Forget Max, new new thing is Trust Points

[dayooper]

Technically, HC owners, they did away with the "b", are also HGV owners. HGV is the umbrella company that HVC, HGVC, and HC are part of. @CalGalTraveler can provide her input. She owns in both HGVC and HC.

Always reminds me of this scene.

 

[HuskerATL]

Always reminds me of this scene.

Great show ... My job has so many acronyms that I say them without even thinking about it.... And my wife just looks at me like, "what?"

 

[dayooper]

I've read the rules, just having trouble understanding the terminology and reconciling it with the intended appeal of a non-exclusive bHC deed. Non-exclusive bHC deeds come with more points, but it sounds like many don't have a home week advantage, and bHC owners at those non-exclusive resorts will have to compete directly with HGV owners using the same nine month booking window for bHC suites. Seems odd that they wouldn't have a carveout at all bHC properties to give bHC owners a little bit of a booking edge over HGV owners. Is the higher cost in points alone supposed to deter HGV owners from competing with bHC owners for bHC suites?

The original idea of the bHC was set up for short stays in urban areas. Spend a night or two in an urban area. This is the reason these resorts were set up like they were. Los Cabos, Charleston and the Japan resorts are not meant for short stays. They are meant for week long vacation stays and will need club bookings to keep them full.

The bHC resorts are all supposedly on the top end of the luxury scale. This is important as they get more money from Hilton when someone rents them from the Hilton website. The designation means everything. The former Embarc properties were designated HGVC instead of HVC by Hilton Hotels as they can get more money in cash reservations from Hilton. They can get even more from bHC properties. When HGVC was promoting the DRI merger. . . Errrrr, purchase, this was part of their presentation:

Notice the bHC aligns with the top 3 Hilton brands.

As to why someone would purchase bHC deeds? Why do some people purchase BMW over Ford or Buick? There those that purchase enough for elite (or whatever the new Max tiers are called) for the status.

 

[HuskerATL]

Here is the other slide from that investor deck that talks about it, https://s27.q4cdn.com/757306400/files/doc_presentations/HGV-Overview-Deck-June-2023.pdf .

 

[ernststarhemberg]

Need an acquisition to corner the mid-upper-upper-upscale market. Just to be sure.

 

[HuskerATL]

Need an acquisition to corner the mid-upper-upper-upscale market. Just to be sure.

then you need HCNY.....or I guess that would be the upper-upper-upscale...

 

[dioxide45]

bHC deeds don't have a home week, either, but at least the bHC club rules (for now) are vague about renting out stays. The restriction for bHC points is from renting out suites such that it "creates a pattern deemed commercial activity," something like that.

Leaves a lot open for interpretation, but the implication here is solidly that renting suites is permitted, to a point... Curious how long that language will last!

Terminology should now really be aHC, not bHC. I understand that HGV got rid of "by" when they introduced Max? But all the non HC properties are now aHGVC. So as mentioned, just using HC would work too.

 

[HuskerATL]

Terminology should now really be aHC, not bHC. I understand that HGV got rid of "by" when they introduced Max?

Yes, it is just HC now.

 

[Zenichiro]

We need a stickied acronyms list!

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

THE HAWAII COLLECTION includes only 3 Hawaii properties

…

One thing both my husband and I noted was that the “Hawaii collection” only contains three timeshares that were actually in Hawaii— the Modern in Honolulu, Kaanapali Beach club on Maui, and a 3rd on Kauai. The rest of the timeshares in that collection were on the mainland USA, including Nevada and I think Utah.

That is correct. When Sunterra (before Diamond) created the original Hawaii trust, it was just the properties on Maui and Kauai. Later Sunterra added a Sedona property, to create more trust inventory. When Diamond arrived, some Las Vegas inventory was added as well.

With Sunterra, one concept was that the Hawaii properties were more upscale than the Sunterra mainland properties. So they could sell into the Hawaii trust at a higher price than mainland.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I just read on the DRI forum that you cannot rent out your Trust Points. But you can rent out your deeded week.

Re the points, I'm not sure of that. That would depend on the language that in the trust documents.

It is clear, though, that if you are a member of the Club, you cannot rent anything. When you join the Club, you surrender to the Club your individual usage and reservation rights to the Club for as long as you remain a member of the Club. And the Club prohibits rental of any reservation.

 

[HuskerATL]

When you join the Club, you surrender to the Club

Like surrendering to the Borg?

 

[dayooper]

Yes, it is just HC now.

Terminology should now really be aHC, not bHC. I understand that HGV got rid of "by" when they introduced Max? But all the non HC properties are now aHGVC. So as mentioned, just using HC would work too.

As long as HGVC has the NYC property The Hilton Club, there needs to some sort of delineation between the 2 so HC would be very confusing. aHC would work, but it’s bHC seems to be easier for me. I’ll change I’d everybody wants me to.

 

[HuskerATL]

As long as HGVC has the NYC property The Hilton Club, there needs to some sort of delineation between the 2 so HC would be very confusing. aHC would work, but it’s bHC seems to be easier for me. I’ll change I’d everybody wants me to.

I am just saying that is how Hilton has changed it. It is only Hilton Club now. Not "a Hilton Club" or "by Hilton Club".... Just "Hilton Club".

 

[dioxide45]

I was

I am just saying that is how Hilton has changed it. It is only Hilton Club now. Not "a Hilton Club" or "by Hilton Club".... Just "Hilton Club".

I was looking at the listings. I suppose that is where some of my confusion came in. HGV does just call them Hilton Vacation Club, Hilton Grand Vacations Club and Hilton Club, but in the listings they put an "a" in there. Except for the Embarc resorts, in those cases it is "Hilton Grand Vacations Club" before the location. At least for Whistler, but not so in the case of Blue Mountain.

 

[HuskerATL]

I was

I was looking at the listings. I suppose that is where some of my confusion came in. HGV does just call them Hilton Vacation Club, Hilton Grand Vacations Club and Hilton Club, but in the listings they put an "a" in there. Except for the Embarc resorts, in those cases it is "Hilton Grand Vacations Club" before the location. At least for Whistler, but not so in the case of Blue Mountain.
View attachment 79191View attachment 79192View attachment 79193View attachment 79194

I haven't seen the listing but in the investor slides and in the booking screen they don't use a or by...... We all know either way though so it really doesn't matter if it is labeled a or by or nothing.

 

[Eric B]

Terminology should now really be aHC, not bHC. I understand that HGV got rid of "by" when they introduced Max? But all the non HC properties are now aHGVC. So as mentioned, just using HC would work too.

I haven't seen the listing but in the investor slides and in the booking screen they don't use a or by...... We all know either way though so it really doesn't matter if it is labeled a or by or nothing.

There may be some truth and logic to that, but the fact is that the points I receive annually from my ownership at The Quin and The District are labeled as "By Hilton Club Points" on the owners' website. The initialism "bHC" relates to what the points are called by HGVC, though we could quibble about the capitalization. If you look at the Dashboard view as an owner of one of the by/a Hilton Club resorts you'll see a listing that starts out with the title "By Hilton Club Points Summary" and another with the title "Club Currency Summary". The Club Rules use the term "by Hilton Club Priority" for the reciprocal window for certain of the bHC resorts. Of course, they're a bit inconsistent and call them all "ClubPoints" in the rules.

The other thing I would note is that it's a slippery slope to go renaming these things. The ClubPoints used at The Hilton Club could wind up getting called THC points....

 

[youppi]

That is correct. When Sunterra (before Diamond) created the original Hawaii trust, it was just the properties on Maui and Kauai. Later Sunterra added a Sedona property, to create more trust inventory. When Diamond arrived, some Las Vegas inventory was added as well.

With Sunterra, one concept was that the Hawaii properties were more upscale than the Sunterra mainland properties. So they could sell into the Hawaii trust at a higher price than mainland.

No. Sunterra never added Sedona property to the HI Collection.

DRI acquired Sunterra in 2007 (this is one of many links about the acquisition https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/diamond-resorts-closes-sunterra-deal/).

Sedona and Las Vegas properties were added to the HI Collection in 2008.

From the 2007 HI Collection financial document, https://owners.diamondresorts.com/w...508Diamond Resorts Hawaii Collection 2007.pdf, there were only 2 resorts in the HI Collection on December 31, 2007.

From the 2008 HI Collection financial document, https://owners.diamondresorts.com/w...Name=20090917Hawaii Collection 2008 Audit.pdf, on December 31, 2008 there were 4 resorts in the HI Collection (the 2 Hawaii original + the 2 mainland resorts).

 

[HuskerATL]

There may be some truth and logic to that, but the fact is that the points I receive annually from my ownership at The Quin and The District are labeled as "By Hilton Club Points" on the owners' website. The initialism "bHC" relates to what the points are called by HGVC, though we could quibble about the capitalization. If you look at the Dashboard view as an owner of one of the by/a Hilton Club resorts you'll see a listing that starts out with the title "By Hilton Club Points Summary" and another with the title "Club Currency Summary". The Club Rules use the term "by Hilton Club Priority" for the reciprocal window for certain of the bHC resorts. Of course, they're a bit inconsistent and call them all "ClubPoints" in the rules.

The other thing I would note is that it's a slippery slope to go renaming these things. The ClubPoints used at The Hilton Club could wind up getting called THC points....

They tend to have the "a" or nothing on most pages/documents:

Here is how the are named in the HGV booking screen:

Here is how they are labeled on the development site map, https://www.hiltongrandvacations.co.../our-destinations/about-us-map-file-51122.pdf

Here is how they are named in the Club Rules:

 

[Eric B]

They tend to have the "a" or nothing on most pages/documents:

Here is how the are named in the HGV booking screen:
View attachment 79195

Here is how they are labeled on the development site map, https://www.hiltongrandvacations.co.../our-destinations/about-us-map-file-51122.pdf
View attachment 79196

Here is how they are named in the Club Rules:
View attachment 79197

Understood, but that’s not how they named the associated points.

 

[brp]

Great show ... My job has so many acronyms that I say them without even thinking about it.... And my wife just looks at me like, "what?"

We need a stickied acronyms list!

Except that most of these are initialisms and not acronyms. So, if we're going to categorize these, we should, at least, get our terminology correct

Cheers.

 

[brp]

then you need HCNY.....or I guess that would be the upper-upper-upscale...

Not sure I agree. Having owned HCNY, sold it back to HGVC and then bought W. 57th resale, I'd say that HCNY is on a par with W. 57th, maybe a half step below due to the elevators and crowds. Certainly not an upper level, though.

Cheers.

 

[HuskerATL]

Understood, but that’s not how they named the associated points.

I guess only HC owners would see that though.

 

[HuskerATL]

Not sure I agree. Having owned HCNY, sold it back to HGVC and then bought W. 57th resale, I'd say that HCNY is on a par with W. 57th, maybe a half step below due to the elevators and crowds. Certainly not an upper level, though.

Cheers.

I am just saying that is how it is supposed to be...more exclusive, even if the property is about the same as the others.

 

[Eric B]

I guess only HC owners would see that though.

… you mean bHC owners, right…?