Don't buy a timeshare. It's the worst deal they can do.

[jp10558]

That only works for the people who want to go to the same places or stay within the umbrella of one timeshare company. And while that's the popular wisdom, it isn't correct for everyone.

Popular wisdom also says that "don't timeshare in Europe," while completely ignoring Hapimag's existence. Europe works great with timeshares -- not the timeshare most people in the US own, but that isn't the point. Buy the system that fits the need.

The other popular idea is "don't buy a timeshare just to trade." News to me. I've never, ever stayed in the resort I own. I never will. It's in my home town. I'll just stay at a Conch House in Old Town if I want to go home. Being a 100% trader can also work just fine. But it's not nearly as "buy a week, use your week, you are done for the year."

And then there's the ability to trade one week for four. (Used to be five. They changed it.) There are several companies which allow people to trade for more time if they're willing to trade down in size or season or both. This is how we've seen Europe. We don't like going there in the summer and fighting for a glimpse of David with all the Asian and American tourists. Shoulder season costs less and is more enjoyable. That doesn't work for everyone. But it works great for us.

Finally, successful timeshare trading requires the kind of flexibility which people demand they possess. But in reality few people actually have. Not many people can cheerfully say "Hey, let's go to Norway, Spain or Malta this Spring!" No, it's more like, "I want what I want when I want it." So they're never going to be happy with these trading systems -- as they are designed. (My oft referenced friend who cancels any trip when the weather looks less than perfect, for instance.)

I don't disagree with any of this. I personally pretty much only bought timeshares to trade and so far so good, but only 1 year of it so far so IDK, we'll see.

What I am saying is for the person who feels timeshares are too complicated, doing what you're suggesting adds a lot of complication, and a lot of risk of "doing it wrong" (especially starting out) and getting very little value from the MFs. Honestly, not everyone (or apparently most people) are good at or interested in diving into working out a really good deal. I like to think I'm in the top 10% of that, so I don't get the amazing one week for 4 or anything like that, but I do end up with savings really quickly - by September this year, i.e. 1 year and 9 months, my overall spend compared to the same number of rooms in hotels I stay at will go positive. Though I'm getting more and more inclined to throw a wrench in that by getting a Scotland week in HGVC to also get II while keeping HGVC points an option / backup.

 

[adam2013]

If you ask any Financial Planners whether you should purchase timeshare and the answer is a resounding NO.

 

[SteveinHNL]

If you ask any Financial Planners whether you should purchase timeshare and the answer is a resounding NO.

A financial planner who gives one-size-fits-all all answers to questions should be a resounding no.

 

[adam2013]

A financial planner who gives one-size-fits-all all answers to questions should be a resounding no.

I work for a financial regulation industry (non-profit) and the advice I receive from my employer and the Security Exchange Commission (SEC) is that timeshare is a bad investment for 99.99% of the population. The timeshare industry is being investigated by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and deceptive and misleading sales practices.

 

[The Colorado Kid]

I work for a financial regulation industry (non-profit) and the advice I receive from my employer and the Security Exchange Commission (SEC) is that timeshare is a bad investment for 99.99% of the population. The timeshare industry is being investigated by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and deceptive and misleading sales practices.

Its not an investment

 

[SteveinHNL]

I work for a financial regulation industry (non-profit) and the advice I receive from my employer and the Security Exchange Commission (SEC) is that timeshare is a bad investment for 99.99% of the population. The timeshare industry is being investigated by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and deceptive and misleading sales practices.

Financial planning involves more than just investing.

 

[adam2013]

Financial planning involves more than just investing.

Fair enough. Why is the industry is being investigated by the FTC for deceptive and misleading sales practices?

 

[SteveinHNL]

Fair enough. Why is the industry is being investigated by the FTC for deceptive and misleading sales practices?

I suspect because they engage in deceptive and misleading practices. Here's the thing. A financial planner shouldn't recommend TS as an investment, because they are lousy investments. TS is a vacation device that can add a lot of enjoyment to your life, if: (1) you can afford the purchase (buy resale!!!) and the annual MFs; (2) it fits your style of vacationing; and (3) you have the flexibility in your life to enjoy your TS. I think any financial planner worth his or her salt would look at the big picture of the client's life and goals before answering "yes" or "no" to the wisdom of any purchase. So the point that is being made by Colorado Kid and myself is that TS is not a purchase that is made to invest with the expectation of cash return. It is an investment in your enjoyment, with the returns being years of future enjoyment, in places that are better than where you would stay for the price of your MFs.

 

[adam2013]

I suspect because they engage in deceptive and misleading practices. Here's the thing. A financial planner shouldn't recommend TS as an investment, because they are lousy investments. TS is a vacation device that can add a lot of enjoyment to your life, if: (1) you can afford the purchase (buy resale!!!) and the annual MFs; (2) it fits your style of vacationing; and (3) you have the flexibility in your life to enjoy your TS. I think any financial planner worth his or her salt would look at the big picture of the client's life and goals before answering "yes" or "no" to the wisdom of any purchase. So the point that is being made by Colorado Kid and myself is that TS is not a purchase that is made to invest with the expectation of cash return. It is an investment in your enjoyment, with the returns being years of future enjoyment, in places that are better than where you would stay for the price of your MFs.

I agree with you. The problem is most people, due mostly to jobs, do not have the flexibility to enjoy the TS and the TS industries prey on those individuals. People also need to take responsibilities for themselves as well. They want "freebies" at TS presentations and sales people know that

 

[LannyPC]

The problem is most people, due mostly to jobs, do not have the flexibility to enjoy the TS and the TS industries prey on those individuals.

I would say that the TS sales people prey on people who don't know much about: the TS industry such as resale, the actual resale value of developer-purchased TSs, ever-increasing MFs, and the thousands of owners who are desperate to get rid of theirs.

 

[SteveinHNL]

I agree with you. The problem is most people, due mostly to jobs, do not have the flexibility to enjoy the TS and the TS industries prey on those individuals. People also need to take responsibilities for themselves as well. They want "freebies" at TS presentations and sales people know that

I like the freebies too. I always have nice conversations during TS presentations. I learn some things each time. Interestingly, the conversations are so pleasant that the salespeople never actually bring up a price or try to get me to buy. They just "get it' from the conversation that I know what I have and know what I want, and it never gets to the point of "here's what you can buy." In Maui, I had to chase the sales manager down to get the prices.

 

[ScoopKona]

I agree with you. The problem is most people, due mostly to jobs, do not have the flexibility to enjoy the TS and the TS industries prey on those individuals. People also need to take responsibilities for themselves as well. They want "freebies" at TS presentations and sales people know that

Most of the frequent posters here enjoy the hell out of their timeshare(s) -- we did our homework and bought something that works for us.

Someone who doesn't research, isn't detail oriented, and has unrealistic expectations isn't going to have the same results with the exact same thing I'm perfectly happy with. I have saved, easily, six figures on vacations compared to renting hotel rooms -- that's because I go for weeks at a time and tend to go to expensive destinations. No matter what I do in a year -- stay two weeks, stay a month, stay two months, the cost to me is the same. Approximately $2,000 for my vacations.

Twenty years ago, this was a ripping deal. Now with hotel prices skyrocketing, it's a ludicrously good deal.

 

[e.bram]

Timesharing does not exist today! It's points or clubs! No deeds, you own nothing.

 

[The Colorado Kid]

Timesharing does not exist today! It's points or clubs! No deeds, you own nothing.

I own 8 deeds

 

[Hopi]

I own 8 deeds

Timesharing does not exist today! It's points or clubs! No deeds, you own nothing.

One of the best advices I got was from a RCI agent before Wyndham bought RCI. When I complained about not having to get my search matched and the increasing fee, she told me I should have bought the timeshare week I would use without having to exchange. @Patri

Then I switched to Platinum Interchange that I could get 1 or 2 bonus weeks as @ronandjoan said in this thread:
"Last year, in answer to my request, Platinum Interchange found a deposit for Las Olas in Satellite Beach, FL for me. I was able to use a bonus week since it was within the 120- day window. The bonus week i received when I had deposited may have been 1/2 our MF plus the exchange fee, but it may have been one of the deposits I made to get two bonus weeks, in which case , it would be 1/3 of the MF . Let’s take the 1/2 cost of MF.. our MF here at St Augustine was $550 ( it’s $800 now. ) the Platinum Interchange exchange fee ( and no membership fee) is $129, so that HUGE 2 bd oceanfront Las Olas unit cost $404 for the week last year. ( now with the $800 MF fee the bonus week cost would be $529.)"

I researched what to buy. The 1st advice I learned was never to buy from developers. The 2nd one was not to buy points. The points can be devaluated any time since the HOA is owned by the hotel board of directors or their contract is negotiated with the exchange companies.

Would you please point me to the threads that compare deed weeks and points/clubs?

 

[dioxide45]

@admin Please delete this quote/post.

You can use the "Report" button to request a post to be deleted.

 

[ScoopKona]

I researched what to buy. The 1st advice I learned was never to buy from developers. The 2nd one was not to buy points. The points can be devaluated any time since the HOA is owned by the hotel board of directors or their contract is negotiated with the exchange companies.

Would you please point me to the threads that compare deed weeks and points/clubs?

While you received good first advice, you were steered wrong on the second point. There are hybrid systems where you own a deeded week; which can then be converted into points; which can then be used to rent other timeshare weeks/days, cruises or hotels (although cruises/hotels are not a good use of points).

These offer the best of all worlds -- you know what you own and can use it every year. Or you can relinquish it and go trading. Worst case scenario, you're "stuck" in the week that you own. Best case scenario, you trade your week for a month of stuff elsewhere.

I'm not aware of any thread which compares all the various systems and does so accurately. You'll have to go to the section of the forums for the name-brand hotel timeshares and read how each program works. If any of them interest you, do a deep dive. And then you'll have enough knowledge to ask questions about that system.

 

[jp10558]

Then I switched to Platinum Interchange

How does this work? Do non-system resorts just work with any exchange company? I ask because both Wyndham and HGVC only officially work with RCI, so I have to assume while you could do a direct exchange, they wouldn't do any of the "stuff" they do with RCI to confirm and check in the exchanger. Even for the dual affiliated resorts or other systems, they only talk about RCI and II. Personally I'd prefer if the systems didn't limit what exchange company you could use, but I guess it makes them money doing the exclusive deals they do.

I researched what to buy. The 1st advice I learned was never to buy from developers. The 2nd one was not to buy points. The points can be devaluated any time since the HOA is owned by the hotel board of directors or their contract is negotiated with the exchange companies.

This just isn't true with HGVC - any points that are set now are the same forever. The "devaluation" is MF increases, but fixed weeks have that too. The only time points values are changed that I can see is when they set the points value for a new resort, or if they are aligning points values with an acquisition, where your given points and the trade point costs are multiplied by the same fixed value.

Wyndham is different in that you don't usually own a fixed week, I own an interest in a specific resort however. Or there's CWA that is just a trust system across all resorts I think, or a large group anyway. I still don't think they increase the points value at existing resorts, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Volkyro]

If you ask any Financial Planners whether you should purchase timeshare and the answer is a resounding NO.

I'm not sure why you're discussing your vacation plans with a financial planner. Do you also call him or her for hotel reviews or suggestions on cruises?

This is like asking: are credit cards bad? It is far too generic of a question to give any sound advice. Of course credit cards are bad if you cannot control your spending and rack up a lot of debt, but if you're a responsible human, you can receive a lot of value. Similarly if you just blindly walk into a sales presentation and cannot control your spending, you're almost certain to make a bad timeshare purchase.

Spending a few months doing research allows people to make much smarter timeshare (well everything really) purchases. A quick look around this site will show you many examples of people who are very happy with their timeshares. Does that mean they are all crazy and wrong? No, it means the financial planner is outside his or her element and should stay in their lane. A much better question would be to ask a financial planner: can I afford to spend $2,000 to $3,000 annually on vacations?

 

[dioxide45]

If you ask any Financial Planners whether you should purchase timeshare and the answer is a resounding NO.

I am sure there are financial planners that own timeshare.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Timesharing does not exist today! It's points or clubs! No deeds, you own nothing.

We own 5 deeded weeks with points attached. (Vistana - Staroptions and MVC Abound; Hilton Grand - points attached to each deed/RTU).

We would never own pure-play trust points because those are expensive, too easily manipulated by the developer, and worth nothing upon exit.

I am certain your financial planner would also say to avoid credit card bonus travel hacking. I've stayed at multiple Conrad's Waldorf Astoria's, Marriott W Verbier Switzerland worldwide using free nite certs and points. Stayed at WA resort last weekend where room was $1800/nite. Free room, no resort fee plus free breakfast for us.

Financial planners get sued if they recommend anything that has risk and you can lose $$$. Think about that.

 

[ScoopKona]

I'm not sure why you're discussing your vacation plans with a financial planner. Do you also call him or her for hotel reviews or suggestions on cruises?

When I was selling timeshares, this came up ALL the time. "I need to talk to my lawyer." "I need to talk to my accountant." "I need to talk my pilot on the Gulfstream 550 as I jet out of here after spending two hours at a timeshare presentation for a measly $100 worth of coupons."

It's all a bunch of crap. Basically, "I'm too rich for timeshares so [censored] off." Just one of many standard ploys to get out of buying without having to simply say "No, I don't want to buy." People feel they have more traction with, "I can't buy because I have cancer." Or, "I can't buy because my attorney, accountant and pilot all say it's a bad idea. Although the maid is all for it."

 

[GTLINZ]

I was just quoting what the OP said:

The OP was venting about an industry we all distrust. There have been many great responses.

In this case, SVV can often be booked online for less than the MFs, and certainly the getaways are far cheaper than the MFs. But they could have also done internal trading using that system. Orlando is so overbuilt, but if you are in a good system like that you can do both internal or exchange company trading.

The OP would have benefitted (and still can) by learning on TUG to leverage what the have, or let one of both units go and realize they got a lot of great vacations.

My ownerships have all be beneficial to me, but I found TUG and bought resale after attending an HGVC presentation and wanting to own - then expanding into other systems. I have been shedding recently instead of aquiring due to the "declining value".

 

[Janann]

When I was selling timeshares, this came up ALL the time. "I need to talk to my lawyer." "I need to talk to my accountant." "I need to talk my pilot on the Gulfstream 550 as I jet out of here after spending two hours at a timeshare presentation for a measly $100 worth of coupons."

It's all a bunch of crap. Basically, "I'm too rich for timeshares so [censored] off." Just one of many standard ploys to get out of buying without having to simply say "No, I don't want to buy." People feel they have more traction with, "I can't buy because I have cancer." Or, "I can't buy because my attorney, accountant and pilot all say it's a bad idea. Although the maid is all for it."

"I don't want to buy" leaves the topic open to further discussion about the reasons why the person doesn't want to buy. "My attorney (or whoever) says its a bad idea" is much tougher to argue with, unless you want to get the attorney on the phone during the sales meeting.

 

[bnoble]

When you are asked the same question over and over, it's because the person doing the asking didn't like the first answer. In such cases, I tend to just keep giving the same answer.

"So, let's draw up the paperwork!"
"Thanks, that's all very interesting, but I don't want to buy."
"Well let's talk about that. What's holding you back?"
"Oh, I don't want to buy."
"Really? Can you help me understand why you don't want this incredible opportunity?"
"Because I don't want to."

It's a slightly longer form of "No is a complete sentence."