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CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

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VacationForever

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I don't think it's purely an "agree to disagree". I'm not sure your assumptions are necessarily correct. Based on what we've heard, any VSN week currently eligible for VSN status levels will automatically be eligible for "Abound" (i.e. those weeks purchased direct or otherwise "requalified"). If that's the case, no need to continue VSN specific status levels. It doesn't even require someone to actually participate in (or agree to participate in) "Abound" as they could just as easily indicate your status is based on Abound "eligible" point levels (whether actually participating or not). Further, while VSN is written into some of the HOA docs, the VSN elite levels are not. Why continue offering a separate/distinct "VSN elite" program if a) you're given all current elites the option to continue to receive their existing (or new) benefits if they participate in Abound and b) there is nothing obligating you to continue to administer it?
It has to do with resale mandatory ownership. The elephant in the room is whether they are eligible for Abound or not. Resale mandatory ownership does not currently qualify for elite status. If they are not eligible for Abound, VSN booking system needs to continue to run in parallel. Mandatory weeks will continue to use VSN, as it written into the CC&R documents. There is also no ROFR on WKV so they will continue to be available outside of Abound framework.
 

kozykritter

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I don't think it's purely an "agree to disagree". I'm not sure your assumptions are necessarily correct. Based on what we've heard, any VSN week currently eligible for VSN status levels will automatically be eligible for "Abound" (i.e. those weeks purchased direct or otherwise "requalified"). If that's the case, no need to continue VSN specific status levels. It doesn't even require someone to actually participate in (or agree to participate in) "Abound" as they could just as easily indicate your status is based on Abound "eligible" point levels (whether actually participating or not). Further, while VSN is written into some of the HOA docs, the VSN elite levels are not. Why continue offering a separate/distinct "VSN elite" program if a) you're given all current elites the option to continue to receive their existing (or new) benefits if they participate in Abound and b) there is nothing obligating you to continue to administer it?
You are entitled to see it differently. Vistana will continue to function as an independent system with an integration option with Abound for those that qualify. That means it will continue to use recognition levels within Vistana to apply Vistana-specific benefits to Vistana ownerships and the resulting transactions...extended banking deadlines, converting to Bonvoy every year, waitlists, etc. We've heard along the way that they have plans to make those Vistana levels match the name and number of Marriott recognition levels (presumably for ease of administration and when accessing Abound) but the criteria for hitting each level will be Vistana-specific. It has to be. Could you imagine as Dioxide suggested if Marriott came in and valued every Vistana ownership in MVC points (Abound eligible or not) based upon its own judgment of what is worth in Marriott's eyes and then set Vistana recognition levels based upon that? There would be buildings burnt to the ground! Imagine two owners each have a 2 Bed worth 148,100 StarOptions and Marriott came into Vistana and assigned one 8K point moving them up to elite and another 4K points. A revolution would begin, staring with pitchforks and torches. It makes sense for Marriott to do that for ownerships that are Abound eligible only for the purpose of knowing what they would be worth if they elected to participate in that program. But otherwise I can't see Vistana's recognition level being based upon anything but StarOptions at this juncture...perhaps down the line as more integration occurs that might change.
 
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ErnieD

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So many ways to see this. 2 months ago the Vistana HQ person who was trying to sell us Westin Flex quoted that the point categories would be the current MVC and that Westin owners would be “grandfathered” into MVC. Whatever that meant.


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dioxide45

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Not every ownership in the VSN will be eligible to enroll in Abound so I would think they will have to set some type of StarOption-based criteria for Select level within Vistana once those recognition levels are applied internally. They aren't going to exclude those ownerships entirely.
But what VSN ownerships won't be eligible to participate in Abound? If it is mandatory resales, those aren't eligible for Vistana * Elite levels anyway. Voluntary resales aren't eligible either.
 

sharr7

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Re: elite levels - I don't think anyone can say for sure but based on speculation to this point it seems that they are planning one just one combined elite system. No one will lose/decrease status level because they will "map" your Vistana status to the Abound status. It sounds like they will then even consider if your total eligible "Abound points" hit a higher elite level and award you that level.

I think there very well may be owners awarded elite status who didn't have enough SO (e.g. 148k owners) and it will be based on Marriott's valuation. The whole Abound system/conversion will be based on Marriott's valuations. Some at the same SO level will be awarded more Abound points for more desirable weeks. But no one will drop status that had it previously.

It also seems this lends further support to the fact that mandatory resale will not be eligible for Abound conversion or elite levels in either system.
 

Eric B

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It also seems this lends further support to the fact that mandatory resale will not be eligible for Abound conversion or elite levels in either system.

Any idea if pre-2010 resale Marriott weeks that were enrolled for a decent fee count towards status there? I won't lose any sleep over it if my mandatory Vistana resales can't be enrolled in Abound, but might go for it for a reasonable fee and the whole leaving them out entirely without a similar treatment to existing Marriott resales just seems like it could be a very self-serving statement from sales trying to make a commission.
 

dioxide45

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Any idea if pre-2010 resale Marriott weeks that were enrolled for a decent fee count towards status there? I won't lose any sleep over it if my mandatory Vistana resales can't be enrolled in Abound, but might go for it for a reasonable fee and the whole leaving them out entirely without a similar treatment to existing Marriott resales just seems like it could be a very self-serving statement from sales trying to make a commission.
Points allocated to pre-2010 Marriott resale weeks count toward MVC owner benefit levels. Just because they allowed Marriott resales to play in DC, it doesn't mean they will allow non qualified Vistana weeks to enroll in Abound.
 

Eric B

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Points allocated to pre-2010 Marriott resale weeks count toward MVC owner benefit levels. Just because they allowed Marriott resales to play in DC, it doesn't mean they will allow non qualified Vistana weeks to enroll in Abound.

Roger that - we'll see how things shake out when they get around to releasing the details. I just don't think that inclusion or exclusion in MVC owner benefit levels says much of anything as a basis for concluding how they will really treat mandatory resale weeks.
 

ocdb8r

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You are entitled to see it differently. Vistana will continue to function as an independent system with an integration option with Abound for those that qualify. That means it will continue to use recognition levels within Vistana to apply Vistana-specific benefits to Vistana ownerships and the resulting transactions...extended banking deadlines, converting to Bonvoy every year, waitlists, etc. We've heard along the way that they have plans to make those Vistana levels match the name and number of Marriott recognition levels (presumably for ease of administration and when accessing Abound) but the criteria for hitting each level will be Vistana-specific. It has to be. Could you imagine as Dioxide suggested if Marriott came in and valued every Vistana ownership in MVC points (Abound eligible or not) based upon its own judgment of what is worth in Marriott's eyes and then set Vistana recognition levels based upon that? There would be buildings burnt to the ground! Imagine two owners each have a 2 Bed worth 148,100 StarOptions and Marriott came into Vistana and assigned one 8K point moving them up to elite and another 4K points. A revolution would begin, staring with pitchforks and torches. It makes sense for Marriott to do that for ownerships that are Abound eligible only for the purpose of knowing what they would be worth if they elected to participate in that program. But otherwise I can't see Vistana's recognition level being based upon anything but StarOptions at this juncture...perhaps down the line as more integration occurs that might change.
So what you believe will happen is they're going to rename the elite levels to complete match "Abound" but continue to maintain a completely separate set of criteria for what constitutes elite in Vistana? I think not. Why would Marriott maintain this level of complication for both themselves and for consumers to navigate? Again, they are not legally required to maintain the Vistana Elite System at all...it's spelled out clearly that it and all benefits are completely at the discretion of Vistana. I think it's much more likely that "Vistana" levels and their computations will go away. Current members who's level might go down as a result of the "Abound" valuations will be "grandfathered" in to their existing level, but there will be no moving up unless you meet the "Abound" required calculations (it is possible they won't even be selling Vistana weeks or points at all moving forward....so why maintain Vistana elite staroptions requirements?).

It has to do with resale mandatory ownership. The elephant in the room is whether they are eligible for Abound or not. Resale mandatory ownership does not currently qualify for elite status. If they are not eligible for Abound, VSN booking system needs to continue to run in parallel. Mandatory weeks will continue to use VSN, as it written into the CC&R documents. There is also no ROFR on WKV so they will continue to be available outside of Abound framework.
No disagreement that for the time being it seems VSN will continue to operate as it's written into the HOA documents of HOA mandatory resorts. I was only speaking of VSN Elite Levels (which are not written into the HOA docs). However, there is very little written as to what "VSN" has to look like. What is stopping Marriott from modifying VSN so it looks identical to Abound? A rose by any other name is still a rose...

In the beginning there is benefit to Marriott maintaining the two systems as somehow "distinct" as they can use it as a sales/upgrade technique. However, over time, I can see the balance tipping to the point where they eventually move all on to what is effectively a platform identical to "Abound".
 

Eric B

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What is stopping Marriott from modifying VSN so it looks identical to Abound?

The one thing I can think of is the existence of the mandatory VSN resale ownerships without ROFR. I think it would be fabulous for the resale value of those if they subsumed VSN into Abound. I'm not sure whether it would be all that beneficial to me due to the potential for devaluation of those weeks in the system, though as many have noted the rental value of some of them would kind of make Abound unnecessary.
 

dioxide45

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The one thing I can think of is the existence of the mandatory VSN resale ownerships without ROFR. I think it would be fabulous for the resale value of those if they subsumed VSN into Abound. I'm not sure whether it would be all that beneficial to me due to the potential for devaluation of those weeks in the system, though as many have noted the rental value of some of them would kind of make Abound unnecessary.
I think also it is simply not wanting to take something away that already exists for owners. Sure, they may be able to legally do it, but they sold on that product for 25 years. Changing it now could produce challenges. In general when timeshare systems merge you don't see them take away programs that existed before. SBP owners can still reserve home resort 24 months in advance. Marriott owners can still reserve split weeks and Florida Club. Hilton is simply adding in a layer with HGV Max instead of a full integration. They leave old legacy systems in place for a reason, both to keep owners happy and also use it to sell the shiny new system...
 

Jayco29D

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Can anybody provide some advise.

I received the below email about a virtual meeting last week. I chose Tuesday @ 4:30pm. I haven't heard back from them in reference to this meeting. I suspect as other zoom meeting I will need a zoom meeting invitation, which I haven't received (assuming it's zoom). I'm also taking it for granted having received the email on Wed 07/06 that the meeting I chose is for today.

Has anybody attended these virtual meeting in the past and how did they communicate the invitation.

Thanks

Bill Seward

View attachment 59979

In this email, he says the corporate team is running a special campaign based on where/how they are deeded. I wonder if they will target owners of high value weeks like Maui to participate in the special promotion vs other owners such as Orlando will not be eligible for the special promotion?
 

ndang3

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Re: elite levels - I don't think anyone can say for sure but based on speculation to this point it seems that they are planning one just one combined elite system. No one will lose/decrease status level because they will "map" your Vistana status to the Abound status. It sounds like they will then even consider if your total eligible "Abound points" hit a higher elite level and award you that level.

I think there very well may be owners awarded elite status who didn't have enough SO (e.g. 148k owners) and it will be based on Marriott's valuation. The whole Abound system/conversion will be based on Marriott's valuations. Some at the same SO level will be awarded more Abound points for more desirable weeks. But no one will drop status that had it previously.

It also seems this lends further support to the fact that mandatory resale will not be eligible for Abound conversion or elite levels in either system.
We are legacy VSN and considering buying more VSN Westin flex options before the Abound program launches which I have been told is when flex will no longer be sold. We are still VSN 3 star elite not 4 star with this purchase but it will get us to above 10,000 Marriott vacation club points based on a conversion chart I haven’t even seen (just told verbally). Currently Presidential tier starts at or more than 10,000 club points and that is the reason we want to move forward, is to get to Presidential. My question is, does anyone know if the VSN tiers map directly to MVC tiers so 3>Executive, 4>Presidential regardless of the destination club points conversion? Or can one still be 3 star elite and still be Presidential if the DCP conversion is over 10,000.
 

dioxide45

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We are legacy VSN and considering buying more VSN Westin flex options before the Abound program launches which I have been told is when flex will no longer be sold. We are still VSN 3 star elite not 4 star with this purchase but it will get us to above 10,000 Marriott vacation club points based on a conversion chart I haven’t even seen (just told verbally). Currently Presidential tier starts at or more than 10,000 club points and that is the reason we want to move forward, is to get to Presidential. My question is, does anyone know if the VSN tiers map directly to MVC tiers so 3>Executive, 4>Presidential regardless of the destination club points conversion? Or can one still be 3 star elite and still be Presidential if the DCP conversion is over 10,000.
That is a good question. If this is what the sales reps are telling you, I would have them provide guaranty of Presidential in the contract. How many Abound points will you be short of 10,000 based on what you were told?
 

ndang3

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That is a good question. If this is what the sales reps are telling you, I would have them provide guaranty of Presidential in the contract. How many Abound points will you be short of 10,000 based on what you were told?
~1500
 

dioxide45

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How many Westin Flex do they want to sell you to get you there and what is the buy in cost? You could possibly buy 1,500 resale DC/Abound points after full integration for about $10K all in.
 

ndang3

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Anything over 44,000 Staroptions which will get us a minimum of 1525 DC points. $18.5k inclusive of incentives and other discounts and closing costs. 2.5x SO purchased as bonus SO’s. Better to buy into the same legacy program is my opinion.
 

kozykritter

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We are legacy VSN and considering buying more VSN Westin flex options before the Abound program launches which I have been told is when flex will no longer be sold. We are still VSN 3 star elite not 4 star with this purchase but it will get us to above 10,000 Marriott vacation club points based on a conversion chart I haven’t even seen (just told verbally). Currently Presidential tier starts at or more than 10,000 club points and that is the reason we want to move forward, is to get to Presidential. My question is, does anyone know if the VSN tiers map directly to MVC tiers so 3>Executive, 4>Presidential regardless of the destination club points conversion? Or can one still be 3 star elite and still be Presidential if the DCP conversion is over 10,000.
Nobody knows anything for sure but it's pretty much been said from the beginning that 3* will map to Executive in MVC. What really hasn't been talked about is qualifying for levels based upon the MVC point value of your qualified Vistana ownership. It's possible if you get to the equivalent of 10K that you would get Presidential and it's also possible that they might raise the limit without grandfathering in Vistana converters. We just won't know until it actually launches so maybe as dioxide suggested try to get Presidential written into your purchase contract.

We also don't know for sure that they would let you combine your Vistana-based MVC point value with any MVC points you own/purchased to reach a certain recognition level. There's been conflicting statements given in various sales presentations reported here.
 

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Will have to get the charts, but we were given the MVC vs Staroptions and they do not map over exactly. Basically, it showed that current 4 star elites had enough for Chairman (hence the earlier post saying the hq person saying Vistana would be grandfathering in elites to MVC).


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ndang3

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Will have to get the charts, but we were given the MVC vs Staroptions and they do not map over exactly. Basically, it showed that current 4 star elites had enough for Chairman (hence the earlier post saying the hq person saying Vistana would be grandfathering in elites to MVC).


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Can you share the chart?
 

jabberwocky

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Can you share the chart?
I think it’s actually been posted in this thread somewhere. Which page I don’t know! :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

jabberwocky

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106 achieved! Thank you Marriott for dragging this hard launch out longer...and longer...and longer...
I guess I’ll be buying people drinks next time we’re at the same resort. :p
 

remowidget

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Can you share the chart?
I'm not sure if this is the chart that is being referred, but it gives the levels based upon DC points.
 

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TSKing

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Does anyone know specifically the exchange “rate” for a Sheraton Flex week worth 81,000 Star Options. By “exchange rate” i mean how many MVC Destination Points is it worth? I’ve had a recent Presentation and she gave me a lump sum value of all I had, but stupidly I didn’t ask for a breakdown!
 

VacationForever

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Does anyone know specifically the exchange “rate” for a Sheraton Flex week worth 81,000 Star Options. By “exchange rate” i mean how many MVC Destination Points is it worth? I’ve had a recent Presentation and she gave me a lump sum value of all I had, but stupidly I didn’t ask for a breakdown!

34.21 Sheraton Flex to 1 DC point as reported in the link.
 
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