CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[CPNY]

Worldmark is a pure points system, and Shell is similar although the points are geographically based. Wyndham has both weeks and points. After they all were brought under the Wyndham umbrella and a couple of years later, they enabled developer-purchased points to cross-booking into the other systems but in a shorter booking window.

I do hope that is not how it works out. Let those from Vistana who want Marriott, convert what they own. The only reason why I don’t see this happening is because it would limit Marriott owners from access to Vistana inventory.

 

[KACTravels]

Did they mention eligibility of the program for resale vs. developer purchase and resale mandatory weeks SO conversion?

They did not specifically mention eligibility of resale weeks, but indicated that the sales rules will be common with the current Marriott system. My guess is that they legally can’t change Mandatory Ownership T&Cs, but May have different rules for the eligibility to convert to DC points. We will have to wait for many specific special circumstances.

 

[bbland]

Hi all, newbie here and looking for any help and advice. After staying at Sheraton Steamboat several years in a row we decided to look into ownership. We found the unit we want and the week we want, but curious how that will work if we buy resale now and then it converts to Marriott. We really want the dedicated week. Thanks so much for any and all advice.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

Hi all, newbie here and looking for any help and advice. After staying at Sheraton Steamboat several years in a row we decided to look into ownership. We found the unit we want and the week we want, but curious how that will work if we buy resale now and then it converts to Marriott. We really want the dedicated week. Thanks so much for any and all advice.

Read through this thread. Nobody knows until it actually happens so advice most are giving is wait.

 

[bbland]

Read through this thread. Nobody knows until it actually happens so advice most are giving is wait.

Would you wait to buy or buy now and see what happens? I would assume they would either have to keep my dedicated week or give equivalent points? The chart I found puts this unit at 88,000 points. The Westin in Maui is 80,000 points for 2 bedroom lock off to put it in perspective. The week we love in this particular unit is $10,500 a week and this unit is selling for under $70,000 with $1700 in annual maintenance fees. I would obviously offer less than the listed price, but it pays for itself very quickly. So stressful and thanks again for all of the input.

 

[KACTravels]

Would you wait to buy or buy now and see what happens? I would assume they would either have to keep my dedicated week or give equivalent points? The chart I found puts this unit at 88,000 points. The Westin in Maui is 80,000 points for 2 bedroom lock off to put it in perspective. The week we love in this particular unit is $10,500 a week and this unit is selling for under $70,000 with $1700 in annual maintenance fees. I would obviously offer less than the listed price, but it pays for itself very quickly. So stressful and thanks again for all of the input.

What “points” chart are you looking at? The Westin Kaanapali 2 BD Lockoff is 148,100 Star Options For a week (Non Ocean Front). $70K for any resale seems crazy to me, but I am not an expert by any means on the Colorado Resorts. I do think that if it is a deeded specific week resale unit that will be what you have. It will not be usable in the Vistana system because it is not a Mandatory Resort.

 

[vacationtime1]

Would you wait to buy or buy now and see what happens? I would assume they would either have to keep my dedicated week or give equivalent points? The chart I found puts this unit at 88,000 points. The Westin in Maui is 80,000 points for 2 bedroom lock off to put it in perspective. The week we love in this particular unit is $10,500 a week and this unit is selling for under $70,000 with $1700 in annual maintenance fees. I would obviously offer less than the listed price, but it pays for itself very quickly. So stressful and thanks again for all of the input.

The 80000 and 88000 numbers are probably the Bonvoy point conversion numbers -- something for which you would be ineligible as a resale purchaser and which is a lousy conversion rate anyway. You wouldn't get StarOptions as a resale purchaser either, but if your purpose is to ski at Steamboat, that won't matter.

$70K is a lot to pay for a resale week. Is this a fixed week 7? Is it a fixed week? (I don't know whether they even sold fixed weeks at Steamboat.) Because if it is not a fixed week, you have no guarantee of being able to reserve a prime ski week each year; the winter season includes less desirable December and April weeks. Your math on the purchase price and long-term use only makes sense if you know you will get the week you want every year.

 

[bbland]

S

What “points” chart are you looking at? The Westin Kaanapali 2 BD Lockoff is 148,100 Star Options For a week (Non Ocean Front). $70K for any resale seems crazy to me, but I am not an expert by any means on the Colorado Resorts. I do think that if it is a deeded specific week resale unit that will be what you have. It will not be usable in the Vistana system because it is not a Mandatory Resort.

I'm sure not accurate for points today, but gave me a comparison to what this week is worth across other properties. I'm actually fine with keeping the deeded week in the deeded unit. It's just so hard to get accurate information. I'm not going to offer full price, and will probably try to lowball, especially since this years usage is passed. There are other smaller units in the resort going for quite a bit more than this one. Again, our 1st time in the timeshare world, so trying to get as much information as possible and truly appreciate all of the responses.

Vistana / Starwood conversion: Staroptions to Starpoints

Copyright © 2020 The Timeshare Guru Inc.

www.thetimeshareguru.com

 

[bbland]

The 80000 and 88000 numbers are probably the Bonvoy point conversion numbers -- something for which you would be ineligible as a resale purchaser and which is a lousy conversion rate anyway. You wouldn't get StarOptions as a resale purchaser either, but if your purpose is to ski at Steamboat, that won't matter.

$70K is a lot to pay for a resale week. Is this a fixed week 7? Is it a fixed week? (I don't know whether they even sold fixed weeks at Steamboat.) Because if it is not a fixed week, you have no guarantee of being able to reserve a prime ski week each year; the winter season includes less desirable December and April weeks. Your math on the purchase price and long-term use only makes sense if you know you will get the week you want every year.

It is listed as fixed unit and week and is probably the best week and unit available.. There are a few others listed the same. I'm going to push the company that has it listed to get more information. Thanks again for the input.

 

[vacationtime1]

It is listed as fixed unit and week and is probably the best week and unit available.. There are a few others listed the same. I'm going to push the company that has it listed to get more information. Thanks again for the input.

What you will want is an estoppel from Sheraton (which they call a "Resale Information Sheet"). This is the verification from Sheraton that the unit is what you expect it will be (fixed week, fixed unit, MF's paid up, no loan, etc.). Representations from the broker are meaningless by themselves. You won't get the estoppel until you have an open escrow (Sheraton doesn't issue them otherwise), but it is an absolute essential given what you intend to purchase.

 

[Venter]

S


I'm sure not accurate for points today, but gave me a comparison to what this week is worth across other properties. I'm actually fine with keeping the deeded week in the deeded unit. It's just so hard to get accurate information. I'm not going to offer full price, and will probably try to lowball, especially since this years usage is passed. There are other smaller units in the resort going for quite a bit more than this one. Again, our 1st time in the timeshare world, so trying to get as much information as possible and truly appreciate all of the responses.

Vistana / Starwood conversion: Staroptions to Starpoints

Copyright © 2020 The Timeshare Guru Inc.

www.thetimeshareguru.com

It looks like you are interested in a 3 bedroom platinum(ski) season week at Steamboat. The points you are referring to are Starpoints. These do not exist anymore as this was a convertion before Marriott took over Vistana for hotel points. The points chart you should be referencing are StarOptions. A 3 bedroom platinum at Steamboat will get 257 700 StarOptions. Deeded weeks were only sold in the original villas and not in the converted hotel units. This is a voluntary resort which means you will only be able to use your week or trade it through interval if you want to go elsewhere.
You will have to make an additional purchase to 'make' your week eligible to be like a developer bought week. If you do this you will be able to convert to StarOptions and use those points to trade into the other Vistana resorts at 8 months. See my attached points chart to see what you can trade for.

I have been inside those three bedroom dedicated units and they are amazing. There are probably not many going around so if I was a skier and had the money and the unit was indeed fixed( I think they sold the dedicated units as events weeks - you will have to do due diligence and ask for estoppel and contact the resort), I would definitely purchase this and later try and 'make' it a developer purchase. To give you a rough estimate a 2 bedroom at Westin Riverfront has resale prices ranging from $28 000 to $54 000 for a fixed ski week and it can convert to 148 000 StarOptions. So it sounds like $70 00 may not be a bad price. If it is $10 500 I would jump on this.(I couldn't quite understand what you meant when mentioning the prices).

 

[bbland]

Thanks so mu

It looks like you are interested in a 3 bedroom platinum(ski) season week at Steamboat. The points you are referring to are Starpoints. These do not exist anymore as this was a convertion before Marriott took over Vistana for hotel points. The points chart you should be referencing are StarOptions. A 3 bedroom platinum at Steamboat will get 257 700 StarOptions. Deeded weeks were only sold in the original villas and not in the converted hotel units. This is a voluntary resort which means you will only be able to use your week or trade it through interval if you want to go elsewhere.
You will have to make an additional purchase to 'make' your week eligible to be like a developer bought week. If you do this you will be able to convert to StarOptions and use those points to trade into the other Vistana resorts at 8 months. See my attached points chart to see what you can trade for.

I have been inside those three bedroom dedicated units and they are amazing. There are probably not many going around so if I was a skier and had the money and the unit was indeed fixed( I think they sold the dedicated units as events weeks - you will have to do due diligence and ask for estoppel and contact the resort), I would definitely purchase this and later try and 'make' it a developer purchase. To give you a rough estimate a 2 bedroom at Westin Riverfront has resale prices ranging from $28 000 to $54 000 for a fixed ski week and it can convert to 148 000 StarOptions. So it sounds like $70 00 may not be a bad price. If it is $10 500 I would jump on this.(I couldn't quite understand what you meant when mentioning the prices).

Thanks and yes it's a 3 bedroom in the Morningside tower mountain view. We got super lucky and got one this year and are addicted. There are only 7 of these units in the whole resort. So I guess my next step is to call the resort to be sure how it works and if it's true we will jump on it.

 

[teddyo333]

I'll join the speculation game as well. I think that Marriott owners will only have access to the following:

1. VSN Flex Pool Units (8 Months or Less) - This may be the reason why Vistana/Marriott over the recent years were so aggressive with pricing as long as you traded in a deeded week. If I remember correctly; in 2013 one needed to spend upwards for 20K of new money to bring a resale unit into VSN, then it dropped to 15K and most recently 10K. This in IMHO was designed to increase this pool.

2 . Non Flex Units that convert to DP - This allows the Flex Pool to be dynamic. This also allows customers to have a more "try and buy" feeling about DP Network. If they like it they can permanently convert their deeded units through the purchase in the DP network and now those units reside in the Flex Pool. This will now allow the converted Vistana/Marriott owner to access Vistana Flex Pool 12 Months out.

I do think the DP network and VSN network will remain in place but the cross conversion will give owners the appearance of more options. As far as deed weeks are concerned I feel those individuals that are able to book at the 12 month period will not have to worry about competition with Marriott owners since they will more than likely be limited to 8 Months or less. And those Vistana/Marriott owners that do purchase will only be able to pull from the Flex pool of units. I also feel that mandatory units (used for points only) may become less valuable in the future if more units are moved to the Flex pool (via conversion or Marriott manipulation).

In the end deeded weeks where one wants to vacation may became the best option in either network. Once again this is just my opinion. I'm just joining in the speculation game

 

[jabberwocky]

We arrive at SDO on March 26th. I’m almost tempted to take the $200 they’ve offered to do an owner update and get the news “hot off the press”.

 

[CPNY]

We arrive at SDO on March 26th. I’m almost tempted to take the $200 they’ve offered to do an owner update and get the news “hot off the press”.

Please do it!!!

 

[CPNY]

I'll join the speculation game as well. I think that Marriott owners will only have access to the following:

1. VSN Flex Pool Units (8 Months or Less) - This may be the reason why Vistana/Marriott over the recent years were so aggressive with pricing as long as you traded in a deeded week. If I remember correctly; in 2013 one needed to spend upwards for 20K of new money to bring a resale unit into VSN, then it dropped to 15K and most recently 10K. This in IMHO was designed to increase this pool.

2 . Non Flex Units that convert to DP - This allows the Flex Pool to be dynamic. This also allows customers to have a more "try and buy" feeling about DP Network. If they like it they can permanently convert their deeded units through the purchase in the DP network and now those units reside in the Flex Pool. This will now allow the converted Vistana/Marriott owner to access Vistana Flex Pool 12 Months out.

I do think the DP network and VSN network will remain in place but the cross conversion will give owners the appearance of more options. As far as deed weeks are concerned I feel those individuals that are able to book at the 12 month period will not have to worry about competition with Marriott owners since they will more than likely be limited to 8 Months or less. And those Vistana/Marriott owners that do purchase will only be able to pull from the Flex pool of units. I also feel that mandatory units (used for points only) may become less valuable in the future if more units are moved to the Flex pool (via conversion or Marriott manipulation).

In the end deeded weeks where one wants to vacation may became the best option in either network. Once again this is just my opinion. I'm just joining in the speculation game

If a unit that is In Flex becomes part of the VSN at 8 months how can they determine which of those units Marriott would have access to without giving them access to the whole VSN? Does Marriott take all of those flex units out of the VSN and place them in the DC? If they did that then the flex owners would lose the ability to book units in the VSN or their home resorts.

I have a feeling it’s going to be easier than we all think. I’m expecting it to be more in line with how interval exchange works. You give up what you have for something you want. The inventory becomes available for all in the exchange to book. The conversion will be transparent since we have point values attached.

 

[teddyo333]

If a unit that is In Flex becomes part of the VSN at 8 months how can they determine which of those units Marriott would have access to without giving them access to the whole VSN? Does Marriott take all of those flex units out of the VSN and place them in the DC? If they did that then the flex owners would lose the ability to book units in the VSN or their home resorts.

I have a feeling it’s going to be easier than we all think. I’m expecting it to be more in line with how interval exchange works. You give up what you have for something you want. The inventory becomes available for all in the exchange to book. The conversion will be transparent since we have point values attached.

I see your point. So let me revise my speculation.

1. VSN Flex Pool Units Only (12 to 8 Months with purchase of DP) - This may be the reason why Vistana/Marriott over the recent years were so aggressive with pricing as long as you traded in a deeded week. If I remember correctly; in 2013 one needed to spend upwards for 20K of new money to bring a resale unit into VSN, then it dropped to 15K and most recently 10K. This in IMHO was designed to increase this pool.

2 . Non Flex Units that convert to DP - This allows the Flex Pool to be dynamic. This also allows customers to have a more "try and buy" feeling about DP Network. If they like it they can permanently convert their deeded units through the purchase in the DP network and now those units reside in the Flex Pool. This will now allow the converted Vistana/Marriott owner to access Vistana Flex Pool 12 Months out and all VSN Network properties 8 Months out or less.

In order for either option to work owners will have two accounts (Vistana & Marriott Vacation Club). I own properties in both networks today and have two accounts. The only difference will be that there maybe a utility that allows an owner to convert points from one system to another. This would be similar to what SPG and Marriott had years ago that allowed one to convert SPG Points (Starpoints) to Marriott Points. At the time 1 SGP point was equal to 3 Marriott points. The owner would only have to link the their accounts and perform the conversion themselves.

More than likely it will be less complicated than this like you stated.

 

[CPNY]

I see your point. So let me revise my speculation.

1. VSN Flex Pool Units Only (12 to 8 Months with purchase of DP) - This may be the reason why Vistana/Marriott over the recent years were so aggressive with pricing as long as you traded in a deeded week. If I remember correctly; in 2013 one needed to spend upwards for 20K of new money to bring a resale unit into VSN, then it dropped to 15K and most recently 10K. This in IMHO was designed to increase this pool.

2 . Non Flex Units that convert to DP - This allows the Flex Pool to be dynamic. This also allows customers to have a more "try and buy" feeling about DP Network. If they like it they can permanently convert their deeded units through the purchase in the DP network and now those units reside in the Flex Pool. This will now allow the converted Vistana/Marriott owner to access Vistana Flex Pool 12 Months out and all VSN Network properties 8 Months out or less.

In order for either option to work owners will have two accounts (Vistana & Marriott Vacation Club). I own properties in both networks today and have two accounts. The only difference will be that there maybe a utility that allows an owner to convert points from one system to another. This would be similar to what SPG and Marriott had years ago that allowed one to convert SPG Points (Starpoints) to Marriott Points. At the time 1 SGP point was equal to 3 Marriott points. The owner would only have to link the their accounts and perform the conversion themselves.

More than likely it will be less complicated than this like you stated.

I don’t see see Marriott owners having full access to the VSN at 8 months, well, I HOPE not! I also don’t see how they can force flex owners to buy DP’s when sales has been spinning the only way into a combined program is to buy flex. I think all developer and enrolled VSN ownerships will be eligible. Resales Voluntary/Mandatory will most likely only be in the VSN.

The only thing I know for certain is that I don’t know.

 

[dioxide45]

2 . Non Flex Units that convert to DP - This allows the Flex Pool to be dynamic. This also allows customers to have a more "try and buy" feeling about DP Network. If they like it they can permanently convert their deeded units through the purchase in the DP network and now those units reside in the Flex Pool. This will now allow the converted Vistana/Marriott owner to access Vistana Flex Pool 12 Months out and all VSN Network properties 8 Months out or less.

I think though if one actually elects DC points in a given year from their non Flex (week) ownership, they would lose the ability to access VSN inside of 8 months. Once DC points are elected, you can access inventory that sits in the MVC (DC) Exchange Company.

 

[CPNY]

I think though if one actually elects DC points in a given year from their non Flex (week) ownership, they would lose the ability to access VSN inside of 8 months. Once DC points are elected, you can access inventory that sits in the MVC (DC) Exchange Company.

That’s the easiest thing to do. It could be why the vistana site is so bad lately. They are building the ability to convert and book via the vistana page

 

[dioxide45]

1. VSN Flex Pool Units Only (12 to 8 Months with purchase of DP) - This may be the reason why Vistana/Marriott over the recent years were so aggressive with pricing as long as you traded in a deeded week. If I remember correctly; in 2013 one needed to spend upwards for 20K of new money to bring a resale unit into VSN, then it dropped to 15K and most recently 10K. This in IMHO was designed to increase this pool.

At one time you would actually trade in your week to Vistana and they would sell back points. That changed about 4-5 years ago where they moved to a retro model and no longer took direct trade ins. So, within the last five years or so, they haven't been increasing the pool at all, simply selling new points and retroing weeks. Flex pool hasn't been getting bigger except through inventory that Vistana has been adding via their Responsible Exit deed back program, foreclosure or new inventory (Sheraton Kauai).

 

[teddyo333]

I don’t see see Marriott owners having full access to the VSN at 8 months, well, I HOPE not! I also don’t see how they can force flex owners to buy DP’s when sales has been spinning the only way into a combined program is to buy flex. I think all developer and enrolled VSN ownerships will be eligible. Resales Voluntary/Mandatory will most likely only be in the VSN.

The only thing I know for certain is that I don’t know.

You are right. I meant to state that if one converts a deeded Vistana week to Flex by purchasing DP or Vistana properties (possible option to allow sales present both options to perspective customers). The owner will now have access to Flex 12 to 8 Months out. This would increase the Flex Pool and reduce the deed weeks pool.

As far as access 8 Months out, I hope you are right. But I always like to prepare for the worst case scenario. Marriott will always look out for what's best for their shareholders (maximize profits) over owners.

 

[teddyo333]

At one time you would actually trade in your week to Vistana and they would sell back points. That changed about 4-5 years ago where they moved to a retro model and no longer took direct trade ins. So, within the last five years or so, they haven't been increasing the pool at all, simply selling new points and retroing weeks. Flex pool hasn't been getting bigger except through inventory that Vistana has been adding via their Responsible Exit deed back program, foreclosure or new inventory (Sheraton Kauai).

I did not realize that (learn something new every day). So when a deed is retro'd does in stay in the deeded week pool? My thought process is that they wanted to make options for deeded week owners more difficult. This would push them to purchase Flex eventually since they are unable to book what the want if their pool is smaller. Just speculation on my part.

 

[CPNY]

At one time you would actually trade in your week to Vistana and they would sell back points. That changed about 4-5 years ago where they moved to a retro model and no longer took direct trade ins. So, within the last five years or so, they haven't been increasing the pool at all, simply selling new points and retroing weeks. Flex pool hasn't been getting bigger except through inventory that Vistana has been adding via their Responsible Exit deed back program, foreclosure or new inventory (Sheraton Kauai).

So in reality they have been funding the VSN with all these retro sales? Sounds good to me. Sure there is more competition but that means there are more units to book for the rest of us

 

[CPNY]

Marriott will always look out for what's best for their shareholders (maximize profits) over owners.

This is why nothing will be for free and it will cost everyone a little something or they could just charge per exchange. Want to convert SO to DP, sure, for 99 bucks per transaction.