CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[TravelTime]

I would purchase a voluntary resort. Less money, less maintenance. However, I already have Staroptions. Just saying there are other points of view.

I agree there are many POVs. I own both Vistana mandatory (WKOVRN 2 BR OF) and MVC DPs and enrolled weeks. I prefer MVC over Vistana for many reasons. I would really like it if MVC would allow me to convert my WKOVRN for DPs for low/no cost as long as I was grandfathered in before they ended SOs for resale contracts going forward. The conversion rate for WKOVRN would allow me to get 2+ weeks at great locations for the 1 week I own now. I would not care if the value of my Vistana contract went down if this scenario happened bc I would get so much more value out of MVC DPs.

I suspect the value of a Maui OF resort would not decline too much even if SOs were eliminated going forward. Like someone said earlier, Maui and a few other places have high MFs and the value of using SOs to exchange is not all that great. So I suspect people who buy in Maui buy to stay there or they rent the years they do not go. That is what I did in 2021. I did not go to Maui so I rented my week. I did not want to convert to SOs because of the restrictions on using SOs and the limited places in Vistana that it would make sense for me to visit based on my high MFs.

Someone else said that they think it is unfair that some Vistana resorts are getting better conversion rates than others. To me it is fair. If you bought a mandatory resort just for SOs at a low MF resort in a moderately desirable location, then why should MVC value it the same as highly desirable locations? It would be hard to get someone to pay 8000 points to stay in Orlando or Scottsdale but very common in Maui. Conversions rates and DP cost go hand in hand.

Another person compared the cash rate to go to the Westin hotel in Maui vs Scottsdale. That is not how MVC values resorts. It assigns a DP value and gives a DP conversion rate and they are hand in hand. Like I said above, it is fair because if they give you fewer DPs, it is also less expensive to book in that same resort. So in reality, they are charging DP owners less for the resorts that get fewer DPs. The thing is…Vistana owners with these low cost resorts are not happy that people who are buying into or enrolling in the MVC program can book at a lower DP cost.

 

[remowidget]

This is the question of the day!!! It seems like people will be booking home resort usage and electing conversion to DC points at the same time the previous year . So anyone trying to book home resort use after October might find it difficult if all the good weeks have been allocated to the DC trust. So confusing.

If you want a specific week, book at one year. Don't worry about the rest.

 

[DanCali]

I would really like it if MVC would allow me to convert my WKOVRN for DPs for low/no cost as long as I was grandfathered in before they ended SOs for resale contracts going forward. The conversion rate for WKOVRN would allow me to get 2+ weeks at great locations for the 1 week I own now. I would not care if the value of my Vistana contract went down if this scenario happened bc I would get so much more value out of MVC DPs.

Look at it this way, if they did what you are wishfully thinking the resale value of your WKORVN OF would drop by about $15K (since future resale buyers would have no SOs and no DPs), so think Princeville resale values.

So, if they don't do that "nuclear option" you should be ok with paying an enrollment fee of around $15K... Or you can retro it today for $10K at any Vistana sales office.

 

[Ken555]

The thing is…Vistana owners with these low cost resorts are not happy that people who are buying into or enrolling in the MVC program can book at a lower DP cost.

I am not happy because if I elected to enroll and use DPs I would not be able to trade into the resorts I have been able to for 15+ years.

 

[dioxide45]

I am not happy because if I elected to enroll and use DPs I would not be able to trade into the resorts I have been able to for 15+ years.

Unless inventory drops significantly for those resorts in VSN, if you want to go to those same resorts you would simply not elect to use DPs and book with VSN. Using DPs would be an annual choice, not a permanent election. Unfortunately we don't know how much inventory will be impacted by the new program.

 

[Ken555]

Unless inventory drops significantly for those resorts in VSN, if you want to go to those same resorts you would simply not elect to use DPs and book with VSN. Using DPs would be an annual choice, not a permanent election. Unfortunately we don't know how much inventory will be impacted by the new program.

Yes. We’re just repeating ourselves now…


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[TravelTime]

I just looked to consider switching my home resort week at WKOVRN 2BR OF from April 1st to April 8th. It is booked. Nothing even when I put in flexible check in date. So how can anyone say VSE is that great if I can’t get into my home resort just 2 weeks after the booking window opened? Fortunately I was online right when my home resort booking period opened at 12 months and got it. I looked at every week in March also just in case it is booked because of Easter. Nope, nothing available. Even week of Jan 7th, traditionally a slow week since it is right after Christmas/New Years. Nope, nothing then either.

 

[dioxide45]

I just looked to consider switching my home resort week at WKOVRN 2BR OF from April 1st to April 8th. It is booked. Nothing even when I put in flexible check in date. So how can anyone say VSE is that great if I can’t get into my home resort just 2 weeks after the booking window opened? Fortunately I was online right when my home resort booking period opened at 12 months and got it. I looked at every week in March also just in case it is booked because of Easter. Nope, nothing available. Even week of Jan 7th, traditionally a slow week since it is right after Christmas/New Years. Nope, nothing then either.

Most talking about using VSE are probably not booking prime season. The issue with Maui, and Hawaii in general, is that the entire year gets the same amount of StarOptions and thus also the same amount of DPs. So many owners may elect Club Points to book those cheaper times of the year on the DC Point Charts. VSN somewhat protects against this, but DC points could pilfer those lower cost weeks.

 

[pchung6]

I just looked to consider switching my home resort week at WKOVRN 2BR OF from April 1st to April 8th. It is booked. Nothing even when I put in flexible check in date. So how can anyone say VSE is that great if I can’t get into my home resort just 2 weeks after the booking window opened? Fortunately I was online right when my home resort booking period opened at 12 months and got it. I looked at every week in March also just in case it is booked because of Easter. Nope, nothing available. Even week of Jan 7th, traditionally a slow week since it is right after Christmas/New Years. Nope, nothing then either.

[Perhaps this is a joke, but soliciting is not permitted in the discussion forums.]

 

[TravelTime]

Look at it this way, if they did what you are wishfully thinking the resale value of your WKORVN OF would drop by about $15K (since future resale buyers would have no SOs and no DPs), so think Princeville resale values.

So, if they don't do that "nuclear option" you should be ok with paying an enrollment fee of around $15K... Or you can retro it today for $10K at any Vistana sales office.

I will not pay to enroll my Vistana week but I would get so much value with 8300 DPs compared to 176K SOs. So I am just saying I do not care of the value of that week goes to zero. It’s a sunk cost at this point. I doubt it will plunge since MOC OF 2 BR is still expensive and sells for about the same as WKOVRN. This is just what I prefer. I understand many Vistana owners have different preferences. That is fine.

Princeville is not that great and it’s easy to get with SOs so it is not comparable. It has no beach so it’s basically a hotel with a pool. It used to have the shuttle to the beach at St Regis (renamed to something else). At least then it had easy beach access. Poipu is much better for both location, weather and having a beach right there. From what I know, Poipu is awarding more DPs than Princeville and it will cost less correspondingly to book at Princeville using DPs. I have not seen the chart for Princeville but I have read about what people are saying in this thread about Princeville. Princeville may become more popular with DPs if the DP cost is a lot lower than Poipu. It is a very nice resort IMHO. Just do not like the lack of beach access. I am not into walking a mile to get to the beach or walking down slippery steps. I also recall even when there was shuttle access, the beach chairs for Princeville owners/renters was minimal.

All that said, if we go to Kauai, we might consider a split stay with Poipu but we would not go just to stay at the Westin Princeville. I actually used to own Westin Princeville week 51 but sold it back to Marriott. I just not want to pay MFs on a voluntary resorts that I did not visit much if at all and I am not really into renting except as a last resort. I rented my WKOVRN in 2021 because I was not ready to sell it yet but I am still considering selling of MVC does not allow low/no cost enrollment. I lucked out with Westin Princeville in that I only paid $1500 for that week resale and I sold it back for $2000 (maybe a little more, hard to remember) quickly and easily. But with closing costs, it was either a wash or small loss. I never actually used it. I bought it and changed my mind within months.

All of this is just my opinion and preferences. I know many Vistana owners have difference preferences. That is okay. I just think there must be many more Vistana resale owners who would love the option to convert MVC DPs even if it means the resale value of the resort goes down somewhat. I suspect mainly Maui owners would like this since MVC told me I would get 8300+ per week. With that, I can get 2 weeks or more in a 2BR OF at many other MVC resorts. That is a much better value than what I have now. Maybe that is why they were trying to get me to pay $15K for 1000 DPs plus enrolling my week (5200 DPs). That came out to approx approx $5.75 pp but I do not want to outlay $15K after paying $12,500 plus closing costs already esp since I can already use SOs if I want to trade to another resort and I already have DPs to use everywhere else. If I had an annual and they allowed enrollment for $15K, I think I might do it for 9200 DPs annually. But not for 5200 EOY. (My exact numbers may be off a little.)

 

[TravelTime]

Most talking about using VSE are probably not booking prime season. The issue with Maui, and Hawaii in general, is that the entire year gets the same amount of StarOptions and thus also the same amount of DPs. So many owners may elect Club Points to book those cheaper times of the year on the DC Point Charts. VSN somewhat protects against this, but DC points could pilfer those lower cost weeks.

I get it but as an owner of WKOVRN, I would expect to get almost any week I want at…or close to 12 months out. If people do not own at a specific resort, then it makes total sense the best weeks at hardest to book locations would be taken by the 8 month mark. Not sure why they would complain as a non-owner. Exchanging with SOs into a resort you do not own is a privilege and IMO should not be viewed as an entitlement if you are not an owner.

 

[TravelTime]

[Perhaps this is a joke, but soliciting is not permitted in the discussion forums.]

Haaaa…How was that soliciting? I said it is hard to book a week at my home resort near the 12 month mark. Is your comment a joke?

I do recall in one comment that I said I was considering selling my week but I was waiting to see what the integration was. Maybe you are referring to that comment? I can’t find the comment or I would delete it now if I said it. Anyway, I do not see that as a solicitation since I would not sell to anyone on TUG and no one here needs to buy from me since there are many similar weeks on Redweek. Plus I am not selling right now anyway and I made that clear in the comment. My point has been that Vistana is not my favorite program compared to MVC. That’s it.

 

[TravelTime]

Look at it this way, if they did what you are wishfully thinking the resale value of your WKORVN OF would drop by about $15K (since future resale buyers would have no SOs and no DPs), so think Princeville resale values.

So, if they don't do that "nuclear option" you should be ok with paying an enrollment fee of around $15K... Or you can retro it today for $10K at any Vistana sales office.

I did not realize I could retro it for $10K. Interesting option. I might consider that after I know what the new integrated program is like. I do like getting 8300+ DPs but still now sure I want more out of pocket expenses.

 

[DanCali]

I did not realize I could retro it for $10K. Interesting option. I might consider that after I know what the new integrated program is like. I do like getting 8300+ DPs but still now sure I want more out of pocket expenses.

The retro with require you to buy a bunch of flex points. By the time you know the details of the new program, there may not be any more opportunity to retro with Vistana as they may be doing only destination points by then.

Of course there is still the speculation that mandatory resorts will be allowed into the DC, so it may not be necessary at all…


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[TravelTime]

The retro with require you to buy a bunch of flex points. By the time you know the details of the new program, there may not be any more opportunity to retro with Vistana as they may be doing only destination points by then.

Of course there is still the speculation that mandatory resorts will be allowed into the DC, so it may not be necessary at all…


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Oh okay. I doubt I would do that. Like I said, I do not want more cash outlay right now. I already have trouble using what I own.

 

[remowidget]

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[Ken555]

I will not pay to enroll my Vistana week but I would get so much value with 8300 DPs compared to 176K SOs.

Objectively, the true benefit of your week is that you have an ocean front unit in Maui. The SOs are somewhat meaningless since anything would be a trade "down" for you. Of course, you seem to think there is more benefit with DPs...and you can certainly go for a longer period of time (I believe) with the DPs instead of using your week...but I doubt you would get as nice a unit with as nice a view and have it be ocean front anywhere else.

But you keep proving the point that timeshares have many ways to use, and it's not a one size fits all proposition. Use it as best you can for your own purposes! No matter what, I hope you enjoy it.

And next time you're in Maui be sure to check out the reef three feet out by the resort!

 

[rickandcindy23]

I would never agree to these terms because it would kill the resale value of the unit. Units that hold back and keep such benefits would become even more valuable than before.

I agree. I would never devalue our Westin weeks by moving them to anything Marriott. I wish they would just leave the systems separate. This is such a crazy idea to me.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@TravelTime We own a similar unit at WKORVN. Re: the DP values for 2 weeks, are those 2 bdrm premium units in prime Oceanfront locations? or are they two weeks in smaller units with no view?

Remember you can lock off your WKORVN and get two weeks out of each side of the unit. Locking off gives you 2 weeks of Oceanfront Maui.

Best of all it costs very little to lock-off relative to enrolling in DP. Free is free...

 

[Captron]

agreed, I was about to ask @DavidnRobin about their GoPro as I’m going to bora bora and am thinking about buying one but not so sure. I also didn’t want to hijack the thread so I turned to google. But while I’m writing, how do you like the GoPro? I hear the battery doesn’t last at all.

I have had my Gopro 9 Black (or 10? -the one with the front color screen) out white water rafting with some cliff jumping. I love it. The battery life is not really that bad. There are also many aftermarket batteries available that are cheaper but last slightly shorter than the GoPro batteries. I got mine as a package from Costco. The price was the same as elsewhere but came with a case, extra battery, and some other bonuses. I hope this helps.

 

[CPNY]

I have had my Gopro 9 Black (or 10? -the one with the front color screen) out white water rafting with some cliff jumping. I love it. The battery life is not really that bad. There are also many aftermarket batteries available that are cheaper but last slightly shorter than the GoPro batteries. I got mine as a package from Costco. The price was the same as elsewhere but came with a case, extra battery, and some other bonuses. I hope this helps.

Thanks! I just got mine and can’t wait to use it for all of my timeshare adventures! I got 3 batteries and a slew of accessories. I hope the extreme plus SD card is good enough at 256gb.

 

[VacationForever]

Marriott also tightened their resale rules in 2010. So who knows what is really going to happen or what is really the case legally. I do not know for sure since I was not a MVC owner in 2010, but someone else may be able to comment on whether the resale values plunged after 2010 due to this change. Also wondering if there were any lawsuits then since MVC’s change probably affected the value of reselling weeks contracts.

I didn't own MVC before June 2010 but MVC did not tighten resale rules post June 2010. MVC owners could only utilize II for exchanges before DC program was introduced. So owners GAINED additional option for internal trading. You can't lose what you never had in the first place.

 

[TravelTime]

@TravelTime We own a similar unit at WKORVN. Re: the DP values for 2 weeks, are those 2 bdrm premium units in prime Oceanfront locations? or are they two weeks in smaller units with no view?

Remember you can lock off your WKORVN and get two weeks out of each side of the unit. Locking off gives you 2 weeks of Oceanfront Maui.

Best of all it costs very little to lock-off relative to enrolling in DP. Free is free...

If you lock off at WKOVRN OF 2 BR, you would get a 1BR and studio. I would never use a studio even for just my husband and me. With SOs, at some nice locations, it is possible to get a 1 BR for 81,000 SOs but off season and at 8 months assuming stuff is left. Now we have 2 kids so we could only use a 2 BR.

With DPs, if it is true you can get 8300 DPs for a WKOVRN OF 2 BR, you could actually use 3900 DPs for a 2BR OF at the Ritz St Thomas so you could get 2 weeks there in June/July before hurricane season and still have some DPs left over. You can book this at 13 months, which I did last year and I have 15 nights there coming up this June. It was 8,000 DPs for 15 nights. This is less than 8300 that we would get for WKOVRN OF 2BR and we are getting more than double the nights. This is just an example. There are other nice beachfront resorts that have a similar DP value for 2BR OF or island view. I tend to go for ocean view. Even at Ko Olina, you can get OV (they do not have OF category but OV is like OF at Ko Olina) which is spectacular for 4900-5800 DPs per week. So you could easily get 1.5 weeks for sure in 2 BR ocean view at many locations and 2+ weeks at some locations.

 

[TravelTime]

I didn't own MVC before June 2010 but MVC did not tighten resale rules post June 2010. MVC owners could only utilize II for exchanges before DC program was introduced. So owners GAINED additional option for internal trading. You can't lose what you never had in the first place.

I thought if you owned a MVC week prior to 2010, you could enroll it to exchange for DPs for $595 or something like that. If you purchased after 2010, then it was devalued because you would need to spend tens of thousands of dollars to enroll for DPs. To me that is tightening up the resale rules. Did I misunderstand something?

 

[VacationForever]

I thought if you owned a MVC week prior to 2010, you could enroll it to exchange for DPs for $595 or something like that. If you purchased after 2010, then it was devalued because you would need to spend tens of thousands of dollars to enroll for DPs. To me that is tightening up the resale rules. Did I misunderstand something?

But you were talking about DC program causing resale weeks devaluation. In 2009, Marriott weeks could only use II to trade. They had no clue that they were going to get an internal trading system. If I buy a resale week now, I also have the option to use II to trade.

Owners, retail and resale purchase, before DC program got the benefit of being able to enroll.