End the stigma of purchasing from developer [ POLL ADDED ABOVE ∆ ]

[ace2000]

I'm surprised that more haven't agreed with my perspective that without that first Developer purchase they would never have found TimeSharing.

George

George, I completely agree with you. In fact, one might describe your scenario as "making lemonade out of lemons"!!!

Here's the thread for anyone that would like to review it.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214589

 

[swditz]

I voted developer. but it was a developer resale. That is a BIG difference when buying Westgate properties!
our second ts was a resale.

 

[SueDonJ]

How in the world are you making this post judging what has been said if you ae not even going to take the time to review the posts that were made to your thread??

I took that to mean he wouldn't comment specifically about many of the individual posts, and not that he didn't read many of them.

 

[theo]

My $0.02 worth...

I don't know about any "stigma" associated with (or assigned to) anyone who has purchased from a developer, although I personally have never actually done so.

My take is simply that some TUGGERS (among whom I gladly include myself) undertake some effort to clearly communicate to the uneducated and uninformed who make their way to this site that there is a resale market --- and that they have the legal right to rescind a developer purchase within a state-law defined period of time.

Stigma? Only if somesome chooses to somehow feel "stigmatized", I would respectfully submit. Just my personal viewpoint and opinion. YMMV.

 

[TheWizz]

On a related note, Wyndham recently sent me a letter saying I was prequalified for a $50,000 loan to purchase a Wyndham timeshare.

The interest rate was 14-18%! :hysterical:

What a deal! Did you buy TWO??!!??

 

[NJ2Aruba]

I purchased my two weeks as resales and enjoyed the benefits of annual travel to Aruba for over five years as an owner. All of my friends know about how I became an owner but recently, friends of mine went to Hawaii. They agreed to attend a 90 minute presentation in return for whatever gift or comp was offered. My friend's husband said to her beforehand: "Just to make sure we're on the same page, we're NOT buying a timeshare."

Well guess what? After what was over a two hour presentation, they signed on the dotted line and bought a timeshare. Even though they knew that I had bought resale and could have told the presenter that they wanted to go back to their room and discuss the matter further before making a decision (then looking up resales at the same resort online). they signed and are now obligated at full price. Only after the rescission period was over and after speaking with me, did they see how much they could have saved on a resale. Some resales were priced so low that they could have written a check for the full price!

The best advice I got prior to buying resale is to look for STUDIOS. Why? The maintenance payment is the lowest and if you are not insistent upon weeks 51 and 52 or a Spring break week, a good resort like the Divi Aruba Phoenix will upgrade at check in. This is exactly what I have experienced over my years of ownership, and we were even upgraded the year we did go to Aruba the day after Christmas!

[advertising not permitted in this forum]

I wonder how many resales actually take place through this forum. It seems to me that this is primarily used by existing owners rather than people in the market to purchase a time share. [advertising not permitted in ths forum]

 

[csxjohn]

I took that to mean he wouldn't comment specifically about many of the individual posts, and not that he didn't read many of them.

I could have misinterpreted what was written. If each post was read then I was wrong, AGAIN.

 

[theo]

Huh?

I wonder how many resales actually take place through this forum.

None, actually. This particular forum is simply for discussions --- not for advertising or marketing, both of which are strictly prohibited in this forum.
The unquoted portions of your post above may actually be regarded by a moderator as skirting (or crossing) the line of that particular prohibition.

Are you actually instead referring to the TUG Marketplace section, which is an entirely diiferent part of this TUG web site?

 

[Patri]

It was the way that he said it that made us want to learn more. I found the resale business on eBay and was floored. I then found TUG thankfully.

We went back this year to a Summer Winds presentation. We did purchase for $10k because it was a floating week and the hot deals, etc. Seemed we made a good decision at Stormy Point. I immediately went on here and discovered the problems owners were having of even getting a week at stormy point, let alone a summer week. We also discovered those 'perks' that were 'given' to us for signing that day were actually basic with II. We rescinded the next day.

You are so smart twice. Congrats.

 

[pacodemountainside]

You are so smart twice. Congrats.

Wise man saith:

Fool me once, shame on you;

Fool me twice, shame on me;

Fool me three times and I am a lost cause!

 

[Phill12]

I'm surprised that more haven't agreed with my perspective that without that first Developer purchase they would never have found TimeSharing.

George

I think the poll count is more towards the younger members so the count will favor the resale vote. People need to remember when families like ours bought there was no resale or Tug sites to look at. There are just not that many of us old timers on here anymore so any polling would lean toward the younger owners.

We sold our first timeshare bought from the developer in PV Mexico the Los Tules Resort after winning a free week from the Oakland A's. We posted it for sale on bulletin boards at work and in town.

I do agree that many on this and other sites come across as total know-it-all and post many times with a very negativity sound to people who did buy from the developer. This was only way years ago to buy a timeshare and most of us that did buy now would recommend resale when possible.

We have owned since 1983 and loved our timesharing over the years but reading many of these postings I wouldn't want to buy any timeshare because after reading them you leave here thinking "Why am I thinking about buying a timeshare"

There are many owners on here that know what their talking about and try to be fair with their information to others but some think because they own a timeshare they are now experts and seem to always be negative in their posts like sending all possible buyers to E-bay. Many of these people may be killing a good deal from two tug members and really don't care as long as they tell them they can do better some where else without knowing anything about the deal.:deadhorse:

PHILL12

 

[advocoach]

Our resale came from a widower that had owned the timeshare for 21 years. That gave me more confidence with the purchase.
I would have no problem buying from developer if they were actually 100% upfront with you and gave you a little time to research.

 

[DeniseM]

Our resale came from a widower that had owned the timeshare for 21 years. That gave me more confidence with the purchase.
I would have no problem buying from developer if they were actually 100% upfront with you and gave you a little time to research.

Really? - So you'd be willing to pay 90-100% more to an honest developer?

 

[advocoach]

If it fit our family's needs exactly, no I would not.....only after given ample time to do proper research.
There would be no resale market if someone hadn't bought new when the properties opened.

 

[DeniseM]

If it fit our family's needs exactly, no I would not.....only after given ample time to do proper research.
There would be no resale market if someone hadn't bought new when the properties opened.

But if you can buy the same thing on the resale market, why would you be willing to pay more?

 

[uscav8r]

I'm surprised that more haven't agreed with my perspective that without that first Developer purchase they would never have found TimeSharing.

George

George, I'm not sure anyone is necessarily disagreeing with your premise. Are you referring to the poll results or from other comments?

Pre-TUG/internet, you are probably right that prospective owners would not have learned about timesharing. In this day and age, however, All one really needs to do is to:

a) hear about TS from a friend or coworker (most likely one who has had a positive TS experience), or
b) attend a sales presentation.

No longer does one have to actually buy at that presentation to learn about how TS works. There is the rental market, websites such as TUG, and then the resale (or if the numbers work out, the developer) market.

 

[theo]

Sure, but...

There would be no resale market if someone hadn't bought new when the properties opened.

Sure -- this is obvious and irrefutably correct, just as it is equally true that there would be no cars (or refrigerators, or guitars, or boats --- or substitute and insert whatever other item you may choose) offered for less money as "used" or "resale", unless someone originally bought the item "new" (at full price) in the first place.

However, I respectfully submit that this observation misses (or evades) the important fundamental point and truth that in timeshares, the "used" (i.e., resale) product is (with very few exceptions) essentially the exact same product as the "new" version thereof , but at 90+% less money. That's not an observation intended to berate the developer-direct buyer for paying "full freight" --- it's merely an observation of the indisputable factual, numerical reality of the timeshare "resale" market.

Alan Cole has had a much more eloquent observation of this fact on numerous occasions, essentially noting that all timeshares are "used" timeshares after their very first night of occupancy (my apologies Alan if I have inadequately represented your own more articulate expression of this fact).

 

[pedro47]

Wise man saith:

Fool me once, shame on you;

Fool me twice, shame on me;

Fool me three times and I am a lost cause!

I agree with you 100 %. This is a major problem in this industry buying from a developer . . There are so many fools in the timeshare market. Please read this with an open mind. This is a true story. I have a friend who purchase a Blue Week (a January Week) from his personal stock broker for over Seven ($7,000.00)thousands dollars. The week was a Blue Week in Williamsburg, VA. I am still upsets with both parties today.

Plus, the resort was not even a Marriott resort.

 

[uscav8r]

I am the OP on this thread. I won't try to review the entire thread or respond to many individual comments, but here is my update:

1. Although "stigma" still fits in my mind, I don't think it was generally interpreted in the way I intended so I would rescind that word . However I do like another term someone used: an undercurrent of negativity (towards developer vs. resale).

Have you considered that the time factor and the limited rescission windows involved play a factor in the tone of the "rescind now" message? Many newbies who post for the first time do so with maybe 2-3 days (5-7 if they are lucky to have found TUG in time) remaining in the window. Directness and a sense of urgency should not necessarily be construed as negativity. I don't usually see replies, such as "What are you, a moron?" or anything of that nature.

2. I was advised by a number of people not to care about what other people think or say about me. That is one reason I would rescind the word stigma. It was really more about reading the general tone of comments after ending up with a developer purchase and with the period to rescind closed. The post that set me off was titled "Making lemonade out of lemons" which I thought was unfortunate for someone to feel that way.

Having read the lemonade thread, the title seemed more out of regret that the poster could have gotten a much better deal, not that anyone treated him/her poorly. I think anybody will have at least some regret at having just paid tens of thousands of dollars more than what they could have and are past the rescind period after not fully reading the contract terms. This is just human nature.

3. (...) To reiterate, my point was that there is a general undercurrent of negativity (I like that phrase) towards purchasing from developer and there should be more positivity about having joined HGVC and what it offers. Even if it did cost a lot more than buying resale.

Perhaps it is a function of sample size. I've read plenty of positive welcoming posts to HGVC (or to TS in general) no matter how one obtained ownership.

With respect to the high developer prices, most of what I read lays out how the retail purchases (in general) do not make up for themselves with the "perks" that the developer offers. I look at it matter-of-factly, but perhaps this may be construed as negativity?

5. My overall summary is that there are some people who agreed with me to some degree, but more who disagreed.

The written word/blogs/email are notorious for obscuring emotion and the body language we often rely upon in our physical interactions, and can often come across more callous than ever intended. If anything, this thread is a way for each of us to evaluate how we say something. In general TUGers are a very helpful bunch, hence we are passionate in our attempts to help others so they don't make avoidable financial mistakes.

 

[uscav8r]

You could buy this great condo and stay here or trade for another location for $50,000 plus $1,500 annually for maint fees.

or you could buy this great condo and stay here or trade for another location for $5000 plus $1,500 annually for maint fees.

Your choice.

This is another way of saying what I said that most of the people on TUG are just pointing out that it is much less expensive to buy resale than from the developer. They are not criticizing those that bought from the developer most of whom, like me, did not know there was a resale market.

But if you can buy the same thing on the resale market, why would you be willing to pay more?

This whole thread makes me think of one of those old Priceline or Expedia commercials crossed with a V8 juice commercial.

In the travel website one, there are two guys are sitting next to each other on a plane. Voice over/cartoon pop-up: guy on left paid $800. Guy on right paid $200. Who would you rather be? Knowing information beforehand (which is the whole point of TUG), of course you'd want to be the guy on the right.

Then there is the person slapping themselves on the forehead and exclaiming, "I coulda had a V8!" That passenger on the left, if he ever heard about what the guy on his right paid, could not be blamed for having this same V8 moment.

Neither context of those is "negative" but admittedly the stakes are not quite as high as when dealing with a TS purchase.

 

[uscav8r]

I agree with you 100 %. This is a major problem in this industry buying from a developer . . There are so many fools in the timeshare market. Please read this with an open mind. This is a true story. I have a friend who purchase a Blue Week (a January Week) from his personal stock broker for over Seven ($7,000.00)thousands dollars. The week was a Blue Week in Williamsburg, VA. I am still upsets with both parties today.

Plus, the resort was not even a Marriott resort.

Wow. I would fire that stock broker in an instant (unless he was truly getting your friend 25-40% returns higher than the market every year).

 

[Beefnot]

Can you show us an example anywhere on TUG where someone treated a buyer with disdain because they chose to buy from the developer?

I sure have seen it. Along the lines of "It sure is crazy that someone would buy a timeshare full freight without researching first". An unnecessary pot shot to a newbiew who is asking for assistance in deciding what to do.

And, I sometimes do wonder how gullible people are to not question such a big purchase nor do due diligence on it. After all, timeshare purchases are often more expensive than your typical automobile cost, and yet I'm sure these same people do more research on which car to buy than if and which timeshare they should buy, until they reach TUG and learn more.

You are writing this in this thread, but I've seen the sentiment directed to newbies in other threads. I don't necessarily disagree by the way, but (a) I think it flippantly overvalues typical human willpower in deflecting relentless sales tactics and (b) there should be a greater level of sympathy directed towards newbies genuinely seeking advice.

But I too think that there has been a negative undercurrent on TUG towards those who purchase direct and try to explain their rationale for it.

I am all for handling advice seekers sympathetically, however I have no such sensitivity when someone is seeking to rationalize a developer purchase. When one decides to put on their logical persuasion hat, then debate on. And in most cases, when it comes down to it, "what works for me" ends up not being logically defensible. It's just what I'm comfortable with, and I'll pay a premium for that. Okay, their prerogative, but not because it is rational.

 

[SueDonJ]

Wow. I would fire that stock broker in an instant (unless he was truly getting your friend 25-40% returns higher than the market every year).

Why? He had something to sell and managed to get what TUGgers would call an above-market price for it. What if he was selling a used car or dining room set or watch - would he be a bad stockbroker if he also managed to get above-market prices for any of those things?

 

[SueDonJ]

... I am all for handling advice seekers sympathetically, however I have no such sensitivity when someone is seeking to rationalize a developer purchase. When one decides to put on their logical persuasion hat, then debate on. And in most cases, when it comes down to it, "what works for me" ends up not being logically defensible. It's just what I'm comfortable with, and I'll pay a premium for that. Okay, their prerogative, but not because it is rational.

In your opinion.

 

[Beefnot]

I have a friend who purchase a Blue Week (a January Week) from his personal stock broker for over Seven ($7,000.00)thousands dollars. The week was a Blue Week in Williamsburg, VA. I am still upsets with both parties today.

Plus, the resort was not even a Marriott resort.

Wow. I would fire that stock broker in an instant (unless he was truly getting your friend 25-40% returns higher than the market every year).

Why? He had something to sell and managed to get what TUGgers would call an above-market price for it. What if he was selling a used car or dining room set or watch - would he be a bad stockbroker if he also managed to get above-market prices for any of those things?

I find it very difficult to believe that if you discovered your personal stockbroker sold you a worthless timeshare for $7k, you would be okay with that.