CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[CanadianLawyer]

I just noticed this on a Vistana.com reservation we made today with StarOptions. The email is now coming from a Marriott Vacation Club address and has the look of the Marriott Vacation Club confirmations. I went back through some old confirmations we had and as of early November, it was still coming from Vistana Signature Experiences. Has anyone else noticed this? Perhaps a sign of the integration?

New Confirmation;
View attachment 45272

Old confirmation;
View attachment 45273

My latest reservation was on January 11th and the confirmation came from a Vistana address so the change must have occurred between the 12th and the 15th.

 

[CPNY]

we went to a marriott owner's update last week and a vistana owner's update today. we are at our home resort and know these salespeople quite well. what we are getting is there will be a totally new name. there is a soft launch end of february. marriott is pulling out of II. westin flex, sheraton flex ,adventuras and nanea will be convertible to the new marriott points per vistana salespeople. the marriott salespeople said no they will not. Vistana sales is adamant that those 4 trust systems will be allowed in marriott and at this point they said no fee. they do not know if at some point in network VO will be able to convert to marriott points. so, we were offered to trade in a week at kierland and and every other week at SDO both one bedrooms, total of 120k SO annually, for an additional 15k and retro two one bedroom SDO units i bought for a dollar, to add 148k SO to my account. so i give up 120k SO and 15k and receive 126k westin flex and 148k SO. also 200k bonvoy points and 4 of the vouchers to buy bonvoy points. i live and breath bonvoy points so that was a big deal. i think i looks like a favorable deal for what we want. we used to stay at SDO using company 47 staroptions chart which is only 44k/week. well we bought a house here so we no longer need SDO or kierland. what say you TUG. 15k is not a lot to get 148k SO and be in the trust with 126k SO instead of just in the network SO.

If your WKV is a platinum week, I wouldn’t give it back

 

[cindylou]

Need advice re: authorizing resale Vistana, Marriott Chairman’s Club and Titanium, 13 months out reservation benefit. Looking for TUGgers who authorized resale Vistana weeks, and Marriott Destination Club Point villa owners with two or more weeks to advise and confirm what we were told

Went to our Vistana owner’s update last weekend and was told:

- This will be the last opportunity to authorize resale Vistana units prior to Marriott reservation system merger in May (yeah, whatever)

- New reservation/StarOptions/Marriott Destination Club Point system will address the disconnect between owners who purchased same number of points for different prices, meaning those who purchased 176,700 StarOptions at Maui will have higher priority or take less StarOptions getting a Maui reservation vs someone who purchased 176,700 StarOptions elsewhere, effectively devaluing certain properties. For example, it may take twice the normal Lakeside Terrace StarOptions to get a studio at WKORV at the 8- month point

- If we paid to authorize our 4 WKORV OF we would qualify for 5 star elite and Titanium level now and then after merger Marriott Chairman’s Club; Chairman’s Club will let us make our reservations 13 months out from check-in, 1 month earlier than owners who only own 1 week

We were offered:

- Purchase 1 BR Oceanview WKORV South every other year and authorize our 4 WKORV Oceanfront resales for $25,667 ($10K to authorize first unit, then $5K for each one after)

- 81,000 StarOptions (7 nights in a 1BR at WKORV)

- Makes us 5 star elite

- 1 Million wholesale (Marriott?) points for purchase option (4 certificates of 270K at $1875 each) until Dec 15, 2023; points good for 6 years

Our situation and thought process

- For the last 15 years we had no interest in 5 star elite benefits

o We rarely use Marriott points for stays but sometimes do convert to airline miles

o We always use all our StarOptions to stay in one of our home resorts (WKORV)

o If we don’t use our WKORV weeks, we rent them out

- We got tired of moving every week for 8 weeks at WKORV and could not bring our dog so we bought a condo up the hill from WKORV and will be here 4-6 months a year

- We anticipate renting out all 4 weeks of WKORV

- The 13-month reservation window from potential Chairman’s Club is appealing now to minimize the stress of 7 weeks of making reservations at exactly one year out

- The Float Period waitlist could be useful since our 2 of our fixed weeks are 5 weeks apart and we might want to make the 4 weeks consecutive

- Authorizing all the weeks would make future owner’s updates painless – they could offer nothing we don’t already have

- We don’t think we’ve ever seen this low price to authorize 4 weeks

- We are actually planning trips to Europe, Bora Bora and Maldives where Marriott points (and converting Villa options to points) could be very useful, but then again the best bang for our buck is probably renting out Maui weeks instead of converting to point for other travel

Obviously the above is probably not worth $25K, or is it?

Marriott Ocean Club owners with 2 or more weeks – is it true you get to make your reservations at 13 months out, while those with only 1 week have to wait for 12 months out? We were shown a chart that indicated everyone could already reserve at 13 months out, so it appears our “advantage” would be shared by all owners anyway and therefore not an advantage at all.

Marriott Owners with 2 or more weeks – are you able to make reservations for 2 consecutive weeks in one phone call? We were told that is the case. This would also reduce our stress.

5-star Elites – do we really need any of those benefits if we are just going to rent out our units?

Vistana owners – have you regretted authorizing any of your resale weeks?

I bluffed and said we were not interested, hoping to see if they’d lower the prices, but they just brought us the Encore package instead, so we plunked down the $99 to keep our options open for another few days. Encore package will be 1BR WKORV for $1894 for 6 days (or studio for $1594)

Any advice welcomed. We need to back out of the Encore or make a move by Wed Feb

 

[daviator]

I will randomly hit on a few of your points/questions:

My mom and her husband own at Maui Ocean Club (for many years) and they indeed get to make reservations 13 months out. I *think* they can reserve two weeks at that point but I'm not 100% sure. Better to get verification from someone who is certain.

I do agree that's a pretty low price to get all of your weeks authorized. But you have to decide if you'll actually use those newfound benefits, if you won't use them, they don't have value to you.

Keep in mind that they keep devaluing Bonvoy points. Back in the Starwood days, those hotel points you could convert to were actually worth something. Now they are worth less with every year that passes. I expect that will continue, so I wouldn't attach a lot of value to that option. Still, it was useful to be able to convert some of my ownerships to Bonvoy points in 2020/2021, when I was desperate to get SOME value out of an ownership I was never going to fully use amidst the pandemic. Options are good to have, but Bonvoy points aren't a great one.

I do attach some value to Platinum or Titanium Bonvoy status. I've gotten some great upgrades from my status, though it's hit or miss and not something you can count on. A few years ago when we were in Budapest – I was "only" Platinum then – the hotel had our names on a special signboard when we arrived, and we got a huge suite that must have been 2,000 square feet, all for the price of one of their cheaper rooms. They treated us like royalty due to our status. So when it happens it's pretty nice.

All of my weeks are developer purchases (I know, I know...) and owner updates are still not painless. They always find something to try to tempt you with. So don't count on the updates ever being pain-free.

Now I don't regret my developer purchases, though I know more now and probably wouldn't buy that way again. And I do use many of the benefits that you get with authorized weeks, so if I was in your shoes, I'd probably spend $25K to authorize all those weeks. But I'm not sure I'd feel the same way if my plan was to always rent them out. In that case, the benefits to you are pretty paltry.

Oh, one last thing, those Bonvoy point purchase certificates – some people really like those, I don't think they are a great deal. I think "The Points Guy" says that Bonvoy points are worth 7¢ each. So that 270K points (I thought it was 240K, but maybe they've changed it) is worth about the same price you'd pay for it. So unless you think you can find a way to use those points and get quite a bit more than 7¢ each in value, I'd rather just spend my $1875 on hotel rooms directly (and I'll earn credit card rewards and Bonvoy points for doing so.) Why lock your money up in a currency with a value that declines with every year that passes?

Just my thoughts. Good luck with your decision and enjoy Maui!

 

[Bird01]

I'm skeptical that they will convert Vistana Elite 5 to Marriott Chairman's Club without a fee or a purchase. Our Vistana sales rep made it sound like it's a done deal. Any thoughts on that?

 

[DeniseM]

Any thoughts would be pure speculation - NOTHING official has been announced.

 

[dioxide45]

I'm skeptical that they will convert Vistana Elite 5 to Marriott Chairman's Club without a fee or a purchase. Our Vistana sales rep made it sound like it's a done deal. Any thoughts on that?

It is hard to tell. It might require that you own either Westin or Sheraton Flex on the outset and those count toward elite levels and can play in the combined program. It may require some kind of enrollment fee like Marriott weeks owners had to pay to play. We don't know how they will handle Vistana weeks. Doubtful that they will just use the StarOptions from those to count toward Elite status. Those are more likely to convert on a resort by resort, season by season and unit by unit level. So a 2BR in Hawaii is worth more Marriott points than a 2BR in the desert. That is even if they allow Vistana weeks to play in the new system.

 

[daviator]

It's a bit ironic that they are now going to down-value some of the resorts, when for years, they sold those resorts as the best way to get more StarOptions for less money. Now they're going to try to reduce the value of those purchases, reportedly.

I think it's all back to timeshare basics: you want to own fixed weeks at properties you enjoy and want to use. Everything else – the trading and exchanging, etc. – can and will be taken away or changed at the whim of the company. I'm happy that I never bought at a property just for its trading value.

 

[dss]

Is anyone else concerned that allowing top elite members a 13 month booking window will make booking of OF units at WKORV or WKORVN next to impossible at the 12 month mark?

 

[vacationtime1]

Is anyone else concerned that allowing top elite members a 13 month booking window will make booking of OF units at WKORV or WKORVN next to impossible at the 12 month mark?

The only inventory of OF units MVC would have available to reserve at the 13 month mark (or at the 12 month mark for that matter) would be units voluntarily relinquished by OF owners -- presumably in exchange for Bonvoy points. And unless MVC permits OF owners to participate in the new program, owners won't be able to relinquish units to MVC and MVC will not have the inventory it wants.

To my knowledge, neither MVC nor the Westin Flex Trust owns OF units at either WKORV or WKORVN. If MVC wants OF owners to release that inventory, MVC will have to do sufficient things to induce them (us) to do so.

 

[tborr123]

I have randomly read discussions on the effect of the merger on Vistana owners and am totally confused so waiting for official word. My question: as a floating OF week and week 51 OF owner at WKORV can they devalue my units or make it harder to book the floating week?

 

[DanCali]

I'm skeptical that they will convert Vistana Elite 5 to Marriott Chairman's Club without a fee or a purchase. Our Vistana sales rep made it sound like it's a done deal. Any thoughts on that?

I think that's reasonable to assume, but that's just speculation.

Anyone who is 5* Elite already "paid the price" for that benefit some way or another. When Marriott Hotels bought Starwood they did things to balance the Elite levels and I think they will do the same here. 649K SOs is a lot and probably just a small fraction of owners have that much. At the rumored 1:32 rate that was going on for a while that's 20,281 DC points, well above the 15K level required. And, on the MVC side, the benefits for Charman's Club and Presidential are not that much more than Executive, so it's not like they are giving up that much to begin with...

 

[DeniseM]

I have randomly read discussions on the effect of the merger on Vistana owners and am totally confused so waiting for official word. My question: as a floating OF week and week 51 OF owner at WKORV can they devalue my units or make it harder to book the floating week?

The reason that it's confusing is that people are just speculating/guessing/making it up as they go along - there has been NO official announcement at all.

 

[dioxide45]

The reason that it's confusing is that people are just speculating/guessing/making it up as they go along - there has been NO official announcement at all.

I personally like the making it up as I go along.

 

[Ken555]

I personally like the making it up as I go along.

Why stop a good thing? These threads are already fiction, keep going!

 

[jabberwocky]

Is anyone else concerned that allowing top elite members a 13 month booking window will make booking of OF units at WKORV or WKORVN next to impossible at the 12 month mark?

No. The governing documents explicitly state that all owners of floating weeks can only begin booking one year in advance.

The only way I can see a 13 month window being adopted is if there was a vote to change the underlying agreement for all owners. Otherwise, even if a week were to be put into the MVC trust, the trust as owner of the week would not be allowed to book a particular week until the 12 month mark.

It is the one thing I have liked about Vistana vs some other systems.It is fairly egalitarian when it comes to booking windows. All owners have pretty much equal access to booking regardless of elite status. I hope it stays this way.

 

[lorenmd]

i was told with my 4*elite status i now will now be presidential and i have a 13 month booking window. that nanea is the most valuable followed by westin flex followed by sheraton flex. i think they are 32:1 28:1 and 26:1 or 32, 30 and 28 but i don't have my paperwork in front of me. don't know how in network weeks will be treated or if you have to permanently or temporarily trade them in for DC points but it was thought that it was only on a year by year basis. not permanent forfeit for DC points. and the points ratio value will be determined by what you own. soft launch at the end of the month and the new name will be released and it is a two syllable word that is as strange as bonvoy was when it was first released. but look we've all gotten used to bonvoy

 

[dioxide45]

i was told with my 4*elite status i now will now be presidential and i have a 13 month booking window. that nanea is the most valuable followed by westin flex followed by sheraton flex. i think they are 32:1 28:1 and 26:1 or 32, 30 and 28 but i don't have my paperwork in front of me. don't know how in network weeks will be treated or if you have to permanently or temporarily trade them in for DC points but it was thought that it was only on a year by year basis. not permanent forfeit for DC points. and the points ratio value will be determined by what you own. soft launch at the end of the month and the new name will be released and it is a two syllable word that is as strange as bonvoy was when it was first released. but look we've all gotten used to bonvoy

The way to look at this though is you will have a 13 month booking window to book inventory that others have gave up to also use to book in the combined system. You won't have access to owner inventory or weeks that haven't been booked because they are planning to use for StarOption reservations. There will be many buckets of inventory here. There will probably be a defined annual election where you have to tell Marriott that you plan to use your ownership in the combined system. You can then book what is available from all those others that also made the same annual election.

 

[er57]

Why lock your money up in a currency with a value that declines with every year that passes?

Sell your dollars then too! . . . being devalued every day.

 

[lorenmd]

The way to look at this though is you will have a 13 month booking window to book inventory that others have gave up to also use to book in the combined system. You won't have access to owner inventory or weeks that haven't been booked because they are planning to use for StarOption reservations. There will be many buckets of inventory here. There will probably be a defined annual election where you have to tell Marriott that you plan to use your ownership in the combined system. You can then book what is available from all those others that also made the same annual election.

yes we talked about that. he did say that the bucket is getting more inventory everyday. people are trading in their weeks for flex and marriott will start selling the new unified product shortly. i think many weeks owners will trade in on a year by year basis to get into a marriott. they both have great inventory and i am excited to explore new places.

 

[dioxide45]

yes we talked about that. he did say that the bucket is getting more inventory everyday. people are trading in their weeks for flex and marriott will start selling the new unified product shortly. i think many weeks owners will trade in on a year by year basis to get into a marriott. they both have great inventory and i am excited to explore new places.

But I don't think the bucket for DC points will be the same as Flex. Flex owners will still need to convert to these new type of points (or existing DC points) before that inventory becomes available as a whole for 13 month reservations. In reality, only those Flex owners that decide they want to stay at a Marriott or find it better to book with the new points will opt to go for it. All Flex inventory will not be open to 13 month bookings. It will only be a subset of Flex inventory.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

AFAIK Flex does not have WKORV OF. Sales rep fiction?

 

[daviator]

AFAIK Flex does not have WKORV OF. Sales rep fiction?

My understanding is that you are correct. WKORV OF was sold out as deeded weeks. It's possible that the developer has a handful which were foreclosures or deed-backs – but those weeks are the most valuable of the property, and it seems unlikely that many folks would just hand them back to the developer. Maybe some ROFR weeks could have gone into the Flex pool, but again, I am not aware that this is true.

 

[dioxide45]

My understanding is that you are correct. WKORV OF was sold out as deeded weeks. It's possible that the developer has a handful which were foreclosures or deed-backs – but those weeks are the most valuable of the property, and it seems unlikely that many folks would just hand them back to the developer. Maybe some ROFR weeks could have gone into the Flex pool, but again, I am not aware that this is true.

My understanding is that any OF weeks that Vistana gets back, they resell them as deeded weeks and do not add them to any of the Flex trusts. They are more valuable as weeks than they are as the HomeOption value they would go into the Flex trust as.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

So if this is true. What does OPs "authorize 4 WKORV OF" mean? It is already mandatory resale. The resale value is good and the units rent so well they would likely do better renting the units out and using the rent profit to pay for Europe hotels. They should never trade or transition these high value units for Bonvoy points (bad deal).

So they get elite credit + one more MF for life for the 1 bdrm for "only" $25k? IMHO....Sounds like bad deal especially since they don't plan to stay there and Bonvoy elite can be had via a credit card. On top of that you have to pay $1800 x 4 for the Bonvoy points? Travel blogs are full of stories that Bonvoy Elite benefits are flaky and vary by hotel. Run away.