CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[dioxide45]

So if this is true. What does OPs "authorize 4 WKORV OF" mean? It is already mandatory resale. The resale value is good and the units rent so well they would likely do better renting the units out and using the rent profit to pay for Europe hotels. They should never trade or transition these high value units for Bonvoy points (bad deal).

So they get elite credit + one more MF for life for the 1 bdrm for "only" $25k? IMHO....Sounds like bad deal especially since they don't plan to stay there and Bonvoy elite can be had via a credit card. On top of that you have to pay $1800 x 4 for the Bonvoy points? Travel blogs are full of stories that Bonvoy Elite benefits are flaky and vary by hotel. Run away.

Authorizing them just means they can now count the SOs toward Elite levels and they can convert the weeks to Bonvoy. The StarOptions can also be used for other services like Resort Credit and Cruises. Mandatory unauthorized resales can't do those things.

 

[vincedee]

I'm a current owner of 67k ish points (studio ish) at Nanea relatively new member. I got a sales rep call for upgrading to the flex option which includes a group of different properties up to 81k points (1 bedroom full week). usual sales rep tactic saying this deal might not be available for long with the Marriott merger. They also mentioned that exclusive 8 to 12 month booking window will be honored for these Westin Properties when the merger completes (not sure if that is BS or not). I was already looking to purchase Marriott as it had additional properties that I was interested in. I was curious if it would be worth the upgrade or should I wait to see how the merger works out in terms of points?

 

[daviator]

I'm a current owner of 67k ish points (studio ish) at Nanea relatively new member. I got a sales rep call for upgrading to the flex option which includes a group of different properties up to 81k points (1 bedroom full week). usual sales rep tactic saying this deal might not be available for long with the Marriott merger. They also mentioned that exclusive 8 to 12 month booking window will be honored for these Westin Properties when the merger completes (not sure if that is BS or not). I was already looking to purchase Marriott as it had additional properties that I was interested in. I was curious if it would be worth the upgrade or should I wait to see how the merger works out in terms of points?

in my opinion, you should wait and see what happens. In particular, if you like Nanea and plan to keep vacationing there, DO NOT convert to Flex, or you will probably find it difficult to impossible to get in there in the future.

Vistana sells Flex by telling people that you get access to all these properties, with Maui being what nearly everyone wants. But the reality is that most of the Flex inventory is the scraps from other locations that they couldn’t sell before. There's not a huge amount of Maui inventory in the Flex pool, so if you buy into that, you’re suddenly competing with all of the other Flex owners who want to go to Maui and must compete for those few weeks. You are much better off with your Nanea HomeOptions where you are pretty much guaranteed to get in if you book at 12 months.

 

[cindylou]

Thanks everyone for the reminders of what we already knew (mostly), but forget when getting sucked into their sales pitches to authorize our weeks "for only 25K." TUG to the rescue again.

We are running away and sending the Encore cancellation document via certified mail. (Damn them they only accept faxes and mail, not email, and I doubt I could get confirmation a fax was received).

 

[rcv82]

While I’m not recommending the Flex conversion, as a Flex owner I do want to point out that I always find good Nanea availability in Flex resort view and there is reasonable inventory of WKORV ocean and resort view. (No oceanfront anywhere).

Where Flex inventory is extremely limited is places like Riverfront in ski season, WKV in prime season.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jabberwocky]

I’ve never had a problem booking Maui with Flex. I think a large proportion of Nanea is actually in Flex. I like being able to add 3-4 days extra to our home week booking at WKORVN- although I do wish they had OF so we didn’t have to switch rooms. Being able to book that together at 12 months is so much better than hoping we can get the extra days via SO at 8 months.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

We just received the following email from someone with a vacationclub.com email address. The fact that they actually spelled our name incorrectly in the letter intro. doesn't bode well for them if they expect me to respond although I do not suspect it's a phishing email as there is not link to click.

Vistana/Marriott Final Integration, Please Respond

Dear Mr and Mrs Name Spelled Incorrectly,

As you may already know, we are in the final stages of the Marriott/Vistana Integration which will be complete in a matter of weeks. As this process moves forward, there will be decisions and choices that all Vistana owners will be making in the coming months. However, your account has been marked for "Special Review" prior to final integration since you have 2 options which will be expiring shortly.

I was a Senior Account Executive with Marriott; now working as part of a corporate team helping select Vistana owners with this transition. Given the limited time along with the overwhelming number of Starwood owners we are trying to accommodate, we are conducting these reviews on a virtual basis only. So, as you can imagine, we have limited time slots available as below. Please let us know by email which dates and times work best for you either this week or next and we'll try to accommodate you.

When scheduling, please keep in mind that everyone listed on your ownership will need to attend the meeting.

 

[KACTravels]

However, your account has been marked for "Special Review" prior to final integration since you have 2 options which will be expiring shortly.

Thank you for posting this. I am curious what your interpretation is of "2 options which will be expiring shortly" or why your account was "marked for "Special Review". I know it is all speculation until finalized, but this seems the most indicative that we are getting close to the actual merger. Are you going to meet with them virtually?

 

[alexadeparis]

The email sounds like a sales tactic, nothing more.

 

[CPNY]

This may Have been covered. But it seems there are more and more reports coming in from different sales presentations across the country that are similar. It seems the 32:1 ratio is being told to everyone at all different resorts as well as the claim that Marriott owners will be able to be book at vistana resorts at 8 months. My questions are this:

1.Considering they are all “on the same page” Is Marriott opening themselves to a class action lawsuit if these claims don’t actually come to fruition?

2.Can Marriott treat everyone currently in the VSN like an enrolled week and just assign weeks a DC point values and move everything into the DC exchange, thus doing away with the VSN?

3.Anyone on an update lately with a different story?

 

[VacationForever]

I find the email fishy (phishy) with the use of the Starwood term. I would just ignore it.

 

[dioxide45]

This may Have been covered. But it seems there are more and more reports coming in from different sales presentations across the country that are similar. It seems the 32:1 ratio is being told to everyone at all different resorts as well as the claim that Marriott owners will be able to be book at vistana resorts at 8 months. My questions are this:

1.Considering they are all “on the same page” Is Marriott opening themselves to a class action lawsuit if these claims don’t actually come to fruition?

2.Can Marriott treat everyone currently in the VSN like an enrolled week and just assign weeks a DC point values and move everything into the DC exchange, thus doing away with the VSN?

3.Anyone on an update lately with a different story?

I certainly think there is truth to the 32:1 and 28:1 numbers. But the big question remains is, does that only apply to Flex product? I think it will. Weeks, if given the option will convert at some amount determined on resort, season, view and unit size. So a 2BR Prime at SVV may get 2,500 points where a similar 81K week at WKV may get a higher amount. Hawaii even more. I am still not sure if weeks will even be given this option. What Marriott might be best to do is offer people to trade in their Vistana weeks for points to feed the trust (or a new trust) with Vistana inventory. Vistana seemed pretty successful with the trade in program several years ago and thus why we now see so few SVV Prime weeks popping up on Ebay.

Marriott can certainly change VSN unilaterally, but they will want to make it look like nothing is changing for owners that don't opt for the new program. Also that you can continue to do what you do today. This looks better for PR and also shields them from lawsuit, regardless if they are legally in the right by changing VSN in such a drastic way. Lawsuits are expensive, even when you can win.

 

[alexadeparis]

I certainly think there is truth to the 32:1 and 28:1 numbers. But the big question remains is, does that only apply to Flex product? I think it will. Weeks, if given the option will convert at some amount determined on resort, season, view and unit size. So a 2BR Prime at SVV may get 2,500 points where a similar 81K week at WKV may get a higher amount. Hawaii even more. I am still not sure if weeks will even be given this option. What Marriott might be best to do is offer people to trade in their Vistana weeks for points to feed the trust (or a new trust) with Vistana inventory. Vistana seemed pretty successful with the trade in program several years ago and thus why we now see so few SVV Prime weeks popping up on Ebay.

Marriott can certainly change VSN unilaterally, but they will want to make it look like nothing is changing for owners that don't opt for the new program. Also that you can continue to do what you do today. This looks better for PR and also shields them from lawsuit, regardless if they are legally in the right by changing VSN in such a drastic way. Lawsuits are expensive, even when you can win.

The 28 and 32 numbers have been thrown around quite a bit, so I guess what I question, not being super familiar with Marriott points-based timeshares (I used to own a non enrolled week), is are those values realistic for a Marriott equivalent unit? And if they are, would the FLEX really be the only product allowed to access MVC, or is it just that the product would be the only one auto -enrolled while the rest of us unwashed Starwooders have to pay to play? If I have to pay 6 separate enrollment fees, one per unit, regardless of status of resale or retail, that would probably NOT be ok with me, and I would probably downsize some of these, and lose my 4 star elite status. I have been holding on to some of these for a long time waiting to see what Marriott is going to do. If I only had to pay one "kind of high" enrollment fee for my resale to legitimize it, i would be ok with that, too. If I had to pay one modest fee, for all 6, I would do that.

For me as a personal example: I was told the Westin and Harborside would be the 28 ratio, while Sheratons would be the 32, at the presentation i went to, so:
WSJ #1 - 125,000 SO = 4464 MVC Points @ 28:1
WSJ #2 - 125,000 SO = 4464 MVC Points @ 28:1 EVEN 2232 annualized
HRA - 148,100 SO = 5289 MVC Points @ 28:1 (hopefully)
SVV - 81,000 SO = 2531 MVC Points @ 32:1 EVEN 1265 annualized (although this is a resale right now and not qualified)
SVR #1 81,000 SO = 2531 MVC Points @ 32:1 EVEN 1265 annualized
SVR #2 81,000 SO = 2531 MVC Points @ 32:1 EVEN 1265 annualized

So brings me to roughly 14,500 qualified MVC points a year (if we assume resales are out of the picture), rounded down. So that puts me where on the Marriott status level? Given my husband's illness, I would love to be able to make full use of the MVC system, then I could rent the points and hopefully offset most if not all my Maintenance fees. I don't want to let go of all of these just yet, until the dust settles on my husband's illness - which they have said he may live only a few more years, and quite frankly, I don't know what my life will be like 1, 5 or 10 years down the road, but I know I won't be traveling at all really in the short term. But 10 years from now, who knows, I may be remarried, and want to travel again, so I would like to keep my options open. Whatever Marriott is going to do, I wish they would just get it over with already and tell us. This multiple years of suspense is total BS.

 

[SueDonJ]

I find the email fishy (phishy) with the use of the Starwood term. I would just ignore it.

This sounds like other sales emails that have been sent out. But if I were concerned that it's fraudulent (spam) or mis/disinformation being unofficially offered by a sales rep employed by MVW, I'd forward it to CustomerAdvocacy[AT]VacationClub.com.

 

[CPNY]

The 28 and 32 numbers have been thrown around quite a bit, so I guess what I question, not being super familiar with Marriott points-based timeshares (I used to own a non enrolled week), is are those values realistic for a Marriott equivalent unit? And if they are, would the FLEX really be the only product allowed to access MVC, or is it just that the product would be the only one auto -enrolled while the rest of us unwashed Starwooders have to pay to play? If I have to pay 6 separate enrollment fees, one per unit, regardless of status of resale or retail, that would probably NOT be ok with me, and I would probably downsize some of these, and lose my 4 star elite status. I have been holding on to some of these for a long time waiting to see what Marriott is going to do. If I only had to pay one "kind of high" enrollment fee for my resale to legitimize it, i would be ok with that, too. If I had to pay one modest fee, for all 6, I would do that.

For me as a personal example: I was told the Westin and Harborside would be the 28 ratio, while Sheratons would be the 32, at the presentation i went to, so:
WSJ #1 - 125,000 SO = 4464 MVC Points @ 28:1
WSJ #2 - 125,000 SO = 4464 MVC Points @ 28:1 EVEN 2232 annualized
HRA - 148,100 SO = 5289 MVC Points @ 28:1 (hopefully)
SVV - 81,000 SO = 2531 MVC Points @ 32:1 EVEN 1265 annualized (although this is a resale right now and not qualified)
SVR #1 81,000 SO = 2531 MVC Points @ 32:1 EVEN 1265 annualized
SVR #2 81,000 SO = 2531 MVC Points @ 32:1 EVEN 1265 annualized

So brings me to roughly 14,500 qualified MVC points a year (if we assume resales are out of the picture), rounded down. So that puts me where on the Marriott status level? Given my husband's illness, I would love to be able to make full use of the MVC system, then I could rent the points and hopefully offset most if not all my Maintenance fees. I don't want to let go of all of these just yet, until the dust settles on my husband's illness - which they have said he may live only a few more years, and quite frankly, I don't know what my life will be like 1, 5 or 10 years down the road, but I know I won't be traveling at all really in the short term. But 10 years from now, who knows, I may be remarried, and want to travel again, so I would like to keep my options open. Whatever Marriott is going to do, I wish they would just get it over with already and tell us. This multiple years of suspense is total BS.

I would think that any Vistana unit that is “enrolled” fully in the vistana network would be eligible to convert. So any unit that was a developer purchase or any unit that was brought back into the network with a qualified purchase. Think of it this way, any unit that is eligible to be converted to bonvoy points is considered enrolled and fully in the vistana network. As long as the unit can be converted to bonvoy points then it can be eligible to be exchanged in the DC exchange. Yes, I know bonvoy point conversion has nothing to do with timeshares, but it can be a way to flag eligible ownerships for the conversion. Marriott could offer one time fees to bring a unit back into the system however I don’t see them doing that. I see them continuing with selling point packages to enroll resale units. So while you can continue to use the VSN today and tomorrow, expect more competition for units or less and less inventory in the VSN. I have zero desire to book Marriott units via DC points so I can’t see myself buying anymore units than I already have. There will be plenty of people like myself who will cut down what they own when the VSN is useless because they squeezed all of the inventory out of it. I may keep one or two and play the interval exchange and getaway game. That will be around for the long haul since they have to offer quality inventory to their other members in interval.

 

[Sicnarf]

The 28 and 32 numbers have been thrown around quite a bit, so I guess what I question, not being super familiar with Marriott points-based timeshares (I used to own a non enrolled week), is are those values realistic for a Marriott equivalent unit? And if they are, would the FLEX really be the only product allowed to access MVC, or is it just that the product would be the only one auto -enrolled while the rest of us unwashed Starwooders have to pay to play? If I have to pay 6 separate enrollment fees, one per unit, regardless of status of resale or retail, that would probably NOT be ok with me, and I would probably downsize some of these, and lose my 4 star elite status. I have been holding on to some of these for a long time waiting to see what Marriott is going to do. If I only had to pay one "kind of high" enrollment fee for my resale to legitimize it, i would be ok with that, too. If I had to pay one modest fee, for all 6, I would do that.

For me as a personal example: I was told the Westin and Harborside would be the 28 ratio, while Sheratons would be the 32, at the presentation i went to, so:
WSJ #1 - 125,000 SO = 4464 MVC Points @ 28:1
WSJ #2 - 125,000 SO = 4464 MVC Points @ 28:1 EVEN 2232 annualized
HRA - 148,100 SO = 5289 MVC Points @ 28:1 (hopefully)
SVV - 81,000 SO = 2531 MVC Points @ 32:1 EVEN 1265 annualized (although this is a resale right now and not qualified)
SVR #1 81,000 SO = 2531 MVC Points @ 32:1 EVEN 1265 annualized
SVR #2 81,000 SO = 2531 MVC Points @ 32:1 EVEN 1265 annualized

So brings me to roughly 14,500 qualified MVC points a year (if we assume resales are out of the picture), rounded down. So that puts me where on the Marriott status level? Given my husband's illness, I would love to be able to make full use of the MVC system, then I could rent the points and hopefully offset most if not all my Maintenance fees. I don't want to let go of all of these just yet, until the dust settles on my husband's illness - which they have said he may live only a few more years, and quite frankly, I don't know what my life will be like 1, 5 or 10 years down the road, but I know I won't be traveling at all really in the short term. But 10 years from now, who knows, I may be remarried, and want to travel again, so I would like to keep my options open. Whatever Marriott is going to do, I wish they would just get it over with already and tell us. This multiple years of suspense is total BS.

You would be MVC Presidential elite level. And I was told no enrollment fee for authorized weeks or flex points.

 

[dioxide45]

You would be MVC Presidential elite level. And I was told no enrollment fee for authorized weeks or flex points.

The big question is, if there is no enrollment fee, how does Marriott Vacations Worldwide make back their $4.7 billion investment on ILG.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

Thank you for posting this. I am curious what your interpretation is of "2 options which will be expiring shortly" or why your account was "marked for "Special Review". I know it is all speculation until finalized, but this seems the most indicative that we are getting close to the actual merger. Are you going to meet with them virtually?

Unfortunately we will never know as I have no intention of following up. I may live to regret that decision, but I doubt it!

 

[SueDonJ]

You would be MVC Presidential elite level. And I was told no enrollment fee for authorized weeks or flex points.

Considering that there is still an enrollment fee for eligible Marriott Weeks (which can be waived with certain incentives,) I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be an enrollment fee for eligible Starwood/Vistana intervals (assuming Destination Club integration is the announced integration mechanism.)

 

[alexadeparis]

Considering that there is still an enrollment fee for eligible Marriott Weeks (which can be waived with certain incentives,) I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be an enrollment fee for eligible Starwood/Vistana intervals (assuming Destination Club integration is the announced integration mechanism.)

Well, my thought is since Starwood already had points for many years, that Marriott really shouldn’t charge a fee, since they are just going to convert the currency. Marriott’s weeks product was a totally different (older style) product and they overlaid the points matrix onto it (even with the skim) that provided additional flexibility from what was originally bought, for a fee. Whereas the Starwood units always had an internal points trading system, at least from when I bought in. I feel that if they are truly treating Starwood and Marriott as equivalent systems then they should be able to just translate points amounts with minimal effort on Marriott’s part, and little cost on ours.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Thanks everyone for the reminders of what we already knew (mostly), but forget when getting sucked into their sales pitches to authorize our weeks "for only 25K." TUG to the rescue again.

We are running away and sending the Encore cancellation document via certified mail. (Damn them they only accept faxes and mail, not email, and I doubt I could get confirmation a fax was received).

That's my middle name (I am also a Cindy Lou) and I am in CO as well.

 

[CPNY]

Well, my thought is since Starwood already had points for many years, that Marriott really shouldn’t charge a fee, since they are just going to convert the currency. Marriott’s weeks product was a totally different (older style) product and they overlaid the points matrix onto it (even with the skim) that provided additional flexibility from what was originally bought, for a fee. Whereas the Starwood units always had an internal points trading system, at least from when I bought in. I feel that if they are truly treating Starwood and Marriott as equivalent systems then they should be able to just translate points amounts with minimal effort on Marriott’s part, and little cost on ours.

I think most Marriott owners will tell you that the systems aren’t equivalent. They would be correct, the vistana system has been a much better system. The flexibility in ownership has been amazing and the reason why most vistana owners want nothing changed.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Every post seems very speculative. I wonder if the salespeople will even know what they are selling, when the time comes. I was pretty leery when listening to the salespeople a year ago at Westin on Maui. Still no real news that I have seen.

 

[daviator]

Every post seems very speculative. I wonder if the salespeople will even know what they are selling, when the time comes. I was pretty leery when listening to the salespeople a year ago at Westin on Maui. Still no real news that I have seen.

That's no surprise, since every post is just speculating on what might happen. Nobody, including Vistana sales people, know all the details (well, folks at MVCI know, but I don't think they've released all those details, even internally.) Sales people have heard rumors and maybe they've been told some things in very broad terms, but there's lots of guessing and speculating and presuming going on. As you well know!

I am surprised at how many people seem to be making decisions involving real money, today, based on rumors and speculation and what I assume to be false fear. I just don't buy into the idea that if you buy something today based on rumors, you'll get something better than you'll be able to get once the program changes are revealed.

 

[dioxide45]

Every post seems very speculative. I wonder if the salespeople will even know what they are selling, when the time comes. I was pretty leery when listening to the salespeople a year ago at Westin on Maui. Still no real news that I have seen.

It is all speculation and I also speculate that the sales people get their information for their presentations from these threads on TUG.