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Former Wyndham Sales Rep Answering Questions

HitchHiker71

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Have you heard of Wyndham taking back any CWA contracts? I may have a 126K one I'm looking to dump now that I've picked up something else with higher points.

Yes, Wyndham has taken back CWA contracts through Certified Exit.
 
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Thanks for the inside scoop.

We paid 18K for 105,000 points. We were told we could get a week or longer in a resort for those points. We soon realized that was BS. We can get 4 nights somewhere. We can get the same 4 nights on Kayak for less than our annual fee. We'll never save enough to recover our 18K.

In one post you said "The whole purpose/ process to sell to an owner is "Finding the pain". Make them feel they were sold wrong package before and show them how you can fix it without costing them anymore money."

How do you fix it without costing more money? What should we be asking for?
Thanks
 

cbyrne1174

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100% resale!!
Thanks for the inside scoop.

We paid 18K for 105,000 points. We were told we could get a week or longer in a resort for those points. We soon realized that was BS. We can get 4 nights somewhere. We can get the same 4 nights on Kayak for less than our annual fee. We'll never save enough to recover our 18K.

In one post you said "The whole purpose/ process to sell to an owner is "Finding the pain". Make them feel they were sold wrong package before and show them how you can fix it without costing them anymore money."

How do you fix it without costing more money? What should we be asking for?
Thanks
You will never be able to get back the money you spent. You can default/foreclose on it if you have to. You can also learn the PIC plus program and get a cheap resale 3 bedroom deed to enroll into PIC to be at VIP bronze for another 49,000 points. A 3 bedroom PIC is worth 254,000, so you'd have 408,000 developer points to work with, which is enough for a few weeks.

I don't think bronze is worth the $8,000-9,000 pricetag on the 49,000 points for me because the benefits only apply to developer points (I'm 100% resale), but since there's not way to undo your purchase, it might be better to just do that so you at least get some VIP benefits with the high price tag of your original purchase. Bronze at least lets you have 15% off, 1 extra housekeeping token for short stays, suite upgrades at 2 weeks out (if available), and 1 reciprical ARP reservation at 11 months for hard to book places like Clearwater.

If I were to buy 49,000 points, I would only be able to get the VIP benefits on those points plus the 254,000 PIC points. My 805,000 resale points won't be eligible for any of the benefits above, hence why I don't bother with it.
 
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Thanks.
Very confusing program. With Pic + I would need to buy a week at some 3br timeshare and then flip it into Wyndham? Is that correct?
 

bnoble

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PIC’s intended purpose is to overcome “I already own some other timeshare” objections on the sales floor. But enterprising TUGgers realized it could also be a way to obtain a discount on a particular VIP level.

Whether that discounted price is or is not a good deal is unclear to me.
 

cbyrne1174

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Thanks.
Very confusing program. With Pic + I would need to buy a week at some 3br timeshare and then flip it into Wyndham? Is that correct?
Yes, if you need an example just look at the 4 BR at Massanutten on Timeshare Nation (free). The MF are $959. You pay $89 to covert it into Wyndham points plus the program fee($0.70 per thousand), so it's $4.83 per thousand in maintenance fees and the 254,000 points have VIP benefits.
 

RowdyRiner

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Thanks for the inside scoop.

We paid 18K for 105,000 points. We were told we could get a week or longer in a resort for those points. We soon realized that was BS. We can get 4 nights somewhere. We can get the same 4 nights on Kayak for less than our annual fee. We'll never save enough to recover our 18K.

In one post you said "The whole purpose/ process to sell to an owner is "Finding the pain". Make them feel they were sold wrong package before and show them how you can fix it without costing them anymore money."

How do you fix it without costing more money? What should we be asking for?
Thanks
That's the point. They don't. They tell you they can fix it without cost but it does cost money.
 

HitchHiker71

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National Harbor Resale (689k)
That's the point. They don't. They tell you they can fix it without cost but it does cost money.

And most of the time, it doesn't actually fix anything, other than lining Wyndham's sales and marketing pockets for the most part. The vast majority of the costs associated with buying a developer timeshare are to fund the sales and marketing engine itself and to fund future property development - the latter of which has slowly been trailing off over time with preference toward acquiring existing timeshare properties on the cheap and then attempting to refurbish them after the fact.
 
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And most of the time, it doesn't actually fix anything, other than lining Wyndham's sales and marketing pockets for the most part. The vast majority of the costs associated with buying a developer timeshare are to fund the sales
And most of the time, it doesn't actually fix anything, other than lining Wyndham's sales and marketing pockets for the most part. The vast majority of the costs associated with buying a developer timeshare are to fund the sales and marketing engine itself and to fund future property development - the latter of which has slowly been trailing off over time with preference toward acquiring existing timeshare properties on the cheap and then attempting to refurbish them after the fact.
 
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Yes, if you need an example just look at the 4 BR at Massanutten on Timeshare Nation (free). The MF are $959. You pay $89 to covert it into Wyndham points plus the program fee($0.70 per thousand), so it's $4.83 per thousand in maintenance fees and the 254,000 points have VIP benefits.
Thanks for the example but I don't think we want another 959/month payment.
 
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We stayed in Atlanta this past weekend. Cost of half our points for 2 nights. We were paid 100.00 to go to a presentation, which I requested to be private. Two salesmen basically admitted that 105K points we paid 18K for is useless. They said we could have bought enough for VIP for the same 18K/75/month so I thought they might give it to us. ha. When they came back they offered us another 400 points for something like 35,000, after we told them from the start we were not spending any more money. We walked out. They laughed.

I'm was thinking I could still enjoy a few nights a year at a discount with the 900.00 MF, ignoring the 18K that's gone for good, but we'll never enjoy being reminded of the money we lost while on vacation.

Do the guys selling points on EBAY make any sense?
 

cbyrne1174

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We stayed in Atlanta this past weekend. Cost of half our points for 2 nights. We were paid 100.00 to go to a presentation, which I requested to be private. Two salesmen basically admitted that 105K points we paid 18K for is useless. They said we could have bought enough for VIP for the same 18K/75/month so I thought they might give it to us. ha. When they came back they offered us another 400 points for something like 35,000, after we told them from the start we were not spending any more money. We walked out. They laughed.

I'm was thinking I could still enjoy a few nights a year at a discount with the 900.00 MF, ignoring the 18K that's gone for good, but we'll never enjoy being reminded of the money we lost while on vacation.

Do the guys selling points on EBAY make any sense?
That's where I got all of my points (eBay). Don't buy anymore developer points unless you plan to add a PIC with it first. You have to own the PIC first in order to get the deal. Almost all of the VIP people on here did it that way because the 959/year in MF I quoted is cheaper than owning almost anywhere. There are only a handful of locations that have MF less than 4.83 per thousand (959/year).
 

paxsarah

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They said we could have bought enough for VIP for the same 18K/75/month so I thought they might give it to us.
The only way this could have been true is if you PIC'ed one or two non-Wyndham weeks as described above. You would of course also need to pay MFs on the PIC week(s), but you would have many more points available to you in Wyndham. You could have done that with the same points purchase you already made. (If this wasn't what the salespeople were referring to, then they were flat-out lying - or talking about temporary VIP via bonus points).
 

paxsarah

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That's where I got all of my points (eBay). Don't buy anymore developer points unless you plan to add a PIC with it first. You have to own the PIC first in order to get the deal. Almost all of the VIP people on here did it that way because the 959/year in MF I quoted is cheaper than owning almost anywhere. There are only a handful of locations that have MF less than 4.83 per thousand (959/year).
When I toy with the idea of PIC'ing in two weeks with a small retail purchase, the math I run is entirely based on MF savings, as the VIP benefits currently would never make up for the purchase price in my situation (assuming I would land at silver).
 

cbyrne1174

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When I toy with the idea of PIC'ing in two weeks with a small retail purchase, the math I run is entirely based on MF savings, as the VIP benefits currently would never make up for the purchase price in my situation (assuming I would land at silver).
Same here. Also a lot of the VIP savings you get with Wyndham, you can get similar saving percentages with Marriott exchanges. I was able to exchange my studio for a 2 bedroom last summer at Lakeshore Reserve for $900 for the week when the MF are $2400. I'm currently returning 3 of my deeds to Wyndham and picking up more Marriott once the market tanks even more.
 

Jethro37

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Question around the piggyback and PIC discussion.

My parents have had a 3 bedroom timeshare in Kissimmee FL for years. we aren’t good at using the interval international trades on it so utilization is poor.

Through in large part to insights gained here I was able to secure and utilize redial points at Bali Hai and Canterbury that get us great maintenance fees for our travel needs.

I clued my parents into a 254k Bali hai resale and now they have Wyndham points that they are using.

The PIC deal is the one thing I’ve had an interest in considerering to get them more Wyndham points available that they would actually make use of.

I’m guessing the Fairfield Glade piggyback might mean they could convert more points to developer along with their PIC?

It sounds like the downside is the MFs would be much worse than Bali hai and perhaps CWA which to me is a major factor as it’s the cost you and your decedents must live with.

Would y’all see the piggyback making sense for PIC or are they better off just making a small purchase? Is a purchase necessary at all for PIC or is that just if you want points to be developer?

Thank you for your perspectives and collective wisdom.
 

lotus921v

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Wyndham South Shore, Wyndham Bali Hai, Wyndham Shearwater, Worldmark, Regal Vistas at Massanutten, Marriott Grand Chateau
Same here. Also a lot of the VIP savings you get with Wyndham, you can get similar saving percentages with Marriott exchanges. I was able to exchange my studio for a 2 bedroom last summer at Lakeshore Reserve for $900 for the week when the MF are $2400. I'm currently returning 3 of my deeds to Wyndham and picking up more Marriott once the market tanks even more.

What are you using as your metric to determine a good time to buy?
 

cbyrne1174

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What are you using as your metric to determine a good time to buy?
When I can get Grand Chateau for $1500 ish. I'm probably going to try for a baby in the next year or two so I'm in no rush to need more weeks.
 

Jethro37

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Is there any benefit to a salesman going through a presentation but not making the sale? (ie meeting quotas, positive review, etc..?)

Also how extensive are the notes you keep on each owner? Does it depend on the person keying them in? Is that a thing?
 

troy12n

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@Jethro37

Question around the piggyback and PIC discussion.

My parents have had a 3 bedroom timeshare in Kissimmee FL for years. we aren’t good at using the interval international trades on it so utilization is poor.

Through in large part to insights gained here I was able to secure and utilize redial points at Bali Hai and Canterbury that get us great maintenance fees for our travel needs.

I clued my parents into a 254k Bali hai resale and now they have Wyndham points that they are using.

The PIC deal is the one thing I’ve had an interest in considerering to get them more Wyndham points available that they would actually make use of.
You can't PIC with a timeshare that exchanges in II, so in your example, it's a moot point... you have to PIC a timeshare that exchanges in RCI, and RCI weeks only. If it's another timeshare exchange (II, etc) or is a timeshare enrolled in RCI Points (not weeks), you cannot PIC it...
 

RowdyRiner

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Is there any benefit to a salesman going through a presentation but not making the sale? (ie meeting quotas, positive review, etc..?)

Also how extensive are the notes you keep on each owner? Does it depend on the person keying them in? Is that a thing?
Same as any other sales job. Sure, you might learn from your mistakes but you didn't make any money. Only notes are about account activity owner has done or called in about. You can't keep personal notes regarding Sales interactions.
 

WManning

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And most of the time, it doesn't actually fix anything, other than lining Wyndham's sales and marketing pockets for the most part. The vast majority of the costs associated with buying a developer timeshare are to fund the sales and marketing engine itself and to fund future property development - the latter of which has slowly been trailing off over time with preference toward acquiring existing timeshare properties on the cheap and then attempting to refurbish them after the fact.
Another purchase to fix the problem only compounds the pain.
 

DaKats

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I've read the entire 9 pages. There is a ton of collective great information here. Lots of acronyms here and I am a newbie to the site, but I have been to a few presentations.
Here's the scenario:

I have legit access (transferring deeds) to convert deeded weeks from Shell to points at Wyndham. If I do the conversion, I will be at the Founder's level. The weeks were bought as resale, I think, but during the last presentations they shared that everything would convert and I would be at the Founders level. Several sales people had 'jaw dropping' responses to the points I would have. I assumed that was a sales tactic, but I do believe them when they said I would be at founders level.

Question/Confirmation 1: What is the cheapest way I can buy the points I need to convert these weeks to gain these VIP benefits? Is the only way via retail at one of the presentations? It seems there are other ways which might be cheaper but result in all of the same bonus things. I think I read about HitchHiker71 saying she'd user her "insert the program here" to try to get a spot at the new Grandy CO resort. And that "insert the program here" was only available if purchased at Wyndham directly. (And I would love to go to that Granby resort, too!) I didn't understand the Piggy back thing, but is it worth it to travel to the one place that is doing that?

Question 2: Once I have all these points, can I reserve specific weeks, then 'sell' them myself on a site like TUG2? Is that what the guest check in is? I know I have to report the revenue - no problem there.

I am learning a ton here. Thanks everyone!
Thanks in advance.
Please discuss. :)
 
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