CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[SueDonJ]

right. But after you elect you can't switch back to VSN for that year. That is why I said it's confusing.

It gets less confusing if you think of the Destination Club as just another exchange company. That's essentially what it is, an overlay exchange system that allows you to continue using any of the other options you already have for using your ownership, *plus* playing in the DC Exchange Company. If it's not confusing to you to give up your Week to II for an exchange knowing that you can't pull it back for that use year, it shouldn't confuse you to do the same with the DC.

The advantages I get with the DC over II are:
- A couple of my Weeks are non-lock-off 3BRs that elect for a high number of DC Points. During the years prior to the DC every time I used II for exchanging I got only 2BRs in return. That's what I expected, knowing that very few non-lock-off 3BRs exist in the timeshare world so very few are deposited to II, but it makes II exchanges a reduction in value. In the DC exchange game I get equal value at some lower-demand resorts but even at the high-demand ones, I still get 2BRs plus a surplus to use for short stays elsewhere.
- II doesn't guarantee view. View is important to us. It might not be to somebody else and I understand that completely, but it's important to us and it's why we bought particular views. In the DC I can choose to use more points to get a specific view. Even knowing that a reservation in an "oceanside"-designated unit might land me in a low-floor unit that sees not a drop of ocean or a high-floor unit with a wide sideview ocean expanse, I know where to go to learn what the resorts layouts are and I know that landing in a back-of-the-resort "gardenview" unit can't happen if I reserve "oceanside."
- II allows full-week or split-week stays with set check-in days. The DC allows any number of days with any check-in day. Don's now retired and our schedule is wide open to pick any travel dates we want, taking advantage of lower air fares, etc ... and the DC flexibility works very well in that regard.
- We love II Getaways, have always used those much more than exchanging in II. The II corporate account that was opened when we enrolled in the DC is the exact same as individual II accounts with respect to Getaways.

You Vistana people have a ton of new information to absorb about the DC. It works for some, not for others. Keep asking your questions and making your comments, and eventually you'll learn enough to know whether it works with your particular ownership or not. Here on TUG I honestly don't know of any Marriott people who would try to make the claim that it 100% works for everyone.

 

[bizaro86]

It might make sense for someone (think the average owner) who owns in Hawaii and is willing to travel in October. They will get more Club Points from their week than it would cost to go in October through DC. RIght now in VSN, October costs as much as July.

Absolutely. For a Maui owner who regularly takes staroptions this will be a huge win. For a vistana villages owner who does the same maybe not so much. And there will be some people who lose big (true plat 2br SDO gets 148k SO, enough for a 2br in Maui) by converting to DC.

Since the system isn't just a straight SO-->DC points there will be some exchanges that benefit and some that lose by definition.

I think unfortunately for future VSN availability it will be the top resorts (ie Maui) that benefit the most from DC conversion, so I'd expect it to most negatively affect availability there.

 

[pchung6]

Assuming MGV = Marriott Grande Vista, a 2BR Gold exchanges for 2175 and a 2BR Platinum exchanges for 2775 Destination Club Points. The range for 1BR units at each Hawaii resort from lowest-demand date(s) and view to highest-demand date(s) and view are:
- 2,925-5,125 / Waikoloa Ocean Club
- 2,525-6,875 / Maui Ocean Club
- 2,175-4,475 / Kauai Beach Club
- 2,925-6,100 / Ko 'Olina Beach Club

Thank you. This is very very helpful. It is in line with Denise’s Q&A, some Vistana resorts will benefit from DC conversion and some will lose value. I can see SVV, WKR, WMH, WDW are few primary resorts to lose value if owners choose to convert.

 

[Mowogo]

You Vistana people have a ton of new information to absorb about the DC. It works for some, not for others. Keep asking your questions and making your comments, and eventually you'll learn enough to know whether it works with your particular ownership or not. Here on TUG I honestly don't know of any Marriott people who would try to make the claim that it 100% works for everyone.

Exactly. I've been researching and for the family holdings of Sheraton Flex at 3* Elite being grandfathered to executive I can see the benefits and get my parents traveling much wider than a Sheraton Flex ownership with 13 month priority.

Absolutely. For a Maui owner who regularly takes staroptions this will be a huge win. For a vistana villages owner who does the same maybe not so much. And there will be some people who lose big (true plat 2br SDO gets 148k SO, enough for a 2br in Maui) by converting to DC.

Since the system isn't just a straight SO-->DC points there will be some exchanges that benefit and some that lose by definition.

I think unfortunately for future VSN availability it will be the top resorts (ie Maui) that benefit the most from DC conversion, so I'd expect it to most negatively affect availability there.

VSN availability is something that I have extremely low long term hopes for. Voluntary resales naturally bleeding the system combined with the incentives for desirable properties to exchange in DC vs VSN and the general push for owners to exchange in DC will likely take a lot of inventory out of VSN. Add in multiple layers where inventory can be manipulated to advance corporate goals is not something I'd feel comfortable with paying the upcharge on a lot of mandatory resorts right now until I see how inventory plays out, but even then acknowledging that VSN as a primary exchange is not a long term play.

 

[CPNY]

Absolutely. For a Maui owner who regularly takes staroptions this will be a huge win. For a vistana villages owner who does the same maybe not so much. And there will be some people who lose big (true plat 2br SDO gets 148k SO, enough for a 2br in Maui) by converting to DC.

Since the system isn't just a straight SO-->DC points there will be some exchanges that benefit and some that lose by definition.

I think unfortunately for future VSN availability it will be the top resorts (ie Maui) that benefit the most from DC conversion, so I'd expect it to most negatively affect availability there.

Great points. While we expect Westins in Maui to convert at an excellent rate, we can’t forget about the maint fee per SO ratio. While we can expect that one 2 bedroom in Maui will get more DC points than a 2 bedroom at SVV, the Maint fee for that two bedroom at SVV is less. Converting multiple SVV units may be just as effective as converting one Westin in Maui unit. I’m sure there will be plenty of calculations on the “best way in”. We might even see more people who are completely against developer purchases finally bite the bullet and make that minimum purchase to enroll. Would I be one of them? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[CPNY]

Exactly. I've been researching and for the family holdings of Sheraton Flex at 3* Elite being grandfathered to executive I can see the benefits and get my parents traveling much wider than a Sheraton Flex ownership with 13 month priority.

VSN availability is something that I have extremely low long term hopes for. Voluntary resales naturally bleeding the system combined with the incentives for desirable properties to exchange in DC vs VSN and the general push for owners to exchange in DC will likely take a lot of inventory out of VSN. Add in multiple layers where inventory can be manipulated to advance corporate goals is not something I'd feel comfortable with paying the upcharge on a lot of mandatory resorts right now until I see how inventory plays out, but even then acknowledging that VSN as a primary exchange is not a long term play.

I think it will take a long time before the VSN is drastically dried up. Assuming Marriott just doesn’t take what they want out of it and fund the DC exchange. The “layers where inventory can be manipulated to advance corporate goals” is where most of us do not trust Marriott. I do think they VSN will have a future.

 

[bizaro86]

Great points. While we expect Westins in Maui to convert at an excellent rate, we can’t forget about the maint fee per SO ratio. While we can expect that one 2 bedroom in Maui will get more DC points than a 2 bedroom at SVV, the Maint fee for that two bedroom at SVV is less. Converting multiple SVV units may be just as effective as converting one Westin in Maui unit. I’m sure there will be plenty of calculations on the “best way in”. We might even see more people who are completely against developer purchases finally bite the bullet and make that minimum purchase to enroll. Would I be one of them? Maybe, maybe not.

I'm not saying that Maui will be a more economical trader (it probably still makes sense to use/rent), but that for those who already own Maui DC is likely to be more attractive than SVN. By contrast, many sheraton properties will probably grt better value in SVN, and over time that is likely to bleed SVN inventory of prime weeks.

 

[CPNY]

I'm not saying that Maui will be a more economical trader (it probably still makes sense to use/rent), but that for those who already own Maui DC is likely to be more attractive than SVN. By contrast, many sheraton properties will probably grt better value in SVN, and over time that is likely to bleed SVN inventory of prime weeks.

Lucky for me I don’t go to Hawaii….. If the whole thing crumbles, my SVV units can do well in interval. Im remaining hopeful for the VSN. Hopeful that the VSN will be around for the next ten years with some inventory to pick from. Who knows, maybe they will want a quick money grab and allow us to enroll resale weeks for a moderate fee (highly unlikely)

 

[byeloe]

It gets less confusing if you think of the Destination Club as just another exchange company. That's essentially what it is, an overlay exchange system that allows you to continue using any of the other options you already have for using your ownership, *plus* playing in the DC Exchange Company. If it's not confusing to you to give up your Week to II for an exchange knowing that you can't pull it back for that use year, it shouldn't confuse you to do the same with the DC.

The advantages I get with the DC over II are:
- A couple of my Weeks are non-lock-off 3BRs that elect for a high number of DC Points. During the years prior to the DC every time I used II for exchanging I got only 2BRs in return. That's what I expected, knowing that very few non-lock-off 3BRs exist in the timeshare world so very few are deposited to II, but it makes II exchanges a reduction in value. In the DC exchange game I get equal value at some lower-demand resorts but even at the high-demand ones, I still get 2BRs plus a surplus to use for short stays elsewhere.
- II doesn't guarantee view. View is important to us. It might not be to somebody else and I understand that completely, but it's important to us and it's why we bought particular views. In the DC I can choose to use more points to get a specific view. Even knowing that a reservation in an "oceanside"-designated unit might land me in a low-floor unit that sees not a drop of ocean or a high-floor unit with a wide sideview ocean expanse, I know where to go to learn what the resorts layouts are and I know that landing in a back-of-the-resort "gardenview" unit can't happen if I reserve "oceanside."
- II allows full-week or split-week stays with set check-in days. The DC allows any number of days with any check-in day. Don's now retired and our schedule is wide open to pick any travel dates we want, taking advantage of lower air fares, etc ... and the DC flexibility works very well in that regard.
- We love II Getaways, have always used those much more than exchanging in II. The II corporate account that was opened when we enrolled in the DC is the exact same as individual II accounts with respect to Getaways.

You Vistana people have a ton of new information to absorb about the DC. It works for some, not for others. Keep asking your questions and making your comments, and eventually you'll learn enough to know whether it works with your particular ownership or not. Here on TUG I honestly don't know of any Marriott people who would try to make the claim that it 100% works for everyone.

It's only confusing in that it implies that you can get access to both DC and VSN after you elect. When in reality the only VSN resorts you will have access to that year are ones that also elected DC

 

[dioxide45]

It's only confusing in that it implies that you can get access to both DC and VSN after you elect. When in reality the only VSN resorts you will have access to that year are ones that also elected DC

Technically after you elect Club Points, you can't access both DC and VSN. You can access DC which may also include inventory from Sheraton and Westin properties. VSN inventory would be separate and unattainable. Electing Club Points is final. You can't change your mind later if you can't find something you want. You can bank and borrow as well as rent those points out a lot more easily by being able to transfer them to other DC members. So Having Club Points has other benefits.

 

[SueDonJ]

It's only confusing in that it implies that you can get access to both DC and VSN after you elect. When in reality the only VSN resorts you will have access to that year are ones that also elected DC

In which case it's less confusing to think of using the Destination Club as a two-step process:
- First step is choosing whether or not to enroll your ownership in the Destination Club (and pay the annual Club Dues fee to continue that enrollment,) which confers all of the usage options that already exist with your ownership *plus* membership in the Destination Club and all that it entails.
- Once enrolled then the second step would be determining the usage option for a particular year, whether that's home resort in season, electing StarOptions, electing Bonvoy Points, exchanging via II, etc, or, the newest option of electing DC Points for exchanging via the DC Exchange Company or whatever other DC options are available.

Marriott hasn't ever fully explained their inventory machinations. Of course it would make our timeshare usage decisions easier if they did but there's no requirement that they must so we're left to dissect the little information they do give us while relying on our collective experiences. I know that there's a persistent thought that the only intervals that can be booked using DC Points are the intervals that have either been permanently conveyed by Marriott to the DC Trust or the intervals that are deposited to the DC Exchange Company by Marriott and/or DC-enrolled members. But a few months after the DC was first rolled out they put out a FAQ that included a question of where DC Exchange Company intervals originate and the answer included this:

>>"... other Marriott Vacation Club Owners who enroll their weeks and elect Vacation Club Points, and non-enrolled Owners who trade their usage for Marriott Rewards points or exchange their week through membership in Interval International."<<

I also have experience with an advisor early on, before online reservations could be made, who specifically told me that the Exchange Company didn't have what I wanted "but hold on while I check II."

I remain convinced that inventory is manipulated among all the different buckets much more than we may think. The reason that I don't think Marriott somehow manipulates it to their advantage is because 1) the underlying governing docs of Marriott Weeks provide some protection from Marriott (the timeshare company and the hotel company) raiding the buckets for their own advantage and to the detriment of Owners, and 2) it appears to me that Marriott does not pre-select inventory for specific buckets but instead all inventory is managed such that selections for certain usage are made at the time of requests. I can't prove it, but I haven't seen any indication that Marriott is undermining Owners.

 

[divenski]

It might make sense for someone (think the average owner) who owns in Hawaii and is willing to travel in October. They will get more Club Points from their week than it would cost to go in October through DC. Right now in VSN, October costs as much as July.

This might not be always the case. One example I know well is Marriot's Waiohai. The 2-bdrm OV is worth 5075 DC points. All of summer costs about 5,800 pts, and so that's the 10-15% skim I mentioned before. You HAVE to travel in off-peak season, eg Sep/Oct, in order to just barely get a full week with 5,025 points.

But in general, I'd say that the DC adds value to owners of higher value properties and reduces trading up opportunities for lower value properties. As someone else noted, before the DC, putting a high end week into II was just about always a downgrade due to loss of view and more.

And the scary thing is that 5,800 points will cost a new purchaser about $75K with a $3,500 MF. Yikes. On paper, my Waiohai week has gone up in value! Of course, a resale week can be had for ~$15-16K.

 

[KACTravels]

And the scary thing is that 5,800 points will cost a new purchaser about $75K with a $3,500 MF. Yikes. On paper, my Waiohai week has gone up in value! Of course, a resale week can be had for ~$15-16K.

Can resale weeks be used in the DC system? I thought Marriott didn’t “retro” resales??


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[VacationForever]

Can resale weeks be used in the DC system? I thought Marriott didn’t “retro” resales??


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You can buy trust points or Aruba/Spain weeks from MVC to retro resales.

 

[SueDonJ]

Can resale weeks be used in the DC system? I thought Marriott didn’t “retro” resales??


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There are exceptions to the hard purchase cut-off dates for enrolling external resales in the DC. From the ~~ Enrolling MVCI Weeks in the DC ~~ section on Page 1 of the FAQ linked in my signature:

• Two recurring sales incentives involve direct-purchases of either DC Trust Points or non-US-based Weeks, that allow for simultaneous enrollment of otherwise-ineligible previously-purchased Weeks. These incentives may be subject to begin-and-end dates, specific Trust Points minimum purchases and/or cut-off dates for the existing Weeks. See this ongoing thread: Ongoing Sales Incentive - Enrolling Post-6/20/10 Weeks [Merged]

 

[pchung6]

Lucky for me I don’t go to Hawaii….. If the whole thing crumbles, my SVV units can do well in interval. Im remaining hopeful for the VSN. Hopeful that the VSN will be around for the next ten years with some inventory to pick from. Who knows, maybe they will want a quick money grab and allow us to enroll resale weeks for a moderate fee (highly unlikely)

It will hurt so much for me. I've been using 81k SVV for Westin Maui for many years. It worked so well for us in the past. Hope VSN can still maintain sufficient inventory for another 10 years and I will just throw away these SVVs after that. I'm also worried these 148k WKV or SDO or WMH platinums will be devaluated the worst. Luckily I almost pulled the trigger for Kierland last year for $15k.

 

[CPNY]

It will hurt so much for me. I've been using 81k SVV for Westin Maui for many years. It worked so well for us in the past. Hope VSN can still maintain sufficient inventory for another 10 years and I will just throw away these SVVs after that. I'm also worried these 148k WKV or SDO or WMH platinums will be devaluated the worst. Luckily I almost pulled the trigger for Kierland last year for $15k.

Who knows…. Maybe all of us naysayers will be buying DC points in the future haha. I also have no idea what the value of resales will be in the future. All I know is I’m closing on another now, probably bad timing.

 

[rcv82]

It will hurt so much for me. I've been using 81k SVV for Westin Maui for many years. It worked so well for us in the past. Hope VSN can still maintain sufficient inventory for another 10 years and I will just throw away these SVVs after that. I'm also worried these 148k WKV or SDO or WMH platinums will be devaluated the worst. Luckily I almost pulled the trigger for Kierland last year for $15k.

Hopefully this will hold. I agree the biggest winners here are those with high demand/high value ownerships, especially if fully qualified. Another winner here relatively speaking are those that have bought inexpensive but relatively good voluntary weeks resale and requalified them. I have done this with a couple SMV ski weeks (148100 SOs) for about $15k combined purchase and retro. They will be lower on the DC conversion but had a low buy in cost and low maintenance fees, so still a good value. (Probably about $10k lower cost than doing the same thing with WKV).


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[Red elephant]

I highly doubt that prime vistana week owners are going to be converting just to book back into other vistana resorts. They will do well in the DC.

That makes no sense to convert to DC just to book a Vistana resort that will cost you more. When you can do it directly on VSN. If you convert to DC it will be to book a Marriott resort and/ or take advantage of 13 months & 1 day booking or the 30% discount 60 days as a higher level elite. Otherwise like in my case renting out Nanea and WSJ is more lucrative.

 

[bogey21]

I admire all you who can figure all this out. It makes my head spin. My last Marriot and favorite "no brainer" was my Monarch Fixed Week...

George

 

[sfcolliejr]

I just noticed this on a Vistana.com reservation we made today with StarOptions. The email is now coming from a Marriott Vacation Club address and has the look of the Marriott Vacation Club confirmations. I went back through some old confirmations we had and as of early November, it was still coming from Vistana Signature Experiences. Has anyone else noticed this? Perhaps a sign of the integration?

New Confirmation;
View attachment 45272

Old confirmation;
View attachment 45273

Thank you for posting this. I have a reservation at the Westin Nanea Ocean Villas that I have rented out for two weeks. I need to check to see if I have a different reservation number from Marriott. I rented through RedWeek.

 

[pchung6]

That makes no sense to convert to DC just to book a Vistana resort that will cost you more. When you can do it directly on VSN. If you convert to DC it will be to book a Marriott resort and/ or take advantage of 13 months & 1 day booking or the 30% discount 60 days as a higher level elite. Otherwise like in my case renting out Nanea and WSJ is more lucrative.

Exactly. That's exactly what I've been doing to rent out Westin Ka'anapali and Ko Olina summer weeks. I use SVV staroptions for my personal trip during shoulder season, that's what I'm worried about the new program might eliminate this option. The worst scenario if VSN dries up, I just switch to Interval for my personal usage. I don't see the need of DC pts so far since I really have no interest in any Marriott properties beside Ko Olina.

 

[VacationForever]

That makes no sense to convert to DC just to book a Vistana resort that will cost you more. When you can do it directly on VSN. If you convert to DC it will be to book a Marriott resort and/ or take advantage of 13 months & 1 day booking or the 30% discount 60 days as a higher level elite. Otherwise like in my case renting out Nanea and WSJ is more lucrative.

Actually, it does not always cost more. Some resorts and time period will cost you way less than booking in DC than through VSN. It is a function of what you own, how many DC points it translates to and then what you are trying to book. For instance, if you currently own a Hawaii week and have been using SOs to book WKV, then you are better off electing that week for DC points and use that to book WKV and have many more DC points available to book elsewhere.

 

[Sicnarf]

That makes no sense to convert to DC just to book a Vistana resort that will cost you more. When you can do it directly on VSN. If you convert to DC it will be to book a Marriott resort and/ or take advantage of 13 months & 1 day booking or the 30% discount 60 days as a higher level elite. Otherwise like in my case renting out Nanea and WSJ is more lucrative.

Depending on the exchange rate, there may be VSN resort/unit that someone may want to secure 13 months out instead of 8 months.

 

[Red elephant]

Actually, it does not always cost more. Some resorts and time period will cost you way less than booking in DC than through VSN. It is a function of what you own, how many DC points it translates to and then what you are trying to book. For instance, if you currently own a Hawaii week and have been using SOs to book WKV, then you are better off electing that week for DC points and use that to book WKV and have many more DC points available to book elsewhere.

Yeah that makes sense if your only ownership is Hawaii and you want to go to WKV. But I would rent Hawaiii and take part of the money and rent WKV instead.