable indicator of the overall resale market as it only shows the low end. it is a great place for timeshare buyers but an awful place to sell your timeshare. I would never characterize eBay as ''the market'', especially since the PCC's started flooding it.

The OP is looking for a place to see great prices for buyers! That's why I pointed him there; certainly not to provide a place for his friend to sell we don't know what.

Aren't you saying that eBay is "the buyers' market"? I would expect that, if I find a timeshare that sold for a high price on Ebay, that was either an ignorant buyer; or it was probably a good deal for a smart buyer.

I think that the PCC have driven the prices so low on eBay that many good potential buyers suspect scam and are afraid to buy.

 

[theo]

You do indeed "get it"...

Got it, thank you!

Nice job on quickly and effectively separating fact from fantasy and processing the facts and information to reach the wise decision not to take this ownership.

Your co-worker is mistaken about any future miraculous rebound in value for his Orlando timeshare week. Regardless of what he may have paid previously and regardless of what he would like to believe differently, its' market value isn't going anywhere. Penny (...or free) Orlando timeshares are a dime a dozen --- and it will likely always be so. As your co-worker has learned, it's easy to buy, hard to sell and in the meantime, maintenance fees are annual and forever.