CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[VacationForever]

I don’t see this as likely. The imbalance would be so great there’d be so many Vistana owners unable to book what they own, leading to a PR nightmare and likely litigation.

Ah, Vistana owners can book what they own at 12 months. I don't see it as an issue.

 

[daviator]

I don’t see this as likely. The imbalance would be so great there’d be so many Vistana owners unable to book what they own, leading to a PR nightmare and likely litigation.

I've been presuming, without evidence of course, that Marriott owners will only have access to inventory from Vistana owners who opt-in to DC. So those opted-in weeks or SOs become part of the DC pool, at least for that year, and then Marriott owners can try for them.

For the reasons you state, I can't believe they will open up all of the traditional VSN inventory to owners who are not part of VSN. That just doesn't feel like something they could get away with.

For people who do not elect to opt-in to DC, they will continue to exchange within the VSN pool, which may shrink in both supply and demand, which shouldn't be apparent to those who use it, unless MVC manages to starve it of inventory to the point that it loses viability as an exchange network. Again, this is my best guess. The proof will be in the details which will be revealed on March 14. Oops, I mean March 21. Scratch that, maybe March 24.

 

[Veritoalsol]

My understanding is that Vistana inventory would open at 8 months, and Marriott at 13 months - just as it i today. Marriott does not have “home resorts”. The 12 months window for home resorts in Vistana would remain.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I don't see how they could open up all Vistana inventory to Marriott owners at 8 months while still maintaining the integrity of VSN. Will Vistana owners also have the ability to book all Marriott inventory at 8 months? If not, then there could be a huge imbalance in VSN when inventory starts to get picked off by Marriott owners.

Agree. I hope the accessible inventory is Flex not weeks.

 

[daviator]

Marriott does not have “home resorts”.

I don't believe this is true. Destination Club does not have "home resorts" but Marriott Vacation Club certainly does, even if they no longer sell them. Members of my extended family own deeded weeks with MVC and I'm nearly certain that they have a different ability to book the resort where they own vs. others in the network.

But I don't own in MVC myself so I am happy to be corrected if I'm wrong and am not understanding something.

 

[rickandcindy23]

The only right thing is to keep everything separate as it always has been. That is the right thing. But Marriott doesn't always do the right thing. Look at the mess they made of the hotel acquisition.

 

[mjm1]

My understanding is that Vistana inventory would open at 8 months, and Marriott at 13 months - just as it i today. Marriott does not have “home resorts”. The 12 months window for home resorts in Vistana would remain.

I don't believe this is true. Destination Club does not have "home resorts" but Marriott Vacation Club certainly does, even if they no longer sell them. Members of my extended family own deeded weeks with MVC and I'm nearly certain that they have a different ability to book the resort where they own vs. others in the network.

But I don't own in MVC myself so I am happy to be corrected if I'm wrong and am not understanding something.

Daviator is correct. MVC does have both home resorts and a points system. The points system, which was rolled out in June 2010, is an overlay to the home resort system. If owners of home resorts have enrolled their unit in the points system (Destination Club) they can opt each year to either use their owned week, trade via II, or elect points for that particular year.

It will be nice once the details of the new system are released, so we can stop speculating and get started on learning how best to use our respective ownerships. We own both MVC and Vistana and like both systems. If the new option is worthwhile for our use, great. If not, we will just keep using our ownerships the way we do now.

Best regards.

Mike

 

[VacationForever]

I own in both systems and use them separately as they are. If I have my druther, I would prefer the 2 systems be kept separate.

 

[rcv82]

I think a big question from a Vistana owners’ perspective is whether DC will directly integrate into VSN, or Vistana owners will be like the Marriott weeks owners and optionally convert to DC points for the year, and once that is done you book with DC points and your week is in the DC pool. If you don’t put it into DC you stay with your home use or VSN and your week will not be available to book with DC points. In the end I think the inventory has to balance out either way.


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[VacationForever]

From day 1, I have speculated that the merger will be very similar to the Wyndham-Shell-Worldmark model. We will see if it works the same way. In the Wyndham model, for developer bought contracts/points, it enables cross-book into the other system at 7 months (7 is the number that I recalled). MVC-Vistana can easily do the same at 8 months for "eligible" points.

 

[CPNY]

From day 1, I have speculated that the merger will be very similar to the Wyndham-Shell-Worldmark model. We will see if it works the same way. In the Wyndham model, for developer bought contracts/points, it enables cross-book into the other system at 7 months (7 is the number that I recalled). MVC-Vistana can easily do the same at 8 months for "eligible" points.

I think you’ll have vistana owners converting, until they realize there is less inventory in the DC point exchange for them to reserve compared to the VSN.

 

[VacationForever]

I think you’ll have vistana owners converting, until they realize there is less inventory in the DC point exchange for them to reserve compared to the VSN.

Not really. There are many more resorts and locations in the MVC system. Also, if it follows the Wyndham model, it is not a conversion. It takes x Wyndham points to book y nights in Worldmark at 7 months. If you don't find something available in the other system, then you keep using your points in your own system.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Ah, Vistana owners can book what they own at 12 months. I don't see it as an issue.

Because it eliminates the 2nd pillar of VSE Ownership — the ability to use StarOptions within VSN.
That’s why…


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[CPNY]

Not really. There are many more resorts and locations in the MVC system. Also, if it follows the Wyndham model, it is not a conversion. It takes x Wyndham points to book y nights in Worldmark at 7 months. If you don't find something available in the other system, then you keep using your points in your own system.

If we go by speculation, one would have to convert and give up the VSN that year and play in the DC exchange. If the converted vistana unit gets to book at 12 months then it would be great, but if the converted unit has to wait until 8 or 7 months, there could be problems.

 

[CPNY]

Because it eliminates the 2nd pillar of VSE Ownership — the ability to use StarOptions within VSN.
That’s why…


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Right! Which lets not forget, was a huge selling point to ownership.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Because it eliminates the 2nd pillar of VSE Ownership — the ability to use StarOptions within VSN.
That’s why…


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That's a significant devaluation if true. It would turn mandatory units effectively into voluntary units where you are locked into using your week or renting it out.

 

[Eric B]

If we go by speculation, one would have to convert and give up the VSN that year and play in the DC exchange. If the converted vistana unit gets to book at 12 months then it would be great, but if the converted unit has to wait until 8 or 7 months, there could be problems.

Seems like that would be fairly simple for a deeded fixed-week fixed-unit ownership. It's not entirely clear how it would work for a floating week floating unit ownership, so the devil is in the details.

 

[VacationForever]

Because it eliminates the 2nd pillar of VSE Ownership — the ability to use StarOptions within VSN.
That’s why…


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I don't think VSN can be gotten rid of as it is written into mandatory resort By-laws and Ts&Cs.

 

[VacationForever]

If we go by speculation, one would have to convert and give up the VSN that year and play in the DC exchange. If the converted vistana unit gets to book at 12 months then it would be great, but if the converted unit has to wait until 8 or 7 months, there could be problems.

But this is not in the Wyndham model, as in my speculation. You can cross-book without doing an actual conversion from SOs to DC points.

 

[CPNY]

Seems like that would be fairly simple for a deeded fixed-week fixed-unit ownership. It's not entirely clear how it would work for a floating week floating unit ownership, so the devil is in the details.

Very true. The Vistana fixed week units will most likely be treated like the enrolled legacy weeks, point values would be based on resort/week/unit size. It would be pretty straight forward for what’s being deposited into the DC exchange (assuming that’s the program) when a deeded week owner converts. Unless Marriott controls the inventory deposited there as well.

As myself and others have heard I do think that flex would have a specific conversion rate per SO converted. If Marriott controls what’s deposited from the flex inventory when a flex owner converts, there may be some unhappy Marriott owners If the inventory to choose from isn’t the greatest.

 

[vacationtime1]

I don't think VSN can be gotten rid of as it is written into mandatory resort By-laws and Ts&Cs.

Actually, they can. VSN is not deeded; as you point out, it is in the by-laws which can be amended.

That said, it would be a PR nightmare for Marriott if it deleted VSN. More likely (and my real fear) is that they will slowly, over years, starve VSN of inventory by manipulating the exchange platform. If that happens and I cannot make StarOptions reservations, I will sell my Kierland units and enjoy my Maui OF unit as my only timeshare.

 

[CPNY]

But this is not in the Wyndham model, as in my speculation. You can cross-book without doing an actual conversion from SOs to DC points.

Were the programs in Wyndham, Shell, and Worldmark set up the same as either Vistana or Marriott DC? If I’m understanding correctly, the DC exchange was set up to be an external exchange program similar to that of an Interval International. Therefore, Marriott can add anything they want to that exchange pool. It would make sense and make it easier to just have people jump in the pool with their ownership by converting. They theoretically could add Hyatt and Welk units if they wanted to in the future.

 

[Sicnarf]

My understanding is VSE will continue to exist but Vistana owners will have the option to book MVC units by exchanging their Vistana units with destination points (DPs) on an annual basis. Booking priority will be based on you equivalent elite level in MVC and the MVC unit you can book will be limited to units exchanged to the "trust" unless you buy a minimum of 1000 DPs which will allow you to book all available units in the trust.

 

[CPNY]

Actually, they can. VSN is not deeded; as you point out, it is in the by-laws which can be amended.

That said, it would be a PR nightmare for Marriott if it deleted VSN. More likely (and my real fear) is that they will slowly, over years, starve VSN of inventory by manipulating the exchange platform. If that happens and I cannot make StarOptions reservations, I will sell my Kierland units and enjoy my Maui OF unit as my only timeshare.

I guess as long as there are two units the VSN, the VSN is still “alive”. I have a feeling I’ll be in good shape since I like to book the Harborside and Marriott owns way too many of those units and they can’t take them back from owners. There should be plenty of Harborside units in the VSN. Same goes for WSJ and WLR. I’m also sure not many will give back Maui units so I think the VSN should be in pretty good shape regardless. I’m hoping you have to convert to be in a combined program. That will help the VSN, since that’s no different than owners using what they own and it limits competition from Marriott owners coming into the VSN.

 

[VacationForever]

Were the programs in Wyndham, Shell, and Worldmark set up the same as either Vistana or Marriott DC? If I’m understanding correctly, the DC exchange was set up to be an external exchange program similar to that of an Interval International. Therefore, Marriott can add anything they want to that exchange pool. It would make sense and make it easier to just have people jump in the pool with their ownership by converting. They theoretically could add Hyatt and Welk units if they wanted to in the future.

Worldmark is a pure points system, and Shell is similar although the points are geographically based. Wyndham has both weeks and points. After they all were brought under the Wyndham umbrella and a couple of years later, they enabled developer-purchased points to cross-booking into the other systems but in a shorter booking window.