Fires on Maui and in Lahaina

[JIMinNC]

No, there's nothing wrong with that. But when I talk to the old aunties who have watched nearly a century unfold, they're unequivocal -- things were better decades ago when locals could afford the payments, see a doctor, live in the town they also worked in. That isn't happening today. Where I live, people are commuting the length of the island because they can't afford to live where the jobs are. If I had to make that commute every day, I'd buy a plane. That's nuts that people are forced to drive 150 miles daily -- on an island where gas is $5.50 a gallon.

The high-density tourist-everything is good for Wyland (I have nothing against him, I've known him since my Key West days). But it isn't good for residents. People who live across the state have been making their feelings known for years. (And I truly don't want to hear about the poor filipino housekeepers who will be out of a job if we reduce tourist numbers -- what a crock. There's more work than there are people to do it. That's part of the problem.) The pendulum has swung way too far in the direction of mass tourism. And if residents want to throttle it back, I don't blame them one bit. We can find a happy medium between 5 cruise ships and 300 airplanes each day, and the island of Niihau. Anyone who says otherwise is guilty of binary thinking.

I don’t disagree that the pendulum may have swung too far toward mass tourism. We can see a big difference from when we first started going to Maui over 30 years ago. Finding a middle ground would be fine with me. I might even prefer that to the status quo. The tourists we see now are so much less respectful of other people than three decades ago.

Also, where we own a vacation condo in Hilton Head island, we experience the same thing. Our condo complex is 90% short term rentals. We are one of the few owners that don’t rent our unit. The tourists on vacation can be obnoxious for sure (you have no idea how bad they can be), but you know what? We accept it, because we can see the ocean from our HHI balcony. Can’t do that in Charlotte.

As far as the old Aunties are concerned, the area where our subdivision is located used to be small horse farms and cattle farms. Now those horse and cattle farms are subdivisions with houses that range from $800,000 to many millions. The old Aunties here say life was better in the good old days too, but their neighbors’ heirs sold their farms to housing developers. That is their right. So, our neighborhood used to be a cattle farm, but we have very rich soil!

Times change. Values change. That’s OK.

 

[ScoopKona]

The tourists on vacation can be obnoxious for sure (you have no idea how bad they can be),

I wouldn't be so sure. My permanent addresses have been in the Florida Keys, Las Vegas and Hawaii. Nothing else. I don't know what it's like to be an adult in a non-tourist town. Never tried it.

I don't get to escape the obnoxious tourists. I have no "Charlotte" which I can skedaddle to. That's the difference. You deal with it for a week or two. It never ends for the residents of the tourist towns. There are loads of perks, sure. But "dealing with tourists 24/7/365" is definitely not one of them.

I'm insulated, and therefore not complaining. I don't have it all that bad. I only have to deal with the tourist crush if I choose to go out. And I can time it for optimal tourist avoidance. But I listen to my neighbors -- particularly the octogenarians. They're the best resource I have. And their first-hand experiences of "this is how it was before statehood; this is how it was just after statehood; this is how it was 30 years ago; and this is how it is now" is perspective I cannot get anywhere else.

I want my neighbors to get what they want. Why? It's more pleasant to live among people who are happy, or at least content. People here aren't happy -- not unless they own an art gallery or a real estate brokerage. Tourism doesn't even constitute "a living" for most people. Meanwhile, I'm listening to reports of "what do we do with the displaced?" In an area with hundreds of nearby resorts. Why nobody in charge can put 2+2 together using hotels and timeshares just proves that they still aren't taking this seriously.

 

[HGVC Lover]

Times change. Values change. That’s OK.

What you glaringly fail to understand is that the Hawaii nation does not support times or their values being changed to support tourism.
They support their culture being understood, respected and passed on intact to future generations. Let's hope they are able to have Lahaina rebuilt so that it promotes and supports their life style and not the life style of tourist wanting to have fun and take home some souvenirs like Wyland art.

 

[HereAndThere]

Consider making a donation through a reputable agency to help support those devastated by the fire. Even small amounts add up.

Just a reminder to check with your employer for matching donations. My husband's work matched the donations I made yesterday.

Also, I was planning to visit in October. I'm hoping MVC will donate it if I ask. Given the infrastructure issues with water alone, the area will be far from ready then. It's only 4 nights, but every little bit should help!

 

[JIMinNC]

I wouldn't be so sure. My permanent addresses have been in the Florida Keys, Las Vegas and Hawaii. Nothing else. I don't know what it's like to be an adult in a non-tourist town. Never tried it.

I don't get to escape the obnoxious tourists. I have no "Charlotte" which I can skedaddle to. That's the difference. You deal with it for a week or two. It never ends for the residents of the tourist towns. There are loads of perks, sure. But "dealing with tourists 24/7/365" is definitely not one of them.

I'm insulated, and therefore not complaining. I don't have it all that bad. I only have to deal with the tourist crush if I choose to go out. And I can time it for optimal tourist avoidance. But I listen to my neighbors -- particularly the octogenarians. They're the best resource I have. And their first-hand experiences of "this is how it was before statehood; this is how it was just after statehood; this is how it was 30 years ago; and this is how it is now" is perspective I cannot get anywhere else.

I want my neighbors to get what they want. Why? It's more pleasant to live among people who are happy, or at least content. People here aren't happy -- not unless they own an art gallery or a real estate brokerage. Tourism doesn't even constitute "a living" for most people. Meanwhile, I'm listening to reports of "what do we do with the displaced?" In an area with hundreds of nearby resorts. Why nobody in charge can put 2+2 together using hotels and timeshares just proves that they still aren't taking this seriously.

We spend a lot of time in Hilton Head, so we deal with it for a lot more than “a week or two”, but I do understand you point. We don’t have to deal with it 24/7/365. We have friends who live in HHI full time, so they live on the side of the island with less tourists. We get it.

Having said that, without tourism, HHI would have none of the amenities it offers for both full and part time residents. It’s a trade off.

 

[JIMinNC]

What you glaringly fail to understand is that the Hawaii nation does not support times or their values being changed to support tourism.
They support their culture being understood, respected and passed on intact to future generations. Let's hope they are able to have Lahaina rebuilt so that it promotes and supports their life style and not the life style of tourist wanting to have fun and take home some souvenirs like Wyland art.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can’t the two co-exist?

The point I was trying to make is every older generation longs for “the way things were.” I’m 66. I feel that way often. The older farmers who have seen their neighboring farms where we live turned into subdivisions with million dollar homes don’t like that change either. But they can’t stop the heirs of their neighbors that passed away from cashing in by selling the farms they inherited.

Having said that, in Hawaii, there has to be a middle ground that preserves the Hawaiian culture, but still allows tourism to bring needed revenue to the islands. Today, tourism is their only real “industry”. Without that, what would support their economy? A balance needs to be found as @ScoopKona said in an earlier post. To do that, both sides have to give and take. Sadly, give and take and compromise is a skill that has been lost in much of life today.

 

[ScoopKona]

both sides have to give and take. Sadly, give and take and compromise is a skill that has been lost in much of life today.

Here's the problem. A parable for you:

Two people stand far apart on an issue. One says to the other, "Meet me in the middle." The other takes a step forward. The first takes a step backward, and then says, "Meet me in the middle."

This is what it's like to be a local for the past 50 years. "Meet me in the middle."

 

[slip]

Why nobody in charge can put 2+2 together using hotels and timeshares just proves that they still aren't taking this seriously.

I don't know what you are watching but this was just brought up on today's news conference. I don't see why you insist that the situation is not being taken seriously?

 

[JIMinNC]

Here's the problem. A parable for you:

Two people stand far apart on an issue. One says to the other, "Meet me in the middle." The other takes a step forward. The first takes a step backward, and then says, "Meet me in the middle."

This is what it's like to be a local for the past 50 years. "Meet me in the middle."

Interesting parable and it is indeed an accurate reflection of a lot of life nowadays, particularly in politics. Both sides keep moving the goalposts. I think both sides are guilty of taking those backward steps at different times. Compromise only works if both sides always step forward. In most cases, neither side is blameless for the inability to find common ground. That’s true in politics and in the topic we are discussing.

 

[ScoopKona]

I don't know what you are watching but this was just brought up on today's news conference. I don't see why you insist that the situation is not being taken seriously?

How many displaced, homeless people exist on an island with thousands of short-term rental options? That's why.

 

[slip]

How many displaced, homeless people exist on an island with thousands of short-term rental options? That's why.

Are you grouping the homeless problem with the emergency response?

 

[ScoopKona]

Are you grouping the homeless problem with the emergency response?

Look up "displaced." But, frankly, we can house the homeless while we're at it. It's not like the condos are doing much of anything right now.

 

[vikingsholm]

I read a headline today that said Bezos of Amazon, or maybe some foundation that he has, plans to donate $100 million to help the Maui recovery and rebuild.

 

[slip]

Look up "displaced." But, frankly, we can house the homeless while we're at it. It's not like the condos are doing much of anything right now.

Some of the homeless before this emergency are displaced.

You said they aren't taking this seriously because they didn't put 2 and 2 together about putting people in the hotels and resorts. I mentioned that, it was said at today's press conference that they are doing just that. You used that as a basis that they aren't thaking things seriously but they are doing what you said and you are still saying they aren't taking it seriously?

 

[ScoopKona]

Some of the homeless before this emergency are displaced.

You said they aren't taking this seriously because they didn't put 2 and 2 together about putting people in the hotels and resorts. I mentioned that, it was said at today's press conference that they are doing just that. You used that as a basis that they aren't thaking things seriously but they are doing what you said and you are still saying they aren't taking it seriously?

Has shelter been found for all the victims? There are thousands of places to put them -- more places than victims. I'm truly not interested in "these things take time" at this point. Wait until the diabetic comas and similar start happening because they're slow-walking the relief effort. It it was you and yours, I'm sure you'd want a little more "giddyup" from everyone involved.

 

[divenski]

From

Governor says death toll in Lahaina stands at 89; warns fatalities ‘will continue to rise’

It's the deadliest US wildfire in more than a century.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

Also on Saturday, Green announced 1,000 hotel rooms had been secured for evacuees and first responders. Long-term housing options are also being sought — all at government expense.

 

[lynne]

If there is interest, the full press conference is available:

 

[slip]

Has shelter been found for all the victims? There are thousands of places to put them -- more places than victims. I'm truly not interested in "these things take time" at this point. Wait until the diabetic comas and similar start happening because they're slow-walking the relief effort. It it was you and yours, I'm sure you'd want a little more "giddyup" from everyone involved.

That must be some coffee you grow there on the farm. You can sit there and drink it and you can solve all the problems.

You over simplify everything and the truth is you have no clue what's involved. And don't give me any of that "if it were me or mine" crap. You know nothing about how I feel. The only thing you know about me is that I don’t agree with you.

Let them do their jobs. In the mean time you can organize for the impeachment proceedings for anyone you feel isn't doing a good job.

 

[davidvel]

Parable: Mr. Coffee continually moves next to airports (to tourist areas) and then complains about the airport being there and all the noise that is ruining the lives of the residents that moved in next to the airport, acting like Mr. Coffee is a native that lived there before the airport, who's opinion is the only one that matters. Luckily most people don't take Mr. Coffee's rhetoric very seriously.

 

[TravelTime]

@ScoopKona lives in Hawaii. A lot of what he is saying on this topic makes sense and comes from a local perspective as an insider. Just wondering…why are so many people beating him up on this topic?

 

[PigsDad]

@ScoopKona lives in Hawaii. A lot of what he is saying on this topic makes sense and comes from a local perspective as an insider. Just wondering…why are so many people beating him up on this topic?

I would hardly call him a "local". He is in the process of moving from Las Vegas, and he has no roots in Hawaiian culture. He's no different than any other outsider who decided to buy his way onto the island. For all practical purposes, he is a glorified tourist.

But all of that aside, just take a look at the recent exchange between him and @slip above -- Mr. Coffee makes a bold claim, slip shows where he is dead wrong, but Mr. Coffee continues to spew his misinformed comments trying to contradict what the Hawaiian authorities are saying. And you think Mr. Coffee "makes sense"??? Very puzzled.

Kurt

 

[letsgobobby]

Look up "displaced." But, frankly, we can house the homeless while we're at it. It's not like the condos are doing much of anything right now.

you first

 

[10spro]

So there are still places to go and things to do there and, as I and others have stated, anything we can do to help Maui recover is worth doing.

We've been going to Maui several times a year for a long time. We do [did] enjoy visiting Front Street, but it has never been our entire vacation. We also like just chilling at the resort, driving around admiring the scenery, visiting some of the local businesses, and catching up with friends. It is an epic disaster that has happened, but the island will rebound over time, and I hope to help do my little part by continuing to support it.

 

[Kapolei]

Not sure why people are arguing with each other and calling people out in this forum. Please keep on topic. This is not about the personalities in a thread. Save it for another time and place.

 

[davidvel]

@ScoopKona lives in Hawaii. A lot of what he is saying on this topic makes sense and comes from a local perspective as an insider. Just wondering…why are so many people beating him up on this topic?

You must not have read many of Mr. Coffee's posts. He acts as though he is a Hawaiian native speaking for all "locals" and generally rails against tourists and tourism in general. On a board that has many TS tourists that love Hawaii and Maui as a travel destination. His posts all have an air of superiority and shaking (not ) of that finger at tourists. And yet as Pigsdad notes, there is no authenticity. . . Here's a post just above (edited for brevity):

. . .
My permanent addresses have been in the Florida Keys, Las Vegas and Hawaii. Nothing else. I don't know what it's like to be an adult in a non-tourist town. Never tried it.

I don't get to escape the obnoxious tourists. . . You deal with it for a week or two. . . . There are loads of perks, sure. But "dealing with tourists 24/7/365" is definitely not one of them.

I'm insulated, and therefore not complaining. I don't have it all that bad. I only have to deal with the tourist crush if I choose to go out. And I can time it for optimal tourist avoidance. But I listen to my neighbors -- particularly the octogenarians. They're the best resource I have. And their first-hand experiences of "this is how it was before statehood; this is how it was just after statehood; this is how it was 30 years ago; and this is how it is now" is perspective I cannot get anywhere else.

I want my neighbors to get what they want. Why? It's more pleasant to live among people who are happy, or at least content. People here aren't happy -- not unless they own an art gallery or a real estate brokerage. Tourism doesn't even constitute "a living" for most people. . . .

And yet Mr. Coffee makes money off tourists (or at least tries to). He advertises his farm as "An Air B&B" (tourists?) that he bought 5 years ago (according to his own words) from an elderly (local?, native?) couple that couldn't maintain the land.

He invites tourists to come to his land and visit, to market his coffee and tour the farm. (What do his octogenarian neighbors think of this?)

Nah, not genuine at all.