Considering a MVC Purchase - Requesting Advice

[kiriti121]

Any differences between resale vs buying direct? what benefits do we lose out?

 

[Swice]

My two cents:

We are at the same life stage. Youngest enters college in a few weeks and then we will be empty nesters. Our boys are spoiled by timeshares-- extra space and kitchen. We own two full weeks and a few points (totals 9,000 points if I elect all point usage in a given year).

- We are looking forward to flexibility... and plan on doing shorter stays in studios or one bedrooms too. However, years ago a non-pressure Marriott salesman mentioned (and I've found it to be true) that with long distance trips you're probably going to want to stay for a full week to make the economics work. We live in Charlotte (American Airlines hub) with air service to everywhere, but I'm probably not going to fly to Tahoe, San Diego, Palm Desert or Hawaii for just three or four days. Or even if I do, I'm not going to do it often enough to use up my 9.000 points. We plan to use points for short stays by driving to Myrtle Beach, Hilton Head or even Florida (yes, I've flown roundtrip to Orlando for $30!). I'm hoping to score some short discounted rate stays each fall when inventory is the most open.

- I totally advise against playing too many timeshare systems. You already own Disney. Learning multiple systems is going to be too much of a headache. If you scatter your eggs too much, you will not have enough in your basket to make an omelet and you'll have to settle for scrambled. The days would come when you would be 100 points short for one stay and 200 point short for another. All of the other systems have their pros and cons. Based on our trades outside the Marriott system, we've found Marriott a better quality than some of the others. I do believe the day is coming in which Marriott will somehow combine the points system so the points can be used at Marriott, Westin and Sheraton timeshare properties. So in theory that will open up more locations.

- As others have noted, do not plan to use points for cruises or tours. Yes, that does add an element of flexibility, however it's not the best "value."

- I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the bonus of Marriott Vacation Club is that it's tied to the Marriott Hotel Bonvoy program. (Important to note there are "vacation club/timeshare" points and "Bonvoy hotel" points.) You of course would get a Marriott branded credit card and get thousands of one time gift points. Yes, there is an annual fee but with each year of renewal, you get a "free (cough)" 1-night certificate that when used properly will more than offset that annual fee. The point here is that as an empty nester, a hotel short stay may cover some of your intended timeshare short stays. One of the Marriott branded hotels is everywhere-- so you are not limited to "timeshare" locations. Marriott Springhill Suites, Residence Inns and Fairfield Inns throw in breakfast. Play the game and gain hotel "status" which will often get you breakfast at other Marriott properties. (Yes, I know there is a long long and well deserved list of critiques of how Marriott has downgraded the perks of the Bonvoy program. But for the sake of your situation, some hotel stays may supplement or replace timeshare stays.)

My personal recommendation would be to buy points (forget the weeks program because that's going to add more complexity). Buy 4000-5000 and use them... to learn your habits and needs. That will be more than enough to get a week almost anywhere during high season... or a couple of weeks in lower seasons. Skip some Friday or Saturday nights and you'll save a LOT of points. If you find yourself borrowing future points, then go and buy/add more. Once you're in the system, you'll have access to Interval getaways. Those will be extra "time." What I'm saying is, "don't over buy." You don't want to be strapped to so many points that you find yourself having to use them for cruises or other tours. Save the capital outlay. Enjoy the timeshare stays... and then pay cash for cruises or tours.

 

[FLDave]

My two cents:

We are at the same life stage. Youngest enters college in a few weeks and then we will be empty nesters. Our boys are spoiled by timeshares-- extra space and kitchen. We own two full weeks and a few points (totals 9,000 points if I elect all point usage in a given year).

- We are looking forward to flexibility... and plan on doing shorter stays in studios or one bedrooms too. However, years ago a non-pressure Marriott salesman mentioned (and I've found it to be true) that with long distance trips you're probably going to want to stay for a full week to make the economics work. We live in Charlotte (American Airlines hub) with air service to everywhere, but I'm probably not going to fly to Tahoe, San Diego, Palm Desert or Hawaii for just three or four days. Or even if I do, I'm not going to do it often enough to use up my 9.000 points. We plan to use points for short stays by driving to Myrtle Beach, Hilton Head or even Florida (yes, I've flown roundtrip to Orlando for $30!). I'm hoping to score some short discounted rate stays each fall when inventory is the most open.

- I totally advise against playing too many timeshare systems. You already own Disney. Learning multiple systems is going to be too much of a headache. If you scatter your eggs too much, you will not have enough in your basket to make an omelet and you'll have to settle for scrambled. The days would come when you would be 100 points short for one stay and 200 point short for another. All of the other systems have their pros and cons. Based on our trades outside the Marriott system, we've found Marriott a better quality than some of the others. I do believe the day is coming in which Marriott will somehow combine the points system so the points can be used at Marriott, Westin and Sheraton timeshare properties. So in theory that will open up more locations.

- As others have noted, do not plan to use points for cruises or tours. Yes, that does add an element of flexibility, however it's not the best "value."

- I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the bonus of Marriott Vacation Club is that it's tied to the Marriott Hotel Bonvoy program. (Important to note there are "vacation club/timeshare" points and "Bonvoy hotel" points.) You of course would get a Marriott branded credit card and get thousands of one time gift points. Yes, there is an annual fee but with each year of renewal, you get a "free (cough)" 1-night certificate that when used properly will more than offset that annual fee. The point here is that as an empty nester, a hotel short stay may cover some of your intended timeshare short stays. One of the Marriott branded hotels is everywhere-- so you are not limited to "timeshare" locations. Marriott Springhill Suites, Residence Inns and Fairfield Inns throw in breakfast. Play the game and gain hotel "status" which will often get you breakfast at other Marriott properties. (Yes, I know there is a long long and well deserved list of critiques of how Marriott has downgraded the perks of the Bonvoy program. But for the sake of your situation, some hotel stays may supplement or replace timeshare stays.)

My personal recommendation would be to buy points (forget the weeks program because that's going to add more complexity). Buy 4000-5000 and use them... to learn your habits and needs. That will be more than enough to get a week almost anywhere during high season... or a couple of weeks in lower seasons. Skip some Friday or Saturday nights and you'll save a LOT of points. If you find yourself borrowing future points, then go and buy/add more. Once you're in the system, you'll have access to Interval getaways. Those will be extra "time." What I'm saying is, "don't over buy." You don't want to be strapped to so many points that you find yourself having to use them for cruises or other tours. Save the capital outlay. Enjoy the timeshare stays... and then pay cash for cruises or tours.

Thank you for this. This does align with how I was thinking of using MVC. I have one of the credit cards that give me Marriott Gold plus the 13 days per year towards platinum. Nearly all my work travel has me at Marriott hotels (preferred vendor), so that tends to be where my hotel points collect. I wanted the TS to have the flexibility to get the longer stays with 1+ bedrooms with the kids, but with just the wife, we are more flexible.

As to overbuying, my simple comparison of places had me assuming that 1 DVC point maps to 10 MVC points. When we had 360 DVC, it was too little for what we wanted, and we considered buying another block to get to around 500. That would map to around 5000 MVC points, using my simple comparison. I realize that I am oversimplifying it since they each have locations at different point ranges, but I compared a couple of comparable locations at similar times of year, and this seemed to work. So, I had been thinking 5000 was around the right place for us.

However, I am was not sure how the MVC to Bonvoy conversion works. What is the ratio? Because a typical Bonvoy stay is around 50k Bonvoy points, so I am assuming that there is some conversion ratio somewhere.

Thanks
David

 

[AlmostRetired]

I agree on the kids appreciation point as well. When my wife and I are done with the TS, the kids will be well past college years and enjoying the thrills of taxes and bills in earnest. I had hoped by then they would appreciate the effort more. But, I am an optimist.

Regards
David

My kids are 30 and 33. They are well into there life choices on careers and vacationing. When it comes to family vacations I do fund it but i blame my wife on this. I believe they enjoy going but like the renting points theory, I am looking forward for them paying their own way if for no other reason to test out the reason they go. Only joking, kind of.

 

[FLDave]

My kids are 30 and 33. They are well into there life choices on careers and vacationing. When it comes to family vacations I do fund it but i blame my wife on this. I believe they enjoy going but like the renting points theory, I am looking forward for them paying their own way if for no other reason to test out the reason they go. Only joking, kind of.

I was aiming for the time when my kids are in their mid to upper 30's, so am hopeful you will be able to share a happy end to your tale in the next couple of years. Just to give me hope

 

[Swice]

However, I am was not sure how the MVC to Bonvoy conversion works. What is the ratio? Because a typical Bonvoy stay is around 50k Bonvoy points, so I am assuming that there is some conversion ratio somewhere.
David

Good questions... you are thinking and analyzing.

In short, conversion to Bonvoy points falls under the same category as cruises and tours. You "can" but again you really "shouldn't (anymore)".

Using only points, the current conversion is one timeshare point = 40 Bonvoy/hotel points.

Because I'm grandfathered under the weeks program, each of my "weeks" has an assigned Bonvoy point value-- it was assigned at time of purchase. In the early years, it was a fairly good option. Twenty years ago, I could convert one of my weeks for 120,000 points. At that time my maintenance fee was $700. I could have taken that 120,000 points and stayed at almost any full service Marriott in the world for almost a week. Now if I elect points, as you stated, a stay at a high value full service would be 50,000-90,000 a night. My maintenance fee is $1,400. I would much rather that $1,400 cover seven nights of a two bedroom timeshare stay than a couple of nights in an urban hotel (that's still going to charge me $30 to park and possibly a bogus destination/resort fee).

Timeshare stays do count for Bonvoy status. I have not traveled for work at all this year, but I did work "remote" from Hilton Head for several weeks in late winter/early spring. Combine that with our timeshare spring break and summer week and credit card bonus nights, and I'm already Titanium for next year (I'm lifetime Platinum). So Titanium status is worth "something." You wouldn't get that at Wyndham or Westgate or the other companies. Again-- we will skip the declining by degrees Bonvoy program changes on this thread.

 

[FLDave]

Quick update: I reached out to get some information from Marriott and from the Westin/Sheraton/Vistana side of the house on the assumption that they systems will eventually merge (maybe?). If first impressions are any indicator, Marriott was horrible. The whole tone of the conversation was condescending with over the top false flattery. The result is they would not send me any information until I sat through a 45-60 minute Teams meeting, sent in an email answering a set of questions. There was no discussion of what I wanted, or was interested in. With the Westin/Sheraton/Vistana, the first impression was better. A more pleasant conversation, and they will send me the information I requested. It was an actual discussion around my goals. There was zero pressure to get into a meeting.

Of course, both were looking to sell, but one gave the impression of hearing what I wanted and the other was treating me like a toddler being told the house rules. Not giving me that warm fuzzy feeling.

David

 

[Dean]

Just depends on who you talk to, not the company. Ultimately they are effectively the same company anyway. Just be careful as the route you're going by contacting sales often leads to a much lighter wallet than if you get your information elsewhere which is going to be much better info anyway.

 

[Swice]

What Dean said.

Plus I'll add: Remember Marriott was the buyer of Sheraton/Westin/Vistana. Conventional wisdom says when the products merge/combine, it will be using the Marriott points system and there "COULD" be some kind of buy-in/fee for Sheraton/Westin owners to play with Marriott points. Obviously, we don't know how it will work yet and all is speculation right now.

 

[cp73]

Great questions and well thought out....I think you have several options as you had pointed out. I would go with either of the two least expensive options which would be:

1. Buy a resale week at a convenient resort and try trading with International Interval when you want to go to a different resort. You can buy resale for as little as $3000 for prime weeks to up to $10,000 and higher for a nice ocean view Hawaii week. However, this doesn't solve your stays of 3/4 days. These are 7 day stays. However, owning a deeded week will definitely get you a reservation at your resort.

2. Or buy resale points (I assume 1500 points is minimum) and rent the additional points you need. I have rented points and its easy and you can check your availability before you rent them. Based on your needs two weeks could require points of anywhere from 7000-10,000 per year. You can rent the points for about the same amount you would be paying maintenance fees on if you had owned them. As mentioned the only down side to renting is that if you have to change your plans you must use those points in the same calendar year as your points usage. No carryover to following year. A small price to pay vs the huge outlay if you had purchased the points. The good thing is you only rent when you want to go that extra week or two. No ongoing fees on the rented points if you dont like the Marriott program except for the 1500 original points purchased. I believe these are your best low costs options. After a couple of years you will then know what is right for you without spending $30K-50K trying to figure out the system. Also if you purchase from Marriott directly you've lost at least half of your purchase price the next day. Resale purchases of deeded weeks hold their value the best.

Renting points also requires planning way ahead. Like a year ahead just like if you owned the points. The 3/4 night stays with points is doable but again requires planning way ahead. If you weren't Executive , Chairman or Presidential (7000 points plus) then you have to wait until 10 months for a less than 7 day stay reservation. Problem is that three levels above you have been making reservations since 13 months and all weeks reservations have been done. This problem exists for all points owners under 7000 points. Your best bet would be to have someone who is executive level and above make reservation for you at 13 months and pay them for renting those points.

 

[FLDave]

Finally spoke with Marriott at length tonight, and after much discussion, they are working up a hybrid proposal for a total of 7000 and 10000 points. They claim that they will be able to get to a per point cost of around the $8 mark, and more importantly a lower maintenance fee per point. Plus the bonus points, etc, etc. I am expecting the "weeks" to be some of the least desired locations in their inventory at some of the least desired times of the year.

While they pitched converting points for experiences, the use at all the Westin & Sheraton locations, and promoted how easy it is to get access to anyplace (even Aruba), they flat out said to never convert into Bonvoy points.

Has anyone done a purchase like this? Where are the gotchas that have not been mentioned already?

Thanks again

 

[warm_weather]

Having a long term thought process is the best option IMO. Here are some thoughts on costs. I'm going to assume you'll need 8000 points but that could be low if you're looking at certain locations. I'll use big picture math.

1. Buy the points retail, $80K and fees in the $5K range (same for all points).
2. Resale Points around $40K all in.
3. Hybrid with 3000 points $50-60K roughly, it would depend on the specific resort/week/view for the weeks portion. Fees around $4K depending.
4. Creating your own Hybrid, $32-40K but could be upwards for certain options like Maui fixed weeks. Fees around $4K.
5. Enrolling with a qualifying weeks purchase or a hybrid with a week instead of points should shave a little off the purchase price and reduce fees by a modest amount
6. Buying ONE trading week, buy in say $1-3K and fees about $2-2.5K including II and other added fees.

Great post. I'm exploring these options. Would you mind elaborating on option 4 and 5 to get to 10k points Presidential level?

 

[Dean]

Finally spoke with Marriott at length tonight, and after much discussion, they are working up a hybrid proposal for a total of 7000 and 10000 points. They claim that they will be able to get to a per point cost of around the $8 mark, and more importantly a lower maintenance fee per point. Plus the bonus points, etc, etc. I am expecting the "weeks" to be some of the least desired locations in their inventory at some of the least desired times of the year.

While they pitched converting points for experiences, the use at all the Westin & Sheraton locations, and promoted how easy it is to get access to anyplace (even Aruba), they flat out said to never convert into Bonvoy points.

Has anyone done a purchase like this? Where are the gotchas that have not been mentioned already?

Thanks again

As I said above, this route often leads to a retail purchase and over paying. IF one is looking at a hybrid purchase mainly for points, I'd probably only consider an Aruba or St. Kitt's purchase for a high end week with good points to fees ration AND the perfect "resale" week as he other side like Grande Ocean Platinum or similar. I'd still avoid the retail route if it were me unless they give you exactly what you want even if you went resale with a later enrollment along the same lines and at close to the same total price. For a single Grande ocean week that'd put it at about $40K total with a 1 BR Aruba Ocean Club retail.

Great post. I'm exploring these options. Would you mind elaborating on option 4 and 5 to get to 10k points Presidential level?

the above info should cover #5. For #6, it's the traditional resort to trade discussion and here's my view. Realize a good traditional trading week is aimed at trading M to M so it doesn't necessarily have high trade power overall in II, just medium to above, but combined with the internal trading preference, tends to work well.

To be a good trading week to me it has to be better than average overall trade power, lockout, reasonable to low fees and able to be purchase fairly cheaply. Of late we've seen some amazing deals on things that would be much higher trade trade power, command more return renting and options one might be more likely to actually use routinely (like Ocean Pointe or desert Platinum). But I'll stick to my usual list for simplicity and purity. Those are Harbour Lake, Grande Vista, Grande Chateau, Manor Club Sequal (not original) and Willow Ridge all Platinum plus desert locations Gold. I generally prefer the 2 BR rather than the 3 BR for this purpose but YMMV. Some fit better than others in different specific situations. For example, GC is the best choice if one plans to enroll later, GV is in the FL club and WR has the lowest dues, GC second lowest. 3 also have Thursday start dates so if using for weeks reservations at 13 months out, that's an advantage. GV probably has slightly higher trade power followed by HL and Desert Gold weeks. For some the specific week reserved will matter, esp at WR & Manor Club sequel. GC has a wide range for Platinum weeks which can be an advantage in some situations.

Let's take WR and make some assumptions, again, big picture math. Buy in $1000 all in, fees $1250, lock off fee $100, II membership $100, internal trading (2 weeks) $350, upgrade for trading to two 2BR ($300). So up front $1000 and yearly around $2100. You can shave a little off the yearly in most cases. You can take each resort referenced and plug in the numbers, WR will be the cheapest overall. Desert weeks the most up to $450 or so more for Desert Springs I.

 

[SML123]

I own two weeks at an old 1980’s RCI resort that is very well maintained in a great location on Fort Lauderdale beach - The Merriweather. I paid $100 resale about 20 years ago for a one bedroom week 14 and $500 for a studio week 14 five years ago. Maintenance is $1400 total for both and is quite stable as it’s well run. i could buy additional weeks for $500 each and have considered such. I am an RCI member and esch year I take the 29 points for the studio and 33 for the 1 bedroom and trade for Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, California and Florida, mostly 2 bedroom units for 5 to 30 points per week. Mexico is our go to trade as for under 15 points 2 bed per week we stay at Vidanta or Garza Blanca. so we get 4 to 8 weeks at beautiful resorts. We get a lot more than we give and it’s simple. If I want to go somewhere that’s not in RCI or acceptable, I book a Hilton or Hyatt hotel.

 

[bogey21]

I own two weeks at an old 1980’s RCI resort that is very well maintained in a great location on Fort Lauderdale beach - The Merriweather. I paid $100 resale about 20 years ago for a one bedroom week 14 and $500 for a studio week 14 five years ago.

I did something similar to you at The Silver Seas, a neighbor to The Merriweather, many years ago. Similar economics plus free parking behind the Resort. Location about 200 yards down A1A from the Marriott. Sure, not as fancy as Marriott but look at the stupendous cost differential...

George

 

[DeeCee]

Thank you for this. This does align with how I was thinking of using MVC. I have one of the credit cards that give me Marriott Gold plus the 13 days per year towards platinum. Nearly all my work travel has me at Marriott hotels (preferred vendor), so that tends to be where my hotel points collect. I wanted the TS to have the flexibility to get the longer stays with 1+ bedrooms with the kids, but with just the wife, we are more flexible.

As to overbuying, my simple comparison of places had me assuming that 1 DVC point maps to 10 MVC points. When we had 360 DVC, it was too little for what we wanted, and we considered buying another block to get to around 500. That would map to around 5000 MVC points, using my simple comparison. I realize that I am oversimplifying it since they each have locations at different point ranges, but I compared a couple of comparable locations at similar times of year, and this seemed to work. So, I had been thinking 5000 was around the right place for us.

However, I am was not sure how the MVC to Bonvoy conversion works. What is the ratio? Because a typical Bonvoy stay is around 50k Bonvoy points, so I am assuming that there is some conversion ratio somewhere.

Thanks
David

Hi,

I didn't read thoroughly through the thread, so forgive me if I am repeating or missing some info.

We are also DVC owners at 385 points.

We also own a Marriott legacy week in Hilton Head. It's a gold season 2 bedroom/2 bath. It was a fraction of the cost of the points direct through Marriott. At the $30,000 range for points which were enough for about 5 nights a year, we realized it was a lot of money for a little time. So we went with the resale week instead.

Therefore, we can use our Marriott week in the Spring or Fall in HH which is where we want to go each year (no trading - don't want to pay II for membership, and/or trade fees to trade into other Marriotts) and we exchange our DVC points with RCI to go other places besides Disney. Have you considered or looked into using RCI through your DVC ownership to trade for other places? Perhaps if so, you could put together a smaller Marriott points contract with your DVC membership to do the trips every few years with your family?

Just a quick thought. Good luck with your decision and happy planning.

Dee

 

[FLDave]

Hi,

I didn't read thoroughly through the thread, so forgive me if I am repeating or missing some info.

We are also DVC owners at 385 points.

We also own a Marriott legacy week in Hilton Head. It's a gold season 2 bedroom/2 bath. It was a fraction of the cost of the points direct through Marriott. At the $30,000 range for points which were enough for about 5 nights a year, we realized it was a lot of money for a little time. So we went with the resale week instead.

Therefore, we can use our Marriott week in the Spring or Fall in HH which is where we want to go each year (no trading - don't want to pay II for membership, and/or trade fees to trade into other Marriotts) and we exchange our DVC points with RCI to go other places besides Disney. Have you considered or looked into using RCI through your DVC ownership to trade for other places? Perhaps if so, you could put together a smaller Marriott points contract with your DVC membership to do the trips every few years with your family?

Just a quick thought. Good luck with your decision and happy planning.

Dee

Hi Dee.

We have used RCI a number of times in the past, but have found it harder to find availability at the places we are interested in, and it always seems like the number of points needed keeps growing.

Thanks
David