CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[byeloe]

Denise's follow up from Mr.X answered this question that I asked.

Q. When electing to convert annual SO's into DC, will one have the ability to view Marriott availability before finalizing the conversion?

Mr.X. NO, keep in mind you can book Vistana if you convert so there is nothing to lose."

This statement is confusing. How can you still book vistana if you convert?

 

[sharr7]

Assuming there will be DC values (or conversion factors?) for DC owners to book Vistana SO weeks - so maybe you can convert SO to DC and then book a Vistana resort with DC?

If so you probably lose value in the conversion each time but that's probably not something sales mentions.

 

[Mowogo]

This statement is confusing. How can you still book vistana if you convert?

Because you will be able to book the Vistana inventory that has been deposited into DC.

 

[jabberwocky]

This statement is confusing. How can you still book vistana if you convert?

When a person elects to convert from Vistana to DC that week then becomes available via DC points for anyone who has DC points. Of course, it will be at the DC points value assigned by MVC and likely much less of a value than the equivalent booking via VSN/SO. I don’t think it will be easy to book back into Vistana as the inventory for good weeks is likely going to be somewhat limited - at least initially.

 

[byeloe]

Because you will be able to book the Vistana inventory that has been deposited into DC.

right, but that is an unknown as well. At least you can search VSN in advance of 8 months

 

[Mroze]

The system is set up to handle grandfathering even when not at the minimum for the standard. The benefits of 3* align closer to Executive so it makes sense to start there. Also from an enrollment incentive there are enough owners at the 3 star level where the Marriott figures the minimal cost of having elites below the executive level grandfathered is a minimal cost to provide more reason for them to trade into DC initially.

We own with both Vistana + Marriott.

For-Comparison
To get to VSN-3* I needed a single WLR 2BR-EY-PLATINUM+ Unit [148100] + 10,900-SO which even if I purchased direct cost me $35-$40K.
This is an average unit in the Vistana-Network with MAUI-OF & Westin St John's being PEAK.

To get to MVC-Executive I needed to purchase 2 x 2BR-PLATINUM Weeks at Marriott Ko'Olina Island-View [4K-DCP each] to get to a little above Executive which could cost me north of $80K.
A 2BR-EY-PLATINUM MAUI-OF which is PEAK in the Marriott-Network could accrue 7K-DCP [Executive] which could cost me north of $60-$70K.

Disparity: The dilemma for Marriott is that Vistana assigns the same #-SO for Lagunamar as they do for WKORN [much more expensive with much higher MF].
This is why, I have noticed things mentioned like "case-by-case" basis whereby Orlando will be treated differently than Westin St. John's.

Summary: If Marriott is granting my VSN-3* [159000-SO] the equivalent of Executive [7K-DCP] I would consider that [RATIO: 23 :: 1] an awesome upgrade.

 

[CPNY]

We own with both Vistana + Marriott.

For-Comparison
To get to VSN-3* I needed a single 2BR-EY-PLATINUM+ Unit [148100] + 10,900-SO which even if I purchased direct cost me $35-$40K.
This is an average unit in the Vistana-Network with MAUI-OF & Westin St John's being PEAK.

To get to MVC-Executive I needed to purchase 2 x 2BR-PLATINUM Weeks at Marriott Ko'Olina Island-View [4K-DCP each] to get to a little above Executive which could cost me north of $80K.
A 2BR-EY-PLATINUM MAUI-OF which is PEAK in the Marriott-Network could accrue 7K-DCP [Executive] which could cost me north of $60-$70K.

Disparity: The dilemma for Marriott is that Vistana assigns the same #-SO for Lagunamar as they do for WKORN [much more expensive with much higher MF].
This is why, I have noticed things mentioned like "case-by-case" basis whereby Orlando will be treated differently than Westin St. John's.

Summary: If Marriott is granting my VSN-3* the equivalent of Executive I would consider that an awesome upgrade.

It makes sense that they assign different values for vistana units. While I own in SVV, I wouldn’t expect my 2 bedroom to be equal to a WSJ two bedroom with similar SO values. I think Harborside and WSJ will be valued pretty high, same as WLR.

 

[daviator]

I don't believe the source said that unqualified Vistana mandatory ownerships would be eligible to convert to MVC DPs. I believe that what the source said was that they would not be eligible, but also said that ownerships for which someone pays a VSN fee would be eligible to convert - this is somewhat contradictory. There was also some discussion of increased VSN fees that would cover a number of things that may or may not include having the ability to convert to MVC DPs. In the end, I don't have the impression that the source had a great understanding of what was being asked so I'm waiting to see what comes out in writing in an official announcement. I've always preferred to be able to refer to the terms and conditions directly rather than what someone in sales thinks they say and I don't believe that sales actually has them yet.

I think the source corrected himself and said that anybody that was eligible to trade for Bonvoy points would be eligible to convert for DPs. I believe it’s likely that unqualified resale owners of mandatory weeks will be out of luck based on this statement.

 

[divenski]

I believe it’s likely that unqualified resale owners of mandatory weeks will be out of luck based on this statement.

I tend to agree, but Marriott did a hard cutoff back in 2010 too, and then opened up options for enrolling resale weeks at a later date. However, I don't remember how long it took after 2010, and it now takes a fair amount of money to do that.

 

[CPNY]

I tend to agree, but Marriott did a hard cutoff back in 2010 too, and then opened up options for enrolling resale weeks at a later date. However, I don't remember how long it took after 2010, and it now takes a fair amount of money to do that.

Different situation back then. They needed inventory in the DC Exchange. Both systems are mature and there are plenty of developer and enrolled vistana owners to elect to enter the DC exchange. They will want unenrolled to buy DC points in order to be in the system. While the informant said the won’t allow retro sales deals once it’s rolled out, I don’t believe it. They won’t turn down good money from owners. Of course they may slow down the retro deals or increase the amount it would take to retro.

 

[dioxide45]

This statement is confusing. How can you still book vistana if you convert?

Conversion, really called electing Club Points is an annual decision. You don't have to take Club Points ever year if you don't want to. You can use your home resort or StarOptions or take Club Points.

 

[CPNY]

Conversion, really called electing Club Points is an annual decision. You don't have to take Club Points ever year if you don't want to. You can use your home resort or StarOptions or take Club Points.

I think the informant or sales rep whoever was the one who said it, was eluding to the fact that even if you do convert you can still book Vistana properties within the DC Exchange, so there is no loss in converting. But what we don’t know is what the “skim” will look like.

 

[divenski]

I think the informant or sales rep whoever was the one who said it, was eluding to the fact that even if you do convert you can still book Vistana properties within the DC Exchange, so there is no loss in converting. But what we don’t know is what the “skim” will look like.

Have to assume it will be similar to MVC which can be 10-15% for peak season weeks, but it varies. There were numerous posts about the skim when the DC and points were first announced.

 

[bizaro86]

I think the informant or sales rep whoever was the one who said it, was eluding to the fact that even if you do convert you can still book Vistana properties within the DC Exchange, so there is no loss in converting. But what we don’t know is what the “skim” will look like.

Yeah, the no loss in converting since you can still book Vistana through the DC is very salesy.

There will be plenty of examples where someone would have enough staroptions to book something but won't be able to if they convert to DC points.

 

[pchung6]

Currently I can use 81k So from my 2br SVV to book 1br WKORVN. In the new world, do you think we can use 81k pts to book Marriott Maui 1br or MKO 1br or any similar resort? Does MGV 2br currently offer enough pts to book 1br Hawaii? Any Marriott experts can help us to clarify? Thanks.

 

[Mroze]

Different situation back then. They needed inventory in the DC Exchange. Both systems are mature and there are plenty of developer and enrolled vistana owners to elect to enter the DC exchange. They will want unenrolled to buy DC points in order to be in the system. While the informant said the won’t allow retro sales deals once it’s rolled out, I don’t believe it. They won’t turn down good money from owners. Of course they may slow down the retro deals or increase the amount it would take to retro.

You got it.

There is no way Marriott will turn down good money.
The program is being rolled out in anticipation of raking in money by Enrolling Vistana-Owners [Direct-Purchase/Retro or NOT].

 

[byeloe]

Conversion, really called electing Club Points is an annual decision. You don't have to take Club Points ever year if you don't want to. You can use your home resort or StarOptions or take Club Points.

right. But after you elect you can't switch back to VSN for that year. That is why I said it's confusing.

 

[Mowogo]

Yeah, the no loss in converting since you can still book Vistana through the DC is very salesy.

There is huge loss, but understandable when you consider that Vistana significantly undervalued their prime weeks and overvalued other properties for VSN and one of the "features" is correcting that.

 

[CPNY]

There is huge loss, but understandable when you consider that Vistana significantly undervalued their prime weeks and overvalued other properties for VSN and one of the "features" is correcting that.

I highly doubt that prime vistana week owners are going to be converting just to book back into other vistana resorts. They will do well in the DC.

 

[Mowogo]

I highly doubt that prime vistana week owners are going to be converting just to book back into other vistana resorts. They will do well in the DC.

Depends on the conversion rules and what somebody owns. I can see where owners have to convert to access a Marriott for one vacation and then use remaining balance at a Vistana property.

 

[CPNY]

Depends on the conversion rules and what somebody owns. I can see where owners have to convert to access a Marriott for one vacation and then use remaining balance at a Vistana property.

Guess we will see when it all shakes out.

 

[SueDonJ]

Currently I can use 81k So from my 2br SVV to book 1br WKORVN. In the new world, do you think we can use 81k pts to book Marriott Maui 1br or MKO 1br or any similar resort? Does MGV 2br currently offer enough pts to book 1br Hawaii? Any Marriott experts can help us to clarify? Thanks.

Assuming MGV = Marriott Grande Vista, a 2BR Gold exchanges for 2175 and a 2BR Platinum exchanges for 2775 Destination Club Points. The range for 1BR units at each Hawaii resort from lowest-demand date(s) and view to highest-demand date(s) and view are:
- 2,925-5,125 / Waikoloa Ocean Club
- 2,525-6,875 / Maui Ocean Club
- 2,175-4,475 / Kauai Beach Club
- 2,925-6,100 / Ko 'Olina Beach Club
(Neither Kauai Lagoons nor Waiohai have 1BR units.)

This extreme, from an Orlando to a Hawaii full week, is probably one of the best examples to use if you want to make the claim that the Destination Club is useless and a rip-off. If I had Weeks that exchanged for a low number of DC Points then I'd think twice, too, at whether it makes sense to enroll in the DC. But particular to your example, consider that many, many Marriott people successfully exchange Orlando-to-Hawaii in II and continue to do so even after enrolling in the DC, with the DC advantage being that the exchange transaction fee is waived.

* The amount of DC Points required to book intervals varies according to resort/unit size/unit view and dates of stay. If you want to get a good idea of variations or start to familiarize yourself with the DC Points Charts, TUGger @StevenTing hosts them at his website, linked here: https://vacationpointexchange.com/mdc-point-charts/.

 

[dioxide45]

I highly doubt that prime vistana week owners are going to be converting just to book back into other vistana resorts. They will do well in the DC.

It might make sense for someone (think the average owner) who owns in Hawaii and is willing to travel in October. They will get more Club Points from their week than it would cost to go in October through DC. RIght now in VSN, October costs as much as July.

 

[dioxide45]

* The amount of DC Points required to book varies according to resort/unit size/unit view and dates of stay. If you want to get a good idea of variations or start to familiarize yourself with the DC Points Charts, TUGger @StevenTing hosts them at his website, linked here: https://vacationpointexchange.com/mdc-point-charts/.

One can also see how many Club Points each week elect to here; https://historical.vacationpointexchange.com/

 

[CPNY]

It might make sense for someone (think the average owner) who owns in Hawaii and is willing to travel in October. They will get more Club Points from their week than it would cost to go in October through DC. RIght now in VSN, October costs as much as July.

Great point, the Marriott chart is more dynamic in its point values.