CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[alexadeparis]

@alexadeparis Did it miss something? Was the HRA unit enrolled or retro with a purchase or just the WSJ? The HRA was written as a resale in pen, but it also shows VSE ENROLLED.

Yes the HRA was retroed later after I got it.

 

[alexadeparis]

alexadepris
how many flex points or total $$ spend did vistana requires to retro your svv resale?

They offered 44,000 eoy for $11,xxx, I don’t remember exactly the last numbers

 

[Mroze]

These are the number of points needed to book a week. I don't recall where I saw it, but seem to remember something in the 4,800 or 4,400 range. All Plat+ weeks will elect at the same amount. Just the cost to book varies by the week.

Makes sense that all PLAT+ owners should accrue the same amount of DCP-Points.
Thus, the sheet I was referring to only applies to booking.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Mroze]

They offered 44,000 eoy for $11,xxx, I don’t remember exactly the last numbers

This has been the offer for the last couple of years.

Spend $10K [Flex-Points can vary based on EY/EOY] to retro 1-Unit [SO is irrelevant as you can retro 81K or 148K].
For each additional $5K you can retro an additional unit.
Thus for $20K you could enroll 3 x WKV [148.1K SO] units.

 

[TravelTime]

I think the source corrected himself and said that anybody that was eligible to trade for Bonvoy points would be eligible to convert for DPs. I believe it’s likely that unqualified resale owners of mandatory weeks will be out of luck based on this statement.

I re-read the responses from Denise’s source and I did not see that he said this. If I am wrong and missed it, can you cut and paste where he said this? I remember someone on this thread saying this as an example to try to clarify what he interpreted from the other thread.

 

[TravelTime]

It seems to me that the trust does not have enough inventory in Maui. Maui is booked on the first day it is released within minutes. I would find it hard to imagine that MVC would not want to find a way to encourage Maui owners to deposit their weeks whether it is qualified or not. I can’t help but imagine there will be a way for MVC to make it attractive to get Westin Maui weeks into the trust. I would not buy a bunch of MVC points to enroll because I already have a ton of DPs and do not need more.

If they made it attractive to convert my Maui oceanfront week into DPs, I would actually do that. I would elect to convert every year I am eligible even if I ended up using DPs to re-book back into Maui. The reason I would do this is because I could book at 13 months instead of 12. The other reason is I do not actually want to go to Maui every time I am eligible to travel to use my week. When I do not want to visit Maui, I prefer to rent it out over using Vistana to exchange since I do not want to book at 8 months. Even if I did, I do not love the other resorts that I could exchange back into at 8 months. The little I like is not available at 8 months.

 

[TravelTime]

I have a question about how people “qualify” their mandatory resale weeks within Vistana. Has anyone actually done this? From everything I read on TUG, this is a waste of money.

 

[dioxide45]

It seems to me that the trust does not have enough inventory in Maui. Maui is booked on the first day it is released within minutes. I would find it hard to imagine that MVC would not want to find a way to encourage Maui owners to deposit their weeks whether it is qualified or not. I can’t help but imagine there will be a way for MVC to make it attractive to get Westin Maui weeks into the trust. I would not buy a bunch of MVC points to enroll because I already have a ton of DPs and do not need more.

If they made it attractive to convert my Maui oceanfront week into DPs, I would actually do that. I would elect to convert every year I am eligible even if I ended up using DPs to re-book back into Maui. The reason I would do this is because I could book at 13 months instead of 12. The other reason is I do not actually want to go to Maui every time I am eligible to travel to use my week. When I do not want to visit Maui, I prefer to rent it out over using Vistana to exchange since I do not want to book at 8 months. Even if I did, I do not love the other resorts that I could exchange back into at 8 months. The little I like is not available at 8 months.

But Maui is only booked within minutes for perhaps 15-20% of the weeks, if that. There is inventory that makes it to VSN 8 months. Then that is booked pretty quick too. I think though that with the program, if MVC anticipates 10% of owners electing points, they can set aside 10% of the units from any given week to allocate to Club Point reservations. This is what the DC Exchange Procedures allow them to do.

 

[TravelTime]

But Maui is only booked within minutes for perhaps 15-20% of the weeks, if that. There is inventory that makes it to VSN 8 months. Then that is booked pretty quick too. I think though that with the program, if MVC anticipates 10% of owners electing points, they can set aside 10% of the units from any given week to allocate to Club Point reservations. This is what the DC Exchange Procedures allow them to do.

I was talking about Maui being booked within minutes for MVC’s Maui. All the inventory released at 13 or 12 months gets booked ASAP.

 

[daviator]

I re-read the responses from Denise’s source and I did not see that he said this. If I am wrong and missed it, can you cut and paste where he said this? I remember someone on this thread saying this as an example to try to clarify what he interpreted from the other thread.

I went back and looked and don’t see it either, so I may have misremembered or interpreted someone else's interpretation as having come from “the source.” My apologies.

He says two contradictory things though, he says that anyone who pays a VSN fee will be able to elect DP, and then he says that resale weeks, even mandatory resale weeks (which DO pay the VSN fee) will not be able to elect DC. Both of those statements cannot be true.

I would bet you $5 that the “can you convert to Bonvoy points?” test will turn out to be the right answer to your question, but I don’t think anybody on this board knows 100% for certain yet.

 

[jabberwocky]

I was talking about Maui being booked within minutes for MVC’s Maui. All the inventory released at 13 or 12 months gets booked ASAP.

I don’t think you will be able to book Maui (the Westins at least) at 13 months through MVC.

The underlying deeds only allow owners them to book at 12 months. Even if the trust is the owner, legally they should not have the ability to make it available ahead of other owners.

 

[dioxide45]

I went back and looked and don’t see it either, so I may have misremembered or interpreted someone else's interpretation as having come from “the source.” My apologies.

He says two contradictory things though, he says that anyone who pays a VSN fee will be able to elect DP, and then he says that resale weeks, even mandatory resale weeks (which DO pay the VSN fee) will not be able to elect DC. Both of those statements cannot be true.

I would bet you $5 that the “can you convert to Bonvoy points?” test will turn out to be the right answer to your question, but I don’t think anybody on this board knows 100% for certain yet.

I agree. It was me that made that “can you convert to Bonvoy points?” interpretation and I do think that is how it will play out. Unfortunately, even with "soft launch", we still can't get that one question answered without relying on salespeople that don't give the same answers. The "soft launch" is nothing more than doing what they have been doing for months. The only difference now is that they do have some points charts they can show us, but they won't actually give them out or put them out there yet for people to see. People have to sneak photos while the sales person is away from the desk. Making those available would open them up to too much scrutiny that for the most part will show conversions and requirements to book aren't a very good deal.

I talked to one person today that was at a recent sales presentation and it seems that some sales people are using the new charts as a scare tactic by saying in the future you won't have enough points to book anything. All while never saying that you can continue to use VSN the same as you always had. So this "soft launch" is just a way for corporate to endorse the sales force to pass on more lies and half truths.

 

[dioxide45]

I don’t think you will be able to book Maui (the Westins at least) at 13 months through MVC.

The underlying deeds only allow owners them to book at 12 months. Even if the trust is the owner, legally they should not have the ability to make it available ahead of other owners.

Do you have the underlying CC&R documents or reservation procedures that support this? I suspect those will be needed in order to push back because I doubt they will take this into consideration. We will very likely see 13 month reservations getting made.

 

[Mroze]

I went back and looked and don’t see it either, so I may have misremembered or interpreted someone else's interpretation as having come from “the source.” My apologies.

He says two contradictory things though, he says that anyone who pays a VSN fee will be able to elect DP, and then he says that resale weeks, even mandatory resale weeks (which DO pay the VSN fee) will not be able to elect DC. Both of those statements cannot be true.

I would bet you $5 that the “can you convert to Bonvoy points?” test will turn out to be the right answer to your question, but I don’t think anybody on this board knows 100% for certain yet.

Based on this POST #686, they were shown their contracts at the presentation.
They were informed that their Retro'd MANDATORY week was eligible while their NON-Retro'd MANDATORY week was NOT eligible to Enroll in the DCP-Program unless they purchased FLEX.
I replied in POST #703 by analyzing the sheet posted in #686.

This could be sales trying to sell more.
However, this matches what I was told 2 weeks ago by VSN-Corp.

 

[jabberwocky]

I have a question about how people “qualify” their mandatory resale weeks within Vistana. Has anyone actually done this? From everything I read on TUG, this is a waste of money.

It is the same as you do with a voluntary resale week. Pay $10k for the first deed plus $5k for subsequent deeds to make an additional purchase. Technically they have you sign the VSN agreement as if you were the original owners - I think this is where the term “retro” comes from.

 

[jabberwocky]

Do you have the underlying CC&R documents or reservation procedures that support this? I suspect those will be needed in order to push back because I doubt they will take this into consideration. We will very likely see 13 month reservations getting made.

I’ll have to dig them up when I’m out of vacation mode. I’m pretty sure they are in my filing cabinet at home. I’m one of those weirdos who actually reads the damn things.

 

[VacationForever]

I don’t think you will be able to book Maui (the Westins at least) at 13 months through MVC.

The underlying deeds only allow owners them to book at 12 months. Even if the trust is the owner, legally they should not have the ability to make it available ahead of other owners.

Even if there is document to show that owners can book at 12 months, weeks often show up in II as much as 18 months ahead. Booking in MVC allows for 13 months ahead, which in no way affects owners being able to book at 12 months. You can look at it in terms of different inventories.

 

[regatta333]

Kierland 2BD platinum converts to 4,050 DC points.

 

[Mroze]

Even if there is document to show that owners can book at 12 months, weeks often show up in II as much as 18 months ahead. Booking in MVC allows for 13 months ahead, which in no way affect owners being able to book at 12 months. You can look at it in terms of different inventories.

As an example.

This has been available in II since Feb-2022.

 

[Mroze]

Kierland 2BD platinum converts to 4,050 DC points.

Where do I go to get this information?

Do you happen to know what WLR 2BR PLAT+ converts to?

 

[dioxide45]

As an example.

This has been available in II since Feb-2022.
View attachment 50474

I think Harbour Point though is fixed week fixed unit and owners there get an automatic reservation at 18 months.

 

[VacationForever]

I think Harbour Point though is fixed week fixed unit and owners there get an automatic reservation at 18 months.

SDO and SVR often show up 18 months ahead in II.

 

[CPNY]

Kierland 2BD platinum converts to 4,050 DC points.

Not bad at all considering how low the MF is for that resort.

 

[daviator]

Even if there is document to show that owners can book at 12 months, weeks often show up in II as much as 18 months ahead. Booking in MVC allows for 13 months ahead, which in no way affects owners being able to book at 12 months. You can look at it in terms of different inventories.

Since MVW controls all the moving pieces, they could pretty easily take a reservation that was, technically, a reservation for a reservation, with the official unit booking not occurring until a year prior. They probably can’t do this for inventory they don’t own or control (deeded weeks that have been sold) but could probably do so for inventory they own or control (unsold inventory, trust inventory, etc.)

I'm sure there is some mechanism they could use to abide by the deed requirements while also pre-booking reservations more than a year ahead. It could all be transparent to the user. Then at exactly one year prior to check in, some vast quantity of VOIs get automatically reserved by all those who had pre-reserved them prior. The poor slobs (US) who want to reserve those won’t stand a chance, though this might be a different bucket of inventory than we’d be able to access outside of DP anyway.

It all gets pretty confusing…

 

[dioxide45]

SDO and SVR often show up 18 months ahead in II.

I beleive SBP does as well, but there is some provision there that allows owners to reserve that early too. Not sure if SDO or SVR have similar provisions. Their resorts date back a long time, pre Starwood.