Deed vs. Trust

[yodaDaenerys]

I am going to an 'update' (sales presentation) at Tuscany Village, Orlando HGVC. I'm currently a deeded MAX owner.

I imagine the only thing they will try to sell me is a trust.

Is there any benefit to a trust, or dual ownership, compared to a deed? I know I won't buy ANYTHING retail in the meeting, but I'd like to be able to reply intelligently to the claims I anticipate about switching to, or adding, a trust to my portfolio.

As I understand it, dual ownership unlocks 12-13 month availability at former DRI properties only for your trust points. Then points can combine at 6 months for both HGVC and former DRI. Is that correct?

 

[HuskerATL]

There are also deeds in DRI but I assume you are HGVC deeded owner so you are HGVClub with HGV Max (since there also is The Club with HGV Max and Extraordinary Escapes with HGV Max). Remember Max is just a program so each ownership (HGVC, The Club, and Extraordinary Escapes (Embarc) ) have HGV Max.

There isn't really former DRI. They are really still DRI with their own system and some of the systems still say DRI, so the decision is if you want to own in DRI. If you look at the TUG Marketplace, folks are giving away DRI Trust points, so if you want the longer booking window, you could take one of those. The downside is that they have high MFs and when you get resale DRI points there are restrictions such as the ability to only use them in your collection but, if you only want access to the Hawaii Collection, for instance, then getting resale Hawaii Collection trust points may work fine. Retail Trust points are expensive. I have seen folks show sales offers of up to$8/pt.....compared to our 0.24/pt with our last three resales.

They would have to give me something that I have no other access to and something that I wanted very much to pay that much for points. Offhand though, I don't know what that would be and I probably wouldn't do it.

 

[ljmiii]

Untangling the twisted knot of acronyms and words Hilton Grand Vacations (HGV) has woven can be challenging.

People often say "deed" when what they mean is Hilton Grand Vacation Company (HGVC). Even though many HGVC ownerships aren't deeded.

And say "trust" when they mean Hilton Vacation Company (HVC...previously Diamond) even though many HVC ownerships are deeded weeks in an individual resort. That said...

At many US HGVC resorts HGV salesreps continue to sell HGVC deeded weeks. It is only at HVC resorts that the only ownership offered is HVC trust.

If you buy a HVC trust product directly from HGV those points can be used at 13 months to book a reservation in the Trust's Home collection and at 10 months throughout the HVC system. If you buy HVC resale you can only reserve in the Home Collection (and/or Home Resort if you buy a HVC deeded week).

The benefit of buying HVC over simply being HGVC Max is indeed the ability to book HVC resorts at 13 months (and/or 10) instead of 6.

As for combining HGVC and HVC points for one reservation, you would have to call in to do so - you can't do it online. I have also read that resale owners can't combine points in this way but cannot confirm this.

 

[HuskerATL]

At many US HGVC resorts HGV salesreps continue to sell HGVC deeded weeks

I have heard of Trust points being sold at HGVC properties though....so I think it does happen as they integrate DRI and HGVC sale's staff.

many HGVC ownerships aren't deeded

I would say that all "HGVC-owned" locations have deeds but some affiliates and managed properties may have RTUs so all HGVC and HC are either Deeds or RTUs and RTUs act like deeds not trust points.

 

[GT75]

Untangling the twisted knot of acronyms and words Hilton Grand Vacations (HGV) has woven can be challenging.

I certainly agree with this statement. Salespeople will certainly use unknowledgeable victims to spin a web of misinformation or certainly not understandable information on how the system will benifit. So, if you understand how HGVC, HC, HVC/DRI, former Embarc and of course HGVMax fit together, you can be prepared to see through whatever a salesperson tries to spin.

For example, at my last owners update, I told the salesperson that I didn’t want HVC trust points nor HGVMax.

 

[HuskerATL]

I certainly agree with this statement. Salespeople will certainly use unknowledgeable victims to spin a web of misinformation or certainly not understandable information on how the system will benifit. So, if you understand how HGVC, HC, HVC/DRI, former Embarc and of course HGVMax fit together, you can be prepared to see through whatever a salesperson tries to spin.

For example, at my last owners update, I told the salesperson that I didn’t want HVC trust points nor HGVMax.

and they intertwine the benefits....

 

[dioxide45]

Untangling the twisted knot of acronyms and words Hilton Grand Vacations (HGV) has woven can be challenging.

People often say "deed" when what they mean is Hilton Grand Vacation Company (HGVC). Even though many HGVC ownerships aren't deeded.

And say "trust" when they mean Hilton Vacation Company (HVC...previously Diamond) even though many HVC ownerships are deeded weeks in an individual resort. That said...

From a retail sales perspective, I don't think HVC sells deeded weeks anymore. Buying direct from HGV, there are really only two products available; deeded weeks at a HGVC property or a trust collection from HVC/DRI. HGV certainly created a mess with all the initialisms, I did try to clear up confusion in a video on my YouTube channel.

I really can't see any benefit to buying into one of the DRI trust for priority. If one wants priority, do the research and determine the best collection to buy resale. Or better yet, buy a deeded week at a DRI/HVC resort and use Dex to exchange. Trust points in almost every system are just trash, especially when bought direct.

 

[GT75]

HGV certainly created a mess with all the initialisms, I did try to clear up confusion in a video on my YouTube channel.

Great video. Keep up the good work.

 

[Chris-ATX]

This is so confusing - which I think it the point. Chum the waters to make it really difficult to hold anyone accountable to anything said in a sales presentation, reduces likelihood of being (successfully) sued. But I have to think the very common names and blending of benefits has to be done to obscure facts and generate sales opportunities.

 

[pedro47]

From a retail sales perspective, I don't think HVC sells deeded weeks anymore. Buying direct from HGV, there are really only two products available; deeded weeks at a HGVC property or a trust collection from HVC/DRI. HGV certainly created a mess with all the initialisms, I did try to clear up confusion in a video on my YouTube channel.

I really can't see any benefit to buying into one of the DRI trust for priority. If one wants priority, do the research and determine the best collection to buy resale. Or better yet, buy a deeded week at a DRI/HVC resort and use Dex to exchange. Trust points in almost every system are just trash, especially when bought direct.

I got up a thumb up for that YouTube video.

 

[cd5]

Embarc is a trust in HGVC that is not at all the same as the HVC/DRI trusts. I don't think Embarc points are being offered outside of Embarc locations although some DRI Points are being offered in our locations as well - buyer beware! Those outside points are usually not enough to get you anything interesting within DRI unless you buy more (typical sales tactic) and would only be useable for HGV Max.

 

[GT75]

Embarc is a trust in HGVC that is not at all the same as the HVC/DRI trusts.

You are correct. We keep forgetting about Embarc. Is Embarc still the correct name for that trust product?

 

[HuskerATL]

You are correct. We keep forgetting about Embarc. Is Embarc still the correct name for that trust product?

Extraordinary Escapes.....but I like Embarc better.

 

[kupool]

From a retail sales perspective, I don't think HVC sells deeded weeks anymore. Buying direct from HGV, there are really only two products available; deeded weeks at a HGVC property or a trust collection from HVC/DRI. HGV certainly created a mess with all the initialisms, I did try to clear up confusion in a video on my YouTube channel.

I really can't see any benefit to buying into one of the DRI trust for priority. If one wants priority, do the research and determine the best collection to buy resale. Or better yet, buy a deeded week at a DRI/HVC resort and use Dex to exchange. Trust points in almost every system are just trash, especially when bought direct.

Fab YouTube video and explanation! Thanks!!!

 

[cd5]

You are correct. We keep forgetting about Embarc. Is Embarc still the correct name for that trust product?

Yes, we're called "the Embarc Collection"

 

[cd5]

Extraordinary Escapes.....but I like Embarc better.

View attachment 96915

Extraordinary Escapes is not the Embarc Club. It is the name of a developer add-on that offered Interval, Luxury Resorts, cruises and other benefits based on only a yearly membership fee when it was Intrawest. Then later only available with purchase of new points from the déveloper, and attainment of certain point levels when Diamond took over in 2016 (they added some "enhancements") and it is now no longer sold as it is being "replaced" by HGV Max even though they aren't being transparent about it. I have had to point out the difference to certain Hilton VPs as they weren't making the distinction and were often applying the EE name to something it isn't...

 

[HuskerATL]

Extraordinary Escapes is not the Embarc Club. It is the name of a developer add-on that offered Interval, Luxury Resorts, cruises and other benefits based on only a yearly membership fee when it was Intrawest. Then later only available with purchase of new points from the déveloper, and attainment of certain point levels when Diamond took over in 2016 (they added some "enhancements") and it is now no longer sold as it is being "replaced" by HGV Max even though they aren't being transparent about it. I have had to point out the difference to certain Hilton VPs as they weren't making the distinction and were often applying the EE name to something it isn't...

So far, that is the language in HGV documents. Maybe Embarc owners call themselves Embarc Collection but the broader HGV calls them EE. That is in all the documentation and Traveler documents that are being sent out to HGV owners.

From the latest Club Traveler and the HGV EE guide:

 

[cd5]

You are mistaken and I believe I know what the correct name is having been a member since 1998 and on the board for 5 years. The Hilton VPs on our board also always refer to our clubs as Embarc not EE - you are mistaking what little information you have about us as a new name having been designated. Here's why I'm sure we're not "EE".
EE is an add-on like HGV Max regardless of what nomenclature Hilton uses in certain documents describing the EE program - it is not the name of our 9 resorts. Your original image has EE at the same level as "The Club" with Embarc above - just as HGVC and HVC/DRI is above their developer programs. EE is the name equivalent to "The Club" for DRI and HGV Club for Hilton. What you are showing as documentation changes nothing about that. Diamond locations are Diamond Resorts, not "The Club". Embarc is not EE, it is legally named Embarc. We have a large number of Embarc members who don't even have EE as it is not mandatory and many have let it lapse or never bought into it. We have an Embarc board of directors not a EE board of directors.
The resorts that could not be renamed HGVC remain "Embarc" not Extraordinary Escapes. We sign into Embarc, not EE on the Hilton website. The directory you show is a supplement to the actual Embarc members guide with additional info concerning the EE program (image attached). Our HOA is called "Embarc Members Association" not EE Members Association. Respectfully, I think that I know what I am talking about here and Embarc has not been renamed EE just since Hilton bought out Diamond...

 

[yodaDaenerys]

You are mistaken and I believe I know what the correct name is having been a member since 1998 and on the board for 5 years. The Hilton VPs on our board also always refer to our clubs as Embarc not EE - you are mistaking what little information you have about us as a new name having been designated. Here's why I'm sure we're not "EE".
EE is an add-on like HGV Max regardless of what nomenclature Hilton uses in certain documents describing the EE program - it is not the name of our 9 resorts. Your original image has EE at the same level as "The Club" with Embarc above - just as HGVC and HVC/DRI is above their developer programs. EE is the name equivalent to "The Club" for DRI and HGV Club for Hilton. What you are showing as documentation changes nothing about that. Diamond locations are Diamond Resorts, not "The Club". Embarc is not EE, it is legally named Embarc. We have a large number of Embarc members who don't even have EE as it is not mandatory and many have let it lapse or never bought into it. We have an Embarc board of directors not a EE board of directors.
The resorts that could not be renamed HGVC remain "Embarc" not Extraordinary Escapes. We sign into Embarc, not EE on the Hilton website. The directory you show is a supplement to the actual Embarc members guide with additional info concerning the EE program (image attached). Our HOA is called "Embarc Members Association" not EE Members Association. Respectfully, I think that I know what I am talking about here and Embarc has not been renamed EE just since Hilton bought out Diamond...

is the resort in mont-tremblant part of embarc? do you have any information on availability of this resort for HGVMax members who are legacy HGVC deeded owners?

we visited there in the summer of 2015, i think it was, and really enjoyed it. we would love to return.

 

[HuskerATL]

You are mistaken and I believe I know what the correct name is having been a member since 1998 and on the board for 5 years. The Hilton VPs on our board also always refer to our clubs as Embarc not EE - you are mistaking what little information you have about us as a new name having been designated. Here's why I'm sure we're not "EE".
EE is an add-on like HGV Max regardless of what nomenclature Hilton uses in certain documents describing the EE program - it is not the name of our 9 resorts. Your original image has EE at the same level as "The Club" with Embarc above - just as HGVC and HVC/DRI is above their developer programs. EE is the name equivalent to "The Club" for DRI and HGV Club for Hilton. What you are showing as documentation changes nothing about that. Diamond locations are Diamond Resorts, not "The Club". Embarc is not EE, it is legally named Embarc. We have a large number of Embarc members who don't even have EE as it is not mandatory and many have let it lapse or never bought into it. We have an Embarc board of directors not a EE board of directors.
The resorts that could not be renamed HGVC remain "Embarc" not Extraordinary Escapes. We sign into Embarc, not EE on the Hilton website. The directory you show is a supplement to the actual Embarc members guide with additional info concerning the EE program (image attached). Our HOA is called "Embarc Members Association" not EE Members Association. Respectfully, I think that I know what I am talking about here and Embarc has not been renamed EE just since Hilton bought out Diamond...

Understood and I agree with what you are saying but, as a non-owner and just reading through what HGV provides us, it appears that the name of the overarching group is EE with the Embarc Collection in it, just like there is The Club with the Hawaii Collection in it and you could probably extend that to HGVClub with the Hilton Club Collection in it (they haven't called HC a collection but, in essence, that is what it is). Diamond properties are within The Club. Diamond is the ownership where The Club is the program...similar to owning at Craig Lodges. You own at Craig Lodges but if you join HGVC, then you are in the HGVClub program. So, I think we are mixing ownership with the programs. Your ownership is Embarc but your program is EE, if I am reading it correctly.

The HOA info doesn't mean much since every property within HGVC has their own HOA but they are still in HGVC. Some properties are only bookable via HGVC but others are bookable outside HGVC such as me contacting Craig Lodges to rent a week directly though them or buying directly through them or exchanging with other owners or exchanging in II, DEX, etc. So, having a specific ownership is different than the overarching program of HGVClub or the even bigger umbrella of HGV.

 

[GT75]

Understood and I agree with what you are saying but, as a non-owner and just reading through what HGV provides us, it appears that the name of the overarching group is EE with the Embarc Collection in it

From HGV Max FAQ:

If I join HGV Max, will I have access to the Embarc Collection?​

Access to resorts within the Embarc Collection, including those that have been rebranded to Hilton Grand Vacations Club, was phased into HGV Max in late 2023. Inventory within the HGV Max program is based on exchange usage among Members with HGV Max benefits to maintain the integrity of the cross-booking platform, so availability at Embarc properties is limited through 2024. As more Extraordinary Escapes Members join and travel using HGV Max, availability at Embarc properties, including those that have been rebranded as Hilton Grand Vacations Club, will grow for HGV Max Members.​

 

[HuskerATL]

From HGV Max FAQ:

If I join HGV Max, will I have access to the Embarc Collection?​

Access to resorts within the Embarc Collection, including those that have been rebranded to Hilton Grand Vacations Club, was phased into HGV Max in late 2023. Inventory within the HGV Max program is based on exchange usage among Members with HGV Max benefits to maintain the integrity of the cross-booking platform, so availability at Embarc properties is limited through 2024. As more Extraordinary Escapes Members join and travel using HGV Max, availability at Embarc properties, including those that have been rebranded as Hilton Grand Vacations Club, will grow for HGV Max Members.​

That kind of makes it just a confusing...since they refer to the Embarc Collection but then as the owners in it as EE members who can join HGV Max.

I guess, if you model it like The Club is set up where you have The Club program, DRI/HVC properties that are in a collection, and the owners are The Club owners...I guess. I am not sure HGV refers to them as DRI owners any more. I know they have Legacy owners and HGV Max owners but not sure how they refer to themselves. I just looked in their newest guide and it isn't very helpful:

 

[cd5]

Understood and I agree with what you are saying but, as a non-owner and just reading through what HGV provides us, it appears that the name of the overarching group is EE with the Embarc Collection in it, just like there is The Club with the Hawaii Collection in it and you could probably extend that to HGVClub with the Hilton Club Collection in it (they haven't called HC a collection but, in essence, that is what it is). Diamond properties are within The Club. Diamond is the ownership where The Club is the program...similar to owning at Craig Lodges. You own at Craig Lodges but if you join HGVC, then you are in the HGVClub program. So, I think we are mixing ownership with the programs. Your ownership is Embarc but your program is EE, if I am reading it correctly.

The HOA info doesn't mean much since every property within HGVC has their own HOA but they are still in HGVC. Some properties are only bookable via HGVC but others are bookable outside HGVC such as me contacting Craig Lodges to rent a week directly though them or buying directly through them or exchanging with other owners or exchanging in II, DEX, etc. So, having a specific ownership is different than the overarching program of HGVClub or the even bigger umbrella of HGV.

I bow to your greater knowledge... Embarc remains the name of our Clubs and EE is nothing but an exchange program that not all Embarc members have - for us at Embarc anyways. I guess you at Hilton can call it whatever you want...You supposedly need to already be in the EE exchange program to get HGV Max (which they have already made many exceptions to) which is the explanation for the quotes GT75 has posted referring to EE

 

[cd5]

is the resort in mont-tremblant part of embarc? do you have any information on availability of this resort for HGVMax members who are legacy HGVC deeded owners?

we visited there in the summer of 2015, i think it was, and really enjoyed it. we would love to return.

Tremblant is one of our 9 resorts and undergoing a remodeling this year. Should be lovely to visit next year once all the rooms are completed. It's one of the 3 most popular destinations for us as it's the largest ski resort in Eastern North America and only 90 minutes from Montreal, so at 6 months out, you won't find much in the summer nor the winter. If you can travel in shoulder-season (April - October-November) you should be able to book - but of course, that depends on how many Embarc members are using HGV Max and have traded into it.

 

[HuskerATL]

Tremblant is one of our 9 resorts and undergoing a remodeling this year. Should be lovely to visit next year once all the rooms are completed. It's one of the 3 most popular destinations for us as it's the largest ski resort in Eastern North America and only 90 minutes from Montreal, so at 6 months out, you won't find much in the summer nor the winter. If you can travel in shoulder-season (April - October-November) you should be able to book - but of course, that depends on how many Embarc members are using HGV Max and have traded into it.

We plan to start exploring these via DEX. There is good availability at the moment at Tremblant, 714 weeks/units available between now and next July plus a Tier 3 for a 2 bed so that is nice.