Club Dues

[kozykritter]

A follow up question for you. Did Vistana actually remove the duplicate dues from your account so you could just pay the MF’s? The reason I ask is while the rep with whom I spoke said her Manager did that for us, it is still included in the invoice. I called again yesterday and was told that our name is still on the list, but the invoice still hasn’t been updated. I already paid the MF’s. I am still concerned about whether I should pay the duplicate dues and then ask for a refund after they fix the issue. Open to suggestions.

Best regards.

Mike

In my case the invoice was for club dues alone as I had paid my Flex MFs from a different invoice months earlier. That club dues invoice actually never showed up on my account where I could see it so when they told me they went into the system and deleted it, I believed them.

I understand your dilemma and the anxiousness it must bring. The question is would you rather feel that anxiety now by not paying it or potentially hassle with getting a refund issued for it later, which per Vistana is taking them 60 to 90 days or longer to issue. Tough call.

 

[bigbillf]

However will still be charged housekeeping because I made the reservations in 2022. Only reservations made in 2023
and later will not be charged housekeeping. Sounds pretty hokey, because what if you had a lot of 2023 options, and made
more 2023 reservations than housekeeping unit allotment? You'd still have to pay housekeeping for 2023 options even with new 2023 club fee, because you made reservations in 2022?? That's not my situation, and I'm okay with paying housekeeping because I was
using banked options. But would be pretty annoyed if I was using 2023 options.

Yep, this happened to us. We made our Dec 2023 reservation at Nanea, using 2023 home resort options, in Dec 2022 and the details include a housekeeping fee. I am annoyed, but it is only $38...... just about the bar bill at one dinner for me and DW. I will need to call CS in January on this as well as how, if possible, to pay the club dues online as it was not attached to any of our VOI's maintenance fees for 2023 and I cannot find any link on my dashboard to do so.

 

[cubigbird]

I’m reading in a lot of forums people are confused about the Club Dues and the separate billing and are therefore either not paying them or opting out entirely. I wonder how this will affect everything and if MVC planned for this?

 

[dioxide45]

I’m reading in a lot of forums people are confused about the Club Dues and the separate billing and are therefore either not paying them or opting out entirely. I wonder how this will affect everything and if MVC planned for this?

Yes, this is a HUGE point of confusion and people truly don't understand the ramifications of not paying it or opting out. If you don't pay it, and own voluntary only, you are not only out of Abound but also out of VSN. I suspect MVC will have a grace period on defaults of the Club Dues. They need these owners in VSN to help feed Vistana inventory in Abound.

Also, the Club Dues is only AT MOST $125 more than the VSN Fee would be in 2023. And that $125 would only apply to very few owners. I suspect many more would be paying just $60 more and some perhaps only $15 more per year. Tens of thousands spent on the timeshare, thousands on the maintenance fees and this over $60? No one likes increases, but in most cases people will come out ahead due to the consolidated fee structure and no more a la cart fees.

As for the confusion, I am doing my part to try and clear things up, but probably reach less than 1000 owners.

 

[cubigbird]

Yes, this is a HUGE point of confusion and people truly don't understand the ramifications of not paying it or opting out. If you don't pay it, and own voluntary only, you are not only out of Abound but also out of VSN. I suspect MVC will have a grace period on defaults of the Club Dues. They need these owners in VSN to help feed Vistana inventory in Abound.

Also, the Club Dues is only AT MOST $125 more than the VSN Fee would be in 2023. And that $125 would only apply to very few owners. I suspect many more would be paying just $60 more and some perhaps only $15 more per year. Tens of thousands spent on the timeshare, thousands on the maintenance fees and this over $60? No one likes increases, but in most cases people will come out ahead due to the consolidated fee structure and no more a la cart fees.

As for the confusion, I am doing my part to try and clear things up, but probably reach less than 1000 owners.

Your videos have helped but your explanation is exactly my point. There's a lot of discomfort over such a small increase. I'm not sure owners understanding what they are truly opting out of. One could argue Marriott could have done a better job of communicating all of this, but based on how Abound launched shame on us for assuming anything.

 

[dioxide45]

Your videos have helped but your explanation is exactly my point. There's a lot of discomfort over such a small increase. I'm not sure owners understanding what they are truly opting out of. One could argue Marriott could have done a better job of communicating all of this, but based on how Abound launched shame on us for assuming anything.

I really don't know the answer on that one. The thing is though, all the information is out there (now). Hundreds of FAQ on the Vistana website, videos and other resources. A big problem is that people either don't want to, simply won't or don't have the time to pour through it all. Just about every question asked in the Facebook groups (and even here) can be answered somewhere in the FAQ. The issue seems to be how MVC and Vistana disseminated the information. I think it goes back to a very poor strategy or relying on sales to convey the message. Remember their "soft launch"? Really just a way to let the sales people lie about the product to make more sales. Several people here bought more VOIs to requalify mandatory resale weeks, but in the end those that didn't qualify were by far the ones that came out the most ahead. It is quite possible that MVC didn't have all the answers yet when they did this "soft launch", but they simply should have waited.

Then as to the information when it did come out. They needed multiple channels of distribution. Their website is great, but many people might only visit it, at most, two times a year. Once to make their maintenance fee payment and another to make a reservation. Too many emails today simply go to junk or people don't read them. People today have a very short attention span when it comes to information. They want things in small pieces. Thus the rise of TikTok, YouTube Shorts, Instagram, texting and all the other social media that has continued to reduced the attention span of society. Of course much of their owner based probably isn't on these social media platforms. Facebook being an exception, but they could have done a better job to break things down instead of a very bad FAQ that isn't even searchable unless you expand every single FAQ question.

 

[timsi]

@dioxide45 I do not think most people are better off with the all inclusive fee. It is reasonable to assume Marriott ran the numbers and came with a fee that allows the company to make the same profit or MORE. They know how many and how often people use the a la carte fees.

 

[timsi]

@dioxide45 I do not think most people are better off with the all inclusive fee. It is reasonable to assume Marriott ran the numbers and came with a fee that allows the company to make the same profit or MORE. They know how many and how often people use the a la carte fees.

 

[dioxide45]

@dioxide45 I do not think most people are better off with the all inclusive fee. It is reasonable to assume Marriott ran the numbers and came with a fee that allows the company to make the same profit or MORE. They know how many and how often people use the a la carte fees.

True, we don't know the real numbers, but many people arguing against the fee have made at least one a la cart transaction. It usually only takes one to save on fees. For owners who only go to their home resort, the higher fee will cost them more and make MVC more money or at least offset the loss that they see on owners who did have a la cart transactions.

 

[timsi]

@dioxide45 They are not a charity.

 

[dioxide45]

@dioxide45 They are not a charity.

They aren't, but they could see a loss on the Club Dues vs the a la cart fees, but increases in profit elsewhere. In the end, they have to make money and shouldn't be demonized for it.

 

[timsi]

Nobody is demonizing them but we shouldn't glorify them them either. One good reason for the a la carte might be a simplification of the process. Fewer CC transactions means fewer or shorter interactions with the customer service, especially when there are errors. I was always surprised how long it took Vistana to refund few dollars (even pre Marriott)

 

[mjm1]

In my case the invoice was for club dues alone as I had paid my Flex MFs from a different invoice months earlier. That club dues invoice actually never showed up on my account where I could see it so when they told me they went into the system and deleted it, I believed them.

I understand your dilemma and the anxiousness it must bring. The question is would you rather feel that anxiety now by not paying it or potentially hassle with getting a refund issued for it later, which per Vistana is taking them 60 to 90 days or longer to issue. Tough call.

Yes, this is a HUGE point of confusion and people truly don't understand the ramifications of not paying it or opting out. If you don't pay it, and own voluntary only, you are not only out of Abound but also out of VSN. I suspect MVC will have a grace period on defaults of the Club Dues. They need these owners in VSN to help feed Vistana inventory in Abound.

Also, the Club Dues is only AT MOST $125 more than the VSN Fee would be in 2023. And that $125 would only apply to very few owners. I suspect many more would be paying just $60 more and some perhaps only $15 more per year. Tens of thousands spent on the timeshare, thousands on the maintenance fees and this over $60? No one likes increases, but in most cases people will come out ahead due to the consolidated fee structure and no more a la cart fees.

As for the confusion, I am doing my part to try and clear things up, but probably reach less than 1000 owners.

I agree. While we prefer not to pay them to Vistana too, we will do so and see how they handle it. As both of you noted, the extra amount isn’t a big deal in the big picture. We wouldn’t want to jeopardize our position or go through the hassle of reinstating our participation in Abound.

Best regards.

Mike

 

[Mulege]

If one opts out of Abound I understand that there is about a $550 fee to join at a later date. Does a buyer of a resale pay that fee to enroll?

 

[dioxide45]

If one opts out of Abound I understand that there is about a $550 fee to join at a later date. Does a buyer of a resale pay that fee to enroll?

As we know of right now, resale buyers don't have access to Abound. The fee to reenroll after an opt-out is $599 and may also require the purchase of additional VOI direct from Vistana or Marriott. So the cost of opting out could be quite expensive if you later want back in.

 

[Mulege]

As we know of right now, resale buyers don't have access to Abound. The fee to reenroll after an opt-out is $599 and may also require the purchase of additional VOI direct from Vistana or Marriott. So the cost of opting out could be quite expensive if you later want back in.

 

[dsmrp]

Yep, this happened to us. We made our Dec 2023 reservation at Nanea, using 2023 home resort options, in Dec 2022 and the details include a housekeeping fee. I am annoyed, but it is only $38...... just about the bar bill at one dinner for me and DW. I will need to call CS in January on this as well as how, if possible, to pay the club dues online as it was not attached to any of our VOI's maintenance fees for 2023 and I cannot find any link on my dashboard to do so.

Yes, you will have to call Vistana CS to pay club fee, if you only own Vistana (no Marriott). Do not call Marriott CS, cause they have no access to your Vistana account .

I had new links thru my dashboard to pay club dues. It ultimately routed me to the MVC site, but always error when searching for my account. Not everything is integrated yet.
They should have put in a temporary warning dialog window on Vistana site to tell us to call CS to pay club dues. So much for user interaction and experience.

 

[dioxide45]

Yes, you will have to call Vistana CS to pay club fee, if you only own Vistana (no Marriott). Do not call Marriott CS, cause they have no access to your Vistana account .

I had new links thru my dashboard to pay club dues. It ultimately routed me to the MVC site, but always error when searching for my account. Not everything is integrated yet.
They should have put in a temporary warning dialog window on Vistana site to tell us to call CS to pay club dues. So much for user interaction and experience.

Others have reported issues trying to pay their Club Dues on the MVC site. I have a question for you about yours, are you the primary owner on your deeds? I think there is an issue when someone considered a secondary owner is setup with a Vistana.com web profile and clicks through to pay on MVC.com. MVC.com is looking for the primary owner to click through. Still trying to figure out the issue.

 

[dsmrp]

Others have reported issues trying to pay their Club Dues on the MVC site. I have a question for you about yours, are you the primary owner on your deeds? I think there is an issue when someone considered a secondary owner is setup with a Vistana.com web profile and clicks through to pay on MVC.com. MVC.com is looking for the primary owner to click through. Still trying to figure out the issue.

Yes, I guess I could be considered the secondary owner. On Bonvoy my husband changed to Platinum and I'm still at Gold. My husband and I are on the deeds, I think as joint tenants, married couple? We both have Vistana.com accounts. And my husband almost never logs in on his.

I could and did elect Abound points for one of my VOIs, and the redirect links to MVC for reservations worked without error. This was before I elected points.

 

[dioxide45]

Yes, I guess I could be considered the secondary owner. On Bonvoy my husband changed to Platinum and I'm still at Gold. My husband and I are on the deeds, I think as joint tenants, married couple? We both have Vistana.com accounts. And my husband almost never logs in on his.

I could and did elect Abound points for one of my VOIs, and the redirect links to MVC for reservations worked without error. This was before I elected points.

I am hypothesizing that if you had logged into your husbands Vistana.com account and clicked through to pay the Club Dues that it would have worked. No real information to verify this, but one other owner I commented to in a Facebook Group was having similar issues.

 

[DanCali]

@dioxide45 I do not think most people are better off with the all inclusive fee. It is reasonable to assume Marriott ran the numbers and came with a fee that allows the company to make the same profit or MORE. They know how many and how often people use the a la carte fees.

Don't forget that there are also lots of owners who owned with VSN and MVC and now pay a lot less. I used to pay Chairman fee on the Marriott side and the 2+ weeks owner fee on the VSN side. Now I just have the one Chairman fee.

 

[timsi]

@DanCali I am pretty sure they factored that in, they know the numbers.

 

[dsmrp]

I am hypothesizing that if you had logged into your husbands Vistana.com account and clicked through to pay the Club Dues that it would have worked. No real information to verify this, but one other owner I commented to in a Facebook Group was having similar issues.

Misguided or missed use case, business rules logic on MVC's part. And this is not an obscure 'corner' case. Just another symptom of the poor-mediocre execution of their integration.

 

[dioxide45]

Misguided or missed use case business rules logic on MVC's part. And this is not an obscure 'corner' case. Just another symptom of the poor-mediocre execution of their integration.

I would agree... I could be completely wrong on it as well.

 

[dsmrp]

I would agree... I could be completely wrong on it as well.

Yes we could be wrong on this. However for a better user experience, the Vistana site should never have re-directed me to MVC site. When I clicked on "Pay CLUB dues button", it would have been best to show a dialog-info window notifying me to call CS with phone #. Likely the redirect code was already in place, and they didn't want to back it out for a "temporary" situation.