Considering a MVC Purchase - Requesting Advice

[FLDave]

Hello All.

I am looking for some advice from this forum. I have been a long-term holder of DVC points in Boardwalk and the Beach Club (sold pre-COVID) and finding the use of DVC too limited for non-Disney destinations. My wife and I have looked at other programs and seem to think MVC is the best fit for us. When we looked at places we have stayed, Marriott locations tend to be our normal locations. However, in reading through a number of threads here, some videos on YouTube, and speaking to others I know with timeshares (none with MVC though), I am getting a little confused with the different approaches.

Here is what I want to be able to do:

• Travel around 2 weeks per year
• The two weeks do not have to be consecutive, nor do they have to be full weeks. We are very good with 3-4 days in one place, 3-4 in another, etc broken down over multiple times per year
• We do not want the destinations to always be the same. We like to explore new places
• I would like the flexibility to convert into other types of travel such as cruises, but only if it makes sense (dont want to waste points)
• We have 3 college kids, so when we family travel, we prefer 2-3 bedroom locations. When it is just the two of us, we are good with studios
• When doing longer stays, we like having the kitchenette (mostly just for breakfasts) and laundry (we try to travel light) (this is why we tend to prefer timeshares)
• My wife and I plan to use the timeshare for at least 15-20 years, and would like to leave the timeshare to the kids when we are done using it

So far, I have heard the following guidance:

• Just buy XXX points direct from Marriott
• Just buy XXX points direct from the resale market
• Buy a hybrid with one week and matching points direct from Marriott, then add points through the resale
• Just buy 1500 points direct from Marriott, and the rest from resale
• Just buy 1500 points direct from Marriott, and the rent the rest
• Just buy 1500 points direct from the resale market and rent the rest
• and I am sure there were other suggestions - some mentioning ROFR (which I must admit I do not know / understand fully. I know the core of it, but not what / how the tracking works and how it applies)

So, my request of this forum is some guidance on the following questions:

• Does MVC fit what we want to do? (everything I have seen says yes, but would like to confirm with actual MVC owners)
• How many points do I need? We used to have 360 points with DVC and found it a little limiting and considering upgrading to around 500. However, we opted to shrink our DVC footprint and look elsewhere.
• How many points should I buy vs rent?
• How should I buy my points?
• Any guidance you feel free to share.

I thank all of you in advance!

Regards
David

 

[rthib]

I would do hybrid. If you want to do lots of shorter stays, then you need 7,000 points to hit the sweet spot of being able to reserve 1+ nights at 13 months.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Consider just buying a resale week. It's the best bang for your dollar!

You won't have the flexibility like you will with points but they are a good value for your money.



.

 

[drlee]

Given your stated objectives I'd make the following observations.
1. Marriott's weeks program probably won't work for you, hybrid or not. Interval still provides great trades, but only for weeks at a time, and not an efficeint way to have shorter stays.
2. Given that points would be your direction, you would want to maximize your investment. A little research on where you want to ultimately go might be in order. A minimal investment (say 1000 points) just won't get you much. Most high value properties will require 2000-3000 points per week, Hawaii higher. Understand you may get shorter stays for less, but you stated you wanted to travel two weeks a year, and the short stays will add up.
3. In my opinion, there is no real reason to buy from Marriott, unless their "incentives" work for you. They will give you extra points or discounts if you buy from them, but the extra points are temporary, Buying on the resale market nets you a 40-50% savings from retail.
4. I have no experience in renting points. If you have enough in your portfolio, you can proactively manage banking and borrowing. If for example, if you owned 2000 points, you could use 6000 points using banking and borrowing. Howver, using that many would eliminate two years of use.
5. Understand that using timeshares can be a crapshoot. High value resorts can be hard to get in, and may require effort to get reservations on inventory release dates. This applies to both weeks and points reservations, even though inventory is kept separate.
6. Marriott offers fine resorts, and generally great service. But the investment is not risk free....there is no protection for catastrophe or pandemic, and maintenance fees will increase every year. If you go into this with your eyes open and willing to do a little work, you can have great vacations. Spend some time on this group and learn as much as you can before investing. Take advantage of sales offers for visits, go to a presentation, and learn what's going on. I would suggest no purchase from you on sales visit, but you can learn lots of useful things.

 

[TravelTime]

It sounds like MVC destination points is a good fit for you if you like to vary destinations and go for less than a week sometimes. I recommend buying all your points resale. There is no reason to buy direct from MVC unless they offer you a hybrid package that comes close to the resale price for points. Given you want two weeks total per year, I’d lean toward 7000 points. This will make you Executive level and come with some extra benefits.

https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/pdfs/OwnershipLevelsResources/benefits_at_a_glance.pdf

I think you need at least 7000 points a year for 2 weeks or so. You might end up being short some points if you travel to Hawaii for 2 weeks and/or rent 2 bedroom units but you could rent the extra points when needed. 7000 points resale will be about $36,000 or so ($2.25 pp approx plus $3 transfer fee plus closing costs). I started at Executive level and then upgraded to Presidential level. I use all my points every year but like the extra 6 months of banking. During Covid, I did not lose any points due to the banking options.

I do not recommend a strategy of buying 1500 points and renting the rest. You would need to rent a lot of points every year to meet your goals and there would be no banking. I do not know the ins and outs of renting points but I think if you change your mind about a trip, your options for re-scheduling or refunds are limited.

You are going to get a lot of different advice. A lot of what you decide to do depends on your travel style and how much flexibility you want.

 

[vacationtime1]

You are asking the right questions. But we are missing an important data point -- where do you want to travel? MVC points are wonderful, flexible, and expensive.

For example, if you like Hawaii and want a two bedroom unit for your family, you will find you need a minimum of 6425 points for a week (that's for the old section of MMO during low season; high season at the new villas will set you back 8650 points). If you buy resale, those points will cost you $5-6/pp resale ($32k - $43k; don't even think about paying retail) with maintenance fees of $4,112 - $5,336.

At least for Hawaii, weeks ownership -- or renting -- is far less expensive than DC points.

(Full disclosure: I used to have Executive status in MVC (7000+ points), but I eventually sold my Marriott units because we found that we could stay at Westin timeshares in Hawaii for a fraction of the cost).

 

[FLDave]

You are asking the right questions. But we are missing an important data point -- where do you want to travel? MVC points are wonderful, flexible, and expensive.

For example, if you like Hawaii and want a two bedroom unit for your family, you will find you need a minimum of 6425 points for a week (that's for the old section of MMO during low season; high season at the new villas will set you back 8650 points). If you buy resale, those points will cost you $5-6/pp resale ($32k - $43k; don't even think about paying retail) with maintenance fees of $4,112 - $5,336.

At least for Hawaii, weeks ownership -- or renting -- is far less expensive.

(Full disclosure: I used to have Executive status in MVC (7000+ points), but I eventually sold my Marriott units because we found that we could stay at Westin timeshares in Hawaii for a fraction of the cost).

Hi Robert,

Good point. For us, Hawaii is a one or two time thing. We want to do it, but our repeat travel tends to be continental US, Caribbean (cruising and resorts), and Europe. We do want to visit the pacific region more, but given the travel times for us, they would be longer trips where we probably wouldnt repeat more than a couple of times.

Thanks
David

 

[CPNY]

You are asking the right questions. But we are missing an important data point -- where do you want to travel? MVC points are wonderful, flexible, and expensive.

For example, if you like Hawaii and want a two bedroom unit for your family, you will find you need a minimum of 6425 points for a week (that's for the old section of MMO during low season; high season at the new villas will set you back 8650 points). If you buy resale, those points will cost you $5-6/pp resale ($32k - $43k; don't even think about paying retail) with maintenance fees of $4,112 - $5,336.

At least for Hawaii, weeks ownership -- or renting -- is far less expensive than DC points.

(Full disclosure: I used to have Executive status in MVC (7000+ points), but I eventually sold my Marriott units because we found that we could stay at Westin timeshares in Hawaii for a fraction of the cost).

Agreed. There are better alternatives if someone is Needing that many points from MVC. Other Star option ownerships come to mind.

 

[CPNY]

Hi Robert,

Good point. For us, Hawaii is a one or two time thing. We want to do it, but our repeat travel tends to be continental US, Caribbean (cruising and resorts), and Europe. We do want to visit the pacific region more, but given the travel times for us, they would be longer trips where we probably wouldnt repeat more than a couple of times.

Thanks
David

I’d research other systems before jumping into MVC.

 

[FLDave]

I’d research other systems before jumping into MVC.

I have looked at a few other systems, but Marriott seemed to have the most destinations with the flexibility I looked at. It is very likely I missed something, so can you recommend which other systems would be a good fit?

Thanks
David

 

[CPNY]

I have looked at a few other systems, but Marriott seemed to have the most destinations with the flexibility I looked at. It is very likely I missed something, so can you recommend which other systems would be a good fit?

Thanks
David

Wyndham has many locations with a lot of flexibility. Again, it all depends on what specific locations you want.

I don’t own DC points, so all I would say is try to get a feel for realistic availability by researching and asking owners about their experience in booking desired locations. I cannot speak from experience but I hear places like Aruba are hard to book via points as there isn’t much availability.

If you’re sold on DC points and are ok with the cost associated with Marriott, then go all in! Buy points resale and that’s that.

 

[ski_sierra]

I have looked at a few other systems, but Marriott seemed to have the most destinations with the flexibility I looked at. It is very likely I missed something, so can you recommend which other systems would be a good fit?

Thanks
David

You could purchase some combination of Hilton, Vistana Staroptions, Hyatt, or Club Wyndham to achieve your goals. You will have to look at the properties in those programs and whether they are of interest to you quality-wise and location-wise. It might be cheaper than going the MVC points route but maybe more complex.

 

[FLDave]

You could purchase some combination of Hilton, Vistana Staroptions, Hyatt, or Club Wyndham to achieve your goals. You will have to look at the properties in those programs and whether they are of interest to you quality-wise and location-wise. It might be cheaper than going the MVC points route but maybe more complex.

Thats an interesting option. I had not considered creating a composite program of points between different systems.

Thanks
David

 

[CPNY]

Thats an interesting option. I had not considered creating a composite program of points between different systems.

Thanks
David

Why not just rent out your DVC points and take that cash and rent on marketplace, redweek, etc when you want to take a different trip? Can’t get anymore flexible than that.

another option is a trade of your DVC points. I’ve placed exchange ads in the marketplace before and always without offers. I feel like it is a completely under utilized feature of the TUG marketplace.

 

[FLDave]

Why not just rent out your DVC points and take that cash and rent on marketplace, redweek, etc when you want to take a different trip? Can’t get anymore flexible than that.

another option is a trade of your DVC points. I’ve placed exchange ads in the marketplace before and always without offers. I feel like it is a completely under utilized feature of the TUG marketplace.

I have sold my interest in the DVC Beach Club, so I am down to 150 points in the Boardwalk. My best guess is that similar to around 1,500 MVC points. For the type of travel we have been considering, I think I need closer to 5000-7000 points. Besides, I suspect, we will keep using those 150 points for some short trips to Disney around Food & Wine, and other similar events.

Regards
David

 

[geist1223]

I would suggest you look around at other Point Systems to see if they meet your goals. Such as Wyndham, Worldmark, etc. They will not be the quality of Marriott but they are also cheaper on the resell market. I can not speak to Wyndham. We are Worldmark and DRI Members. Worldmark has 90+ Resorts mainly West of the Mississippi but have added Resorts on the East Coast from PA to FL. They have 4 Resorts in Hawaii, several in Canada, several Resorts in Mexico, 1 in Fiji, one near Yellowstone, 1 coming on line hear Arches National Park, etc.

 

[Mongoose]

Consider just buying a resale week. It's the best bang for your dollar!

You won't have the flexibility like you will with points but they are a good value for your money.



.

If its the location you want, then its really the way to go. If you want ultimate flexibility, this would not be the best bet.

 

[TravelTime]

Thats an interesting option. I had not considered creating a composite program of points between different systems.

Thanks
David

I would not recommend a composite program unless you are into learning a bunch of different timeshare systems. I used to own more systems and sold a bunch because I was overwhelmed with trying to manage them all. I thought Hyatt was the most complex system of all the ones I owned/have owned.

 

[Dean]

Hello All.

I am looking for some advice from this forum. I have been a long-term holder of DVC points in Boardwalk and the Beach Club (sold pre-COVID) and finding the use of DVC too limited for non-Disney destinations. My wife and I have looked at other programs and seem to think MVC is the best fit for us. When we looked at places we have stayed, Marriott locations tend to be our normal locations. However, in reading through a number of threads here, some videos on YouTube, and speaking to others I know with timeshares (none with MVC though), I am getting a little confused with the different approaches.

Here is what I want to be able to do:

• Travel around 2 weeks per year
• The two weeks do not have to be consecutive, nor do they have to be full weeks. We are very good with 3-4 days in one place, 3-4 in another, etc broken down over multiple times per year
• We do not want the destinations to always be the same. We like to explore new places
• I would like the flexibility to convert into other types of travel such as cruises, but only if it makes sense (dont want to waste points)
• We have 3 college kids, so when we family travel, we prefer 2-3 bedroom locations. When it is just the two of us, we are good with studios
• When doing longer stays, we like having the kitchenette (mostly just for breakfasts) and laundry (we try to travel light) (this is why we tend to prefer timeshares)
• My wife and I plan to use the timeshare for at least 15-20 years, and would like to leave the timeshare to the kids when we are done using it

So far, I have heard the following guidance:

• Just buy XXX points direct from Marriott
• Just buy XXX points direct from the resale market
• Buy a hybrid with one week and matching points direct from Marriott, then add points through the resale
• Just buy 1500 points direct from Marriott, and the rest from resale
• Just buy 1500 points direct from Marriott, and the rent the rest
• Just buy 1500 points direct from the resale market and rent the rest
• and I am sure there were other suggestions - some mentioning ROFR (which I must admit I do not know / understand fully. I know the core of it, but not what / how the tracking works and how it applies)

So, my request of this forum is some guidance on the following questions:

• Does MVC fit what we want to do? (everything I have seen says yes, but would like to confirm with actual MVC owners)
• How many points do I need? We used to have 360 points with DVC and found it a little limiting and considering upgrading to around 500. However, we opted to shrink our DVC footprint and look elsewhere.
• How many points should I buy vs rent?
• How should I buy my points?
• Any guidance you feel free to share.

I thank all of you in advance!

Regards
David

No one size fits all. I'll offer a few thoughts in addition or added to what's already been posted. Ultimately the specifics would be make or break to me for this situation. Since you already own DVC you are familiar with the limitations of timeshares and the need to plan well in advance.

My first thought would be that none of the choices you've listed for MVC are the best for many people. Depending on where you want to go, a lockout resale and using II may end up being your best bet. Never buy a timeshare to use points for cash type options like cruises whether it be DVC or MVC, the return is poor to horrible doing so. Depending on where you want to go, how flexible you are and how well you plan; you might consider a "trading resort" purchase or you might consider a destination resort resale purchase then enroll with a retail week purchase (Aruba, etc). You might need 2 weeks or some combination to get two weeks of travel in larger units. Don't count on 3 BR unless it's a resort with a ton of availability like Grande Vista or a lower demand time.

Wyndham would also be a good one to look at, cheaper to get into and reasonable fees if you buy in at a good resort. I would not do multiple system for the stated plans, DVC plus one more is all you should need for this situation. You might also look at Bluegreen, not as many locations but it can be a great option for the right person depending on how you use it.

Specifically I would not buy points from MVC directly and I would far rather you create your own hybrid by buying a good resort and enrolling it if that's the direction you decide you need to go. For 2 weeks a year I would not buy 1500 then rent points. You're giving up too much control and limiting yourself on the usage of those points.

 

[vol_90]

I have sold my interest in the DVC Beach Club, so I am down to 150 points in the Boardwalk. My best guess is that similar to around 1,500 MVC points. For the type of travel we have been considering, I think I need closer to 5000-7000 points. Besides, I suspect, we will keep using those 150 points for some short trips to Disney around Food & Wine, and other similar events.

Regards
David

What's your budget for initial buy-in and annual maintenance fees? This would help with developing options to meet your financial commitment / expectations.

 

[FLDave]

What's your budget for initial buy-in and annual maintenance fees? This would help with developing options to meet your financial commitment / expectations.

I dont have a preset budget, more of achieving my goal and being cost efficient compared to out of pocket expenses of the 15-20 year timeframe. I am assuming a buy in would probably be in the range of 20k-50k, depending on number of points. I am also assuming an annual maintenance around 5k-6k on the high end.

Regards
David

 

[CPNY]

I dont have a preset budget, more of achieving my goal and being cost efficient compared to out of pocket expenses of the 15-20 year timeframe. I am assuming a buy in would probably be in the range of 20k-50k, depending on number of points. I am also assuming an annual maintenance around 5k-6k on the high end.

Regards
David

I’d look for alternative ownerships rather than shelling out nearly $30,000+ for 5000 points. WKV Star options with a lockout can get you what you want. Use Star options for one week IN THE VSN then deposit the lockout for another week in interval. With a platinum WKV you’ll likely pull excellent Marriott inventory via interval. This would save you 15-20K upfront plus roughly $3,000 yearly on your annual fees. I’d do more research before buying 6000 points,

 

[Dean]

I dont have a preset budget, more of achieving my goal and being cost efficient compared to out of pocket expenses of the 15-20 year timeframe. I am assuming a buy in would probably be in the range of 20k-50k, depending on number of points. I am also assuming an annual maintenance around 5k-6k on the high end.

Regards
David

Having a long term thought process is the best option IMO. Here are some thoughts on costs. I'm going to assume you'll need 8000 points but that could be low if you're looking at certain locations. I'll use big picture math.

1. Buy the points retail, $80K and fees in the $5K range (same for all points).
2. Resale Points around $40K all in.
3. Hybrid with 3000 points $50-60K roughly, it would depend on the specific resort/week/view for the weeks portion. Fees around $4K depending.
4. Creating your own Hybrid, $32-40K but could be upwards for certain options like Maui fixed weeks. Fees around $4K.
5. Enrolling with a qualifying weeks purchase or a hybrid with a week instead of points should shave a little off the purchase price and reduce fees by a modest amount
6. Buying ONE trading week, buy in say $1-3K and fees about $2-2.5K including II and other added fees.

If you're flexible and plan ahead, #6 should work just fine. In my book flexible means you reserve a good week and deposit a full year out then plan an on going search (OGS) at least a year out, preferably 13 months out. You have a range of weeks and resorts, let's arbitrarily say you have at least a 3 week spread and 5 or 6 resorts for each search. Of course you could always enroll later and/or add to your portfolio. In your situation LV is likely the best choice for a resale weeks purchase of the traditional trading resorts because of it's points values. Grande Vista would be second because of it's proximity to you and it's FL club options. If there's a resort you'll likely visit periodically, that might make it worth buying something more to use rather than mainly to trade.

Just options to get you thinking about the various possibilities. I still wonder if another system like Wyndham might be best for your situation.

 

[AlmostRetired]

You have thought this through very well.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who is renting points without having the 1+ nights 13 months out status to see how successful that strategy works. I have a legacy week that allows me to exchange it for points (3600). I bring this up because with this I get no level status. Your 1500 points would put you in that same position. I never concerned myself with renting points until the last year. in the last year, I have been trying to rent points for short stays for my wife and I and for each of my 2 boys and their fiancees at various times during the year. It has been impossible (all beach locations prime time). It may be because of all the excess points from the pandemic or maybe the renting strategy with no status works in theory only. This is the reason for my first point on someone being successful at doing this. Unless you get enough proof points, I might stay away from this or do it with the possibility you will need to add more points.

The last year aside, my wife and I do a lot of traveling on our own and try to do family travel with our kids once a year. When it is on our own, it is usually outside of timeshares but it can be a studio within. With 3 kids in college, it will not be too long before they have full time jobs. If not already, they will have a serious relationship or significant other to add to the mix. The complexity of planning increases exponentially between jobs and the and 1. Almost to the point of let’s stop doing family travel (which we have in thought only).

You are starting off with the premise points is your answer and I am not arrogant to think I know better. I can point out what works for me based on my situation. For me, cash offers me the most flexibility. So I own two summer weeks in Hilton Head Island that rents well often turning my 3100 into MF to 5500 to 6000 in cash for travel outside of timeshares. You can use this for week stays inside of timeshares (by renting) or short stays outside of timeshares. We do go to HHI by family choice 1 week a year the last three years but my approach would not stop if we didn’t. Investment 20k.

One last point, my kids all love the benefit of using timeshares but do not understand or appreciate the work. I do not think they would put the effort if gifted to them. They will say they will but my confidence level is low.

 

[FLDave]

You have thought this through very well.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who is renting points without having the 1+ nights 13 months out status to see how successful that strategy works. I have a legacy week that allows me to exchange it for points (3600). I bring this up because with this I get no level status. Your 1500 points would put you in that same position. I never concerned myself with renting points until the last year. in the last year, I have been trying to rent points for short stays for my wife and I and for each of my 2 boys and their fiancees at various times during the year. It has been impossible (all beach locations prime time). It may be because of all the excess points from the pandemic or maybe the renting strategy with no status works in theory only. This is the reason for my first point on someone being successful at doing this. Unless you get enough proof points, I might stay away from this or do it with the possibility you will need to add more points.

The last year aside, my wife and I do a lot of traveling on our own and try to do family travel with our kids once a year. When it is on our own, it is usually outside of timeshares but it can be a studio within. With 3 kids in college, it will not be too long before they have full time jobs. If not already, they will have a serious relationship or significant other to add to the mix. The complexity of planning increases exponentially between jobs and the and 1. Almost to the point of let’s stop doing family travel (which we have in thought only).

You are starting off with the premise points is your answer and I am not arrogant to think I know better. I can point out what works for me based on my situation. For me, cash offers me the most flexibility. So I own two summer weeks in Hilton Head Island that rents well often turning my 3100 into MF to 5500 to 6000 in cash for travel outside of timeshares. You can use this for week stays inside of timeshares (by renting) or short stays outside of timeshares. We do go to HHI by family choice 1 week a year the last three years but my approach would not stop if we didn’t. Investment 20k.

One last point, my kids all love the benefit of using timeshares but do not understand or appreciate the work. I do not think they would put the effort if gifted to them. They will say they will but my confidence level is low.

Much of what you say resonates well. When it is just the wife and I, we can easily use non-timeshares and studios. With the family, it is a more complex matter, and timeshares or rented apartments have worked well. Cash has been the ultimate tool for flexibility, and I have even considered creating a lodging investment fund with the money I would pay for timeshare plus what I would have put into the maintenance and using the dividends to fund lodging. That is my fallback plan if I cannot find a TS that works well for us.

I agree on the kids appreciation point as well. When my wife and I are done with the TS, the kids will be well past college years and enjoying the thrills of taxes and bills in earnest. I had hoped by then they would appreciate the effort more. But, I am an optimist.

Regards
David