CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[pacman777]

This "Benefits At A Glance" chart differentiates benefits according to the status tiers of ownership (Owner, Select, Executive, Presidential, Chairman's Club) in Marriott Vacations Worldwide:
https://www.marriottvacationsworldwide.com/common/cms/mvc/pdfs/owners/Owner-Benefit-Level.pdf
The bottom line shows which Bonvoy status is conferred with Destination Club status.

Not much difference in benefits between Chairman, Presidential and Executive (other than Chairman getting Bonvoy Titanium status which is the top hotel-side status tier). Most of those benefits listed seem pretty useless and just marketing BS.

 

[mindy35]

I probably know the answer to this but I just received the call from the concierge for our upcoming visit which included an invitation to schedule our owner's appt. We had already gone to our owners meeting in December (the first time in years) so that we might learn what to expect from this merger only to be informed of the "possibilities". We left w/o much information and said "never again".

But now she said the new program was unveiled this past Thurs? Should we stay or should we go? Anyone go since Thurs and actually learn anything new worth the 90 mins?

 

[dioxide45]

Not much difference in benefits between Chairman, Presidential and Executive (other than Chairman getting Bonvoy Titanium status which is the top hotel-side status tier). Most of those benefits listed seem pretty useless and just marketing BS.

Presidential and Chairman's Club both get Bonvoy Titanium. The only real benefit between Chairman's and Presidential is the extended banking window and additional Bonvoy conversion no real value in Bonvoy conversion).

 

[SueDonJ]

Not much difference in benefits between Chairman, Presidential and Executive (other than Chairman getting Bonvoy Titanium status which is the top hotel-side status tier). Most of those benefits listed seem pretty useless and just marketing BS.

I think the extended Reservation and Banking Windows and cash/points discounts for last-minute stays have been quite valuable but that's because I use them as often as I can. We intend to make good use of the Preferred Access and Luxury Collection offers as time goes on, too. (Don and I would have already been in this pattern if COVID hadn't hit because his retirement coincided with COVID, but going forward they're a definite possibility.)

Like any other timeshare program, all of the benefits are useless if you don't use them. If you do, the benefits with the Destination Club's upper status tiers aren't just excess worthless baggage good only for enticing new sales.

 

[Mroze]

I don't see where the source said resale owners could upgrade for no fee. I am sure between now and June there will be a big push to get people through the sales floor to "upgrade". Even as they have done up to now, they will tell everyone they need some Flex in order to participate. That doesn't look to be true unless you need to retro some resale weeks.

I hope you are right. As we too are not looking forward to having to spend any more money.

However, I am pretty sure I heard what I heard [some from people I have known for many years and trust].
They were quite clear that ALL Vistana-Owners [including Direct + Retro] would have to buy [not sure how much] to participate in the DC-Program.

This is the last of my posts as I feel like I am debating based on speculation and hearsay.
All I can do now is "wait and see" until the details are formally published.

 

[robertk2012]

[Your combative posts are not welcome in this thread. I strongly recommend that you take a break. DeniseM]

 

[TravelTime]

I don't see where the source said resale owners could upgrade for no fee. I am sure between now and June there will be a big push to get people through the sales floor to "upgrade". Even as they have done up to now, they will tell everyone they need some Flex in order to participate. That doesn't look to be true unless you need to retro some resale weeks.

Here were a few responses that confused me:

does mandatory resale week and voluntary weeks have capability to elect marriott points, or only enrolled weeks are allowed?
NO resales qualify and once live we will not retro weeks, they are out of luck

What is the cost, if any, for Vistana owners to participate in the new program (Either an “enrollment fee” or purchase requirement) and is it different if they are already Marriott points owners (trust or enrolled)?
No cost to enroll in DC points. The VSN club dues will change, more to come, its actually higher but better, no more fees after that

 

[VacationForever]

Here were a few responses that confused me:

does mandatory resale week and voluntary weeks have capability to elect marriott points, or only enrolled weeks are allowed?
NO resales qualify and once live we will not retro weeks, they are out of luck

What is the cost, if any, for Vistana owners to participate in the new program (Either an “enrollment fee” or purchase requirement) and is it different if they are already Marriott points owners (trust or enrolled)?
No cost to enroll in DC points. The VSN club dues will change, more to come, its actually higher but better, no more fees after that

Based on Denise's post, I gather the following:
- Developer purchased or "qualified"/"retro'ed" weeks and Flex points can be enrolled into MVC DC, with no enrollment fee. The club dues will be increased as it includes free II Marriott and Vistana trades. There will also be no banking fee. You can only elect DC points for enrolled ownership.
- Resale mandatory and voluntary weeks and points which have not been "qualified"/"retro'ed", require Flex (current) or MVC (future) points purchase to qualify / retro these resale weeks/flex points in order to make them enrollable.

 

[dioxide45]

In basic terms, based on my understanding from the responses;

• Resale Voluntary (unqualified) - No VSN : Won't be able to participate
• Resale Mandatory (unqualified) - Yes in VSN : Won't be able to participate
• Resale Requalified (you bought a vistana week or flex to make your week as good as direct - Yes in VSN : Yes can participate
• Retail Direct - Yes in VSN : Yes can participate

An even easier way to look at it;
Can you convert your VOI to Bonvoy Points?

• If Yes, then you will be able to convert to Club Points
• If No, then you won't be able to convert to Club Points

Club Points=MVC DC Points

 

[CPNY]

An even easier way to look at it;
Can you convert your VOI to Bonvoy Points?

• If Yes, then you will be able to convert to Club Points
• If No, then you won't be able to convert to Club Points

Club Points=MVC DC Points

I’ve been saying this during all of the speculation since I joined TUG and boy oh boy did people jump all over me.

 

[Red elephant]

After reading everything in this thread I can surmise the following:

Developer-Units are eligible to participate in the DC-Program
Resale-Enrolled [Mandatory or Voluntary] are eligible to participate in the DC-Program

Are Eligible: This does not mean that these owners are automatically enrolled [no cost] within the DC-Program.
I was told at multiple sales presentations [corp + other] that there will be a Purchase [DC-Points] necessary in order to participate in the DC-Program.
Only after eligible Vistana-Owners purchased some minimal DC-Points could one gain TS-Status [Presidents, Chairmans] and/or Bonvoy-Status [Platinum, Titanium].

Anyone else heard this?
[/QUOT

 

[divenski]

In basic terms, based on my understanding from the responses;

• Resale Voluntary (unqualified) - No VSN : Won't be able to participate
• Resale Mandatory (unqualified) - Yes in VSN : Won't be able to participate
• Resale Requalified (you bought a vistana week or flex to make your week as good as direct - Yes in VSN : Yes can participate
• Retail Direct - Yes in VSN : Yes can participate

An even easier way to look at it;
Can you convert your VOI to Bonvoy Points?

• If Yes, then you will be able to convert to Club Points
• If No, then you won't be able to convert to Club Points

Club Points=MVC DC Points

And overall, this plan is about what could have been expected as it will treat Vistana and Marriott resale owners the same. If someone who is even already in the MVC DC buys a week resale, it can't be converted to Bonvoy points or enrolled into the DC without buying points. It's use it, rent it, or deal with II, which is the same situation as Voluntary weeks in Vistana.

One date I don't remember is, when did MVC start allowing resale owners to enroll in the DC by buying points? I'm fairly sure it was at least a couple of years after the DC was started in 2010, and maybe longer due to the long recovery from the recession.

 

[dioxide45]

And overall, this plan is about what could have been expected as it will treat Vistana and Marriott resale owners the same. If someone who is even already in the MVC DC buys a week resale, it can't be converted to Bonvoy points or enrolled into the DC without buying points. It's use it, rent it, or deal with II, which is the same situation as Voluntary weeks in Vistana.

One date I don't remember is, when did MVC start allowing resale owners to enroll in the DC by buying points? I'm fairly sure it was at least a couple of years after the DC was started in 2010, and maybe longer due to the long recovery from the recession.

It will do that as of now, but not sure I would say they are treating them the same. When Marriott rolled out DC, they allowed resale owners to enroll their weeks, albeit for a higher fee. They could allow resale Vistana weeks to do that with the new program, but it doesn't look like they will.

I am not exactly sure when they started the "summer promotion" to allow post June 2010 resale weeks to enroll with a DC point purchase. I tried searching the Marriott forum for the first thread about it, but it isn't an easy find.

 

[divenski]

I was more referring to current Marriott resale owners as they don't have the 2010 modest fee option anymore.

 

[Mroze]

I was more referring to current Marriott resale owners as they don't have the 2010 modest fee option anymore.

Thank you for your excellent analogy and apples-apples comparison.

 

[Red elephant]

Thank you for your excellent analogy and apples-apples comparison.

If the current Marriott resale owners cannot be part of the DC program then it would make sense that the current Vistana resale owners cannot either. Both have to purchase points to partake . I don’t believe the ability to do that will go away. Maybe will be periodic.

 

[Red elephant]

I’ve been saying this during all of the speculation since I joined TUG and boy oh boy did people jump all over me.

I was told long ago by someone in central office that that unenrolled resale owners where not going to be part of the new system unless they enrolled.

 

[daviator]

Not much difference in benefits between Chairman, Presidential and Executive (other than Chairman getting Bonvoy Titanium status which is the top hotel-side status tier). Most of those benefits listed seem pretty useless and just marketing BS.

As pointed out, both Presidential and Chairman get Bonvoy Titanium. Titanium is NOT the top hotel-side status tier, the top Bonvoy status is Ambassador. However, Ambassador has a spending requirement ($10,000, I think, though I haven't looked lately) which those of us who get many of our elite nights from timeshare stays are unlikely to ever meet.

 

[tomandrobin]

Man o man.....I have a lot of reading to do. Been away for too long apparently.

 

[jabberwocky]

As pointed out, both Presidential and Chairman get Bonvoy Titanium. Titanium is NOT the top hotel-side status tier, the top Bonvoy status is Ambassador. However, Ambassador has a spending requirement ($10,000, I think, though I haven't looked lately) which those of us who get many of our elite nights from timeshare stays are unlikely to ever meet.

It’s actually $20k for ambassador. Now if they counted MFs for some TUG members towards tha it would be easy. But they don’t.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

This is my expectation too.

If this is the case [Vistana-Owners need to pay to play] many on this thread will be very disappointed.

IMHO...I believe this is good for Vistana inventory in VSN and bad for MVC owners who want to reserve VSN.

1) Enrolled mandatory Vistana weeks owners don't elect DC until Oct prior to the use year. 12 month Vistana Owner reservations for whale and summer weeks occur prior to the DC deposit deadline. Why deposit in DP when you can change 60 days prior to your reservation in the use year and use/bank SOs if your plans change?

2) If a VSN owner must pay $13,000 - $20,000 plus $1800 every year in MF for just 1000 - 1500 DC there is little value in the DC points if you primarily use your unit. DC points would be orphans. Owners can trade VSN for free and without the MF overhead. For other than a few MVC trades that is too much money for once in a blue moon flexibility. Much more lucrative to rent out the unit. We also own HGVC which we can use for short stay flexibility and to extend stays in many of the same locations. YMMV. I recognize that our situation is different.

After a decade of this type of DP buy-in MVC only has 60% of their units enrolled per an MVC disclosure in 2020. Many of the best Lahaina MOC units are not enrolled because owners use or rent. I see a similar scenario for VSN.

There are situations where DC would make sense i.e. if you own SVN voluntary traders, or also own in MVC and want to integrate your ownerships and want flexibility.

 

[Mowogo]

IMHO...I believe this is good for Vistana inventory in VSN and bad for MVC owners who want to reserve VSN.

1) The vast majority of Vistana weeks will be enrolled vs. DP. Enrolled mandatory Vistana weeks owners don't elect DC until Oct prior to the use year. 12 month Vistana Owner reservations for whale and summer weeks occur prior to the DC deposit deadline. Why deposit in DP when you can change 60 days prior to your reservation in the use year and use/bank SOs if your plans change?

2) If a VSN owner one must pay $13,000 - $20,000 plus $1800 every year in MF for just 1000 - 1500 DC there is little value in the DC points if you primarily use your unit. DC points would be orphans to us. Owners can trade VSN for free and without the MF overhead. For other than a few MVC trades that is too much money for once in a blue moon flexibility. We own in HGVC which we can use for short stay flexibility and to extend stays in many of the same locations. YMMV.

After a decade of this type of DP buy-in MVC only has 60% of their units enrolled per an MVC disclosure in 2020. Many of the best Lahaina MOC units are not enrolled because owners use or rent. I see a similar scenario for VSN.

There are situations where DC would make sense i.e. if you own SVN voluntary traders, or also own in MVC and want to integrate your ownerships and want flexibility.

I'd say it depends on searching ability. If you can search DC before making election then it really is the best of both worlds as you can search for availability and then opt into whichever program gives you what you need. And remember that the DC calendar starts at 13 months which depending on where one wants to trade might be worth it for some family vacations. Given that there is relatively little premium inventory in the flex trusts, I could definitely see owners getting value out of Flex opting for DC, especially if any bookings are in mid to lower demand seasons

 

[CPNY]

I'd say it depends on searching ability. If you can search DC before making election then it really is the best of both worlds as you can search for availability and then opt into whichever program gives you what you need. And remember that the DC calendar starts at 13 months which depending on where one wants to trade might be worth it for some family vacations. Given that there is relatively little premium inventory in the flex trusts, I could definitely see owners getting value out of Flex opting for DC, especially if any bookings are in mid to lower demand seasons

Regarding 13-12 months in reservations, people just don’t want to book so far in advance anymore. The TS industry needs to adapt.

 

[Mowogo]

Regarding 13-12 months in reservations, people just don’t want to book so far in advance anymore. The TS industry needs to adapt.

This is a problem at the popular hotels that people like to redeem their hotel awards for (If you've ever looked at places like Grand Wailea or the Andaz Maui you understand). The only way to solve high demand for timeshare properties in a given location is to build more. The whole idea behind trusts is to simplify that exchange for the end user by essentially expanding the home resort priority to different resorts. And for those families that plan big holiday vacations the value you can get makes the price of booking early more palatable.

 

[Eric B]

Regarding 13-12 months in reservations, people just don’t want to book so far in advance anymore. The TS industry needs to adapt.

Sounds like another test to see if I'm a robot... I have non-fixed week reservations booked through November 2023 for the ones I can make already and have just a few ones to book between now and then to fill in once those reservation windows open. (It doesn't really seem fair that corporations are people, too, but I'm not!)