Four Seasons Scottsdale: Rentals Prohibited?

[echino]

I own a week at Four Seasons Scottsdale, purchased resale last year. I rented out my 2023 week for the first time. I have a direct agreement with the guest, money received, non-refundable, guest name changed. My guest called Four Seasons to confirm the reservation and told them they rented it from me.

I just got a call from Four Seasons saying they will cancel the guest certificate because renting is only allowed via their preferred broker, TRI West. They told me renting not via TRI west is prohibited!

What? Anyone heard anything like that? Any advice?

 

[dioxide45]

Ask them to show you where in the ownership/condo documents such a policy exists.

 

[echino]

Ask them to show you where in the ownership/condo documents such a policy exists.

I did ask. They told me they will email it to me. But so far nothing.

I read all the documents very carefully. Only rentals by the Association must go through TRI West. No such policy exists for owner rentals in any of the documents.

 

[echino]

This is ridiculous. The documents clearly state that the restriction only applies to rentals by the Association. I have not signed any rental agreement with the Association. Yet, they are still refusing to allow my rental.

 

[montygz]

It says The Association has the power to rent units to the public and to rent owner's units.

Perhaps they are interpreting this to read that the owner, therefore, does not have the power to do this.

I would not agree with that interpretation. It doesn't say "Only The Association."

Perhaps they don't like rentals and are trying to bully people into stopping. Perhaps it's just a misunderstanding. Perhaps there is some other thing in the contract that clarifies this.

Sorry you have to deal with this. I expect they just want you to go away, but you deserve a better answer than what they sent.

 

[echino]

I asked to escalate and received a call from a Regional Director, Residences. He repeated the same thing, that I cannot rent other than via TRI West. I asked where in the rules it says that, and he could not say, but basically told me he doesn't care what the rules say and they can do whatever they want as a management company. Unbelievable. I wrote to HOA Board, waiting what they will say.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

If the week can be rented then I am not sure it is actually legal that they can dictate "who" is allowed to rent it for you -- after all the week belongs to you. Sounds like a severe restriction of Free Trade.

I suppose if worst comes to worst you can still keep your tenant as long as TRI West gets "their" piece of the action. The question is what do they charge?

Have to wonder if some type of "kickback" is going on here.




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[montygz]

I would not settle for a phone call. I think they are still just trying to make you give up and go away.

I would ask for all their responses in writing so everything can be documented and then checked against the documents you signed and any other documents dealing with rentals and the powers of the association and board.

All the paperwork and agreements should be available to you as an owner.

All these rules should be clearly defined.

It is disappointing you are dealing with this. I hope you continue to raise questions and seek documents until you are satisfied.

 

[TravelTime]

I was almost going to purchase Four Seasons Costa Rica but decided against it because it is very expensive to own and they do not allow rentals. I own at Four Seasons Aviara but I have only deposited using ThirdHome and Elite Alliance. I did not have any problems with that but I paid an extra fee per week to be allowed to exchange. I have never rented a week at FSA but now I am wondering if they allow direct rentals.

 

[hurnik]

If the week can be rented then I am not sure it is actually legal that they can dictate "who" is allowed to rent it for you -- after all the week belongs to you. Sounds like a severe restriction of Free Trade.

I suppose if worst comes to worst you can still keep your tenant as long as TRI West gets "their" piece of the action. The question is what do they charge?

Have to wonder if some type of "kickback" is going on here.




.

Almost as bad as Hilton saying we can't deposit any of our weeks to any exchange company other than RCI. (unless it's an affiliate resort, in which case, it can be deposited into Interval). Even though there's nothing I can find in the docs that state that.

 

[escanoe]

Almost as bad as Hilton saying we can't deposit any of our weeks to any exchange company other than RCI. (unless it's an affiliate resort, in which case, it can be deposited into Interval). Even though there's nothing I can find in the docs that state that.

There are several things like this and the main subject of the post that I do not believe would withstand competition/anti-trust scrutiny … but the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is not going to spend resources on this and lawsuits challenging developers/property managers would be expensive and there is not enough incentive.

 

[pacman777]

File a written complaint with State Attorney General for deceptive business practices and also BBB

 

[TUGBrian]

wow, that is a huge stretch to interpret that paragraph to cover frbo rentals!

id absolutely file a complaint with the ags office as well as whatever entity covers homeowners associations in california/arizona? at least in florida they are all corporations, and as such regulated by the DPBR. perhaps a similar state regulator exists in cali? Id also think this may venture into real estate law.

I think mario and triwest are good people, they have been supporters of TUG for many years even dating back to before I was around, but this seems terribly unfair.

I have absolutely no issue with a resort having a preferred broker, but to indicate owners MUST use a broker instead of diy is absurd.

 

[TravelTime]

Maybe you can contact Triwest and see what they say before filing a complaint with a governmental body. They know all the contracts and could probably explain what is going on with FSA. For FSCR, it is in the contract that it can’t be rented at all, not through them or anyone else. This seems really prohibitive.

 

[pacman777]

Maybe you can contact Triwest and see what they say before filing a complaint with a governmental body. They know all the contracts and could probably explain what is going on with FSA. For FSCR, it is in the contract that it can’t be rented at all, not through them or anyone else. This seems really prohibitive.

That’s like asking the fox if someone else can watch the henhouse

 

[TravelTime]

That’s like asking the fox if someone else can watch the henhouse

They know what the contracts say. I guess he could ask what the rules are if he purchases at FS Scottsdale. Just to find out what they say. It is just a start to find out the rules and why.

I just sent an email to FSA to find out what they say. I just realized that the OP is an owner at Scottsdale. In any case, I am asking about FSA since I own there. I will be curious as to what they say.

 

[TUGBrian]

ha, yes i also assumed aviara/cali...vs scottsdale.

pm sent

 

[TUGBrian]

Maybe you can contact Triwest and see what they say before filing a complaint with a governmental body. They know all the contracts and could probably explain what is going on with FSA. For FSCR, it is in the contract that it can’t be rented at all, not through them or anyone else. This seems really prohibitive.

as has been explained to me the actual CC&Rs / governing documents for FSCR prohibit rentals period. that is not the case for FSA/FSS

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I heard that the HGVC Elara adopted a similar stand (but don't own there so cannot confirm). This appears in violation of deeded owner property rights, and overreach by the HOA.

If this is the Carlsbad resort, California is a consumer friendly state, and has led the nation in pro-consumer legislation. It has some of the most consumer friendly legislation toward walking away from a timeshare. Filing a complaint to the state would be a friendly ear to such restrictive complaints. Arizona, not so much.

 

[TravelTime]

For FSA, Owner Services responded as follows:

You are able to post your week through any third-party rental company of your choice (Vrbo, RedWeek, TriWest)

Once you find a renter, all we require is a Guest Authorization Form.

Please note, any guest using your assigned unit without your occupancy will be charged a nightly resort fee of $40.00 (plus applicable taxes and fees) upon check out. Should you wish to pay for nightly resort fee for your guests, Owner Services will be happy to email you a secure canary link to collect credit card for payment.

 

[TravelTime]

I wonder why FSS is different.

 

[TUGBrian]

have been made aware this is most likely due to the new transient tax the city of scottsdale now applies to timeshare owners/guests and how its collected.

more details on this situation will be made available once we are able to sort out this specific transaction. The parties involved with assisting with this asked not to be named at this time while they make efforts to facilitate this transaction and sort out a few details to make clear to FSS owners who wish to rent moving forward.

 

[echino]

have been made aware this is most likely due to the new transient tax the city of scottsdale now applies to timeshare owners/guests and how its collected.

Except it's not what they told me. They clearly told me owners are not allowed to rent other than via their broker, it's not new, and it has always been like that. Taxes were not mentioned. I was told it's for "protection" for all owners.

Looks like they are now looking for an excuse and are trying to justify it using a new tax issue.

 

[emeryjre]

The tax issue regarding rentals in Scottsdale has been around for 4-5 years.
VRBO and AirBnb are required to collect the tax on rentals in Scottsdale
Koala does not collect the tax, at least the did not for my 2022 rentals at SDO
I have no idea about your situation at FSS, but I understand your frustration
Good luck with an equitable resolution

 

[TravelTime]

I do not understand how the tax issue would affect how owners can rent their units. They can collect the taxes at check in. Hawaii adds it to the bill.