End the stigma of purchasing from developer [ POLL ADDED ABOVE ∆ ]

[JIMinNC]

Can you show us an example anywhere on TUG where someone treated a buyer with disdain because they chose to buy from the developer? There is way too much drama in this thread. Even the adjectives "stigma" and "disdain" are going overboard.

I was mainly referring to the use of those words in this thread as opposed to TUG in general. I agree that generally the advice here is accurate and courteous - a great place to share thoughts and ideas.

The only thing I take some issue with is when the advice is rendered in absolutes that say there is never a good reason to buy anything from a developer. As my 1998 Embassy and 2014 Marriott examples show, sometimes developer is the only way to get what you are looking for - but having said that, I think it is certainly accurate to say that most of the time buying from the developer is a bad idea.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Buying Resale is Strongly Recommended for Price

I don't believe that most of the posts on TUG concerning buying resale versus buying from the developer are anything more than recommendations that the price of resales are much lower than buying from the developer. Therefore, Tug members buy resale. The benefits of buying from the developer are explained as minimal versus the cost difference. If this was recommendations on buying jewelry, furniture or clothing at 1/4 to 1/3 the price of retail no one would blink an eye that the recommendations were anything but great advice.

 

[bogey21]

My first TS Week was a Sabal Palms bought pre-construction from Marriott. I followed this up by buying three more Marriott Weeks, two from Marriott and one in the Resale Market.

I consider those purchases instrumental in my learning how TimeSharing works. Once I figured it out I sold my four Marriott Weeks (at a small profit) and bought 6 Weeks at HOA Controlled Independents.

The point I would like to make is that had I not bought the Developer Weeks I would never have figured out TimeSharing and would never have ended up with what I consider to be a great TimeSharing experience.

George

 

[dvc_john]

It's only been the last 5 to 10 years that the prices on resales have dropped so dramatically.

I bought my first timeshare from the developer 30 years ago, and have used it every year since.

When I bought most of my timeshares, I bought them as they were being constructed, and when developer prices were lowest and bonuses highest. The resale market for these resorts was several years off. And by the time units started hitting the resale market, developer prices had increased a lot, and resale prices were about what I paid from the developer 2 or 3 years earlier. That, of course, is no longer the case.

So I have no regrets buying from the developer.

 

[Mcduck]

I would like to thank this forum. Back in 2008 I purchased retail in Hawaii and found this forum and quickly rescinded. The amount I used as the deposit for a three bedroom unit went to the purchase of a resale week. I have also gained so much info on how to truly use my points as well. I am a happy resale owner.

I did considered purchasing a week in park city but those weeks are so inflated considering before Hilton bought it a 2 bedroom condo was the low 300's. Now a week is close to 50k.

 

[VegasBella]

I think that on TUG there is a general culture of bargain- shopping. That translates into a stigma against buying from the developer as well as any other choice that doesn't maximize the average Tugger's perception of value. But it's not every Tugger or every thread. Plenty of Tuggers bought retail and/or aren't super interested in constantly maximizing value. I do think this penny-pinching culture can be negative at times but overall I think buying from developers should have a bit of a stigma.

 

[Passepartout]

OK, so my takeaway here is that those who purchased developer weeks either pre-construction, or before a resale market matured or appeared are the happiest developer purchasers. Followed by those who wanted/needed a specific week/unit. These folks knew going in that they would be paying a premium to get what they specifically wanted.

But for those who just want 'a vacation ownership' at a nice resort, at a lower price, and are not tied to a specific unit or time, resale works and at significant savings.

There. There is a reason for the retail purchaser to feel satisfied with what they bought. The problem- and the reason for the rescind, rescind, rescind chorus, is for the people who rightfully belong in the second group. Lied to and coerced by a shady sales force, using unfair practices and deceit to sell them a product they don't understand at a price 90+% above what they can acquire a vacation property that will serve their needs perfectly well at 10% or less the price.

If anyone deserves all the stigma and disdain that can be heaped upon them, it's the sales force, selling overpriced accommodations to the uninformed. Shame on them!

Jim

 

[TUGBrian]

Just my opinion, but if someone wants to berate me during the process of saving me tens of thousands of dollars...im still likely to thank them at the end and wont mind one bit =)

That said, I rarely see anyone actually insult someone for buying from the developer, but instead merely point out it was likely an expensive mistake easily rectified if within the rescission period.

 

[SueDonJ]

I'm all for educating anyone who visits TUG and I agree that the advice to "rescind if possible" is what we should be telling anyone who has questions about exactly what it is that they've recently purchased.

But I too think that there has been a negative undercurrent on TUG towards those who purchase direct and try to explain their rationale for it. It might not lately be as negative an undercurrent as it was several years ago when those of us who purchased direct with good reason were still lumped in with those who were completely uneducated about timeshares, still being called "suckers" routinely, but it still exists in one form or another.

It's true, most TUGgers were first direct purchasers before they found and used the external resale markets. But the takeaway I still get is that it's okay to be one of those folks if you only support external resales now, and not okay to be one of those folks if you can find any instance where a developer-direct purchase might suit a buyer's circumstances today.

Despite the undercurrents I still think that TUG is THE MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE website related to timesharing, and it's important for all of us to make sure that anyone considering a timeshare ownership is made to feel welcome. I don't hesitate to jump up on a soapbox when I think that isn't happening.

 

[billymach4]

Here is a great comparison


You could finance this this great condo and stay here or trade for another location for $50,000 plus $1,500 annually for maint fees.

Or you could buy this great condo and stay here or trade for another location for $5000 plus $1,500 annually for maint fees.

Your choice.

 

[pedro47]

35 Plus years ago they was no true resale market for Marriott timeshare or from any timeshare owner. 35 Plus years ago there was no TUG website. 35 Plus years there was no ocean front timeshare selling for over 15 thousand dollars to my knowledge.

35 plus years ago the developer was the only source to purchase a timeshare. The majority of all timeshare resorts were brand new and thus there was no resell market.

 

[SueDonJ]

You could finance this this great condo and stay here or trade for another location for $50,000 plus $1,500 annually for maint fees. ... Or you could buy this great condo and stay here or trade for another location for $5000 plus $1,500 annually for maint fees.

Your choice.

Eh, that's not my idea of a great condo; it's a glorified hotel room with way-too limited amenities. If that's all you want you can get it much cheaper by exchanging 2BR units that cost less upfront and for fewer MF's.

See? There is ALWAYS going to be a cheaper way to do things if you don't want specific things. But it's when you introduce specifics like certain units or certain seasons or certain resorts or certain comfort levels, that's when the issue becomes all shades of the rainbow instead of stark black and white.

 

[DeniseM]

On a related note, Wyndham recently sent me a letter saying I was prequalified for a $50,000 loan to purchase a Wyndham timeshare.

The interest rate was 14-18%! :hysterical:

 

[Makai Guy]

As this thread relates to buying from "the developer", not specifically Hilton, I'm moving it to the more general "Buying, Selling, Renting" forum.

 

[MagdalenaLBoyd]

Stigma

I am a frequent visitor to the HGVC forum on TUG. It is often interesting and useful to read people's comments and questions about the resorts and the system.

The reason for my post is that I feel there is far too much of a negative tone on the forum towards purchasing from the developer. Those who bought resale are quick to tell others, either directly or with an implied tone, "Too bad you bought from the developer instead of resale; but I hope you can make the best of it." Or "Rescind, rescind, rescind." Or "Why would you do that; don't you know about the resale market?"

I find it disheartening to read comments like this (from recent thread http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214589) where someone says "I am one of the unfortunate people who found this forum only after I purchased directly. Since I have no choice I am going to try to make the best of owning.", or something like that. You can read that quite frequently in the forum. Clearly this person and others like them have just spent thousands of dollars and the tone on TUG makes them feel regretful and disappointed, instead of happy about the future opportunities.

Those of us who did buy from the developer (including me) may have good reasons for doing so, or more commonly I would guess based on how often people mention it, did so before discovering TUG and without realizing there is a resale market (including me). For those who may be thinking that this guy must enjoy spending thousands of unnecessary extra dollars, you're missing my point. I do realize that you might be able to save yourself thousands of dollars by going resale, including rescinding if it is within the time frame, but it is not the only valid route to joining HGVC.

My point is that for some people purchasing resale is the only way to go, and that is fine for them. For others, purchasing from the developer is something done with or without knowledge of other options. But purchasing from the developer should not be stigmatized so much. You make your decision in the sales office, you know the reasons for your decision, and you know how much it costs. Finding out later that it might be possible to get the same or very nearly the same thing for much less might make you wish you had known about that option, but it shouldn't completely undermine the decision or why you made it knowing what you knew at the time. In the end you've joined a reputable timeshare system with a network of quality resorts in many desirable places to vacation, whether by direct purchase or resale. And that is what should matter.

I would be interested to know if others who have purchased from the developer also feel the general negative tone and stigma towards this on the forum.

Not sure you want to hear from me as I didn't purchase from developer but close family members have. From what I've seen those who purchase from developer do tend to be treated better by the developer so I do see some benefits. There is also a segment of buyers where price/hassle factor in so if someone was worth many millions of dollars and likes timeshares, I totally get it.

The problem is that there really aren't many people who fall into the above categories so I tend to feel those who bought from developer were taken advantage of. I've made mistakes before so I guess you could say I feel bad for them and look forward to the day where the practices that lead to people being taken advantage of end.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Another way of saying what I said

You could buy this great condo and stay here or trade for another location for $50,000 plus $1,500 annually for maint fees.

or you could buy this great condo and stay here or trade for another location for $5000 plus $1,500 annually for maint fees.

Your choice.

This is another way of saying what I said that most of the people on TUG are just pointing out that it is much less expensive to buy resale than from the developer. They are not criticizing those that bought from the developer most of whom, like me, did not know there was a resale market.

 

[Rent_Share]

The timeshare Sales Scum is a pro at slinging BS about what a great opportunity, enough to get 1 of 4 minimum to turn loose of 20K in 90 minutes . . . .They wouldn't/couldn't say what they say If it wasn't true . . . . The TUG community can be more abrupt than someone that could sell ice to eskimos

If there is any opportunity to rescind, the TUG community is going to recommend rescinding without judgment, Don't know of anyone that believes whatever was offered to get someone to sign won't be available after conducting research, if someone wanted to repurchase. - No more truth to that lie, (exaggeration) than the others told to buy.

Adding comments that there might be a rare case that a time/view requirement might only be available through a developer purchase just adds doubt to someone that needs to do independent research, rather than basing a 20K decision on a Sales Scums lies.

For those who can't rescind, the universal recommendation is to learn to use and enjoy to get maximum value, the $ 1.00 resales are from people so disgusted with the whole program that they just want to get out of the on going expense of a program they shouldn't have been high pressure sold into, and unable/unwilling to learn how to use to any level of value.

 

[Patri]

***Let's find out - I added a poll at the very top of the page.

FYI Answers are not anonymous (if that matters to anyone).

 

[advocoach]

Last year we attended a Wyndham presentation. That was the first time we had ever heard about the point system. It sounded like a great deal but the price for 154,000 points was almost $40k plus the guy kept insisting we could use towards hotel rooms for my husband's business and borrow or rent points for very little. It was the way that he said it that made us want to learn more. I found the resale business on eBay and was floored. I then found TUG thankfully. I researched and discovered it wasn't all the guy said it was.
We went back this year to a Summer Winds presentation. We did purchase for $10k because it was a floating week and the hot deals, etc. Seemed we made a good decision at Stormy Point. I immediately went on here and discovered the problems owners were having of even getting a week at stormy point, let alone a summer week. We also discovered those 'perks' that were 'given' to us for signing that day were actually basic with II. We rescinded the next day.
I did more research and ended up purchasing a week at Wyndham Pagosa on eBay for $19 plus closing & transfer paid by seller and $800/year fees. We are at our unit right now and so far we are very pleased with our purchase and saved thousands plus snagged a prime summer week in the mountains while its close to 100 back home.
Yes I'm all for the resale market after you do research and know exactly what you are getting and what you want.

 

[pacodemountainside]

Last year we attended a Wyndham presentation. That was the first time we had ever heard about the point system. It sounded like a great deal but the price for 154,000 points was almost $40k plus the guy kept insisting we could use towards hotel rooms for my husband's business and borrow or rent points for very little. It was the way that he said it that made us want to learn more. I found the resale business on eBay and was floored. I then found TUG thankfully. I researched and discovered it wasn't all the guy said it was.

WOW! You lucked out!

This gal just paid $26K for 200K points and got elevated to VIP for 2 years.


loli
Guest


BBS Reg. Date: Jul 3, 14
Location: Kansas
Posts: 30

Resorts: Wyndham Quote:
Originally Posted by pacodemountainside
Ron beat me to the keyboard on this one.

Taking a guess you bought around 200K points for $30K+ (rack rate $44K) and got bonus points for VIP for two years.

If you bough resale on Internet you do not have VIP bennies for whatever they are worth.

Actually bought a package for less than 26,000

 

[advocoach]

I would rather save thousands without VIP status, than end you having to spend more in a couple years to keep VIP status. For our family it's about the deals and not the status or renting out points. I'll take saving thousands upfront rather than small discounts on stuff we don't use that much...lol.

 

[pgiles]

Update from OP

I am the OP on this thread. I won't try to review the entire thread or respond to many individual comments, but here is my update:

1. Although "stigma" still fits in my mind, I don't think it was generally interpreted in the way I intended so I would rescind that word . However I do like another term someone used: an undercurrent of negativity (towards developer vs. resale).

2. I was advised by a number of people not to care about what other people think or say about me. That is one reason I would rescind the word stigma. It was really more about reading the general tone of comments after ending up with a developer purchase and with the period to rescind closed. The post that set me off was titled "Making lemonade out of lemons" which I thought was unfortunate for someone to feel that way.

3. I did include the admission, to make it clear, that I understood that the resale market could save thousands of dollars on a purchase. I don't discount that as important, and I don't pretend it should be completely put aside and forgotten after one does buy from developer. But I also said that was not really the point of my post, and I implied that some people would probably laugh at me for willingly throwing away thousands of dollars when the same or nearly the same thing could be bought for much less. Well at least three people did exactly that (in my opinion). To reiterate, my point was that there is a general undercurrent of negativity (I like that phrase) towards purchasing from developer and there should be more positivity about having joined HGVC and what it offers. Even if it did cost a lot more than buying resale.

4. Although I have yet to follow up the original developer purchase with a resale purchase, I do value TUG and the information from others about the resale market and the option it provides, as many posters have noted.

5. My overall summary is that there are some people who agreed with me to some degree, but more who disagreed.

 

[csxjohn]

I am the OP on this thread. I won't try to review the entire thread or respond to many individual comments, but here is my update:

1. Although "stigma" still fits in my mind, I don't think it was generally interpreted in the way I intended so I would rescind that word . However I do like another term someone used: an undercurrent of negativity (towards developer vs. resale).

2. I was advised by a number of people not to care about what other people think or say about me. That is one reason I would rescind the word stigma. It was really more about reading the general tone of comments after ending up with a developer purchase and with the period to rescind closed. The post that set me off was titled "Making lemonade out of lemons" which I thought was unfortunate for someone to feel that way.

3. I did include the admission, to make it clear, that I understood that the resale market could save thousands of dollars on a purchase. I don't discount that as important, and I don't pretend it should be completely put aside and forgotten after one does buy from developer. But I also said that was not really the point of my post, and I implied that some people would probably laugh at me for willingly throwing away thousands of dollars when the same or nearly the same thing could be bought for much less. Well at least three people did exactly that (in my opinion). To reiterate, my point was that there is a general undercurrent of negativity (I like that phrase) towards purchasing from developer and there should be more positivity about having joined HGVC and what it offers. Even if it did cost a lot more than buying resale.

4. Although I have yet to follow up the original developer purchase with a resale purchase, I do value TUG and the information from others about the resale market and the option it provides, as many posters have noted.

5. My overall summary is that there are some people who agreed with me to some degree, but more who disagreed.

How in the world are you making this post judging what has been said if you ae not even going to take the time to review the posts that were made to your thread??

 

[ace2000]

I am the OP on this thread. I won't try to review the entire thread or respond to many individual comments, but here is my update:

I see good and helpful advice to the OP of the "lemonade" thread. In fact the OP thanked everyone for the help. I'd be curious, what specifically irked you about that thread?

And for anyone who says there is negativity towards a developer purchase, how should we as a TUG group, respond differently? I think most people just want to get the word out that buying directly from the developer is mostly a big mistake. Sometimes it is a well researched decision, and it's ok, but that is not the norm.

 

[bogey21]

I'm surprised that more haven't agreed with my perspective that without that first Developer purchase they would never have found TimeSharing.

George